(Topic ID: 249311)

Appropriate compensation? Not pinball related


By Spencer

10 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by Oaken
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

#1 10 days ago

First off as the title says, this isn't about pinball but plenty of you guys have redone games rooms, etc.

Ok, 14 months ago, I paid $11000 to have central a/c installed into my new home. My sales guy said it would be close to double if I had the builder install it, so I went to another company after the house was build.

I contracted a nationwide dealer and from day one, it has been a nightmare. I have had honestly 15+ service calls and it still isn't fixed 100% yet. ( A wall in the house rattles badly when one unit runs ). They know what the problem is but don't want to fix it properly. ( they ran all the lines for both units through one hole, so they touch each other and the foundation, causing a rattle. ) I was told the proper way to repair this would be to drill a separate hole and run each unit through one hole. They want to fill the hole with spray foam.

After what seems like endless service calls, I come to find out, the breakers installed for the units were both 40's and should have been 25 and 30. So, I begin to wonder how this is even possible, I mean didn't someone sign off on this very dangerous situation? I call the city and come to find out, said company, never even applied for a permit to complete the work!!

That was the breaking point for me and YES, I should have probably been more involved in the process and realized this earlier but I work everyday, my wife gets the pleasure of dealing with these clowns, not me. The contract states, they look after everything from start to finish, including the permit, calling for marking services, finding allowable placement locations, etc. So, I thought it was all good.

So, I emailed sales and gave them one last chance to make this right or I was going to contact the BBB. They replied right away, the permit was applied for with-in 2 hours and a blanket offer of $500 was given. Along with a promise to repair the rattle but they still want to use spray foam, clearly the much cheaper way to repair.

Sorry for the rant, I am beyond pissed about this whole situation and the fact my family lived in a potentially dangerous situation for the last 14 months. Just wondering if you guys think $500 is appropriate for this?? That is what they offer everyone who complains, so I'm not sure its acceptable in this case?

Thoughts??

#2 10 days ago
Quoted from Spencer:

First off as the title says, this isn't about pinball but plenty of you guys have redone games rooms, etc.
Ok, 14 months ago, I paid $11000 to have central a/c installed into my new home. My sales guy said it would be close to double if I had the builder install it, so I went to another company after the house was build.
I contracted a nationwide dealer and from day one, it has been a nightmare. I have had honestly 15+ service calls and it still isn't fixed 100% yet. ( A wall in the house rattles badly when one unit runs ). They know what the problem is but don't want to fix it properly. ( they ran all the lines for both units through one hole, so they touch each other and the foundation, causing a rattle. ) I was told the proper way to repair this would be to drill a separate hole and run each unit through one hole. They want to fill the hole with spray foam.
After what seems like endless service calls, I come to find out, the breakers installed for the units were both 40's and should have been 25 and 30. So, I begin to wonder how this is even possible, I mean didn't someone sign off on this very dangerous situation? I call the city and come to find out, said company, never even applied for a permit to complete the work!!
That was the breaking point for me and YES, I should have probably been more involved in the process and realized this earlier but I work everyday, my wife gets the pleasure of dealing with these clowns, not me. The contract states, they look after everything from start to finish, including the permit, calling for marking services, finding allowable placement locations, etc. So, I thought it was all good.
So, I emailed sales and gave them one last chance to make this right or I was going to contact the BBB. They replied right away, the permit was applied for with-in 2 hours and a blanket offer of $500 was given. Along with a promise to repair the rattle but they still want to use spray foam, clearly the much cheaper way to repair.
Sorry for the rant, I am beyond pissed about this whole situation and the fact my family lived in a potentially dangerous situation for the last 14 months. Just wondering if you guys think $500 is appropriate for this?? That is what they offer everyone who complains, so I'm not sure its acceptable in this case?
Thoughts??

You might be able to get them to fix it "properly" with the second hole and some compensation IF they make you sign a non disclosure report not to give them a bad rap on review sites. Seen that lately in the news. Could you hold them hostage with a bad review if they don't fix it the way it needs to be?

#3 10 days ago
Quoted from northerndude:

You might be able to get them to fix it "properly" with the second hole and some compensation IF they make you sign a non disclosure report not to give them a bad rap on review sites. Seen that lately in the news. Could you hold them hostage with a bad review if they don't fix it the way it needs to be?

I really don't want to play games, that's why I'm asking if $500 is enough, or not? Just want it fixed and appropriate compensation for my time/trouble and safety.

12
#4 10 days ago

This may hurt to hear....
No permit= take it all out, tell them to remove the whole system on their dime.

Why? God forbid something happens and house gets burned to the ground because of this non-permitted installation, your house insurance provider may say tuff cookies.

I don't roll the dice with my home.
-Mike

#5 9 days ago

If they pulled their permit now, at least it should be inspected. If they pay you your $500 for hardship and nuisance, it's help and a (color dmd)

If there's an inspection, i'd make sure the guy/gal goes through it like a fine tooth comb.

#6 9 days ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I really don't want to play games, that's why I'm asking if $500 is enough, or not? Just want it fixed and appropriate compensation for my time/trouble and safety.

I wouldn't except a thing until the inspector has checked things out. You may also have a separate electrical inspector.

Here in MN, the fine for doing electrical work without a permit can go as high as $5000.

#7 9 days ago

If it was done while a home was being built does that change things? As in, is the whole construction under some sort of universal permit for a new house? I don’t know the answer.

#8 9 days ago

Well if it was me, the fact that they didn't apply for a permit and that inspection wasnt done before boxing everything up, I would have them do the following and CC the city inspection department at the same time in all mail.

1) remove the drywall to expose the work done
2) while the drywall is open, have them run the line properly
3) get it approved by a licensed inspector
4) get them to close it all up

As for the spray foam idea, I'd have to wonder what the heat and cold cycles would do to that foam (I'm guessing it would eventually crack).

It's not your problem that the clowns tried to skip some steps.

#9 9 days ago

I might consider not working with that company any more and hire someone else that knows what they are doing to fix up or redo the whole thing. I know that is not the cheapest thing but I would be concerned it would never be done right with current company.

#10 9 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

If it was done while a home was being built does that change things? As in, is the whole construction under some sort of universal permit for a new house? I don’t know the answer.

If it had been done while the house was being built, it would have been covered by the building permit. No separate permit would have to have been taken out.

#11 9 days ago
Quoted from Spencer:

aid it would be close to double if I had the builder install it, so I went to another company after the house was build.

This part is confusing, why would it be less expensive to install the system after the home is completed when it is so much easier to do it when everything is exposed?
Are you saying the builder wanted more to install it during construction than the other company could do it for after the home is completed?

#12 9 days ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I wouldn't except a thing until the inspector has checked things out. You may also have a separate electrical inspector.
Here in MN, the fine for doing electrical work without a permit can go as high as $5000.

Protect yourself and your home first. If you have to hold them hostage with a bad review or the threat if a fine (as the poster above mentioned), do it.

Get the best inspector you can find and have him/her go to work with a fine-tooth comb.

You need to make sure your home is taken care of properly now and into the future.

As far as compensation...only you xan determine that. I wouldn't let them off the hook for less than 1000-1500...and only after it was 100% working and done properly.

#13 9 days ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

If it had been done while the house was being built, it would have been covered by the building permit. No separate permit would have to have been taken out.

Not in my area. You have to have separate Foundation, Framing, Plumbing, Electrical and Mechanical Permits all with different inspectors. There is no all in one encompassing permit.

I would definitely call the town building inspection department and ask for their advice. You can pull permits retrospectively, but the inspector may require walls to be opened up to inspect the hvac coolant lines, if you have a separate air handler separated from the heat pump. Those lines have to be secured in the walls a set distance, and the only way to know is to open the wall. Same for any wiring ran in chases behind the walls. The caveat with this, is you are now on the town inspection radar, and it will have to be fixed. If you're contractor skips or balks, then you'll have to sue or fix it on your dime.

#14 9 days ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

This may hurt to hear....
No permit= take it all out, tell them to remove the whole system on their dime.
Why? God forbid something happens and house gets burned to the ground because of this non-permitted installation, your house insurance provider may say tuff cookies.
I don't roll the dice with my home.
-Mike

Honestly, never thought about that. With the inspector now coming, I wonder if it is indeed needed though.

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I wouldn't except a thing until the inspector has checked things out. You may also have a separate electrical inspector.
Here in MN, the fine for doing electrical work without a permit can go as high as $5000.

This is what I think I'm going to do. Wait to see what the inspector/inspectors say and then proceed.

Quoted from desertT1:

If it was done while a home was being built does that change things? As in, is the whole construction under some sort of universal permit for a new house? I don’t know the answer.

It was done after the house was finished.

Quoted from cosmokramer:

This part is confusing, why would it be less expensive to install the system after the home is completed when it is so much easier to do it when everything is exposed?
Are you saying the builder wanted more to install it during construction than the other company could do it for after the home is completed?

The basic HVAC system is installed with new furnace's etc when the house was built. The additional A/C units are plumbed into the new furnace's and wired in. I was told to expect 2X mark up from my builder for the compressor units and install. In hindsight, the extra money would have been worth it.

#15 9 days ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Not in my area. You have to have separate Foundation, Framing, Plumbing, Electrical and Mechanical Permits all with different inspectors. There is no all in one encompassing permit.
I would definitely call the town building inspection department and ask for their advice. You can pull permits retrospectively, but the inspector may require walls to be opened up to inspect the hvac coolant lines, if you have a separate air handler separated from the heat pump. Those lines have to be secured in the walls a set distance, and the only way to know is to open the wall. The caveat with this, is you are now on the town inspection radar, and it will have to be fixed. If you're contractor skips or balks, then you'll have to sue or fix it on your dime.

It was a fairly simple install. The compressor units are located outside the basement, beside the furnaces. The lines only run through the foundation, not through any walls. ( thankfully ). So inspection should be simple enough, I hope. I'm not very concerned about them walking, as they are a cross country company, not a local contractor.

#16 9 days ago
Quoted from Spencer:

It was a fairly simple install. The compressor units are located outside the basement, beside the furnaces. The lines only run through the foundation, not through any walls. ( thankfully ). So inspection should be simple enough, I hope. I'm not very concerned about them walking, as they are a cross country company, not a local contractor.

Then town inspector is the way to go. See what they say, and then hold the contractor to it.

#17 9 days ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I was told to expect 2X mark up from my builder for the compressor units and install. In hindsight, the extra money would have been worth it.

Probably not 2X but it would be more as your builder, more then likely, would've subcontracted the work out. So they charge you more in order to pay the HVAC their price and then make money for the time they put in to getting the contractor.

#18 9 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

Probably not 2X but it would be more as your builder, more then likely, would've subcontracted the work out. So they charge you more in order to pay the HVAC their price and then make money for the time they put in to getting the contractor.

Right, he said double. The exact amount, who knows, except they would take an extra cut. Should have done it though in hindsight.

#19 9 days ago

The cheap usually comes out more expensive............

#20 9 days ago

A new home and you didn't have the HVAC in the estimate? You took the word of an outside salesman? That's why you hired a contractor in the first place. He goes out and gets the price from his subcontractor and then you agree to it, that is shown in his estimate.

What happened is when you bring in your own subcontractor away from the builder. You become the general contractor. It is all on you to rectify the problem with your HVAC guy.

If you had left it to your home builder he would have solved it for you. But now it's leg work that you don't need. Sorry, but take your medicine. Call your HVAC "salesman"and squeak till you get the grease.

-1
#21 9 days ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

A new home and you didn't have the HVAC in the estimate? You took the word of an outside salesman? That's why you hired a contractor in the first place. He goes out and gets the price from his subcontractor and then you agree to it, that is shown in his estimate.
What happened is when you bring in your own subcontractor away from the builder. You become the general contractor. It is all on you to rectify the problem with your HVAC guy.
If you had left it to your home builder he would have solved it for you. But now it's leg work that you don't need. Sorry, but take your medicine. Call your HVAC "salesman"and squeak till you get the grease.

I took the advise of MY home builders salesman, six months before moving in. Two months after moving in, I had the a/c installed. Should I have done it and put it in the mortgage up front? Probably, but it was my first new home build and I was basically told not too. My mistake and I'm only asking for advise on compensation at this point. Is the $500 they offered enough? That's it.

#22 9 days ago

I'd sure as heck would be there when the inspector shows up and make sure he looks at it w/a fine tooth comb. And as flash mentioned, I'd be worried about spray foam over the years - cracking.

In the states where I live I think there's a single permit pulled, but then there's multiple inspections as the build progresses.

#23 9 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

The cheap usually comes out more expensive............

So far its still way cheaper and like I said, it didn't just pick some guy off of Craigslist. Anyway, this thread is about what I should ask for in compensation, nothing more.

#24 9 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

I'd sure as heck be there when the inspector shows up and make sure he looks at it w/a fine tooth comb. And as flash mentioned, I'd be worried about spray foam over the years - cracking.

Yes, I certainly am.

#25 9 days ago

Spray foam will degrade over time due to sun exposure. They want to use spray foam because it's an easy and cheap fix. When it goes bad, they will be long gone. As far as what to ask for compensation, that's going to be hard to answer based on a number of factors. Going rate for contractors in your area, the other being how far do you want to take it until you feel satisfied with the work performed. If you are really concerned about this company and whether they will properly fix the issues, you could get estimates from a competitor to fix the issues correctly. That would be your compensation price.

#26 9 days ago

Call someone for an estimate from another professional to fix it. That should tell you pretty quickly what kind of compensation you need.

#27 8 days ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Call someone for an estimate from another professional to fix it. That should tell you pretty quickly what kind of compensation you need.

^This.

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