Solingen
The only difference to Sys11c is that the segments are not inverted for Data East displays.
But this is handled by the APC anyway, so from the Lisy point of view they're identical.
(Topic ID: 239045)
Quoted from AmokSolderer:But this is handled by the APC anyway
Great
So I will add all 'early' DE games to next LISY test image.
Can I use the same display settings as 'SYS11A' for the DE games with "(2x) 7 Digit A/N (2x) 7 Digit Numeric" display?
Quoted from bontango:Can I use the same display settings as 'SYS11A' for the DE games with "(2x) 7 Digit A/N (2x) 7 Digit Numeric" display?
Yes, they're identical.
For some reason when I try to upload the gerber file to JLCPCB it does not load correctly. It never populates the board dimensions and does not show a preview of the board. Has anyone else run in to this?
see post #651
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Yes, this is a known issue. For some reason the JLC preview fails with the APC board data.
Just enter 200mmx237mm as board dimensions to get a reasonable quote and proceed with the ordering process. You wont be able to see the board preview, but the rest works.Quoted from matiou:
Alas the 74HCT273 ICs are out of stock at JLCPCB for quite a while now. Therefore I'm wondering whether it makes sense to change their TSSOP package to SOIC on the APC board to make it easier to solder them by hand or hot-air.
What do you think, would this help?
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Alas the 74HCT273 ICs are out of stock at JLCPCB for quite a while now. Therefore I'm wondering whether it makes sense to change their TSSOP package to SOIC on the APC board to make it easier to solder them by hand or hot-air.
Maybe add both so that you got the choice while assembling? I like to add SMD parts but also add the SMT holes so that if I have to replace it for some reason or do not get the SMD part I can still hand-solder the SMT one.
Stavanger
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Alas the 74HCT273 ICs are out of stock at JLCPCB for quite a while now. Therefore I'm wondering whether it makes sense to change their TSSOP package to SOIC on the APC board to make it easier to solder them by hand or hot-air.
What do you think, would this help?
Yes. Or through-hole ... 
Quoted from jabdoa:Maybe add both so that you got the choice while assembling?
I'm afraid that's not going to fit.
However, the solution seems to be to pre-order the missing parts at JLCPCB.
I've therefore changed the package of the 74HCT273 to SOIC in the fabrication data of the 00.23 branch and I've used a part that can be pre-ordered with a minimum quantity of 25 pcs.
Hence, I've now pre-ordered the required number of 50 ICs. From what I understood I can use these ICs to get my boards populated as soon as my order has been confirmed.
Quite cumbersome, but hopefully going to work.
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Hence, I've now pre-ordered the required number of 50 ICs. From what I understood I can use these ICs to get my boards populated as soon as my order has been confirmed.
Confirmed and delivered if they do not have it on stock. Its faster if they got it already but then you probably would not preorder 
.
Great, my pre-order was successful, but there was a modest price increase of almost 400%.
It was a nice try, but I'm not going to pay $75 for some stupid logic ICs.
I guess we have to wait until the supply chains have calmed down.
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Great, my pre-order was successful, but there was a modest price increase of almost 400%.
It was a nice try, but I'm not going to pay $75 for some stupid logic ICs.
I guess we have to wait until the supply chains have calmed down.
$75 for 50 x SN74HCT273DWE4 ? I just paid $19.20, but I see it says "Awaiting quote". Hmmm ...
Quoted from Zigzagzag:I just paid $19.20, but I see it says "Awaiting quote". Hmmm ...
Yeah, that's how it started for me also.
BTW, you were thinking about using the APC in a Hyperball, right? Any updates on this?
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Yeah, that's how it started for me also.
BTW, you were thinking about using the APC in a Hyperball, right? Any updates on this?
I paid the 75$, let´s see what happens.
The Hyperball is gone, but I need cards for Blackout and probably Time fantasy as well.
Hyperball needs a special driver card, so it wasn't gonna work anyways I think.
Quoted from Zigzagzag:I paid the 75$, let´s see what happens.
The Hyperball is gone, but I need cards for Blackout and probably Time fantasy as well.
Hyperball needs a special driver card, so it wasn't gonna work anyways I think.
Awesome. Maybe you can "sell" or move your unused parts to other JLCPCB users' accounts via their support?
Castres
Quoted from tmator:finally it works nicely on Data East
Looks good 
What I saw in the pinmame source is the following code:
/*Set coin door inputs, differs between S11 & DE*/
if (locals.deGame) {
pia_set_input_ca1(S11_PIA2, !core_getSw(DE_SWADVANCE));
pia_set_input_cb1(S11_PIA2, core_getSw(DE_SWUPDN));
}
else {
pia_set_input_ca1(S11_PIA2, core_getSw(S11_SWADVANCE));
pia_set_input_cb1(S11_PIA2, core_getSw(S11_SWUPDN));
}
So looks like the advance switch in DE games has inverse logic compared to williams and
I need to adjust the handling within LISY for DE games.
Did you try the DE diagnostic menue, does it work as expected?
AmokSolderer you may need to adjust the advance switch also in APC!?
Quoted from tmator:There is just a problem with this coil in pic, if ball goes to fast, coil is fired to late.
You can use a PinMameException for that, similar to what I did for the Magna Save of the Jungle Lord
You could use lamp 32 (Laser Kick) as a condition and fire the solenoid when switch 17 is triggered.
One important difference to my Jungle Lord code is that you must provide a duration for your solenoid as it must not be turned on permanently. Hence, it would be something like
ActivateSolenoid(40, 16);
in your case.
Quoted from tmator:About sound, there is just one Channel output on system 11 ? I need to make an adaptator.
Yes, System11 sound is just mono and all speakers are connected in parallel which you could do with an adapter.
As you seem to have experience with electronics you could also try to reuse your original audio board, but for that I'd need the communication between CPU and audio board recorded by a logic analyzer. Of course that'd mean you could just use the original sounds without the option to change anything.
Quoted from Zigzagzag:I paid the 75$, let´s see what happens.
Any news? Do you get your boards?
Quoted from Zigzagzag:Now the IRFsomethings are out of stock.
OK, but this is not that bad. These devices can be soldered by hand and it's only 4 per APC board.
Quoted from AmokSolderer:OK, but this is not that bad. These devices can be soldered by hand and it's only 4 per APC board.
Yeah, well, we'll see what has gone out of stock when the ICs arrive.
I'm not too impressed with their system.
Ideally it should be possible to make an order and reserve the components while waiting for the preorders, and then assemble when they arrive.
1 week later
Quoted from tmator:There is just a problem with this coil in pic, if ball goes to fast, coil is fired to late.
Any updates? Can I add Data East MPU Version 3 to the supported games list or did you encounter problems?
1 week later
Quoted from Zigzagzag:Yeah, well, we'll see what has gone out of stock when the ICs arrive.
Any news concerning your boards?
I'm preparing the release of the 0.23 branch on GitHub and I'm not sure whether to include the APC board data for the SOIC version of the 74HCT273 also. It doesn't make much sense if the ICs are not available.
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Any news concerning your boards?
I'm preparing the release of the 0.23 branch on GitHub and I'm not sure whether to include the APC board data for the SOIC version of the 74HCT273 also. It doesn't make much sense if the ICs are not available.
I have received my 5 boards, but haven't had time to assemble them yet ... dunno what is and isn't out of stock at the moment.
Quoted from Zigzagzag:I have received my 5 boards, but haven't had time to assemble them yet ... dunno what is and isn't out of stock at the moment.
I probably won't need more than 2 or so, so if anyone is interested in a board or two we can work out a deal.
Quoted from Zigzagzag:I probably won't need more than 2 or so, so if anyone is interested in a board or two we can work out a deal.
pm sended
2 weeks later
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Any updates? Can I add Data East MPU Version 3 to the supported games list or did you encounter problems?
Hi, sorry but no time to test this before one or two moth 
but all is working fine except this little bug !
From a 'LISY point of view' you need my latest testimage and select the right game.
https://lisy.dev/swrep/LISY_Image/test/
Game #73 for Laser War, complete gamelist here: https://lisy.dev/swrep/LISY_Image/test/cfg/lisyminigames.csv
Don't think you need special settings on APC side ...
Quoted from bontango:From a 'LISY point of view' you need my latest testimage and select the right game.
https://lisy.dev/swrep/LISY_Image/test/
Game #73 for Laser War, complete gamelist here: https://lisy.dev/swrep/LISY_Image/test/cfg/lisyminigames.csv
Don't think you need special settings on APC side ...
Ok, I read somewhere about the pinouts for "special solenoids" were different for Data East from sys11 ?
Quoted from tmator:but all is working fine except this little bug !
I wouldn't call it a bug. It's just something you have to handle with a PinMameException.
Quoted from Zigzagzag:Ok, I read somewhere about the pinouts for "special solenoids" were different for Data East from sys11 ?
Not that I'm aware of. We had an issue with the ground connection of the 'Special Solenoid Switches' connector, but this has been fixed with HW version 2.4.
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC/blob/master/DOC/Changes.md#new-hw-version-v24
However, Laser War does use a stereo sound board, so you're going to face the same problem as tmator
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/arduino-pinball-controller/page/18#post-6850484
That means you have to build a cable adapter and the sound with the APC will only be mono.
Quoted from AmokSolderer:I wouldn't call it a bug. It's just something you have to handle with a PinMameException.
Not that I'm aware of. We had an issue with the ground connection of the 'Special Solenoid Switches' connector, but this has been fixed with HW version 2.4.
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC/blob/master/DOC/Changes.md#new-hw-version-v24
However, Laser War does use a stereo sound board, so you're going to face the same problem as tmator
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/arduino-pinball-controller/page/18#post-6850484
That means you have to build a cable adapter and the sound with the APC will only be mono.
What is needed to make the original card work with this ?
A recording of the traffic on the data lines to the sound card with notes on triggered sounds ?
Quoted from Zigzagzag:What is needed to make the original card work with this ?
A recording of the traffic on the data lines to the sound card with notes on triggered sounds ?
Yeah, that would be a start. Based on that I can estimate how much effort it is to make it work.
1 month later
Circling back to System 11 sound board control, is there an existing expansion board design? Is this a matter of adding a pinmame exception to intercept writes to the sound board's address?
Don't want to reinvent the wheel if I can help it. Any info is helpful.
Quoted from RatShack:is there an existing expansion board design?
The pinning of APC's HW_exp interface fits the data input connector of the audio boards. That means from the electrical point of view there's no need for an expansion board.
The communication basics are already implemented in the SW, but up to now it only works for Sys 7 and 9, but not for Sys11.
Some time ago I monitored the digital communication in my Rollergames and found the data protocol somehow weird. I did a halfhearted attempt to implement this in the SW, but I wasn't able to make the audio board of my Rollergames work with it. As I didn't want to spend much time with it I just skipped it at the time.
Hence, the first step would be to find out how the data protocol works. After that we can think about ways to implement this with the APC.
So the 16 pin expansion port on the APC is pin compatible with the 20 pin data port on the sound board, minus the unused pins?
Quoted from RatShack:So the 16 pin expansion port on the APC is pin compatible with the 20 pin data port on the sound board, minus the unused pins?
Exactly, but you need an APC 3 board. 2.x boards would need an additional levelshifter for the clock/select signals.
I'd use a simple 5V controller to try which protocol makes the audio board work. I can try to find my old logic analyzer shots if you're interested.
2 weeks later
I just released SW version 0.23.
There have been some small bug fixes but nothing critical. On the other hand several new features have been added, especially for LEDs. Check out the changelog for details.
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC/blob/master/DOC/Changes.md
If this is too much text for you, then you can also click through the videos which are linked at the end of the homepage.
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC
As always, new ideas for improvements are welcome.
Shame on me, for almost forgetting Data East.
I have added a second table in the 'current status' section:
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC#current-status-july-2022
As I don't have any DE machines, I have to rely on your information. As I understood from tmator his Simpsons works, except for the audio.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/arduino-pinball-controller/page/18#post-6846714
The audio problem is present for all DE machines as Williams (and therefore the APC) has only mono sound. You can make it work with a cable adapter, but it'll still be mono of course.
If there's anybody out there who has used the APC with a DE version 1 or 2 machine, please give me a hint. I can update the table then.
Zigzagzag Any luck with your Laser War?
Quoted from AmokSolderer:Zigzagzag Any luck with your Laser War?
Still waiting for the playfield to come back from clearcoating ... but I have opted for a third-party MPU, the stereo sound is important to me.
If needed, I can probably assist in gathering data if you want to see if the original sound board can be controlled from APC.
Quoted from Zigzagzag:If needed, I can probably assist in gathering data if you want to see if the original sound board can be controlled from APC.
A recording of the communication would be helpful. Based on that we can discuss how to proceed.
1 week later
I had to do another release.
There was a serious bug in USBcontrol which could lead to an Error 11 (or worse) when the flipper fingers were being disabled at the end of a PinMame game.
If you're using the APC with PinMame I'd therefore recommend to update to SW version 0.30
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC
As always you can find additional infos in the changelog:
https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC/blob/master/DOC/Changes.md
Auckland
Hi AmokSolderer
I'm looking for something that can run MPF in a Gottlieb System 3, this MPF page indicates APC can do it: https://docs.missionpinball.org/en/stable/hardware/existing_machines/gottlieb_system3_to_7.html (page created by jabdoa
.... but I've just been through this thread, as well as the APC github page https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC#current-status-july-2022 and there's no mention of it. bontango 's site https://lisy.dev doesn't seem to have anything about System 3 either.
I've tagged everyone it looks like might know (sorry about that!) - any ideas or links to finding out more about this?
Thanks!
Quoted from m4tt:Hi AmokSolderer
I'm looking for something that can run MPF in a Gottlieb System 3, this MPF page indicates APC can do it: https://docs.missionpinball.org/en/stable/hardware/existing_machines/gottlieb_system3_to_7.html (page created by jabdoa
.... but I've just been through this thread, as well as the APC github page https://github.com/AmokSolderer/APC#current-status-july-2022 and there's no mention of it. bontango 's site https://lisy.dev doesn't seem to have anything about System 3 either.
I've tagged everyone it looks like might know (sorry about that!) - any ideas or links to finding out more about this?
Thanks!
Gottlieb system 7 ... ? Are you sure this isn't a typo and that it should read Williams system 3 to 7 ?
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