(Topic ID: 181967)

Arcade Expo 3.0 Who's going?


By girloveswaffles

2 years ago



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  • 230 posts
  • 47 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by rvdv
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    There are 230 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
    #201 2 years ago

    Switching over to LED's on the 80's and up crowd would definitely make things better in the long run.
    I also agree that blanketing cool white everything in the building would be a major travesty; especially on the EM's... (*cough* PHOF)
    If one of the major LED suppliers want to step in to help, be my guest. Having a single LED supplier like Comet or Cointaker with a multitude of bulb choices would be sweet to see in Banning.
    Heck, I'd even try to get Herg involved (LED OCD) for the DMD rows to keep both camps happy that crave the original lightshows.
    Energy/heat savings aside, those poor boards aren't getting any younger.

    Added over 3 years ago: I forgot to add Nifty LED to the list too. Sorry!

    #202 2 years ago
    Quoted from NimblePin:

    It was also nice to see Blownfuse's mug around people's neck during the show. (Thanks Practicalsteve) He will be sorely missed.

    My absolute pleasure. he will very much be missed but with us in Spirit. Great meeting you finally after seeing yo all these years as well.

    #203 2 years ago
    Quoted from NimblePin:

    If one of the major LED suppliers want to step in to help, be my guest. Having a single LED supplier like Comet or Cointaker with a multitude of bulb choices would be sweet to see in Banning.

    If a major LED supplier were to help out with discounted bulk buy in exchange for some sort name placement or whatever that could be a win/win.

    Its no small chore though. It would probably take replacing somewhere over 10,000 bulbs just to cover all the back-glasses.

    But accounting for reduced game stress, using less power and reduces stress on the A/C system it might pay off reasonably quick with the right per LED price.

    #204 2 years ago

    I bet a team of us could change all the back glass Gi to led in one weekend. I was gonna say day but that might be ambitious.

    #205 2 years ago
    Quoted from NimblePin:

    Switching over to LED's on the 80's and up crowd would definitely make things better in the long run.
    I also agree that blanketing cool white everything in the building would be a major travesty. (*cough* PHOF)
    If one of the major LED suppliers want to step in to help, be my guest. Having a single LED supplier like Comet or Cointaker with a multitude of bulb choices would be sweet to see in Banning.
    Heck, I'd even get Herg involved (LED OCD) for the DMD rows to keep both camps happy.
    Energy/heat savings aside, those poor boards aren't getting any younger.

    Quoted from merccat:

    If a major LED supplier were to help out with discounted bulk buy in exchange for some sort name placement or whatever that could be a win/win.
    Its no small chore though. It would probably take replacing somewhere over 10,000 bulbs just to cover all the back-glasses.
    But accounting for reduced game stress, using less power and reduces stress on the A/C system it might pay off reasonably quick with the right per LED price.

    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    I bet a team of us could change all the back glass Gi to led in one weekend. I was gonna say day but that might be ambitious.

    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    . If it were me I would LED everything, which I realize is complete heresy to many so no need to scold me.

    We've offered Arcade Expo, basically exactly this, even if just the backglasses were done it would help.

    Tim at the PHOF chooses the cool white LEDs and doesnt care what anyone thinks...

    -1
    #206 2 years ago
    Quoted from NiftyLED:

    Tim at the PHOF chooses the cool white LEDs and doesnt care what anyone thinks...

    Sorry to be ignorant, but would you clarify what you mean by this? Do people have an issue with LEDs in the back glass? I can understand how people might not like it on playfields - blue ones in particular make my vision fuzzy - but they make backglasses so much more vibrant and they barely reflect off the playfield glass. I don't know much about pinball repair but the one pin I have, I immediately changed out the lightbulb with LEDs and it's beautiful.

    Just wondering.

    #207 2 years ago

    I don't think he was talking about LED's in general, rather the LED light color.

    The cool white leds behind backglasses causes a color shift in the colors of the art. Warm white LED produce a color tone that is more natural and in line with how the artwork was originally intended to be lit.

    A decent side by side example can be found in the (I think) paint section (or maybe the lighting section) of most hrdware stores where they will put three bulbs with different tones of white side by side with some paint swatches underneath.

    It's pretty striking how three bulbs... all "white" can drastically change the color of paint... some colors get highlighted with one bulb while another bulb will wash out the same color.

    #208 2 years ago

    I see. Thanks merccat !

    #209 2 years ago
    Quoted from NiftyLED:

    We've offered Arcade Expo, basically exactly this, even if just the backglasses were done it would help.
    Tim at the PHOF chooses the cool white LEDs and doesnt care what anyone thinks...

    I will send Chuck a text, but he probably is reading this thread as I type The LED block buy / change out plan was discussed and I do believe it will be pursued before the October show.

    and yes as mentioned many times over the weekend, Tim is Tim

    #210 2 years ago

    The frosted versions also work better in the backglass than the clear versions. Warm white of course.
    IMHO as always.

    Maybe sometimes, but only sometimes, a few colored ones are OK in an EM backglass. It all depends on the art and your taste.

    My LED EM backglass, with a few colored ones.

    http://www.xsvtoys.net/images/pinball/bon%20voyage/Bon%20Voyage%20backglass%202.jpg

    #211 2 years ago

    Keep in mind that Tim soldered in cheap (3¢) white LED'd in the backglass and PF insert lights on many of his EM's. This was prior to all of the pin part suppliers getting in the biz.

    Those plain cold white LED'd look like shit in most of the BG's.

    Yes, he converts the power to DC with a bridge rectifier.

    #212 2 years ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    I bet a team of us could change all the back glass Gi to led in one weekend. I was gonna say day but that might be ambitious.

    Lets see, 700 pins
    100 techs
    each changes one back box a day,

    ... yeah that works.

    #213 2 years ago

    If a tech takes on day to change backglass Gi on one machine that is not good. If there were no issues changing backglass Gi is easy. Issues will come up, but overall a simple fast process, depending on the bulb type.

    Yeah I just thought about it I think would have to do about 150 a day roughly. I'd be willing to try, but a team could do it np. Teamwork baby.

    #214 2 years ago

    Team work baby I'm not trying to start stuff. I just think about things differently now. I like bigger problems. It's

    #215 2 years ago

    Cant get the dang iPad to do quotes for the life of me or edits, sorry.

    I like big problems now. I recently had a stroke and three brain surgeries. I barely lived. I got to banning on the first year and this last one. I am going to be involved in tech days in the fall, as I get better and can actually walk.

    The success of banning is important to me for years to come. It is my closest show physically and John weeks is a great guy in real life. I will do anything I can to help perpetuate this show and help as a volunteer.

    Maybe we should make a Gi backglass challenge, if that is something that is needed, might be fun!

    #216 2 years ago

    I had the pleasure of teching on Saturday and did notice a few weak flippers. I am looking forward to the next opportunity to shop some of the ems.

    #217 2 years ago

    So swaping out backglass LED's powet savings guess...

    I figure 12,000 bulbs (since many newer pins used other lighting sources i figured 400 pins at 30 bulbs each)... maybe high but will use the power draw for a 47 which is a lot lower and there are likely many 44's in the mix still...

    So check my math here...
    12,000 bulbs * 0.15amps per bulb (150milliamps) = 2,000 amps being drawn currently... just on backglass lights.

    Someone please check me here because that seems really high but then again its amazing how stuff adds up when were talking this kind of scale... I mean thats like 100 electric ovens running.

    Does anyone know what an LED draws? Assuming the draw is a quarter of that were talking 1,500 fewer amps plus all the heat savings.

    #218 2 years ago

    i love power consumption. This is an oddball power scenario. My favorite.

    I will of course to help in any way.

    #219 2 years ago

    Oh what I wanted to sAy was also besides lighting which is easier, are there actual power consumption reducers for the older machines? Challenge number two.

    #220 2 years ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    i love power consumption. This is an oddball power scenario. My favorite.
    I will of course to help in any way.

    Yeah and you have to account for voltage as well which I ignored...

    I'm going to guestimate 250kWH to run just the backglasses for the weekend show.... but power calculations isn't anything I have any sort of experience in.

    #221 2 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    So swaping out backglass LED's powet savings guess...
    I figure 12,000 bulbs (since many newer pins used other lighting sources i figured 400 pins at 30 bulbs each)... maybe high but will use the power draw for a 47 which is a lot lower and there are likely many 44's in the mix still...
    So check my math here...
    12,000 bulbs * 0.15amps per bulb (150milliamps) = 2,000 amps being drawn currently... just on backglass lights.
    Someone please check me here because that seems really high but then again its amazing how stuff adds up when were talking this kind of scale... I mean thats like 100 electric ovens running.
    Does anyone know what an LED draws? Assuming the draw is a quarter of that were talking 1,500 fewer amps plus all the heat savings.

    Don't forget to factor in machines that use Full size lamps or florescent lamps in therm (i.E. a lot of Gottlieb system 80b and system three, or Bally 6803 games that came with circuline florescents that fit in an every day screw in light socket).
    Blackwater BB (resized).jpgMonte Carlo BB (resized).jpg
    Some games could easily take a 7 watt (40 watt equivalent) screw in L.E.D. and ones that have the tube type florescents can use some of those drop in L.E.D. replacements.

    As far as the current draw, that may vary by type and manufacturer.

    #222 2 years ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    If a tech takes on day to change backglass Gi on one machine that is not good. If there were no issues changing backglass Gi is easy. Issues will come up, but overall a simple fast process, depending on the bulb type.
    Yeah I just thought about it I think would have to do about 150 a day roughly. I'd be willing to try, but a team could do it np. Teamwork baby.

    You do realize that was a joke.

    #223 2 years ago
    Quoted from merccat:

    So swaping out backglass LED's powet savings guess...
    I figure 12,000 bulbs (since many newer pins used other lighting sources i figured 400 pins at 30 bulbs each)... maybe high but will use the power draw for a 47 which is a lot lower and there are likely many 44's in the mix still...
    So check my math here...
    12,000 bulbs * 0.15amps per bulb (150milliamps) = 2,000 amps being drawn currently... just on backglass lights.
    Someone please check me here because that seems really high but then again its amazing how stuff adds up when were talking this kind of scale... I mean thats like 100 electric ovens running.
    Does anyone know what an LED draws? Assuming the draw is a quarter of that were talking 1,500 fewer amps plus all the heat savings.

    Savings could be even higher. Take for example T2 which appears to have 33 #555 lamps which are actually rated at 0.250amps, not the smaller 0.150 of a #47. That's 8.25 amps vs. your 4.5 amps of 30 X #47. That's almost double the power consumption.

    Maybe John can do an "Adopt-a-Pin" campaign and let people donate to populate their favorite game (approximately $18 for 30 X $0.59 for Twin 2835 SMT Frosted warm white bulbs (Comet bulk pricing)).

    OF course, savings could be a wash depending on what LED is being used and how its wired. There are high output (0.2W) 2835 LEDs that consume up to 60ma. If wired in parallel, that is potentially 120ma per bulb. Not too much savings over a #47 at 150ma (other than heat reduction). It seems it would be unlikely they are wired in series for a 6.3V application since the voltage for a White LED is around 3.2v and two of them would be 6.4v with no head room for a current limiting resistor. OF course, a lot of standard brightness LEDs only use 20ma each. So say 40ma per bulb which would be a savings of 210ma compared to a #555 lamp which would be a savings of 84% per bulb.

    #224 2 years ago

    I used to do well with jokes but since my stroke And three brain surgeries, shit flies right over my head now. I'm getting better and I try to hang out with the normal kids.

    That's why I wanted it to be clear I'm not stirring up crap here. I only want to help.

    I really love the retrofit discussion. We should all be able to worry about our collections power consumption.

    #225 2 years ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    That's why I wanted it to be clear I'm not stirring up crap here. I only want to help.

    Hey man, at least you ain't getting downvoted for asking a question. Damn.

    #226 2 years ago

    There would probably need to be a bit of experimenting for standard bulbs.

    A household screw in will probably produce a hot spot right in the center, may need to darken the end of the bulb somehow (hit it with a burst of white spray paint.

    Led replacement fluorescent tubes only emit light on one side (180 degrees). So there won't be as much dispersion of light like with the original. Not that it as such a great design to begin with.

    #227 2 years ago

    Wow this looks like fun. I misread this as "pinball expo", but this makes PE look like a tea party. If it wasn't so close to Midwest Gaming Classic, I would be bookin' a flight.

    #228 2 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    There would probably need to be a bit of experimenting for standard bulbs.
    A household screw in will probably produce a hot spot right in the center, may need to darken the end of the bulb somehow (hit it with a burst of white spray paint.
    Led replacement fluorescent tubes only emit light on one side (180 degrees). So there won't be as much dispersion of light like with the original. Not that it as such a great design to begin with.

    Some bulbs are designed not to put out too much light from the end, and disperse it more to the sides so they look okay in a lamp shade. I've seen them used in small back-lighted signs before. As far as the florescent tube replacements I haven't seen one in use yet.

    #229 2 years ago
    Quoted from s1500:

    Wow this looks like fun. I misread this as "pinball expo", but this makes PE look like a tea party. If it wasn't so close to Midwest Gaming Classic, I would be bookin' a flight.

    Chicago Pinball Expo is great for seminars and meeting industry people
    and possible new pinball announcements, but playing pinball not so much,
    but if you want to play every pin made since about 1970 to present
    then Banning Arcade Expo is the place to be.

    #230 2 years ago

    What was the headcount for this event ?

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