(Topic ID: 127415)

Anyone use pinsound board with Date East Games ?


By docquest

5 years ago



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  • 70 posts
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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by MJW
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#1 5 years ago

I'm trying to use the pinsound board with my Data East Star Trek and I'm having issues.

After I load the zip file and it finished the conversion I have to turn down the original volume knob by the coin door and then turn it back up to make it work. I believe that's expected the first time you use it.

However, after I power the machine down and then restart it I again have no sound. I have to turn the volume down then up again to make it work. I'm assuming that's not the ways its supposed to work. I also notice that when its running there is sometimes a distracting delay from when a switch is activated to when the sound actually plays. Any other DE users see this?

I'm using the 0005.bin firmware from their website which appears to be the latest.

On some of the other pinsound threads there were comments of issues with Data East games. Anyone know if there are known bugs with Data East games that are waiting for a firmware fix?

I trying contacting the board makers last week for help but they haven't replied to me yet.

#2 5 years ago

I have one on my Tommy. Most of the time it is fine, but it has gone flakey on me at times as you have described, having to mess around with the volume control. It is ok at the moment, but I was certainly worried for a while. I don't have the delay you mention though.

#3 5 years ago

Delay might be introduced by bad cutting off the files beeing used.

About the volume problem: I'd contact pinsound directly. They will help.

#4 5 years ago

Hi,

We are currently working on ST Data East to improve compatibility, we'll send you a firmware to check if everything is allright.

The next firmware will improve volume detection & DE compatibility.

Stay tuned !

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from PinSound:

Hi,
We are currently working on ST Data East to improve compatibility, we'll send you a firmware to check if everything is allright.
The next firmware will improve volume detection & DE compatibility.
Stay tuned !

Thanks for the info. I guess this is good in the sense that others are having similar issues as well and its not just my game or particular pinsound board.

I'll be looking forward to the firmware update. Any approximate time frame you anticipate for release, i.e. days, weeks, or months?

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Endprodukt:

Delay might be introduced by bad cutting off the files beeing used.
About the volume problem: I'd contact pinsound directly. They will help.

I get the problems using the original mix.

#7 5 years ago

The original mix is just cut wave files as well. So there is a chance that there is some silence before the sound. Not sure how much delay is introduced by the pinsound board though. Might be a little bit.

#8 5 years ago

Can only talk for my Tommy - but remember when you turn the machine on, it does take a few minutes to crank up the sound board. If you start the machine, press the start button immediately, then plunge the ball, it can often have no sound for the first bit of the game. It needs time, and I never have to adjust the volume "stick" on startup. Just got off my Tommy with the Who mix and headphones - it makes the machine 200% better than it was (plus the fact that I just stripped all the mylar off it, polished it to an inch of its life, and did a total shop job and LED's). Had to put the sticker on the translite to give credit to Pinsound.
DSC_1398.JPG

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from dendoc:

it makes the machine 200% better than it was

It's like a brand new machine with this board isn't it?! That hifi The Who tracks pumping through. Unreal!

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from dendoc:

Can only talk for my Tommy - but remember when you turn the machine on, it does take a few minutes to crank up the sound board. If you start the machine, press the start button immediately, then plunge the ball, it can often have no sound for the first bit of the game. It needs time, and I never have to adjust the volume "stick" on startup.

Hey Dendoc it was nice meeting you in Texas. You should come up to New England for Pintastic this summer. Its only a short 21 hour flight time.

Anywho, when I start the game it does some pinsound beeps then after a bit it plays pinsound tune then a few more beeps after that. After all the beeps are all done should the sound be ready ? Or do you need to wait even longer? I've waited approx 5 minutes sometimes and still no sound. Sometimes no sound even after trying to reload the mix via adjusting the sound "stick".

The pinsound guys did tell me that they are working on a firmware update to fix data east compatibility issues so hopefully that will straighten thing out. I love the idea of this board and hope I can get it working as intended. The Star Trek game I just got really needs it, way to much scotty and fake spock.

#11 5 years ago

When my Tommy goes flakey, it's always around the volume pot messing up. I was convinced my DE volume pot must have been busted, but it's not. The biggest symptom was simply no sound. Like you are seeing. I would then concentrate on the pot, moving it at different speeds, all around its range, like trying to tune in an old radio. Then suddenly it would kick in and start working again. I find the board to be VERY sensitive to movements of the machine's volume control.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

When my Tommy goes flakey, it's always around the volume pot messing up. I was convinced my DE volume pot must have been busted, but it's not. The biggest symptom was simply no sound. Like you are seeing. I would then concentrate on the pot, moving it at different speeds, all around its range, like trying to tune in an old radio. Then suddenly it would kick in and start working again. I find the board to be VERY sensitive to movements of the machine's volume control.

Exactly how my GNR was until I figured out how touchy the volume pot was. Is there a way for us to convert the pot volume know into something like on a williams game volume control wise? I hate the DE volume control

#13 5 years ago

However, my GNR is now 1000% better than it was from stock.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from ulmpharmd:

Exactly how my GNR was until I figured out how touchy the volume pot was. Is there a way for us to convert the pot volume know into something like on a williams game volume control wise? I hate the DE volume control

You are right about the touchyness of the DE/SYS11 pot, we have fixed it in the next firwmare release to come next week.
Furthermore note when changing sound package on the fly, after the short chime, the preview only last few seconds, you need to increase the volume back to where you want it.

#15 5 years ago

Hey Doc - love to "pop" over for another visit, but probably not this year - more budget concerns than anything else. Good luck with the show, post lot's of stuff on youtube for us.

Hope the new upgrade for the board fixes things. Star Wars in full hifi stereo will be a blast!

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

When my Tommy goes flakey, it's always around the volume pot messing up. I was convinced my DE volume pot must have been busted, but it's not.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I was all set to take the whole volume control apart to replace the pot or clean it to see if that helped. Looks like the pinsound guys have confirmed the volume pot is good but their firmware needs some tweaking to get it to read it as intended. Must be hard to make a single board that's fully compatible across so many systems (data east, sys11, WPC89, WPC DCS, and WPC 95).

#17 5 years ago

Have it on my WWF and its absolutely amazing. Still fine tuning the volumes on all the custom waves I added.

#18 5 years ago

When updating the firmware,will the game have to take the same amount of time to upload the sound files again?

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Must be hard to make a single board that's fully compatible across so many systems (

Amen to that. These guys are doing a great job.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from ulmpharmd:

When updating the firmware,will the game have to take the same amount of time to upload the sound files again?

No, don’t worry, the firmware is the software on the board, the sound package stays on the usb stick.
Updating the firmware only take 30 seconds.

#21 5 years ago

I just put pinsound in my Tommy. Seriously it moves the game way up on the rating scale with original who soundtrack. Amazing enhancement, the stock speakers actually can sound good.

1 month later
#22 5 years ago

I just got the PinSound board from ArcadeShop this week and installed in my Royal Rumble today -- Wow! What an incredible boost in audio quality! Even just using the standard audio clips, it sounds like going from a crystal AM radio to a Bose Home Theater! I'm blown away by how amazing it sounds on the same exact speakers the factory board was using.

Haven't played many games on it yet, but so far I've not noticed any lag and actually it sounds like it's layering the various clips and music better than the original board (which would sometimes not play a voice sample if too many FX were happening on top of the music.)

Excited to start building custom sounds to replace the wrestler themes with their real music, and insert the classic Royal Rumble music in there!

1 month later
#23 5 years ago

Okay. I have almost the exact same symptoms on my DE Hook, except I've never gotten the sound to work. Like others I also have a flakey annoying potentiometer.

Any chance this is sorted yet?

Quoted from docquest:

I was thinking the exact same thing. I was all set to take the whole volume control apart to replace the pot or clean it to see if that helped. Looks like the pinsound guys have confirmed the volume pot is good but their firmware needs some tweaking to get it to read it as intended. Must be hard to make a single board that's fully compatible across so many systems (data east, sys11, WPC89, WPC DCS, and WPC 95).

#24 5 years ago

Last I heard the update was being tested. Dunno what sort of dev cycle they're doing, my guess is some time this year.

#25 5 years ago

My Tommy is working perfectly on latest beta. If you contact them they will send you the update.

#26 5 years ago

Thanks guys. I guess I'll try the beta firmware, though I feel like I should wait for the all-clear from pinsound support.

I'm thinking of trying to replace the volume potentiometer just to rule that out. Is there any reason I can't replace my DE pot a system 11 pot? It just happens to be what I have lying around.

Thanks

#27 5 years ago

My pot was also very clunky with the volume so i also thought it was the cause of the problem. However just switching to the beta firmware fixed the problem so I don't think the pot has anything to do with it.

#28 5 years ago

Updated to 006 --thanks doc!

Unfortunately it's not totally working yet. It will work for a little while then start clicking while playing garbled versions of the sounds, then all of a sudden it will try to catch up (playing some old sounds), work perfectly for a while and then get garbled again. I should probably create a .psrec file to see if I can figure out if there's something specific missing...

Anyway, I'm super eager to get this working, because when it does WOW! It sounds awesome. Adjusting the treble, bass, and levels of the cab and head independently, coupled with the stereo setup of the DE makes it sound really stellar. It's like I replaced the speakers, too.

So close!!

#29 5 years ago

Hopefully the official firmware update will be released soon.

Another thing to check would be the 12 volts on your system. If your 12v is low it might work with the original sound board but might too low for the pinsound board. I think one of the other threads mentioned at least 10.5v is needed to run the pinsound board.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Another thing to check would be the 12 volts on your system. If your 12v is low it might work with the original sound board but might too low for the pinsound board. I think one of the other threads mentioned at least 10.5v is needed to run the pinsound board.

This.

This is my issue, but haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. Hopefully this week.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackjacker:

This.
This is my issue, but haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. Hopefully this week.

I recently got a Diner and the game worked fine but when I tried the pinsound board in it there was no sound. It turns out the 12 volts was just a little too low. It wasn't so low that the original sound card wouldn't work but it was low enough to keep the pinsound board from running.

I put an Xpin power supply board in there and its working fine now. I love that the board is flexible enough to work in so many different games DE, Sys11, WPC, etc. Those french guys are smart.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

I put an Xpin power supply board in there and its working fine now.

Yeah mine won't work with either the X-Pin PS or the original DE PS. With the X-Pin, I measure ~11.2 volts in attract mode, and it dips below 9.8 when coils fire during game play. Slightly lower readings for both with the DE PS installed.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackjacker:

Yeah mine won't work with either the X-Pin PS or the original DE PS. With the X-Pin, I measure ~11.2 volts in attract mode, and it dips below 9.8 when coils fire during game play. Slightly lower #'s for both with the DE PS installed.

I believe there was an issue with the xpin DE power supply that has been fixed in the latest version. Try contacting Brett at xpin I think it involved removing a component and soldering a jumper in its place.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

I believe there was an issue with the xpin DE power supply that has been fixed in the latest version. Try contacting Brett at xpin I think it involved removing a component and soldering a jumper in its place.

Yep. Been there, done that.

#35 5 years ago

Blackjacker, I just went looking for the post regarding the xpin DE power supply mod and it looks like it was you who had the issue. Did the fix not work long term?

#36 5 years ago

Forgive the stupid question: what points should I use to test the 12v? I tested the unregulated +/-12v and read 27v so the problem would have to be on the other side of the regulator.

Thanks!

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Blackjacker, I just went looking for the post regarding the xpin DE power supply mod and it looks like it was you who had the issue. Did the fix not work long term?

Nope. I thought it had, as I initially thought I was only seeing the problem when the flippers (or any single coil) fired. But as I was working on the PinSound mix and played farther into the game and hit multiball, I noticed the power drop out when multiple coils fired, and every now and then when a single flipper or sling would fire.

So replacing the voltage regulator with a jumper kept the voltage up so that I didn't see it drop immediately when I was testing by firing the flipper(s), but it was still happening, just not every time. Drop three balls into the pop bumper area, though, and all sound goes.

#38 5 years ago

Also is there any chance this is from a bad WAV file? There's two different sets of instructions out there (one says use a zip the other says to make folders under audio filled with WAVs) and neither indicates what sampling rate is needed (I assume 44100Hz) or if stereo/mono makes a difference.

#39 5 years ago

On the pinsound board there is a connector, CN2 for DE games, that has +12v, +5v and ground, the pins are labeled on the board. I would try measuring it there.

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackjacker:

Nope. I thought it had, as I initially thought I was only seeing the problem when the flippers (or any single coil) fired. But as I was working on the PinSound mix and played farther into the game and hit multiball, I noticed the power drop out when multiple coils fired, and every now and then when a single flipper or sling would fire.
So replacing the voltage regulator with a jumper kept the voltage up so that I didn't see it drop immediately when I was testing by firing the flipper(s), but it was still happening, just not every time. Drop three balls into the pop bumper area, though, and all sound goes.

You could try powering the pinsound board via an external 12v wall wart type of supply as a way to debug that its definitely the 12v causing the problem.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Also is there any chance this is from a bad WAV file? There's two different sets of instructions out there (one says use a zip the other says to make folders under audio filled with WAVs) and neither indicates what sampling rate is needed (I assume 44100Hz) or if stereo/mono makes a difference.

I think the zip file is only used once when you download the sound mix from the pinsound community forums area. When you put the zip in your USB drive it then converts them all to the wav files and puts them on your USB drive. It takes a LONG time to do it. Its faster to unzip it yourself. The files are in the *.ogg format and you then convert them to wav using the free tool that recommend (freac). When i made new music/sound clips I used wav format, 44100 sampling rate, and stereo.

#42 5 years ago

Nicolas sent me an updated one that works better but still not working in game. I've determined it's a low voltage issue.

Works consistently in attract mode and in menus. I think it's when the Left/Right relay (AC relay on System 11) switches to coils. I'm measuring 10.9V at the board but when it switches from flashers to coils it drops to 10v.

I thought it might have something to do with my missing knocker (look what I have instead!) but sadly unplugging it didn't make any difference at all. image.jpg

#43 5 years ago

Okay, I've read the stock DE power supply "rebuild guide" from the other thread and I'm not super sure this is the road I want to go down. On the flip side it seems I'd need to wire up a 12v, 8A p/s (bridging ground, of course) if I want a bit of a kludge to get me running for the time being.

Is there a recommended aftermarket DE p/s? k's arcade maybe?

https://ksarcade.net/new-replacement-power-supply-for-data-east-520-5047-00.html

Thanks!

#44 5 years ago

I solved every single problem in my Tommy, sound and DMD alike, with a new XPin power supply board.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

You could try powering the pinsound board via an external 12v wall wart type of supply as a way to debug that its definitely the 12v causing the problem.

Do I /need/ an 8amp wall wart power supply or can I get by with less? Looks like the stock DE p/s supplies 12v @ 4A; since the grounds will be tied together I don't want to make an even bigger problem. I'm just trying to do something_ as a stop gap until GPE is back from vacation so I can try recapping and replacing the BR.

Is there anyone running on a stock DE machine that didn't have a replacement power supply or a fresh rebuild?

Thanks

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Do I /need/ an 8amp wall wart power supply or can I get by with less? Looks like the stock DE p/s supplies 12v @ 4A; since the grounds will be tied together I don't want to make an even bigger problem. I'm just trying to do something_ as a stop gap until GPE is back from vacation so I can try recapping and replacing the BR.
Is there anyone running on a stock DE machine that didn't have a replacement power supply or a fresh rebuild?
Thanks

When i had the pinsound board in my DE Trek I was using the stock power supply and it worked fine. Right now, I have the pinsound board in my Diner. When I get home tonight I'll put the pinsound back in Trek and see what the 12v line is running at. I'll also measure the 12v with the stock supply.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

When i had the pinsound board in my DE Trek I was using the stock power supply and it worked fine. Right now, I have the pinsound board in my Diner. When I get home tonight I'll put the pinsound back in Trek and see what the 12v line is running at. I'll also measure the 12v with the stock supply.

That'd be cool. Thank you.

I re-read the measurements again this morning was was reading 11.45V in attract, but 10.3-10.4V when the A/C relay switches to the coil side. This makes a lot of sense as to why the audio would kick back in certain times of the game after the relay probably switched back to Flashers, and worked consistently at the end of the game.

My solution was a 12V @ 6A power supply I found in my basement apparently made for indoor use of automotive accessories via a cigarette lighter adapter. I cut that garbage off, extended the wires, and wired it to the Pinsound board. I did so by replacing the 12V gray/white on the IDC with the new 12V line, and adding the ground to the board through a ground pin on an otherwise unused header on the pinsound board.

Photo Aug 10, 10 33 17 AM.jpg

I was hoping to just plug the thing into my service outlet, but being a re-import, of course it was missing (anyone have a source for a replacement?)

I'm not sure if there are any negative consequences to the board having 12V power before the machine is fully on, or if it's worse to have 5V but not 12V... I'll need to wire this thing into the switched side of the power switch. That or rebuild the power supply when Great Plains Electronics is back from vacation. I'm on the fence about that last part. Leaving this thing in there is pretty damn appealing. It was quick and free.

#48 5 years ago

350 bucks for this board... do you hear a BIG difference with it?

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

350 bucks for this board... do you hear a BIG difference with it?

The improvement in the sound quality is really surprising. I didn't expect to hear such a noticeable difference in the quality. Perhaps you could get the same from separate amps and adjustable crossovers..?

That's not where the value is, though: IF you find the original music grating or annoying, the difference is enormous. You can change the music and sound effects. If you put multiple files in the same directory, it will choose one at random every time it plays. This means in games like Hook that are constantly screaming BATARANG! or crowing like a rooster, you can put multiple, different sounds in those directories to not only have something less grating, but also some variety...

Very, VERY, cool.

As for price? I don't know. Sitting at $340 it's between a P-ROC ($325) and a ColorDMD ($400)

It costs more than a P-ROC, but for an end user, it's immeasurably less work for changing only the sounds. Most folks can't and won't reprogram their game from scratch, so that isn't a fair comparison, but that's my knee-jerk comparison. The P-ROC would let me change anything and everything, and with the PinSound, it feels a little funny for me to not be totally sure where the sound is actually played (some games use the same sound effects in lots of places).

It costs less than a ColorDMD, and where as I love the idea of the color dots, in practice, I don't spend much time looking up, so the sound improvement is probably more valuable to me. I guess it depends on the game for that one.

The Pinsound is a slam dunk if you are 100% happy with a game's rules, but not the sounds. Relative to what some people pay for their machines and accessories, the price is far from outrageous. Putting it in a low-end Data East machine does feel absurd, but do what makes you happy.

#50 5 years ago

Thanks for the info, never heard of it till this post.. then looked into it. I guess if I had a data east that was up there like Guns and Roses, I could see it, but my LW3 cost 975 bucks, so I do not think it would be worth it for me, I put new speakers in the head and a powered sub on the floor, it rocks for sure.

Thanks again for the info, it was just a product I knew nothing about.

Steve

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