(Topic ID: 254228)

Are Clay's Guides for Sale Anywhere?


By Gryszzz

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 49 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by pinster68
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

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    #1 7 months ago

    Obviously the easiest thing to do would be send Clay a message. I did, 3 days ago.
    I understand he's a very busy guy, and probably doesn't have time to respond to every jagweed that bothers him.
    No I don't want to copy or steal them.
    I am just wondering if they are, legitimately, to be found, for sale. With Clay getting his cut and all credit. Was hoping to buy them from the man himself but I'm guessing I missed that boat a long time ago. Thanks in advance.

    #2 7 months ago

    I don’t think they will ever be offered for sale, and I doubt he will respond to you.

    When Clay pulled them a few years ago, I seem to remember that he took some effort to scrub all traces of them from the internet. He seemed determined to put a halt to all distribution and rejected all pleas to license or sell them. It really got a bit weird in the end, almost as if he was determined to disown them for some reason.

    They are out there of course, but getting them ethically is probably impossible at this point.

    #3 7 months ago

    Too bad, like gryzzzz i would love a set but seems ive missed the boat as well.

    #4 7 months ago

    I got kind a lucky with them. Way back in the day when they were freely posted on the internet I didn't have a PC in my work shop. So had to print out everything. Still have my stack of pages. I did make a post on Facebook almost exactly like yours. Wanted to purchase a copy of them.

    11
    #5 7 months ago

    This is so very sad. Clays guides were a huge help to me years ago. He tried to share his massive knowlege and others printed it and sold it for a profit leaving Clay in the dust. Clay deserves HUGE kudos and is a true unsung hero of pinball. I totally respect Clays views but his material should have been copywrighted so Clay would have received proper credit for his work. If that was done any profits would have gone to Clay or any charity of his choosing. Total respect to Clay for trying to share his amazing knowlege and doing the right thing. Sad that world we live in if full of sharks who will exploit a true visonary for short term profit. If nothing else I hope someday Clay will see that I posted "Thank you Clay!!! I appreciate your work and what you did for pinball"!!!

    #7 7 months ago

    If you make a donation of like $20 or so to the website, you’ll get access to the Pinball ninja webzine. It hasn’t really been updated in a while (probably because there’s only so many videos he can do on a WPC reset problem repair), but it’s super comprehensive and visual. Definitely worth it if all else fails.

    #8 7 months ago

    Edit

    11
    #9 7 months ago

    Some of his guides are still available online right at his own website for free and they are updated too.

    EM Electromechanical Repair Guide:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

    Gottlieb System 1 Repair Guide:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm

    Gottlieb System 3 Repair Guide:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/sys3/index.htm

    Bally 6803 system Repair Guide:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/6803/index.htm

    GamePlan Repair Guide:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/gp/index.htm

    Zaccaria Repair Guide:

    http://www.pinrepair.com/zac/index.htm

    #10 7 months ago

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    I just wish I could put money in Clay's hands for doing these. We all owe him BIG time.

    #11 7 months ago

    Funny thing is, I believe I've run into most if this stuff you guys are posting. Yet I had NO idea it was Clay's genius behind it.
    Give credit where credit is due, right?

    #12 7 months ago

    And don't forget PinWiki is also a great source for repair info:

    http://www.pinwiki.com//wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    I just wish I could put money in Clay's hands for doing these. We all owe him BIG time.

    Agreed. Bought my first pin back in 2000. It was a dead Gorgar. Had no clue how to repair any part of it. Clays Guides were my bible. Owe a big thanks to them.

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    We all owe him BIG time.

    He's the sole reason I'm involved in the hobby at all. Grabbed a non-working EM years ago, and had zero interest in it until I found his guides. 15 years, and 25 games later, I'm doing what I love to do because of his contributions.

    #15 7 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballmike217:

    This is so very sad. Clays guides were a huge help to me years ago. He tried to share his massive knowlege and others printed it and sold it for a profit leaving Clay in the dust. Clay deserves HUGE kudos and is a true unsung hero of pinball. I totally respect Clays views but his material should have been copywrighted so Clay would have received proper credit for his work. If that was done any profits would have gone to Clay or any charity of his choosing. Total respect to Clay for trying to share his amazing knowlege and doing the right thing. Sad that world we live in if full of sharks who will exploit a true visonary for short term profit. If nothing else I hope someday Clay will see that I posted "Thank you Clay!!! I appreciate your work and what you did for pinball"!!!

    I don't remember it this way?!?!

    I thought than when he started charging people for the guides and access to them that things started to get hazy.

    I always thought it was other ppl coming after Clay, claiming that he had taken information from them, put it into his guides? The "owners" of the original information forced Clay to pull them off the web when he had no other choice. Not Clay's fault but the guys who pressured him into wanting a slice of the $$$.

    #16 7 months ago

    Clays system80 guides are the only reason I was able to own a pin when I first got in the hobby.

    16
    #17 7 months ago

    He's usually good aboot answering emails. Not pm's on pinside. Cfh@provide.net
    He was in fine form last night as we were finishing up work on the latest addition to the VFW lineup, Capt. Card, during our Haloween party.

    IMG_93051 (resized).jpg
    #18 7 months ago

    any link to the halloween party and time? I have a friend who's 10 year old son loves pinball and would enjoy going

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    He's usually good aboot answering emails. Not pm's on pinside. Cfh@provide.net
    He was in fine form last night as we were finishing up work on the latest addition to the VFW lineup, Capt. Card, during our Haloween party.[quoted image]

    That's a great picture!

    #20 7 months ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    I just wish I could put money in Clay's hands for doing these. We all owe him BIG time.

    I feel for you. I too know what it's like to feel bad.

    Since we are friends I will help you out. Send me some crispy $100s and if I ever see Clay I'll make sure he knows how much you appreciate him.

    #21 7 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Some of his guides are still available online right at his own website for free and they are updated too.
    EM Electromechanical Repair Guide:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
    Gottlieb System 1 Repair Guide:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm
    Gottlieb System 3 Repair Guide:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/sys3/index.htm
    Bally 6803 system Repair Guide:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/6803/index.htm
    GamePlan Repair Guide:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/gp/index.htm
    Zaccaria Repair Guide:
    http://www.pinrepair.com/zac/index.htm

    What are the other guides besides these that he has kept available?

    I saw System 80 mentioned. Were there others?

    #22 7 months ago

    If you message him, you can donate to get access to the pinballninja.com great site. He is done updating, totally worth donating to anyway.

    He updates here https://m.facebook.com/pinrepair/

    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    , you can donate to get access to the pinballninja.com great site.

    Totally forgot about donating years ago. Tried to log on, had to rest my password because I forgot it. But wow. There’s a ton of information there.

    #24 7 months ago

    I just send money every couple years. Actually this reminds me it has been a while.

    http://www.pinrepair.com/donate/

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    I feel for you. I too know what it's like to feel bad.
    Since we are friends I will help you out. Send me some crispy $100s and if I ever see Clay I'll make sure he knows how much you appreciate him.

    LOL.

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    What are the other guides besides these that he has kept available?
    I saw System 80 mentioned. Were there others?

    Only the ones I listed are currently available. His Gottlieb system 80 guide has been unavailable for years. Same with the Data East/Sega and Atari guides.

    #27 7 months ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    I got kind a lucky with them. Way back in the day when they were freely posted on the internet I didn't have a PC in my work shop. So had to print out everything. Still have my stack of pages. I did make a post on Facebook almost exactly like yours. Wanted to purchase a copy of them.

    I did the same: printed them all out and took them to Kinko's and had them bound. I still have them and refer to them occasionally.

    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    Thanks for the replies guys.
    I just wish I could put money in Clay's hands for doing these. We all owe him BIG time.

    Yeah if I ever made it rich I'd want to hire Clay for a year or two to take his original guides and turn them into the most robust online resource.
    But I'm not going to be rich, so I'll just say: thanks so much Clay.

    #29 7 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Only the ones I listed are currently available. His Gottlieb system 80 guide has been unavailable for years. Same with the Data East/Sega and Atari guides.

    Atari seems impossible to find.

    #30 7 months ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Atari seems impossible to find.

    As I recall, his Atari guide was not complete, but it sure helped. I printed out what he did have back in the day.

    #31 7 months ago
    Quoted from Gryszzz:

    Funny thing is, I believe I've run into most if this stuff you guys are posting. Yet I had NO idea it was Clay's genius behind it.
    Give credit where credit is due, right?

    From what I heard, that was actually the problem, maybe he wasn't due all the credit...

    Quoted from jardine:

    I thought than when he started charging people for the guides and access to them that things started to get hazy.
    I always thought it was other ppl coming after Clay, claiming that he had taken information from them, put it into his guides? The "owners" of the original information forced Clay to pull them off the web when he had no other choice.

    This is also how I remember it.

    They're still floating around, at least they were when I looked for them in 2017.

    #32 7 months ago
    Quoted from 3pinballs:

    any link to the halloween party and time? I have a friend who's 10 year old son loves pinball and would enjoy going

    No link. Club members email. No kids allowed. Under 21 guests need to wait for the show in May of 2020.

    18
    #33 7 months ago

    I would invite you to surf on over to www.pinwiki.com
    We've been working on it for several years.
    Some chapters aren't yet "normalized" like the WPC, System 1, and System 80 chapters have been.
    Let me know what you think. We are happy to hear feedback.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #34 7 months ago

    If you are a good sleuth. You can use tools like way back and find them. Then Save and print to a pdf.

    #35 7 months ago

    The story I heard was that Clay gave the rights to sell DVD copies of his repair guides to the PPM, with proceeds going to the museum, but then some people got upset about the guides getting sold for any money even for good cause, so Clay and PPM pulled the guides. Some of the guide's info may have borrowed/referenced from other sources, but the guides that Clay wrote 100% are still on his pinrepair website.

    #36 7 months ago
    Quoted from cshelden:

    If you are a good sleuth. You can use tools like way back and find them. Then Save and print to a pdf.

    Ya, I figure with the waybackmachine you might be able to find some stuff. I’ve had luck in the past finding info on local companies that have long since shut down.

    #37 7 months ago

    Yup, play around at wayback machine and you’ll be surprised what’s still saved from years ago. I didn’t go to far into it, but there’s a decent amount of information available.

    380000 captures from 2001 to 2017. You should find what you need......the internet never forgets.

    750C0CD7-8DE2-4943-AB69-A1218D37F44E (resized).png
    #38 7 months ago

    Thanks for all the pm's guys, much appreciated. I have them waiting, just not sure I'll actually print them off. I don't want Clay pissed off at me since that VFW show is really amazing and I'd like to keep attending.

    #39 7 months ago

    One reason Clay did not want/like people printing out his guides,
    was he did not want bad info or outdated info circulating
    whenever he updated or corrected his guides.

    #40 7 months ago
    Quoted from pinwiztom:

    One reason Clay did not want/like people printing out his guides,
    was he did not want bad info or outdated info circulating
    whenever he updated or corrected his guides.

    When I'm working on a machine or a circuit board, I NEED printed information in front of me. I can't be going over back and forth to a computer screen. That's why I printed the guides out and had them bound. Plus I can write on them or make notations too.

    I think you meant he didn't like people printing them out and SELLING them.

    #41 7 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    When I'm working on a machine or a circuit board, I NEED printed information in front of me. I can't be going over back and forth to a computer screen. That's why I printed the guides out and had them bound. Plus I can write on them or make notations too.
    I think you meant he didn't like people printing them out and SELLING them.

    That is my recollection as well. I was told a certain parts seller was printing Clays guides and selling them and that was why the guides were pulled. I do not personally know Clay so my information (like most) is second hand. At this point the Bally and WPC guides don't need updating. Hopefully someday they can be printed and sold for the benefit of the next generation of pinball enthusiasts.

    #42 7 months ago

    But generally you don’t need an entire guide when you are working on something. I’d rather have them all available sitting there digitally on a hard drive taking up no space, then print a few needed pages on demand for a project. That way you can also scribble notes on them as you go along, then toss them when that job is done.

    #43 7 months ago
    Quoted from pinwiztom:

    One reason Clay did not want/like people printing out his guides,
    was he did not want bad info or outdated info circulating
    whenever he updated or corrected his guides.

    I recall RGP days when certain dbags would criticize Clay about something or other. No doubt putting all that effort into a guide only to have some anonymous douche make a stink had its effect.

    #44 7 months ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    only to have some anonymous douche make a stink had its effect.

    Welcome to the internet. Anonymous douche’s are everywhere these days. That’s not a good excuse IMHO. You need to persevere despite the nay-sayers in order to survive online.

    #45 7 months ago

    I don't think, it would be an issue to print for personal use and notes as in the context above. I think the reference to printing would be in the form to mass distribute whether free or otherwise.

    #46 7 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Welcome to the internet. Anonymous douche’s are everywhere these days. That’s not a good excuse IMHO. You need to persevere despite the nay-sayers in order to survive online.

    This was back in the day when RGP was unregulated and Pinside was in super-nanny mode. Today Pinside is far more liberal, but there's still more integrity due to a strong user base of good people who are less likely to let d-bags thrive.

    #47 7 months ago

    Awesome! I use those guides regularly! Just sent him a donation as well!

    #48 7 months ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    This was back in the day when RGP was unregulated and Pinside was in super-nanny mode. Today Pinside is far more liberal, but there's still more integrity due to a strong user base of good people who are less likely to let d-bags thrive.

    Wonder if Frank Furter is on Pinside?

    #49 7 months ago
    Quoted from poppapin:

    Wonder if Frank Furter is on Pinside?

    I'm thinking yes, but who knows.

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