If you’re going to charge the same prices as the big boys you should expect your product to be compared to theirs. Fact is the sculpts are not on the same level but the price is. Resorting to insulting customers who point that out is unfortunate.
If you’re going to charge the same prices as the big boys you should expect your product to be compared to theirs. Fact is the sculpts are not on the same level but the price is. Resorting to insulting customers who point that out is unfortunate.
Quoted from Invictus:Let me elaborate in simple terms...
Stern's approach to product development is like making a lot of cookies that all look and taste the same. While it's cost-effective and can sell a lot of cookies quickly, it can also be risky for the business. Customers might get bored with the lack of variety, and they might start looking for something more interesting and exciting elsewhere.
Additionally, if competitors start making cookies that are more unique and tailored to customer preferences, Stern could be left behind in the market. By investing more in product innovation and variety, Stern could create more loyal and engaged customers, and stay ahead of competitors in a competitive market.
This is commonly referred to as a "cookie-cutter" approach to product development in business and academic contexts...
“Something something economics….anyone? Anyone? Voo-Doo economics.”
AP needs to hire Rosh back to be the face of AP on pinside. He was/is a true professional when interacting with us all in the other AP game threads. He answered questions , addressed concerns and provided reasoning for decisions made by AP. It was comforting especially given their new status. It would be helpful to have someone like Rosh here. I dont think Fix is that guy.
This game looks great. Noordman is a great designer, APs quality is top notch and superior to spooky, JJP and even stern. They are built like tanks. They make a quality product.
Let’s see some real game play video AP!
Quoted from iceman44:It’s not just the talking about it. It’s the incessant over the top obnoxious smugness of the talking about it.
It’s fine by me and I can respond appropriately, but I can see how it can rub people the wrong way. Especially employees that put in hard work to bring a game to life.
And i don’t know why anyone would want to dump on a game in a hype thread they have zero interest in.
Well me personally, I was pretty much all in on this game pre trailer. While I am not 100% out yet, it just keeps getting worse. Many are hanging around because they had high hopes, and looking for anything to turn them into buyers. Guess we will see this weekend. You know me, I speak my mind. It's not hate, it's observation.
Every time I come to this thread to check on the release, maybe get a bit more info on it, or see a new gameplay vid to decide if I should buy one of these - it just gets weirder and weirder!
Quoted from Metaluna5:Deleted post
I used to have mad respect for this dude, with one shitpost that all went straight down the toilet. Bravo
Also I find my wife to be incredibly hot, and our two kids are super awesome. I consider them to be pretty damn perfect.
Quoted from Metaluna5:Deleted post
Key post right here for new buyers.
Now if Dennis can chime in and let us know how we destroyed his hopes and dreams.
Or Ryan letting us know he can’t make mortgage next month.
But hey, at least the manufacturers are engaged in Pinside! Yay!
Quoted from iceman44:Like when Steve Ritchie said Pinside was a “sewer” and no one from Stern frequents this place?
You're just a little off base there. I guarantee everyone with a deskjob at Stern, JJP and CGC skim Pinside weekly if not daily. They may not actively participate, but they read it all.
Quoted from Vino:AP needs to get some control of this entire rollout.
It’s a good product and has gained my interest.
Justified or not, insulting potential customers expressing opinions on a forum..not the best marketing strategy.
The inmates are running the asylum!!!
And they all think you settled for less hot wives than you should have!!
www.artstation.com
American Pinball can find a new artist in less than 1 minute. Talented artists are everywhere. 100,000 portfolios at your fingertips.
Quoted from iceman44:Like when Steve Ritchie said Pinside was a “sewer” and no one from Stern frequents this place? They just take us for granted
I am pretty sure Iceman doesn't really exist... it's actually just Jersey Jack trolling us with more Harry Potter tweets, and pumping AP titles in an effort to kill Foo Fighter sales...
Jack just said he is streaming the game very very very very very soon, just not tonight. Might have missed a "very".
Hope someone screenshot the now deleted post from AP's Art/Marketing Dept.
Great going AP. The wet blanket of pinball.
Quoted from BallLocks:I am pretty sure Iceman doesn't really exist... it's actually just Jersey Jack trolling us with more Harry Potter tweets, and pumping AP titles in an effort to kill Foo Fighter sales...
solid theory
Quoted from dpadam450:www.artstation.com
American Pinball can find a new artist in less than 1 minute. Talented artists are everywhere. 100,000 portfolios at your fingertips.
That's insulting. Franchi did a brilliant job on this machine. It's really the best thing about the machine.
A great artist is not a super polite, politically correct person? That's surprising!
It's just a shame he felt like he needed to step in and defend the decisions of AP because AP can't be bothered to say/show anything about the game they're trying to sell us.
Quoted from Zablon:Well me personally, I was pretty much all in on this game pre trailer. While I am not 100% out yet, it just keeps getting worse. Many are hanging around because they had high hopes, and looking for anything to turn them into buyers. Guess we will see this weekend. You know me, I speak my mind. It's not hate, it's observation.
Oh yeah, not saying you, some extended game play seems to resolve most issues whether folks are in or out.
None of this majoring in the minors really matters if you like the game. If not, plenty of others.
What an embarrassing way to represent your „family“/AP, Franchi. You should be totally ashamed of yourself. Those are all valid concerns regarding to the price tag we’re talking about. Who do you think you are implicitly rating my wife? Shame on you; I better understand now why Stern fired you years ago. AP should chime in and cool down and take some actions. I personally expect a statement that this is not an official AP POV and an excuse for offending people who spend a fortune on pinball machines you are allowed to drop your art on
Thousands of artists from Star Wars, Films, Videogames, Special Effects shops all congregate there. I'm not knocking the art package on Galactic. Just like talking about 3D printed toys is not knocking the art package on Galactic.
The guy shouldn't have said that...
But let's cut him a little slack. He is an artist. Tell Tom Cruise his latest movie sucked because of the budget in some of the effects, and the dude will probably react badly. He made an analogy (albeit an inappropriate one) about significant others... that tells me he LOVES this game. He also mentioned "settling" which tells me they did the best they could with what they had. He didn't say "that was an intentional design choice," or some other BS. Again, not excusing it, but it's not the whole of AP telling everyone to F* off. It's someone that couldn't take their baby being called ugly, and at least I can understand that...
Quoted from BallLocks:He also mentioned "settling" which tells me they did the best they could with what they had. ..
The BOM is the BOM on this $17,000 game guys. We put some tank treads on the side of the cab WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
Gonna go rip some Bond ramps now.
Seems like a bunch of intolerant man babies getting their feelings hurt here Ffs.
As usual, so many take things the wrong way and lose their fragile minds over nothing
Quoted from BallLocks:The guy shouldn't have said that...
But let's cut him a little slack. He is an artist. Tell Tom Cruise his latest movie sucked because of the budget in some of the effects, and the dude will probably react badly.
A tomcruisergument? We are in uncharted territory now!
I see where you are coming from. What good does insulting your customers do?
Imagine if his response was along the lines of this - Thank you for sharing your concerns, we worked really hard on this and will always try our best to do better. We hear what you are saying and sincerely hope that you will still enjoy the game. Or something along those lines - much better than talking about our wives and telling us to shut the hell up.
Quoted from Sorokyl:The BOM is the BOM on this $17,000 game guys. We put some tank treads on the side of the cab WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
Lol.
I don't pretend to know AP's Financials, or the cost of developing this title... But this whole thing has passion project written all over it, which can lead to bad cost decisions on some areas at the expense of others. The higher priced titles feel like they were priced that way to keep the price lower on some of the other game tiers... could be totally wrong, but their super exclusive top tier just doesn't add up for me any other way...
Passion projects can be awesome, or come across like someone else's inside joke that no one gets. The jury is still out for me on this thing...
Quoted from adborto:I see where you are coming from. What good does insulting your customers do?
Imagine if his response was along the lines of this - Thank you for sharing your concerns, we worked really hard on this and will always try our best to do better. We hear what you are saying and sincerely hope that you will still enjoy the game. Or something along those lines - much better than talking about our wives and telling us to shut the hell up.
I don't disagree at all. Just saying I understand where he is coming from, not condoning the language nor the approach.
Serious question and AP might be watching the thread. Why don't they just go with SLA printed toys? It's still super cheap with no upfront cost in molds.
GTF was the only new game that held my interest due to theme. I’ll be heading up to MGC Saturday to specifically get eyes on it & play it. I was planning on a new game this year and in theory this ticked all the boxes.
While the build up has been less ideal, I was still reserving judgement til I played it. Some people may blast it, some may love it but that’s why there are different games/manufacturers out there. There is no one size fits all, different people have different tastes and that’s awesome!
But the recently deleted comment by Metaluna5 drained most of the little interest I had left. Completely unbelievable that a AP employee (or subcontractor) would publicly & deliberately blast the very community it markets to!
So Jack Danger is NOT streaming the game today? Or is the plastic cutting he's currently doing the exciting pre-show?
edit: er, not plastic cutting, signing or something.
Quoted from stubborngamer:So Jack Danger is NOT streaming the game today? Or is the plastic cutting he's currently doing the exciting pre-show?
Im guessing no stream. I dont know why its so hard to stream the game for us plebs that want to see it before forking over a significant amount of money.
Quoted from badfish981:But the recently deleted comment by Metaluna5 drained most of the little interest I had left. Completely unbelievable that a AP employee (or subcontractor) would publicly & deliberately blast the very community it markets to!
It was almost as bad for me, as Jersey Jack blaming me, and all other GNR owners with Mirco's dissolving playfields, for the crap they put in my GNR.
"It's the owners fault."
If that's your position, I totally respect that. But this community has short memories...
What does game play Video really do. It can't be that hard to imagine how it's going to play.
I could be waiting for game play vid.
It's going to be played by a professional player none the less to make the game shine.
But this video will not look how this game will do for the casual player or how a casual player approaches.
This is what pinside needs to keep in mind is that these games are for the casual player too not for some "elite" level scorers and tourny players.
AP decided it was going to deut the game at Texas Pinball Festival, that's their prerogative it by the video and the idea, that is out of the box thinking as python Angelo would say with the moving machine.
You really can't get the real live feeling from a Video and experience that the maker intended to have.
Plus it about time aught to unplug ourselves from what others say about things this hobby could certainly take stock in others comments but at the end of the day it's our individual bank accounts here at stake.
If you want in go in, if not then don't. For those who are not respectfully state why and leave it up to the undecided and others to take stock or do they will with the machine.
This was a hype thread to get people who are wanting to buy in and those undecided to spend their cash.
This name calling, body part galvanting, putting down, and rushing to judgement what gives pinside it reputation.
Maybe just freaking maybe pinside could stop look into the mirror and see the hideous monster it becomes and do some soul searching before someone bings this website and see the cesspool that the hobby is starting to show and puts their money somewhere else.
We are ambassadors to the hobby. To a world to a niche hobby that has the potential to reach the grip it once had.
It starts with us. Its not Going to go anywhere untill we decide to act like mature adults in the room and show the outsiders their more to pinball than Bally/Williams.
"Any pinball is good pinball" that should be bedrock of what this hobby rests on.
Good luck.
Well TPF is over but I see the "Whiners Convention" is still in town...Geez people. There is really no useful information in this thread other than making it abundantly clear that there are a lot of people whose sole lot in life is to piss and moan...who, until they have actually purchased the game, have no right to piss and moan. My guess is that the majority of whiners here have either purchased, or plan to purchase a PF, FF, GF or some other MF and hate the fact GTF is looking pretty damn good...and it is.
While I didn’t like the aforementioned comment, it also had zero bearing on my interest in the title
I still look forward to seeing real gameplay.
I want to like this! The marketing and messaging has made it hard
Quoted from Sorokyl:Still missing your point. The flat plastic (which I definitely prefer to this, because at least it has polish), is on a $7000 model. you do the $9500 model (free ship vs the $9400 for my shipped GTF), you get nice toys.
BTW It looks like AP has uploaded some high res pictures on their website which really allows these new toys to shine in all their bad overhang, stringing, printed-too-fast, imporperly tuned printer glory:[quoted image][quoted image]
I'm not gonna sugar-coat it. the 3d-printed toys they used are unappealing. I'm a little curious to know how you guys would've done it differently though. I think if they just spent a little more time on it with like.. Solvents... or Epoxy... or even just priming and sanding it. the results probably would've looked nicer. I don't know awhole lot about that stuff though so i'm a little curious.
Odd hype thread...
My decision to buy or not buy a $10k machine is not based on the plastic toys. If I had to list the aspects of a machine in order of importance, the plastic toys would not be in the top 10.
It's also not based on a reveal video which will be long forgotten over the ten or more years I hope to enjoy it.
And ultimately, my decision won't be reliant on a relatively anonymous avatar telling me what they think.
I do enjoy following the conversation though. Waiting for orders to open up in Aus.
Quoted from adborto:I see where you are coming from. What good does insulting your customers do?
Imagine if his response was along the lines of this - Thank you for sharing your concerns, we worked really hard on this and will always try our best to do better. We hear what you are saying and sincerely hope that you will still enjoy the game. Or something along those lines - much better than talking about our wives and telling us to shut the hell up.
It appears some would say that since he’s an artist, he gets a pass on being professional and civil.
Quoted from flynnibus:Yeah, but it actually looks like this in the game...
[quoted image]
We do tend to nit pick over the smallest details don’t we ? Doubt pretty much any of the playing public would notice this in real life. However I am just a bit perplexed here. Urethane over molding of 3D printed parts is pretty cheap all things considered, even for low volume production. I’m not sure why they didn’t go there. The BOM is not that much higher. Each mold can get you 25 parts and given the size of those parts he mold should be cost reasonable. Also if you are going to go super cheap ass ABS as it seems the tank is here, why not up the game a little and go with a little bit higher print resolution or some post processing so it’s not so damn obvious.
I still say a lot of those being critical of this game will sing a different tune once they play it.
Quoted from AviRoo:I'm not gonna sugar-coat it. the 3d-printed toys they used are unappealing. I'm a little curious to know how you guys would've done it differently though. I think if they just spent a little more time on it with like.. Solvents... or Epoxy... or even just priming and sanding it. the results probably would've looked nicer. I don't know awhole lot about that stuff though so i'm a little curious.
Id probably do it like pretty much every other manufacturer does. Look at the high quality sculpts in scooby for around the same price range.
Ps- hate to break it to Ice but foo fighters kicks ass and blows bond out of the water. We'll see how it holds up once i get my hands on GTF this weekend at MGC
Quoted from stubborngamer:NOT streaming the game today?
Why give Jack more games online? The 'twitch water' drinking streamer may indirectly trash it if it's not a Stern machine. Plus, promoting Stern's marketing platform seems somewhat unwise!?
Also, some of you are clearly stung by the artist's defensive comment... it's pretty funny, though..
Quoted from Haymaker:Id probably do it like pretty much every other manufacturer does. Look at the high quality sculpts in scooby for around the same price range.
I respect it, If I'm being dearly honest i don't personally believe any pinball machine should have 3d-printed anything in them. especially not one as expensive as GTF. but i do know it is possible to make 3d printed stuff look really wicked hence my question. Alot of smart people in the thread and it peaks my interest.
Quoted from Fatsquatch:It appears some would say that since he’s an artist, he gets a pass on being professional and civil.
I don't think anyone is saying that. I think there are some, including me, that can see how someone in a moment of weakness can F* up because it's something they care so much about. That doesn't make it okay. While an apology seems unlikely, that would make it forgivable for me personally. I can see how others might not feel the same.
There are others earlier in this thread (not me) that are AP fan boys saying F* yes to that comment (not me), but it has nothing to do with him being an artist.
Quoted from PismoArcade:Textbook Franchi. I've learned so much about the pinball industry just from the social media posts that he later deletes.
....uno mas.
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