(Topic ID: 155266)

Anyone think they can repair this?


By balboarules

3 years ago



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  • 101 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by ChrisHibler
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 101 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 3 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

So I figure I can just transfer everything now that I have the right tools, and will socket every chip.

Keep in mind that sockets are inherently unreliable. Your adding many extra connection points, that should only be done if a chip keeps failing or a part will be upgraded or reused. Some claim the more expensive, high quality sockets add more reliability.

Quoted from balboarules:

Worst case I fail, but I will get a ton of practice.

I'd rather be playing pinball. You will get your chance to use that new soldering iron soon enough, with a collection of 9 pins.

I see K's arcade is out of stock on the $170 Rottendogs, but here is a used WPC, just transfer over your socketed ROM, CPU, and ASIC:

ebay.com link » Williams Bally Wpc Cpu Mpu Pcb Board Works 100 Addams Family Pinball A 12742

Good luck!

#52 3 years ago

Don't feel bad. I have have messed up boards too. At least you tried and learned something.

#53 3 years ago

Consider it "tuition". Everyone has to pay to learn something. Just try to keep the bill as low as possible.

#54 3 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

I have been practicing, changed a cap the other day went perfect, also a bridge on the same board and that went perfect also. I am going to see what I can do transferring the parts to a new board.. Worst case I fail, but I will get a ton of practice.

To be perfectly honest, the outcome of that exercise is going to be two non-working boards and a lot of wasted time and money. You should just give that board away to someone who can and will actually fix it. You will save yourself a lot of frustration and save another board from the dumpster.

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

To be perfectly honest, the outcome of that exercise is going to be two non-working boards and a lot of wasted time and money. You should just give that board away to someone who can and will actually fix it. You will save yourself a lot of frustration and save another board from the dumpster.

Maybe he will surprise you. Let's be positive and give folks a chance to learn from their own mistakes.

#56 3 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Maybe he will surprise you. Let's be positive and give folks a chance to learn from their own mistakes.

You're missing the point. Even someone highly skilled would not attempt to transfer all those parts from one board to another. Encouraging him to do that is bad advice.

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

You're missing the point. Even someone highly skilled would not attempt to transfer all those parts from one board to another. Encouraging him to do that is bad advice.

I'm on a different point than you. He wants to learn. He already has a working board. The only thing he can waste is his own time.

(I wouldn't take it on ...

Marc

#58 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

You should just give that board away to someone who can and will actually fix it.

And yet I wonder: how many boards did those who "fix them" today, screw up back when they were learning how?

Everyone has to start somewhere. That the OP is willing to share his mistake, seek advice, and is otherwise undeterred from learning from it and doggedly pursuing additional practice, speaks well of his potential.

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

I'm on a different point than you. He wants to learn. He already has a working board. The only thing he can waste is his own time.
(I wouldn't take it on ...
Marc

No... He has a board that can be fixed, and he is about to ruin it.

#60 3 years ago

Matt, you installed the adaptor in my RFM a year or so ago, right?

#61 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

No... He has a board that can be fixed, and he is about to ruin it.

I read his posts as:

- He bought an RD board
- The original board is toast
- Be bought a blank board and wants to practice pulling and stuffing the parts on the blank board

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

To be perfectly honest, the outcome of that exercise is going to be two non-working boards and a lot of wasted time and money.

Sadly, this is true.

Some of those 20 year old little caps are not going to survive 2 more heating cycles getting moved.

The traces on that 2bits board are microscopic.

You are not going to be able to see under the ASIC socket to check your work.

-

Please just buy a new, populated board.

#63 3 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Exactly.

And a WPC board is NOT the place to start.

Learn on a Bally Solenoid board or System7 power supply. Something with wide, forgiving traces and regular DIP sockets.

#64 3 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

Matt, you installed the adaptor in my RFM a year or so ago, right?

Yes sir! Steve, if you want some scrap boards to practice on I've got several. Come on over. I'd be happy to give you some tips and share some techniques. I have a couple different types of desoldering equipment we can work with.

#65 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

a WPC board is NOT the place to start

Fair point! My own practice was on other equipment, and then WMS power supplies, before I got confident enough to tackle MPU/Driver work... and even those are pre-WPC era.

To that end the earlier advice for OP to round up junk computer and other boards first is sound. Graduate to the more intricate boards later. Still no real reason he "shouldn't" try to work toward doing so if he really wants to.

Either way one needs to get a feel for the finesse of desoldering, and even soldering. So much "reads" as easy but truly requires a hands-on "feel" that can't be explained, to sense when it's going right - or not.

#66 3 years ago

Ok, majority wins, I just bought that board off EBay that was mentioned by Neal W, I am pulling off the large chip off this board for the replacement. If someone wants to send me an offer for this board I will listen, would rather it be saved by someone who can do it, then for me to destroy it all together.. I will listen to trade offers as well.

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

Yes sir! Steve, if you want some scrap boards to practice on I've got several. Come on over. I'd be happy to give you some tips and share some techniques. I have a couple different types of desoldering equipment we can work with.

I might just take you up on that, besides I would like a few more games on AC/DC.

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from mattosborn:

Yes sir! Steve, if you want some scrap boards to practice on I've got several. Come on over. I'd be happy to give you some tips and share some techniques. I have a couple different types of desoldering equipment we can work with.

What a genuine good guy offer!

OP, my best friend since I was 3 lives next door in Uxbridge. Next time I'm in town, I'd love to pay you a visit!

#69 3 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

I might just take you up on that, besides I would like a few more games on AC/DC.

Hell yeah!

#70 3 years ago

WXforecaster, Please do!! I have had a few pinsiders come over, love to talk pinball, play some games, get feedback on my games.. anytime your in the area please do!

#71 3 years ago

if you want to do the new board, buy new parts. Especially for diodes and resistors it will be cheaper to just buy new than dig the old one out
Buy a new asic socket too..

#72 3 years ago

If the OP sends me full address details via PM I will send a complete set of all NEW parts for his unpopulated board including sockets (and the ASIC socket).

The packs I have include EVERY part you need except the micro, ASIC and EEPROM, but sockets for all of these are included. A new RAM is also included as these are mostly soldered in originally.

This would be posted from Shenzhen China so please allow a few weeks for delivery if you want me to send it.

#73 3 years ago

That'll buff right out

#74 3 years ago

Homepin, WOW, thank you.. That is so very generous of you, I sent you my information. And I have the old board I can use as a guide! Once I finish it, I will give away the damaged board to someone who can fix it for free to pay back for this generous offer.

Thank you so much
Steve

#75 3 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

I have a sys11 board just like this that I marked as "parts only" and have used it to fix 10 other games.

I thought I was the only scavenger that does this kind of stuff . It's great to have a spare transistor or PIA on hand when I have no new ones in one of my various piles .

#76 3 years ago

anything can be fixed

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#77 3 years ago

I think it is just a fuse.

#78 3 years ago

Is this a kit that is available to buy? How much?

Quoted from Homepin:

If the OP sends me full address details via PM I will send a complete set of all NEW parts for his unpopulated board including sockets (and the ASIC socket).
The packs I have include EVERY part you need except the micro, ASIC and EEPROM, but sockets for all of these are included. A new RAM is also included as these are mostly soldered in originally.
This would be posted from Shenzhen China so please allow a few weeks for delivery if you want me to send it.

#79 3 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Is this a kit that is available to buy? How much?

We make them up in batches and have sold about 200 so far. Currently no stock although Johns-Arcade is building up about 10 to sell completed and tested.

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#80 3 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

We make them up in batches and have sold about 200 so far. Currently no stock although Johns-Arcade is building up about 10 to sell completed and tested.

Please let us know when you have kits available and the price.

#81 3 years ago

you can find (our australian) johns arcade here http://www.johns-arcade.com/

#82 3 years ago

Eek desoldering iron or arc welding rod..

#83 3 years ago

Hey guys, I'm warming up my iron.

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In all seriousness though, we all screw up from time to time.

10
#84 3 years ago

You people are so MEAN!! I cannot take it anymore.. I am getting out of the hobby forever and I am never coming back! I am going to start a podcast and call out everyone!

All I can say in my defense, I admitted I personally did it, and did not try to pass the blame off on anyone else, or claim I bought it on Ebay this way..

1 week later
10
#85 3 years ago

I wanted to post a HUGE thank you to Homepin, I got my package today, WOW, there was even a board in there!! I am so thankful he sent this out to me, I wanted to post what I got in the box..

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#86 3 years ago

Oooooh, sexy. How much? Went to the site and it says they don't sell boards right now.

#87 3 years ago

ask http://www.johns-arcade.com/#!bally---williams-replacement-boards/clnhj if he can get some in for you. Johns the man for these homepin kits

#88 3 years ago

I am working on a couple of projects right now, but when I start putting this together, I am going to post progress on this posting.

#89 3 years ago

When I first opened this thread, I saw the picture and thought this was an April Fool's, then when I read it

Quoted from balboarules:

... it was working perfect, wanted to put NVRAM in it, got screwed up royally, it is just these 2 areas ...

I thought of the Seinfeld episode as in you "yada, yada, yada'd" the best part with just a "got screwed up royally".

Not to make the OP feel bad or belabor the issue, but I was genuinely curious what went wrong, as I have been NVRAMing my machines also. I've only done the Whitestar drop-ins so far, and was considering the others that require de-soldering chips. I've just off-boarded the batteries for now, and may stick with that. But was this from trying to heat up all the pads with soldering iron and remove the chip or socket all at once? What is a better option? Am I remembering correctly that you can pull the plastic socket and leave the pins in the board to remove one by one? Some special technique to loose the socket from the pins? Or should the socket be clipped off / cut off and then do the pins one-by-one? What is the right tool to do this, would dremel-disc-cut the pins at the socket be a good technique? Other tool to do it properly? I'm talking about the case where you just have a soldering iron of course.

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

When I first opened this thread, I saw the picture and thought this was an April Fool's, then when I read it

I thought of the Seinfeld episode as in you "yada, yada, yada'd" the best part with just a "got screwed up royally".
Not to make the OP feel bad or belabor the issue, but I was genuinely curious what went wrong, as I have been NVRAMing my machines also. I've only done the Whitestar drop-ins so far, and was considering the others that require de-soldering chips. I've just off-boarded the batteries for now, and may stick with that. But was this from trying to heat up all the pads with soldering iron and remove the chip or socket all at once? What is a better option? Am I remembering correctly that you can pull the plastic socket and leave the pins in the board to remove one by one? Some special technique to loose the socket from the pins? Or should the socket be clipped off / cut off and then do the pins one-by-one? What is the right tool to do this, would dremel-disc-cut the pins at the socket be a good technique? Other tool to do it properly? I'm talking about the case where you just have a soldering iron of course.

Random thoughts on desoldering.............

Hakko FR300 and the right technique can make the 6264 ram fall out of the PCB after desoldering.

1.0MM tip for through hole ICs

Hold the board vertical so you are using pointing the gun in the natural direction (horizontal)

When you touch the iron tip to the solder pad. Give it a moment for the solder to melt all the way through to the top side.

Do NOT rub the hot tip against the solder pad. That is how you lose pads. It is OK to move the through hole lead with the iron tip, but don't rub the hot iron tip against a pad very much or it will fall off.

If you didnt get a hole entirely clean, DO NOT pry the chip out. That is how you lose traces, through hole plating and pads on the top side. Instead use a pen iron to add more fresh solder and then clean the hole out over.

If you have trouble getting a pin to desolder. Add more fresh solder and try again. A halfway cleared out hole will not desolder properly until you fill it back in with fresh solder.

The 5v and ground pads will typically take more time. Leave the iron on those pins a little longer as there is more mass to heat up.

With the proper tool you do not cut out chips first. Cutting out chips and pulling leads one at a time is not ideal in my opinion. You heat the pad up an extra time. You still have to clear out holes. You risk damaging and shorting the component side of the PCB and it takes longer. If your having trouble getting IC's and components, you need to check you technique and your equipment.

Some boards are much more difficult to desolder than others. The WPC MPU is far more delicate than a system 3-7 board. If you pull traces and pads on WMS 3-6, you REALLY had to ham fist it. I sware i could probably pry out a factory soldered in chip with brute force and the pads wouldnt get damaged on a 3-6 board.

TEMPERATURE. Don't be scared of the heat. I work really hot compared to what i see people recommend. Because it is really hot, I work really fast. When desoldering you have to get all the solder to melt before pulling the trigger. That means sometimes heat has to travel through to the topside of the board with large heat sinking trace attached to it. I have my FR300 set hot enough that it can pull a 1.56" header attached to a ground plane on a WMS driver board after a few seconds. I use that same temp on small through hole components and I think my rework is hard to distinguish between factory solder once finished and cleaned.

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

You should not be doing any board work without a desoldering iron.

Guess someone should let the 15 or so games I've fixed without a desoldering iron over the last few years that were all board work know that I did it wrong.

Crap!

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Guess someone should let the 15 or so games I've fixed without a desoldering iron over the last few years that were all board work know that I did it wrong.
Crap!

The point was that a soldering iron can make the process much more difficult than it needs to be, and can also potentially cause pad and trace damage while you're messing around with components for too long with too much heat.

#93 3 years ago

I now have a desoldering gun, I was working with an iron that had too big of a tip and got too hot, I have since purchased the correct equipment, what can I say, we all make mistakes... I have already bought a replacement Rottendog board. I admit it, I screwed it up, and after all these years I should have known better.. but at least I admit it was my bad. I should not have used that iron, but my regular iron died, and I thought I could pull it off.. I have since ordered a temp controlled soldering station and a desoldering gun.

Taxman, your right, it was a mistake on my part, I should have just ordered the correct tools, which I now have, and have done a bunch of other repairs with them, and every other one has been perfect with the correct equipment. I have another CPU someone gave me that has a bunch of acid damage, I will just play with that one a bit, and see what I can take off this one that the other needs...

which one did you get?

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The point was that a soldering iron can make the process much more difficult than it needs to be, and can also potentially cause pad and trace damage while you're messing around with components for too long with too much heat.

which one did you get?

#95 3 years ago

Ok I guess the time has come for the pictures..... I am going to show you the tools I used to royally screw up my board... What you are about to see is the ACTUAL IRON and DE Soldering tool I used/destroyed with.... and then you will see what I am now using, with which I have replaced 2 capacitors, one tip102, and a few other repairs with.. Perhaps these photo's of my ignorance of which I admit, and paid for with a replacement board, will clear things up... Please note that these tools are still here, but will never be used on a board again...

For those of you with weak hearts, please stop reading now, as the below might put you over the top!

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#96 3 years ago

That looks like a 100W iron that you would use for stained glass work....

#97 3 years ago
Quoted from surfsled:

which one did you get?

Hakko FR300 with three different sized tips.

This might also be another viable option: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cheaper-alternative-to-hakko-808fr300

#98 3 years ago

I am VERY happy with the replacements, they work fantastic...

Stained glass? Wow, well it is retired now.

#99 3 years ago

might be able to weld a bridge with that thing !

#100 3 years ago

We all did some damage when we learned how to fix boards. Don't feel bad. It wasn't a cheap lesson, but the best ones rarely are.

As much as I wanted to give that board a try for you, I just didn't think it was a good idea. Even if I could make it work, that many jumpers would be fragile, the board would never be worth anything, and there are probably reasons it wouldn't be safe

What you're doing sounds like a fun project. I've considered building one of these boards myself, I actually have proto CPU blanks for WPC-S and WPC-95 CPUs that I bought from the estate of a WMS PCB designer, and a red proto WPC-89 CPU that I bought from his estate that didn't work - and I fixed!

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