I was thinking of getting these cheap but high rated speakers. Boss Audio 4 way and 300 watt.
They have over 93db sensitivity as well. http://amzn.to/2bGw9H3
I wonder how they compare?

Wow. You can hear the snare pretty clearly on stock speakers in a '97MM. Those must have been really really crappy speakers in the remakes. They actually look like the stock Stern 4" speakers.. probably come from the same Cheapest Speakers In the World factory over in China. Does it even have a rubber surround or paper all the way to the frame?

A shame, since not every MMR owner will replace the speakers... the remake's better-fidelity sound in those games will be wasted.

These are not the stock Stern speakers which are 4". The Stern 4" speaker has a better high-frequency response to my ears. Generally, the larger the cone, the better the low-frequency response and the worse the high frequency response.

It's not that these speakers are bad - I think these speakers were an inappropriate choice. Put another way, I don't think the engineer for these cones ever intended to provided any type of high frequency output.

I looked at that as well. I became a little suspicious because 93dB is really good - possibly too good to be true for that price. Some really expensive gear (such as from Infiniti or Polk) aim for high efficiency and don't get 93dB, or only achieve 93dB in their top-of-the-line models.

The other things that I could not determine is how far the tweeter pod protrudes. The spacer in MMr is .75", so you would need to make sure the tweeter pod protrudes no further than that. The Kicker is completely flush, guaranteeing that it will fit behind the grill.

Oh, I know they weren't the same model (4" vs 5.25") .. but they look the same aside from size. Cheap paper cone, no surround, black gloss center. Most of the sound on a Stern comes from the cabinet speaker anyway so not really sure how the 4" models work. I replace them in any Stern I get. TWD sounds soooo much better with new speakers, amps and EQs.

I also put part of this post on the MMr Mods page:

This should be a "must do" change on EVERYBODY'S MMr!

Everyone has been complaining about how muffeled the voices are, get drowned out, and how low they sound when compared to a classic MM machine. When I received my MMr I also noticed that the voices were getting drowned out from the music. I read about people swapping out the cheap "Made in China" (written on back) speakers. They lack a real tweater and run at a 86db sensitivity. I took advice from fellow pinsider Nosro and upgraded the speakers with Kicker 40CS54 that has 90db sensitivity. He said that the old cheap speaker was only a "mid-range driver that doesn't even have a whizzer (which is the inexpensive way to get some treble compared to a dedicated tweeter). This is why voices sound muffled."

Interesting right? So I took the plunge and decied to try em out.

SpeakerUpgrade (resized).JPG
SpeakerUpgrade02 (resized).JPG

First I must say that the speakers install perfectly into this machine. It almost feels like they were "supposed" to be the correct speakers installed into an MMr. They fit into the circular frame lip like a glove. A few solder here and there to the wires and boom. New speakers and WOW what a HUGE difference! Let me see if I can properly explain the quality increase in sound that will make sense in word form, without you actually hearing it.

First off when I turned on the machine and started a game I was instantly blown away with how the King's voice was much, MUCH louder, clearer, and cleaner. It sounded very separated from the music and not "mushed together" in a muddy way that the old cheap stock speakers sounded. So really the problem wasn't the software not having an option to turn down the music. It was always an issue with the speakers not being able to reach the proper pitch and sound sensitivity to make it sound they way it should. This is really too bad. So an update to the software for adjusting the sound isn't the answer. Upgrading the speakers is! I guess the added 3db makes a huge difference.

As I played I also could hear a distinct separation of music instruments such as the snare drums and horns. They definitely sounded sharper and higher resolution. The bass was greatly improved and increased too, noticably when you lose a ball and the scores get added up. Such a distinct difference! Another cool thing that really stood out was a certain sound effect. When you chop off the Dragon's Head the sound of the slash "Shhhhink" sound was at a higher and clearer pitch. It was so much louder that it actually made me look up at the DMD screen and take notice. Not so loud that it hurt my ears or anything. It just was VERY noticeable, when before it just kinda got lost and muffeled when squished with the music like all the other background sounds did (or used to before the upgrade).

Overall, the swap out with the Kicker speakers turned out awesome and I am very happy with it. As I said, this really is a MUST for any MMr owner. It's a shame that the creators didn't put higher quality speakers into this machine because it really needs and deserves them. I feel bad for any MMr owner that has NOT made this update to their machine yet and I think they are missing out on such a great improvement to their machine. If you are not thrilled with the quality sound, music and get frustrated that you can't hear the call outs or the funny lines from all the various characters in the game then do yourself a favor and make this upgrade a priority to your MMr machine. You will love it! At least I do.

http://amzn.to/2bYDTHR
Here is a link to my $59 Kicker upgrade if you want em:

There is also a Rockford Fosgate that should fit fine, but with a slightly lower sensitivity and slightly lower price.

Here is a summary of models tested and confirmed so far:
Kicker 41DSC54 with 90dB/W/m sensitivity https://smile.amazon.com/Kicker-41DSC54-5-25-2-Way-Speaker/dp/B00I2YX1KW/ref=sr_1_5

Pioneer TSG1345R with 86db/W/m sensitivity https://smile.amazon.com/Pioneer-TSG1345R-5-25-Inch-2-Way-Speakers/dp/B00NF5EQHK/ref=sr_1_1

Possibilities that may be worth trying:
Rockford Fosgate R1525X2 with 88dB/W/m sensitivity https://smile.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R1525X2-5-25-Inch-Coaxial/dp/B00BF6HX9E/ref=sr_1_2

I will have to do this upgrade. Is the wiring the same as Yancy has in this thread?

Thanks John

Did this upgrade from Mokthemagicman today and it is definitely worth it! Ordered from amazon and got them in....total of 10 minutes to desolder and resolder speaker wires. Going to add a polk sub as well. I much prefer them to upgrading the cabinet subs.

Thanks. Glad you liked the switch. I agree that a polk sub is also great to have instead of upgrading all of your pins with a sub. Just hook them all up to a Polk.

robbo105 brought up an interesting point in another thread. Flipper Fidelity sells their speakers as components. So, if you want an 8 ohm speaker so that you don't have to change from parallel to series, here it is:
http://flipperfidelity.com/parts-and-diy/speakers/flipper-fidelity-ff4-4-2-way-speaker-484.html

If one buys two of the above speakers, all one would have to do is solder in the new speakers, or just cut off the existing wires and crimp on some female spade connectors and be done.

Personally, I don't mind the wiring change and like the wide variety of car speaker options, but this is a nice lower fuss option.

I know just enough electronics to get myself into trouble and I am currently very confused by the wiring of the speakers in MMr: Wiring speakers in series or in parallel is only a consideration when you have the same audio coming out of both speakers. The audio chip used (if it is in fact a TPA3116) is a 2 channel amp and is designed to power 2 speakers (each 4ohms or greater). So I would have thought you could just pop in lower impedance speakers no problem. But the wiring diagram looks like something very strange is happening as it uses 3 wires to connect to the 2 speakers. Is a stock machine using one channel for a sub and the other channel to drive the 2 backbox speakers?

EDIT: I just looked at the schematic more and that is what's going on. One channel for the sub, the other channel is wired in parallel to the 2 speakers. This makes sense now that if you replace with 4ohm speakers, switch to series wiring. I think someone previously mentioned that doing this mod loses stereo sound, but that's not the case. It's mono already.

Thanks brother!

So the (two on each) speaker wires that are already there can I just re-wire them to this config or do I need to follow it up to the base to locate the four pin connector? If I can just solder some wires to extend them to make them a series I would do that. I will try that.

edited. I just made the change to wire in a series and it seems to be fine. I had to increase the volume to get the same results as before but it still sounds great.

About replacing the 8 ohms speakers by 4ohms in a series, as is, MMR is not in stereo ?

Correct in that it's the same audio coming from both speakers in the backbox.
There are 2 audio channels, but one of the channels goes to the subwoofer.

EDIT: The sound coming from the two speakers is actually slightly different because one of the speakers has a capacitor connected in series (On the original MM, that speaker was a tweeter and I believe the cap is to filter out the low end).

Has anyone replaced there speakers with the Flipper Fidelity speakers? They are about the same price as the kickers, just wondering if they sound as good or better?

I just made the same mistake today and didn't keep the two gray/black wires together. Needless to say my first test of my speaker upgrade was quite disappointing as there was hardly any sound coming from the speakers. Re-read this thread and saw my mistake. Connected the two wires and now the sound is awesome!

Add an inexpensive sub, it will sound great! You can set up 2 pins per sub, great sound, not so expensive.

Sorry to sound like a complete Noob but i have purchased the Kicker speakers as mentioned above, do i just plug and play? or do i have to change the config?

Come on man, just 8 posts ago, nosro put up great instructions and even labeled it "In case anyone needs a 'for dummies' version, here's a wiring diagram"

So I upgraded my MMR tonight. Results were impressive.

I did the Rockford 5.25 speakers and then a Kenwood 8" low profile subwoofer. The speakers in series obviously reduced volume so I had to go higher than normal. Definitely more clear in the highs, never heard the snare in main theme and Merlins Magic is defiantly nicer as well with the twinkling.

To get the sub to fit properly, I had to remove the mount plate and cut a bigger hole (ugh)... cutting a round hole with a scroll saw sucks balls. I'd recommend finding a hole saw if possible. I'll be adding a grill to the bottom of the cabinet to make it nice and tidy.

However upon first fire up and game, holy crap totally worth it. Clears the trolls without issue. My shaker hasn't come yet so that will be installed whenever it actually ships.

I didn't want an external sub and wanted a cleaner more integrated install. I was going to add a plate amp if needed however the stock 50 watts seem to do just fine. The sub is a "wee" but larger than the stock one

IMG_0696 (resized).JPG

IMG_0699 (resized).JPG

Here was stock vs Kenwood

IMG_0700 (resized).JPG

So I've taken this to another level now...

I have a monoblock amp powering the sub now so I have more control over it. I wired up a second 12v 30a power supply for the amp and to power some future led lights as well. The amp trigger is fired off the main MMR power supply so it doesn't turn on without the game on.

I also ordered yet another new sub for it and found a sealed enclosure box that should fit under the trolls. This should clean up the sound considerably, be more effecient and direct more sound out instead of shaking things in the cabinet. I should have that early next week and will report back on how it sounds.

Yup external would have been cheaper but this is a much cooler setup

Wiring is all cleaned up and the new sub box fit. Just barely clears the trolls, but it works. Does not touch the troll brackets and does not interfere with the playfield in any way. Sound is much improved over free air and with the amp I have nice control over the sound.

IMG_0728 (resized).JPG

I'm interested in how you wired the amplifier to switch on with the pinball machine.

So seperate 30a 12v power supply to power amp and anything else i want to add rather than mess with stock stuff, plus the stock power supply isn't powerful enough to run a amplifier.

I used a 12v trigger from the stock converter to the amplifier (remote trigger input), however in order for that to work you need to tie the grounds together. So there is a ground tie between the stock converter and the additional 30a converter. Once those ground are tied then you can mix the 12v signals.

Hope that makes sense.

Just wanted to update that this setup has been working really well. The only rattle i have is actually the channel for the glass on the left side. Haven't figured out the best way to resolve that. The overall sound quality is excellent and having the subwoofer in the enclosure helped the performance and rattles.

Probably going to do the same setup on my other pins as well now.

All that being said, an external sub would definitely be easier

For anyone interested, it looks like those Kicker speakers are on sale at BestBuy right now for $30 with free shipping:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/kicker-5-1-4-coaxial-car-speakers-with-polypropylene-cones-pair-black/7709184.p?skuId=7709184

Question... if I'm not planning to rewire, just replace the speakers using the original leads, can I use a 4 OHM speaker or do I have to use an 8 OHM?

I was planning to use a pair of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007L8BUS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

EDIT: I read a little more (WOW!) and see that there is some simple rewiring needed.

Yes, some rewiring if you use 4 ohm speakers.

Robert

Or just get a pair of Flipper Fidelity FF5 speakers. They are $22.95/each plus shipping, and are 8 Ohms, so no need to change any wiring.

I just bought a pair of kickers, $38. I’ll be installing them along with some rgb speaker lights this week, maybe tonight. This thread has been very informative.

I’m looking for a low profile sub that doesn’t require modifications to the cabinet. I sent an email to FF, but they never responded so I’ll look elsewhere.

I must be doing something wrong because I hooked up my speakers per the diagram in this thread and got nothing. I tripled checked my soldered connections and they were good. I got continuity on the jumper wire.

I hooked it up as follows:

Gray-red to L+
Jumper wire from L- to R+
Blk-gray to R-

Anyone have any thoughts?

I also tested the speakers on a 12v source and got a response so I know they are good.

Thx

EDIT: I got it going. You MUST keep the two gray wires on the left together. I had clipped them and then put heat shrink over them. Once I tied them together, everything worked.

20171024_202110 (resized).jpg

Thoughts on the upgrade? I think I'm going to order a set of these tonight. Thanks. Mike

Not overwhelmingly better, but better. For $40, it's worth it. Mainly what I notice is the highs that I didn't notice before. stock speakers are very flat and dull.

Bingo, my exact experience....definitely worth the $40.....

Just curious as to why no one has tried the Flipper Fidelity FF5 speakers like Pinsider Robbo105 mentioned? You don't have to change any wiring. I'm going to give those a try.

In my case it was instant gratification. I was in Best Buy for something else, saw the Kickers, and next thing I know they were in my shopping cart......

I think the biggest reason is cost. I picked up those Kicker speakers for $30 including shipping and the Flipper Fidelity are over $65 ($20.81 is the cheapest shipping option to CA, ouch).

They're probably about comparable in quality

I upgraded my MMR with Rockford Fosgate speakers yesterday. $40 on Amazon. It sounds better, especially the speech, but it’s not as dramatic as I was expecting. Worth $40 and 30 minutes though.

The color DMD upgrade is still my fav enhancement thus far.

I've pulled out the 4 ohm woofer speaker in my MMr and taken a look at it if it; doesn't look that bad but it is quite small though.

When running test music and sound, I noticed there wasn't much action in the woofer.

A question I have is, if someone has replaced the woofer with another speaker, does it really had that much to the game sounds?

My inclination at present is to change the back box speakers, and leave the cabinet speaker as is.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

Robert

I'll be replacing mine, I ordered a 6.5 woofer along with my new backbox speakers, I figured for an extra $15 why not?

I'm just not sure a larger speaker in the cabinet will result in much better sounds, due to not much sound being sent to that speaker...at least in the test mode.

Also, I'm not too keen on cutting a 6 inch hole in the cabinet bottom.

Robert

Yeah I'm just using the same size and the original hole. It might be lateral move but ehhh, we will see.

A bigger sub with a crossover would have a bigger sound for sure, even with the same hole, but the trill carriage clearance is a concern. That's why I stuck with something stock size just hopefully better performance.

So much upgarde.

backbox

cabinet

Like some have said already, it's not a night and day difference, but it is noticeable, for the $40 and maybe an hour of my time it was well worth it, plus it looks so much more legit than the POS stockers.

To answer your question Robert, I think upgrading the cab speaker was WELL worth it, it really punches up the whole experience, even using the same size speaker so you don't need to modify the cab.

Which 6.5” cabinet speaker did you get?

Pyle PLG64

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PLG64-6-5-Inch-300-Watt-Mid-Bass/dp/B000FMPENQ/ref=sr_1_3

gunstarhero Interesting that the bottom of your cabinet is painted; first once I've noticed like that.

I agree- new speakers aren't an amazing upgrade but the improvement is good enough to make it worth it. Which makes we wonder about AFMr since the factory sound out of that is incredible- Does AFMr use a different type of on-board amp or is the audio just done in a higher quality format that MMr?