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(Topic ID: 143414)

Anyone update the speakers on their MMR?

By cleland

4 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 115 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Westsiderkg
  • Topic is favorited by 59 Pinsiders


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There are 115 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 2 years ago

If I had to guess, since AFMr used 2 way backbox speakers from the beginning, I'd assume CGC just equalized it better. I hope that maybe it will be addressed in an update someday, or even better, just make it user adjustable. But, it's not game breaking, especially once the speakers are upgraded. The stockers really are trash, but they do the job.

#102 2 years ago
Quoted from Mokthemagicman:

I also put part of this post on the MMr Mods page:
This should be a "must do" change on EVERYBODY'S MMr!
Everyone has been complaining about how muffeled the voices are, get drowned out, and how low they sound when compared to a classic MM machine. When I received my MMr I also noticed that the voices were getting drowned out from the music. I read about people swapping out the cheap "Made in China" (written on back) speakers. They lack a real tweater and run at a 86db sensitivity. I took advice from fellow pinsider Nosro and upgraded the speakers with Kicker 40CS54 that has 90db sensitivity. He said that the old cheap speaker was only a "mid-range driver that doesn't even have a whizzer (which is the inexpensive way to get some treble compared to a dedicated tweeter). This is why voices sound muffled."
Interesting right? So I took the plunge and decied to try em out.

First I must say that the speakers install perfectly into this machine. It almost feels like they were "supposed" to be the correct speakers installed into an MMr. They fit into the circular frame lip like a glove. A few solder here and there to the wires and boom. New speakers and WOW what a HUGE difference! Let me see if I can properly explain the quality increase in sound that will make sense in word form, without you actually hearing it.
First off when I turned on the machine and started a game I was instantly blown away with how the King's voice was much, MUCH louder, clearer, and cleaner. It sounded very separated from the music and not "mushed together" in a muddy way that the old cheap stock speakers sounded. So really the problem wasn't the software not having an option to turn down the music. It was always an issue with the speakers not being able to reach the proper pitch and sound sensitivity to make it sound they way it should. This is really too bad. So an update to the software for adjusting the sound isn't the answer. Upgrading the speakers is! I guess the added 3db makes a huge difference.
As I played I also could hear a distinct separation of music instruments such as the snare drums and horns. They definitely sounded sharper and higher resolution. The bass was greatly improved and increased too, noticably when you lose a ball and the scores get added up. Such a distinct difference! Another cool thing that really stood out was a certain sound effect. When you chop off the Dragon's Head the sound of the slash "Shhhhink" sound was at a higher and clearer pitch. It was so much louder that it actually made me look up at the DMD screen and take notice. Not so loud that it hurt my ears or anything. It just was VERY noticeable, when before it just kinda got lost and muffeled when squished with the music like all the other background sounds did (or used to before the upgrade).
Overall, the swap out with the Kicker speakers turned out awesome and I am very happy with it. As I said, this really is a MUST for any MMr owner. It's a shame that the creators didn't put higher quality speakers into this machine because it really needs and deserves them. I feel bad for any MMr owner that has NOT made this update to their machine yet and I think they are missing out on such a great improvement to their machine. If you are not thrilled with the quality sound, music and get frustrated that you can't hear the call outs or the funny lines from all the various characters in the game then do yourself a favor and make this upgrade a priority to your MMr machine. You will love it! At least I do.
Here is a link to my $59 Kicker upgrade if you want em:

Just to be clear, these bad boys do not require an amp? Plug and play 'so to speak'?

#103 2 years ago

The answer is to increase the callout volume within software. I'm sure the new speakers are helpful, but a simple firmware update would satisfy most. Wouldn't take CGC very long to do it, a few minutes if they wanted to increase levels across the board for all callouts. Not sure why they don't.

#104 2 years ago

Will those Kickers fit in a Stern?

#105 2 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The answer is to increase the callout volume within software. I'm sure the new speakers are helpful, but a simple firmware update would satisfy most. Wouldn't take CGC very long to do it, a few minutes if they wanted to increase levels across the board for all callouts. Not sure why they don't.

A few months ago I've asked that specific question to Doug S., and he said it is on their to-do list, but at the time they were swamped preparing for the AFMr release. Hopefully an update is coming soon, but another request or two from other Pinsiders may help it move up their priority list......

#106 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_M:

gunstarhero Interesting that the bottom of your cabinet is painted; first once I've noticed like that.
I agree- new speakers aren't an amazing upgrade but the improvement is good enough to make it worth it. Which makes we wonder about AFMr since the factory sound out of that is incredible- Does AFMr use a different type of on-board amp or is the audio just done in a higher quality format that MMr?

i was told by CGC that everything is the same.

#107 2 years ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

The answer is to increase the callout volume within software. I'm sure the new speakers are helpful, but a simple firmware update would satisfy most.

No amount of software can compensate for the lack of a tweeter. Those bargain basement Chinese paper cone midrange speakers simply can't reproduce the frequency range of WPC-95 music, voices, etc.

#108 2 years ago

The stock speakers are lacking for sure. My point was turning up the base volume on the callouts would satisfy most people. It made a big difference for me.

#109 2 years ago

PPS seem to have no interest in fixing the call outs. They knew about the issue a year ago and went to more effort to stop a community fix than it would have taken to fix the problem themselves. Then they said a fix would come and we got nothing. So don't hold your breath.

1 week later
#110 2 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

A few months ago I've asked that specific question to Doug S., and he said it is on their to-do list, but at the time they were swamped preparing for the AFMr release. Hopefully an update is coming soon, but another request or two from other Pinsiders may help it move up their priority list......

I submitted it a support ticket on it previously as well.

1 week later
#111 2 years ago

Hi everyone...

I just finished up my MMR speaker upgrades. Thank you all for the great information here. It wasn't that hard but I took my time to create an entire backbox speaker panel replacement/upgrade and to evaluate several speakers. See the attached photo of my finished product. I also have WAV files of captured sounds from various speakers in case anyone wants to listen to the speaker differences.

Ultimately I went with:
a) Cabinet speaker GMI-2506 $14 link »)

b) Backbox speakers Polk DB521 $61 link »)

c) Gold Williams logo panel from Marco
d) Misc speaker panel parts so that only the Screen/DMD is transferred from the original panel to the new

My notes:
01) The cabinet speaker upgrade is by far the best bang for the buck. It's cheap and easy to install and really improves overall sound (at any level). There's also a Pyle 6.5 woofer mentioned in this thread.
02) If you don't care about volume over 12, the original backbox speakers are fine. At 12+ these speakers start to distort and quickly become unlistenable.
03) With my setup, I find volume 12 to be full, clear and nothing harsh or distorted or too loud. Huge improvement vs stock speakers.
04) The Polks are better than the originals and the Rockfords, but at $60 that's roughly the same cost as the Flipper Fidelity 5" 8ohm direct replacements (I have not listened to them however).
05) The Polks are smooth, have a gold woofer, slightly adjustable tweeter and handle any volume with ease. The DB521's are the old model, the newer model has similar specs but without the gold color. I used a sharpie to blackout the silver on the tweeter.
06) The Rockfords look nice and are cheap. Slight install hassle with some dremeling but I found them harsh/unbalanced. They did handle more volume. Note that I did sharpie on my woofer to make a nice gold look.
07) No speaker fixes the callout volume, this is a problem in the sound processing engine.
08) Making your own panel wiring with molex connector is not that hard. You can preserve you original speakers/wiring. Contact me if you need one.
09) My MMR (#341) has a lot of buzz with the glass on. The glass is extremely tight and any pressure seems to create annoying "sticky" noises of what I think is the glue tape used on the side rails. I'm hoping this abates with time (I don't have a solution).
10) I have a connector for the "Audio Out" connector on the controller and hope to post info soon for those who want a "line-out" audio solution (for external amps/subs/headphones).
11) If you want a Gold Williams logo panel, get it from Marco. AVOID the "repro's", they are likely warped and not as black. Yes, the original MMR speaker panel appears to be a repro. I can put the 2 side-by-side if desired.

I'll update this post I remember more. I do have more photos of both the original backbox panel and my new one.


3 months later
#112 2 years ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

Pyle PLG64 link »

I replaced my original woofer with the one above thanks to the recommendations here and I'm happy with the difference, my original woofer was terrible and had a crackling sound and distortion. The new speaker has much clearer and better quality sound, now it sounds like it should have from the factory. It's not a big booming bass sound, for that you will need a proper sub, but it does get rid of the crap that was produced by the original speaker.

3 months later
#113 2 years ago

The initial thread was about original game.
Could the sound be improved I mean significantly or is it good like that? If yes, which hardware?
All the sound package is awesome on this game so it deserves better hardware imho

7 months later
#114 1 year ago
Quoted from nosro:

In case anyone needs a "for dummies" (no disrespect intended) version, here's a wiring diagram to convert from parallel to series so that you can use any standard car audio 4 ohm (or lower) speaker.
In this version, I recommend crimp-on connectors. Solder is certainly the best way to go, but I am so lazy that I would rather crimp some stuff than pull out the soldering iron. Crimping on some connectors certainly makes it more reversible and crimps have never let me down with speaker upgrades in a home environment. For any crimp newbies, you will want red colored ones as these are the best for the very thin gauge wires in MMr. If you choose to crimp, please get a proper ratcheting tool like the one shown in the diagram or one of these on Amazon: link » link »
[quoted image]
You can even experiment with plugging the speakers into the gray-orange wire instead of the gray-red wire. If you choose the gray-orange wire, you will get some amount of bass removal (filtering) whereas the gray-red wire has no bass filtering. You might want some bass filtering if you feel you have too much bass or if you have a backbox rattle that you want to tame.
If any of this seems too complex, there's no shame in that. Just buy the excellent MMr speaker upgrade kit from Pinball Pro and play more pinball with the time you saved.

Greetings Programs,

I figured I would put up my experience with upgrading my MMR speakers and provide thoughts\feedback and have a question or two for the audio\electrical experts to just make sure I did it right as one set of instructions have something specific about keeping the BLACK\GRAY wires connected while the above post doesn’t reference this and that is the one I followed. Before I begin, I just like to thank everyone for all the feedback and helpful information as I am far from an expert at electrical work but slowly but surely getting better.

Got my MMR a week ago and after reading this thread beforehand, I was skeptical if this would be THAT MUCH better as well as I was concerned with re-wiring everything. I also am very interested in the XL Display that might eventually come out and that comes with new speakers (whether they are upgraded or not, no one knows or has mentioned this). However I would ass\u\me that if it does come out, that they would just have you unplug the current Molex that goes to the board so modifying the setup after this connection, shouldn’t be an issue, so I was sold on trying this out.

As mentioned, I followed the amazing instructions above. I bought the crimping tool and a kit that had all the crimps connectors needed and purchased a set of 5.25 4 ohm Kickers, not the same as the ones referenced so far but perhaps the newer model? I first started with cutting the three wires from the Molex (RED\GRAY, ORG\GRAY & BLACK\GRAY) BEFORE the connector, so that the wire coming from the board still has the Molex connector. I then put female bullet connectors on each of them. I then un-soldered the wires from the speaker terminals and cut all the zip ties. I had to loosen the bottom two screws from the DMD display in order to get these wires out to be able to cut the zip ties. I then took out all the extra wiring that were attached to the speaker terminals and left the green ground cord of course. Next I used some of this existing wire that I just removed to make the connections from the new speakers back to the female connectors. So I took two wires and crimped on male bullet connectors on one end and spade connectors on the other to connect to the speakers. These wires would connect the RED\GRAY wire (female bullet) to the Left Speaker + (spade connector) and the other wire would connect the GRAY\BLANK wire (female bullet) to the Right Speaker - (spade connector). All that was left was to use another existing removed wire and crimp on two spade connectors and connect the Left Speak - to the Right Speaker +. That was it, WOW that wasn’t too hard.

So I finished cleaning things up (re-zip tying the wires to the existing green ground wires, I did not do anything to the green wires) put the zip tied wires back underneath the DMD on the bottom and secured the DMD back. I secured the speakers in place and I was ready to test.

WOW, I definitely could notice a difference and you have to hear it, to really appreciate and notice it. The voices are a lot clearer and cleaner and more distinct. I can confirm that you can now hear sounds a lot clearer (drawbridge chain when it lowers, the slash from when the dragon’s head gets cut off, etc.). It clears everything up but as others have said, there isn’t much thump\bass, even though before it wasn’t overwhelming and perhaps the muddy sounds make it seem like there was more bass than there really was. I originally had my volume at 8 or so and had to raise it to around 14 to be at about the same level as before. The only other random thing is sometimes the King’s hechmen’s call outs are lower but there is no rhyme or reason to it. One time the Duke of Bourban was low but the next time he came up it was at the same level as the other call outs, again no set pattern when this happens.

So the question I have is in reference to all the posts where everyone states they kept the two BLACK\GRAY wires connected that were originally connected to the Left Speaker, see post below:

Quoted from yancy:

the 2 spare GRA-BLK wires (originally connected to L- ) remain disconnected.

I should clarify, current is still flowing through these wires back to the board, they're just not connected to the left speaker anymore.

I didn’t do any of this and mine appears to be working as it should or did I do something wrong and am I missing out on anything? It seems those that didn’t do this and had issues, no sound was present, so I ass\u\me that the way I did it was different from theirs and since mine works, it was installed right? Thanks for any help on this.

My next step was to replace the cabinet speaker. I didn’t want to have to remove that mounting board that seems to be required if you go to an 8” or larger speaker, so I just went with an inexpensive Pyle 6.5 speaker that was 4 ohms (which is ok since the cabinet speaker, or at least mine, had 4 ohms on it). I wasn’t looking for a huge improvement, just more consistency that stock. It was an easy swap since it was the same size as the stock and no issues on troll clearance. I used the same crimping kit and just cut the existing wires connected to the stock speaker and crimped on spade connectors and easily enough just un-mounted the stock speaker and put the new one in it’s place and Voila. The difference is ever so slight, not as dramatic and noticeable as the back box speakers but for $16, I figured why not.

The last modification I did was after I had everything installed. I noticed I could slightly see some of the silver logo on the back box speakers, through the black grills. While it wasn’t really bad, I figured it was Sharpie to the rescue. I sharpied the logos as well as the silver ring around the tweeter (the logo on the actual speakers took a couple of coats, I guess due to material) and now I can’t see anything and it looks more stock now.

Anyway, that was my adventure and I know this was an extremely long post and sorry to resurrect and old thread, but as you can tell I am kind of OCD and figured this might help anyone else who might be on the fence about this like I was. All total, I spent $111.25 which I had leftover gift cards from Christmas and my birthday so really no cost to me. Below are all the items I bought and used and they are not affiliate links in case you are wondering, the soldering iron I already had, and was a portable butane Harbor Freight one ($19) that I use when I can’t sit down and use my Hakko. I probably could have saved a little by just buying 8 ohm replacement speakers (Fidelity or PinballPro) but there have been times where having a crimping set would have helped me out (I like to fix\mod other things like consoles and other electronics), so that’s another reason I figured I would try this.

Hope this helps and take care everyone:

$21.38 - Crimp Tool : link »
$18.99 - Crimp Connector Kit: link »
$54.43 - 5.25 Kicker 43DCS504 D-Series Speakers: link »
$16.45 - 6.5 Pyle Mid Bass Woofer: link »

$111.25 Total

1 year later
#115 4 months ago

Guys...what speaker gauge wire is needed?

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