(Topic ID: 220162)

Are Bally/Williams A Titles overpriced?


By Tbachli

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 68 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by Blitzburgh99
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 68 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 months ago

With a flood of new machines in the $7-8K range, are the top B/W keeping pace? Some say remakes are killing the market, but IMHO, they don't play the same. Not that they're bad, just different and not the same. Is a clone the same as the real thing? Disclaimer, this is my ad:

Archived after 226 days
732 views
Sold (amount unknown)
Contributed to Pinside
Machine - For Sale
Fully shopped/refurbished “Great Indy in excellent condition. Cabinet has slight fading but looks great. Full LEDs, newly rebuilt flippers with new flipper coils. Game plays very well, an excellent exampl...”
2018-05-27
Melissa, TX
7,100 (OBO)

#2 9 months ago

Does a bear shit in the woods?

#3 9 months ago

Pretty much everything is overpriced. Hoping deeproot will kill it and cool things off with a 4k nib pin. If not the economy is probably about to tank so that should help.

#4 9 months ago

Yes they are overpriced. Now sell me your IJ for $800 to help adjust the market back to more normal pricing. Thanks.

#5 9 months ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Yes they are overpriced. Now sell me your IJ for $800 to help adjust the market back to more normal pricing. Thanks.

Lol

#6 9 months ago

No. They aren’t overpriced. The market is the market. If they’re selling for x amount, they’re worth x amount. A lot of folks may not like it, but that’s the reality.

24
#7 9 months ago

When I'm selling - no. When I'm buying - yes.

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

No. They aren’t overpriced. The market is the market. If they’re selling for x amount, they’re worth x amount. A lot of folks may not like it, but that’s the reality.

Agreed. Supply and demand sets the price, so no, games aren't overpriced.

#9 9 months ago

Relative to the modern offerings... I'd say yes.

#11 9 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

No. They aren’t overpriced. The market is the market. If they’re selling for x amount, they’re worth x amount. A lot of folks may not like it, but that’s the reality.

By that logic, pretty much nothing is overpriced. I disagree with that. Just because some people are willing to pay x doesn't mean it's worth it and not overpriced.

IMO B/W dmds have gotten to be way overpriced lately. I have only been buying new and 80s for a while now.

#12 9 months ago

I'd say many of them are overpriced, of course its a personal opinion, as others have said, if people are willing to pay it that says a lot.

But for what you're able to get, I think the reality is that there is much better value in many of the newer sterns or in some of the early solid states.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from scylla:

When I'm selling - no. When I'm buying - yes.

Love your honesty man..... ain't it the truth!

#14 9 months ago

In secondary markets, things are worth only what people are willing to pay for them.

#15 9 months ago

This is a very opinionated subject that has been debated here since day 1. (actually I wasn't here on day 1 so what do I know) You are going to hear varying angles on this and they are all true to each person's point of view. In this country we would like to think that the market determines the price. And it does to a point... There are those out there that really want that Grail Pin and will pay handsomely for it when their financial time is right. IMHO as long as the financial health of this country continues to improve, the price will continue to go up.

#16 9 months ago

No, imo many b/w are underpriced.

#17 9 months ago

No such thing. An individual game can certainly be price under or over market value... But as a whole, there is no such thing as "the entire market" being over/under priced. The entire market is as it stands and does not need to prove itself against any other entity. Does not matter what the product is that's being sold.

Now, "undervalued" or "overvalued" by the average pinball enthusiast, then you could be on to something.

#18 9 months ago

Since the market determines the price, pins are not overpriced.

If you are looking for logic in the pricing, there is none in a collector market. Pricing is based on emotion and fun. DM and TZ should logically be priced the same as they are both wide body games from the 1990's with the same electronics, cabinet, and very similar parts (very similar coils, wiring, mechanisms, ramps, etc). But TZ is judged by collectors as more fun and nostalgic, so it is priced 3 or 4 times more than DM.

#19 9 months ago

No.

There, glad we settled that. Now, who wants to buy my Beanie Babies?

#20 9 months ago

First, I think all the machines are overpriced.

Until recently, there weren't many new machines that I thought were as good as many of the B/W games in almost every category (theme implementation, art, humor, sound content and toys). Even B/C titles like Judge Dredd, Shadow, Congo, Demolition Man, etc..

A few areas where I think the newer games have exceeded the B/W titles are in rule complexity, lighting effects, sound quality and display.

So to me, if a full featured premium at 6.5k is priced right, then many of the B/W titles are underpriced. Until Iron Maiden, the Pros looked woefully barren compared to a B/W you could get for a lower price.

I find it ironic that many people are gravitating to the games with simple rules and layout, challenging gameplay and shorter ball times like TNA, yet dismiss the older B/W games as not being deep enough.

People want new, but like a house that's in good condition after 50 years, I'm more confident in the robustness and repair-ability of the older machines in a home environment than I am the newer ones.

Edit: You can tell from my collection I'm somewhat biased.

#21 9 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

By that logic, pretty much nothing is overpriced. I disagree with that. Just because some people are willing to pay x doesn't mean it's worth it and not overpriced.
IMO B/W dmds have gotten to be way overpriced lately. I have only been buying new and 80s for a while now.

If people are paying, then it’s not over priced. When people stop paying, then it’s over priced. BW prices may have fallen outside of your comfort zone, but thy doesn’t mean they are overpriced for the market as a whole.

#22 9 months ago

As long as nib prices continue to go up then so will the great b/w classics since the majority are still better than most of the newer expensive pins. Also many of the classics have been restored to like new or better condition which is not cheap to do correctly.. Also all original huo beautiful survivors are worth more imo since they wont be making anymore like that. I will pay up to get a original great condition survivor bc they are the rarest imo.

#23 9 months ago
Quoted from Tbachli:

With a flood of new machines in the $7-8K range, are the top B/W keeping pace? Some say remakes are killing the market, but IMHO, they don't play the same. Not that they're bad, just different and not the same. Is a clone the same as the real thing? Disclaimer, this is my ad:

Machine - For Sale
Indiana Jones: The Pinball AdventureFully shopped/refurbished “Great Indy in excellent condition. Cabinet in good condition, some fading but looks great. Full LEDs, newly rebuilt flippers with new flipper coils. Game plays very well, an exc...”
33 days ago Melissa, TX 7,200 (OBO)
Tbachli

SHIT, we almost made it to July this year before the 'bubble' thread...

#24 9 months ago

I mean, when a brand new Iron Maiden costs less than a Twilight Zone, which is fun and all but 20 years old and showing its age, it's hard not to go with the Maiden.

Maybe I just like the new stuff in the pipeline recently.

#25 9 months ago

You reminded me I wish I had the cash for that IJ. Thanks a lot

#26 9 months ago

If your looking to start that cookie cutter collection, yes...

#27 9 months ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I mean, when a brand new Iron Maiden costs less than a Twilight Zone, which is fun and all but 20 years old and showing its age, it's hard not to go with the Maiden.
Maybe I just like the new stuff in the pipeline recently.

Sure sure. Now replace Maiden with Aerosmith or GOTG etc. IMDN is getting more love than anything in awhil so I wouldn't use that as the baseline

#28 9 months ago

Just wait til your new machine blows an led and you have to buy a $300 board because it’s all surface mount. Then ask me if me if my b/w is overpriced.

#29 9 months ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I mean, when a brand new Iron Maiden costs less than a Twilight Zone, which is fun and all but 20 years old and showing its age, it's hard not to go with the Maiden.
Maybe I just like the new stuff in the pipeline recently.

They're almost two different animals from a collector's perspective, too. One is a machine that's currently being manufactured directly for collectors with unknown production numbers and the potential for future production by the same company (using the same parts) as today... the other is machine that's a truly collectable because its manufactured number is strictly defined (even though there's no count of what still remains in existence) and its original production is over.

Brings up that question of what's collectable and what's not collectable in the pinball world. Of course, none of that has anything to do with what you validly point out: perceived fun factor from a player's perspective!

#30 9 months ago

People joked that Judge Dredd was a $1400 game in the not too distant past...

#31 9 months ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

People joked that Judge Dredd was a $1400 game in the not too distant past...

This thread is aboot A listers

-1
#32 9 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

If people are paying, then it’s not over priced. When people stop paying, then it’s over priced. BW prices may have fallen outside of your comfort zone, but thy doesn’t mean they are overpriced for the market as a whole.

Just curious? Do you think a 99 cent masonry brick priced at $200 because it says "Supreme" is overpriced? There are fools who are paying that.

#33 9 months ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

No such thing. An individual game can certainly be price under or over market value... But as a whole, there is no such thing as "the entire market" being over/under priced. The entire market is as it stands and does not need to prove itself against any other entity. Does not matter what the product is that's being sold.
Now, "undervalued" or "overvalued" by the average pinball enthusiast, then you could be on to something.

Perfectly said.

#34 9 months ago

If it weren’t for the remakes I would imagine some of these A listers would be over $15k about now for nice examples

#35 9 months ago
Quoted from bonzo442:

If it weren’t for the remakes I would imagine some of these A listers would be over $15k about now for nice examples

Without a doubt... Good Point and for this I am greatful because I am not a rich man by any means. MM AFM MB would all be way out of my price range.

#36 9 months ago

Underpriced if anything. They aren’t making any more of ‘em!

Except for the ones they are.

#37 9 months ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I mean, when a brand new Iron Maiden costs less than a Twilight Zone, which is fun and all but 20 years old and showing its age, it's hard not to go with the Maiden. Maybe I just like the new stuff in the pipeline recently.

I don't know. I think if Twilight Zone were released today it would still look more like a feature packed game. Don't get me wrong, I like Iron Maiden too, but it's not surprising that a game like Twilight Zone is pricing out similar to a JJP game. Then you can also take a look at the budget W/B games: Bram Stoker's Dracula, Fish Tales, The Shadow, Judge Dredd, etc. You can almost purchase two of them for the price of a Stern (Pro). They have doubled in price in the last six years, but they still don't seem overpriced. I think it's the NIB prices that are leading the market, everything else is just adjusting up with them. The only true value right now is Hardbody .

#38 9 months ago

I looked up "Pinball" on dictionary.com, and the definition was "overpriced" along with a picture of a pile of money next to it. Seriously, as others have alluded to if things weren't "overpriced" then that would probably mean the hobby was dead. First world problems here, and we all are fortunate to have such a great hobby with so many like-minded people interested in it.

#39 9 months ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

I don't know. I think if Twilight Zone were released today it would still look more like a feature packed game. Don't get me wrong, I like Iron Maiden too, but it's not surprising that a game like Twilight Zone is pricing out similar to a JJP game. Then you can also take a look at the budget W/B games: Bram Stoker's Dracula, Fish Tales, The Shadow, Judge Dredd, etc. You can almost purchase two of them for the price of a Stern (Pro). They have doubled in price in the last six years, but they still don't seem overpriced. I think it's the NIB prices that are leading the market, everything else is just adjusting up with them. The only true value right now is Hardbody .

Dracula and Shadow haven't been budget pins for a while. Seems like $3500+ for a decent one. Big money now.

#40 9 months ago

A pinball machine is "overpriced" when it's not selling. When I scan Pinside, CL, Ebay, etc for my wishlist everything I'm looking for seems now 50% higher than a year ago, even 6 mos ago. That alone doesn't mean they're overpriced. But I honestly question whether anything is selling at these prices. They sure sit out there for a long time. That, to me, is the market definition of overpriced. It's called "waiting for the market to come to you." Similar to the "Make me sell" feature on Zillow... my home is not really for sale unless you want to pay me this crazy amount of money. Not sure these are legitimate sellers, and it confuses the market.

#41 9 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Dracula and Shadow haven't been budget pins for a while. Seems like $3500+ for a decent one. Big money now.

Just sold my decent Dracula for $3,000 two days ago. Perhaps you are correct though, there just might not be any "budget" DMDs at this point. Most prices have doubled in the last five to ten years. To me, those machines I listed are still the the best bang-for-your-buck entry point in DMDs. You can't any other top-25 games in the $3,000 range.

#42 9 months ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

Just sold my decent Dracula for $3,000 two days ago.

Which is a steal this day in age imo... still one my favorites after 3-4 years

#43 9 months ago
Quoted from jkleinnd:

A pinball machine is "overpriced" when it's not selling. When I scan Pinside, CL, Ebay, etc for my wishlist everything I'm looking for seems now 50% higher than a year ago, even 6 mos ago. That alone doesn't mean they're overpriced. But I honestly question whether anything is selling at these prices. They sure sit out there for a long time. That, to me, is the market definition of overpriced. It's called "waiting for the market to come to you." Similar to the "Make me sell" feature on Zillow... my home is not really for sale unless you want to pay me this crazy amount of money. Not sure these are legitimate sellers, and it confuses the market.

Homes were selling at crazy prices right up until the wheels came off the bus that was driving the inflated, broken model that was fueling the growth. That doesn't mean all those houses weren't overpriced or inflated just because they actually sold.

Prices can still be out of character and abnormal and still be moving product.

Where were all these "market sets the price" believers when gas was $4-$5 and people were freaking out over how gas was so expensive...

#44 9 months ago

I still think my greater point stands, that it is the NIB market that is driving everything else up. When I was looking at NIB prices, it was pretty easy for me to pickup games like Fish Tales, Dracula, Jurassic Park, The Shadow, and Congo instead. At the time of purchase, I bought each of those games for less then half the cost of a NIB. Sometimes cheaper then that. I think those prices going up was pretty predictable. They were previously a great value, lagging behind the NIB market. Now I think they are becoming more fairly priced. It's also interesting that the remakes have kind of set a maximum cap on W/B games. Before remakes the top end was really getting crazy.

#45 9 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Homes were selling at crazy prices right up until the wheels came off the bus that was driving the inflated, broken model that was fueling the growth. That doesn't mean all those houses weren't overpriced or inflated just because they actually sold.
Prices can still be out of character and abnormal and still be moving product.
Where were all these "market sets the price" believers when gas was $4-$5 and people were freaking out over how gas was so expensive...

I think this is true the closer you get to necessities and essentials, like homes and gasoline.... and water bottles after a hurricane.

#46 9 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Just curious? Do you think a 99 cent masonry brick priced at $200 because it says "Supreme" is overpriced? There are fools who are paying that.

Look, I can understand why you sour at the market. But the market is the market. Don’t like it? Don’t pay. It’s that simple. Overpriced is when the market stops buying. We haven’t really hit that yet.

#47 9 months ago

But if I don't buy a pin every 3 months I start getting the shakes

#48 9 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Look, I can understand why you sour at the market. But the market is the market. Don’t like it? Don’t pay. It’s that simple. Overpriced is when the market stops buying. We haven’t really hit that yet.

We have different definitions of overpriced, which is fine.

Fortunately still lots of eras to enjoy, so not sour.

Lots of us have stopped buying them.

#49 9 months ago

I've slowed down too. This hobby only made sense when older games were still being "discovered" in warehouses and grandpa's basements, and sold at used prices that made sense to the few who appreciated the nostalgia and enjoyed actually playing pinball. Honestly, with everything racing towards MSRP pricing set by modern manufactures, and brand new "hobbyists" with more money than God feeding Stern's pricing ambitions and buying more for show, is this even still a hobby? ... anymore than buying a pool table, or a hot tub, or a quad?

#50 9 months ago

Pins are only overpriced when thet don't sell. I think LE's are overpriced but obviously my opinion matters little when they sell out in minutes and get flipped for an even higher value. Same for BW top titles. Tough to find them in good shape so they demand a premium. It's no different than anything else. Supply and demand

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