(Topic ID: 331848)

AP's Galactic Tank Force (GTF!) - Speculation/Hype Thread

By Vitty

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 8 days ago by Ballderdash
  • Topic is favorited by 105 Pinsiders

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There are 7,335 posts in this topic. You are on page 147 of 147.
#7301 60 days ago
Quoted from Scucci_:

The longer post makes sure the ball is hitting the post "head on" and not allowing it to weasel through the lock.

Yup, this is covered in the owners thread

#7302 54 days ago

Does the new code fix most issues? I’m picking one up soon and really into the game.

#7303 53 days ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

Does the new code fix most issues? I’m picking one up soon and really into the game.

Still seemed very buggy, and the flippers have pretty severe fade. Joel streamed it tonight on the Flip n Out stream, and it was one of the best streams of all time due to the sheer number of problems they encountered with the new code and the way they got progressively more defeated as they went. Reset count was 3. Glass off was 1. In two hours.

When Joel started narrating shortcomings at the end into a Mr Microphone with echo, it was hilarious:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxYVc8S-7h-NaTInV3FzCjnZfu59Xvv7oI?si=1XIk4gzwQqEaFA8U

I highly recommend the whole stream, but that clip sums it up. Rayday and Elizabeth from Stern dropped in at various points, too.

#7304 52 days ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:Does the new code fix most issues? I’m picking one up soon and really into the game.

It is an unmitigated mess. It cannot even count the balls correctly. It is better than it was, but better than bad is not good.

#7305 52 days ago

I documented several of these easily repeatable ball count bugs. I uploaded logs and detailed instructions on how to repeat them. AP’s response was the equivalent of “we never noticed it.” The owners club thread is 99% full of people that are in denial.

Once you notice the bugs, you can’t unsee them. Rewatch that stream 5 times before you spend any money on this pin. It might save you $11k.

#7306 52 days ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

Rewatch that stream 5 times before you spend any money on this pin. It might save you $11k.

Well, I bought NIB a year ago and sold last month. $ 2,500 LOSS

Buy something used, not NIB… or just don’t buy at all.

-1
#7307 52 days ago

The worst Gottleib I ever played could at least count the balls correctly.

Pinmonk: thanks for posting that link and zeroing in on that portion. That perfectly sums up GTF ownership.

I don’t care if AP has no staff programmers. It is my understanding that AP has a hired gun to do the programming. I would be embarrassed to admit I was paid to program a game and left it in this state. Ball count is a pretty basic pinball requirement.

#7308 52 days ago

Disappointed to hear there still remains a lot of issues but I’ll be hopeful. I just brought it home and added it as I really like it. I’ll be in for the long haul from here on hoping things get perfected for everyone. I haven’t seen a bug in the few games I’ve played but did notice a ball search at the end of a game then starting the next when a ball was in the lock mech.

#7309 52 days ago
Quoted from 1963BSARGS:

The worst Gottleib I ever played could at least count the balls correctly.
Pinmonk: thanks for posting that link and zeroing in on that portion. That perfectly sums up GTF ownership.
I don’t care if AP has no staff programmers. It is my understanding that AP has a hired gun to do the programming. I would be embarrassed to admit I was paid to program a game and left it in this state. Ball count is a pretty basic pinball requirement.

Not really fair to Joe. He has been the most helpful person about this game on this forum, and he's not even an AP employee. We don't know the terms of his contract labor, whether he is paid by the hour or what. We do know that AP forced his focus off of GTF to work on on porting all the games to the new board set that nobody asked for / wanted. And then they probably made him move over to BBQ.

so blame AP not Joe if they aren't prioritizing helping their GTF customers or commiting enough $$ to coding a modern game (hint probably takes more than 1 person... )

#7310 52 days ago

The more i play it, the more cringe the video assets become.

#7311 52 days ago
Quoted from 1963BSARGS:

Pinmonk: thanks for posting that link and zeroing in on that portion. That perfectly sums up GTF ownership.
I don’t care if AP has no staff programmers. It is my understanding that AP has a hired gun to do the programming. I would be embarrassed to admit I was paid to program a game and left it in this state. Ball count is a pretty basic pinball requirement.

The problem begins and ends with Fix. It's his job to put the right resources in the right places to get the right result. He's shown over and over and over and over and over that he is not capable. Period. Full Stop. No idea why Aimtron is putting up with his clear incompetence. Maybe he's cheap? But if he's lost the company 3x his salary (or more) and destroyed the company's goodwill with users, is that salary a bargain?

Programmers program, and they ALL do limited testing as they work through code, but they ALL need feedback from testing staff to find and fix bugs. The state of GTF clearly shows that there was very limited (any?) internal testing on an ongoing basis, so that doesn't fall on the programmer (is there more than Ferret on this?) but the management for not prioritizing testing and bug reports that the programmer can use to address bugs and rough spots, fixing and polishing the code.

The co-op mode Joel was trying to show off was especially embarrassing as it seemed to not be tested much at all, and the on-screen prompts to start it and tell the user how it would proceed were just...not there. It is frustrating because it seems like they're about 80% of the way to a fun game with GTF. There's a 100% chance of selling a LOT more GTF machines than BOBBQ machines if they spend a couple months polishing GTF. BOBBQ is a lost cause. Of the two, GTF could be a moderate seller, but it HAS to be polished a whole lot more, on a priority basis. With the ball issues and glitches that stop the game, there's no way it will catch fire on route, and home users are going to be veeeeeery frustrated.

The clip from near the end of the stream was so hilariously accurate, it really summed up the whole stream and GTF experience. The frustrating part is - it doesn't have to be that way. AP CAN FIX IT. They just need to move on from FIX leading the company and get someone actually qualified.

#7312 52 days ago
Quoted from Sorokyl:

Not really fair to Joe. He has been the most helpful person about this game on this forum, and he's not even an AP employee. We don't know the terms of his contract labor, whether he is paid by the hour or what. We do know that AP forced his focus off of GTF to work on on porting all the games to the new board set that nobody asked for / wanted. And then they probably made him move over to BBQ.
so blame AP not Joe if they aren't prioritizing helping their GTF customers or commiting enough $$ to coding a modern game (hint probably takes more than 1 person... )

So he wasn’t paid enough or given long enough to program the game to count the balls correctly? That is pretty basic stuff that a game needs to do. I am self-employed, too. If I do shitty work I can’t blame the company paying me for not paying me enough to do the job correctly or claim I wasn’t given enough time. I finish the job correctly and learn not to accept underpaying jobs in the future. It reflects on ME, not the guy who is underpaying me.

#7313 52 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Programmers program, and they ALL do limited testing as they work through code, but they ALL need feedback from testing staff to find and fix bugs. The state of GTF clearly shows that there was very limited (any?) internal testing on an ongoing basis, so that doesn't fall on the programmer (is there more than Ferret on this?) but the management for not prioritizing testing and bug reports that the programmer can use to address bugs and rough spots, fixing and polishing the code.

That is where I have a complete lack of sympathy. I spent a good amount of time documenting the bugs, uploading logs, and even sending in videos to show how to repeat several of the bugs in the prior code that still exist in the new code. I was basically told not to send anymore and that the problems were unique to my machine because AP never noticed them.

#7314 52 days ago
Quoted from 1963BSARGS:

That is where I have a complete lack of sympathy. I spent a good amount of time documenting the bugs, uploading logs, and even sending in videos to show how to repeat several of the bugs in the prior code that still exist in the new code. I was basically told not to send anymore and that the problems were unique to my machine because AP never noticed them.

Bad management. It's as simple as that. Fix is the problem. It all runs downhill from there.

There's no way to know how stretched the employees that are left are, or what resources and support they're missing, etc. ALL of that lands on Fix. Do the job right, or leave.

#7315 52 days ago
Quoted from 1963BSARGS:

That is where I have a complete lack of sympathy. I spent a good amount of time documenting the bugs, uploading logs, and even sending in videos to show how to repeat several of the bugs in the prior code that still exist in the new code. I was basically told not to send anymore and that the problems were unique to my machine because AP never noticed them.

The worst was being told your balls are magnetized as being the cause of all the issues. I wanted to beat somebody when they kept saying that

Like it was the only game that used magnets.....

Then it was the membrane switches, but even with optos they still have issues. So there is obviously something wrong with how they are keeping track of balls. A game shouldn't come to pieces if a ball sneaks out of the lock.

#7316 52 days ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

Well, I bought NIB a year ago and sold last month. $ 2,500 LOSS
Buy something used, not NIB… or just don’t buy at all.

Sorry for your loss, but this train wreck was visible a mile away. Reason numero unobtainable that I never fomo, and never buy til it's out a bit, and I've played it several times.
Just listening to Fix on podcasts, and interviews is enough reason to not buy an AP game.
Pre-Fix: I like their stuff. Valhalla, octoberfest, Houdini, are all fun to me, love Valhalla!
Post-Fix: did he come from Homepin? Are these the same guys in disguise? Is Punny factory, and GTF in fact the same game makers?
You couldn't convince me otherwise at this point. Next he'll come out saying he doesn't build for pinball people

#7317 52 days ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

Disappointed to hear there still remains a lot of issues but I’ll be hopeful. I just brought it home and added it as I really like it.

I’ve been an LE owner and really enjoy my GTF. I only play single player though. I have played many 100s of games - maybe a thousand by now - that have gone smoothly. Super fun. NIB I have made as many tweaks to this machine as GnR NIB. But I agree with the frustrations regarding the company culture and the approach to coding, customer feedback and support. Shockingly the complete opposite of BoF.

#7318 52 days ago

They are missing out on many sales by not fixing and polishing the code . I’m one of them . I love this game ! I love the art , the concept , the live action cheese , and I like the game play . That said I won’t buy one until ( and if ever ) it’s a fully baked game as reliable as any NIB should be . Even then may buy used .

#7319 51 days ago
Quoted from 1963BSARGS:

I documented several of these easily repeatable ball count bugs. I uploaded logs and detailed instructions on how to repeat them. AP’s response was the equivalent of “we never noticed it.” The owners club thread is 99% full of people that are in denial.
Once you notice the bugs, you can’t unsee them. Rewatch that stream 5 times before you spend any money on this pin. It might save you $11k.

I read the owners thread pretty regularly as I have an interest in purchasing it one day and seeing people complaining about the game is mildly amusing, if unfortunate to hear. They rail on the problems pretty consistently, it's definitely not a bunch of people in denial. Owners posting about a laundry list of problems is pretty common.

If they ever actually fix the game to a point where something simple, like playing co-op, wasn't completely broken, then I'm seriously interested, until then, just twiddling my thumbs on the sidelines.

I personally haven't encountered issues with the one near me on location, maybe if I had I'd be much less interested. Aside from the obvious, the consistently horrible dialogue, but the gameplay just puts a smile on my face.

#7320 51 days ago

I have been watching this thread with interest, as I really like the look of this game.

For those of you who know about coding, roughly how long should it take a single knowledgable coder to polish the code and fix all of the outstanding bugs. Hours? Days? Weeks?

Just curious.

#7321 50 days ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

I have been watching this thread with interest, as I really like the look of this game.
For those of you who know about coding, roughly how long should it take a single knowledgable coder to polish the code and fix all of the outstanding bugs. Hours? Days? Weeks?
Just curious.

If JJP, years and counting.

#7322 45 days ago

Baltimore

PXL_20240510_021534518 (resized).jpgPXL_20240510_021534518 (resized).jpg
#7323 45 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Baltimore
[quoted image]

Apple core ….

#7324 44 days ago

Parkour?

#7325 44 days ago

Old Chip and Dale / Donald duck gag - thought you guys would pick up on it

#7326 44 days ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

Old Chip and Dale / Donald duck gag - thought you guys would pick up on it

Man, missed opportunity! Who’s your friend?

1 week later
#7327 36 days ago

Not a good sign for the prospect of this pin holding its value:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Pinball4sale/permalink/8114473478579380/

#7328 36 days ago

What’s the price for those of us that don’t have Facebook?

#7329 36 days ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

I have been watching this thread with interest, as I really like the look of this game.
For those of you who know about coding, roughly how long should it take a single knowledgable coder to polish the code and fix all of the outstanding bugs. Hours? Days? Wee

What’s the price for those of us that don’t have Facebook?

TNT selling a LE for 7200

#7330 36 days ago

This LE at 7200 will lose a whopping 34.5%
I sold my Deluxe last month for 6500 and lost 27.7%
I am glad I GTFO.

#7331 34 days ago

Still having a great time with my game nearly without issues, and not planning to sell, so I'm glad I'm staying in.

#7332 34 days ago

If I find a 6k ish deluxe near me I’m in ! I love this game !

3 weeks later
#7333 10 days ago
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:

If I find a 6k ish deluxe near me I’m in ! I love this game !

I don't think I could even do 6k, I'd think about taking a chance at low 5k though. Confidence in AP products keeps going down when it used to be good. It would be real nice to see them turn things back around to the positive.

Quoted from PinMonk:

Bad management. It's as simple as that. Fix is the problem. It all runs downhill from there.
There's no way to know how stretched the employees that are left are, or what resources and support they're missing, etc. ALL of that lands on Fix. Do the job right, or leave.

Too bad that AP has so many troubles and has for awhile now . I'd agree with PinMonk it sure seems most of the issues belong to the shoulders of Fix. Change in leadership structure could probably only do good, maybe much good.

#7334 8 days ago

I think I've posted here at least a dozen times that I have seen GTF in the wild numerous times since it came out around April of 2023, but had never seen one either working, or functional.
We went to Chattanooga pinball museum last week, and they had an actual GTF up under its own weight, and working. Wow! Only took 18 months to finally get to play one...
We played two games each, and guess what happened? It flaked, and started acting weird. Go figure.
However, I really liked what I did play, and it's absolutely beautiful lit up.
The tech at the museum told us, it doesn't stay running more than a day or two at a time, and they've replaced faulty boards more times than they could count, especially sound boards.
Anyway, it was an awesome game to play, but I doubt I'll ever own one for all those issues.

30537 (resized).jpeg30537 (resized).jpeg
#7335 8 days ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

I think I've posted here at least a dozen times that I have seen GTF in the wild numerous times since it came out around April of 2023, but had never seen one either working, or functional.
We went to Chattanooga pinball museum last week, and they had an actual GTF up under its own weight, and working. Wow! Only took 18 months to finally get to play one...
We played two games each, and guess what happened? It flaked, and started acting weird. Go figure.
However, I really liked what I did play, and it's absolutely beautiful lit up.
The tech at the museum told us, it doesn't stay running more than a day or two at a time, and they've replaced faulty boards more times than they could count, especially sound boards.
Anyway, it was an awesome game to play, but I doubt I'll ever own one for all those issues.
[quoted image]

Imagine AP having put all the R&D time spent on making a tank cabinet into play testing and refining the deluxe model and code. Would’ve had a hit.

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