(Topic ID: 155266)

Anyone think they can repair this?

By balboarules

8 years ago


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There are 101 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 8 years ago

This is a CPU board from Demolition man, it was working perfect, wanted to put NVRAM in it, got screwed up royally, it is just these 2 areas above the ASIC chip, Wanted to see if anyone out there thinks they could repair this, and hopefully not at the cost of a full replacement. If you think you can shoot me a PM. the socket in there of course is not working either as you can tell by the bottom of the board. So it would need 2 sockets installed and the traces repaired.

Thanks

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#2 8 years ago

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#3 8 years ago

Wow what we're you using to desolder? Almost every trace looks destroyed. These traces and pads are very small on the wpc games and you must use at a minimum a desoldering gun with a built in vacuum pump.
plus have alot of previous experience. Hope someone can help you but it looks like the board is toast.

#4 8 years ago

No, trashed.

Top picture shows over 40 traces wiped out. Button picture looks like road rash from a motorcycle accident.

Replace.

#5 8 years ago

Certainly not beyond repair, but the time/money it's going to take to run new traces and verify versus the schematic will likely get close to the cost of a new one.

#6 8 years ago

Wow, people are going to join quick on this one. Two beat me in seconds.

You did not do this did you? You have been around too long to all of the sudden decide to do something like this.

#7 8 years ago

While theoretically possible, it would end up costing much more than a replacement board. That's even assuming anybody would be willing to take a crack at it, and has the ability to do a professional repair of that difficulty. Not something I would attempt myself.

#8 8 years ago

I'd say replace the board. Way too much damage has been done. The cost of repair might exceed the cost of a new board.

#9 8 years ago

The board is trashed otherwise, might as well get a proto pcb, put the sockets in, and then start wiring it to the nearest other trace.

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Wow what we're you using to desolder? Almost every trace looks destroyed. These traces and pads are very small on the wpc games and you must use at a minimum a desoldering gun with a built in vacuum pump.
plus have alot of previous experience. Hope someone can help you but it looks like the board is toast.

Desoldering guns are awesome. I'd love one someday. So far I've gotten by using my soldering station (variable heat) and a manual pump style solder sucker and copper desoldering braid.

I'd avoid using the blowtorch in the future. Or whatever happened here.

Sorry, these kind of things suck. Best of luck getting your game back up and running.

#11 8 years ago

Were you using some very old desoldering gun that had the heat way way to high?

#12 8 years ago

Wow, that is amazing.

Yes, it could be fixed, but as others have said, the repair costs would exceed the value of the board.

Cheaper to pony up the $250 for the Rottendog replacement board

#13 8 years ago

if you want to toss the board away, can i get dibs on it?

#14 8 years ago

I now have a desoldering gun, I was working with an iron that had too big of a tip and got too hot, I have since purchased the correct equipment, what can I say, we all make mistakes... I have already bought a replacement Rottendog board. I admit it, I screwed it up, and after all these years I should have known better.. but at least I admit it was my bad. I should not have used that iron, but my regular iron died, and I thought I could pull it off.. I have since ordered a temp controlled soldering station and a desoldering gun.

Taxman, your right, it was a mistake on my part, I should have just ordered the correct tools, which I now have, and have done a bunch of other repairs with them, and every other one has been perfect with the correct equipment. I have another CPU someone gave me that has a bunch of acid damage, I will just play with that one a bit, and see what I can take off this one that the other needs...

Thanks for the input guys, my head is hung low right now..

Steve

#15 8 years ago

That board is shot. Not worth bothering to fix IMO.

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from dudah:

Certainly not beyond repair, but the time/money it's going to take to run new traces and verify versus the schematic will likely get close to the cost of a new one.

yeah, can't tell what the grey is on top of the board.. just stuff to be cleaned or what.

I still want to hear the story on the board.. trying to use a plumbing torch or something??

#17 8 years ago

I wouldn't fix it and I fix everything. That would take 4+ hours for me to fix. As other said, the labor involved makes it much easier to just buy a new board. Now, if it was a few traces or even as many as 10, I would probably fix it.

As it sits, keep it as a parts board. I have a sys11 board just like this that I marked as "parts only" and have used it to fix 10 other games.

#18 8 years ago

Since this board is a lost cause, you could use it to practice on. My solder skills are not great and I go many months not using them, so before every repair I grab a dead board and practice a little just to refresh. (You can also purchase practice kits.)

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

I wouldn't fix it and I fix everything. That would take 4+ hours for me to fix. As other said, the labor involved makes it much easier to just buy a new board. Now, if it was a few traces or even as many as 10, I would probably fix it.
As it sits, keep it as a parts board. I have a sys11 board just like this that I marked as "parts only" and have used it to fix 10 other games.

Trust me, if Snyper thinks it's not worth it, it's not worth it. Haha

#20 8 years ago

Trust me, I got the answers I was expecting, good to have verification..

No torches were used, just an iron that was just too much for this kind of job.

#21 8 years ago

We all live and learn. You're not alone if it is any consolation.

G

#22 8 years ago

It is, and this is not the first thing I ever broke.. But I break a lot less than I used to. Just ordered a blank board, going to do a full swap over as punishment.

#23 8 years ago

I'm pretty sure a 40 watt soldering iron would be the max to use on these PCBs. That board looks like it was roasted with a 100 watt or bigger iron. It ain't in the tip, it's in the power rating of the iron, although a small chisel tip works best for ICs and discretes. Also, it would be best to use a temperature controlled ESD safe iron to work on them boards.

#24 8 years ago

Well no matter what,your a good man for not coming up with some crazy story like your dog did it. Lick your wounds and move on to a new board.
Mike

#25 8 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

It is, and this is not the first thing I ever broke.. But I break a lot less than I used to. Just ordered a blank board, going to do a full swap over as punishment.

At least now you can use the old board for practice.

#26 8 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

Well no matter what,your a good man for not coming up with some crazy story like your dog did it. Lick your wounds and move on to a new board.
Mike

Whoa, I read this reply too quickly as, "My crazy dog licked it and was wounded."

#27 8 years ago

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#28 8 years ago

Thanks guys. I ordered a blank board, so I am going to get a ton of practice swapping that stuff over.. We shall see..

#29 8 years ago

I did not realize you can get a blank CPU board? Where from and how much?

#30 8 years ago

Actually, they are listed on EBay right now for 55.00

ebay.com link: itm

So I figure I can just transfer everything now that I have the right tools, and will socket every chip.

#31 8 years ago

You DIYers will always amaze me. This compared to 250 for a brand new complete board is a no brainer for me.

#32 8 years ago

Fun Fact: You can send PCB's to china and they will scan and make you a 1 to 1 replacement. Costs about $150

#33 8 years ago

At least you made an attempt! I just buy new rd's (2 and counting) as I wouldn't attempt soldering (de) of a board. So I give you---

#34 8 years ago

Oh, I did buy a RD, it is in there now, I just want to try to save this one, so I can have a back up, I am trying to have 1 back up board for each Williams game since I have 4 of them..

You can send boards to China populated and get a replacement? Or just the blank board.

Chuck, I enjoy learning, the more I can do, the more I can fix on my own without the down time of sending out boards or waiting for new ones.. but trust me, I have bought more than my fair share of new boards!!

#35 8 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

I'm pretty sure a 40 watt soldering iron would be the max to use on these PCBs. That board looks like it was roasted with a 100 watt or bigger iron. It ain't in the tip, it's in the power rating of the iron, although a small chisel tip works best for ICs and discretes. Also, it would be best to use a temperature controlled ESD safe iron to work on them boards.

I have one of those now, I did not then.. Lesson cost me 300 bucks so far, the lesson is have the right tools for the right job!

#36 8 years ago

Read Terry's guide. A desoldering iron is nice to have, but not necessary. I have desoldered alphanumeric displays, 40 pin chips, etc. with a soldering iron. The key is temperature control. It's a very delicate balance between melting solder, and not destroying through-hole plates and nearby traces. Too cold is just as dangerous as too hot. 40W and 100W soldering irons are garbage. Wattage (power) has nothing to do with temperature or the melting point of something. It's a gimmick. Get a temperature controlled soldering iron and dial that puppy to 650-675F and you will have no problem with pinball/arcade PCBs. The right tip and tinning it is equally important.

Again, a desoldering iron is a nice tool and a time saver when working in bulk, but a good temperature-controlled soldering iron and a $3 solder-sucker/soldapult works just as well.

#37 8 years ago

I like the new desoldering gun. Makes the job go faster.

#38 8 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Fun Fact: You can send PCB's to china and they will scan and make you a 1 to 1 replacement. Costs about $150

Just a slight violation of copyright laws, though.

#39 8 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

Actually, they are listed on EBay right now for 55.00
ebay.com link
So I figure I can just transfer everything now that I have the right tools, and will socket every chip.

Not within reason...

You are never going to desolder all those parts, especially things like the chips, without damaging them. You going to have to source dozens of various parts that you are going to have to pre buy or wait to replace.

Parts are trimmed to the way they were installed... Your going to go insane trying to work with parts like that.

#40 8 years ago

agreed with everyone else.. I could fix it but wouldnt bother.. its beyond economical repair. cheaper to replace it.

i get it that you learned the hard way and we all did once..

what i dont get is .. why didnt you stop when you saw the damage starting?

#41 8 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

why didnt you stop when you saw the damage starting?

I keep wondering the same thing

#42 8 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Just a slight violation of copyright laws, though.

Very difficult to enforce though. Even Mr. Personality can't throw his weight around to stop the far east stuff like that.

#43 8 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

agreed with everyone else.. I could fix it but wouldnt bother.. its beyond economical repair. cheaper to replace it.
i get it that you learned the hard way and we all did once..
what i dont get is .. why didnt you stop when you saw the damage starting?

Because I also screwed up and worked on both chips, I had no intention of touching the second chip, when I flipped the board over I then realized I was doing 2 separate ones, I did not see how bad the damage was till I removed one of the sockets.. Again, I admit I screwed this one up bad.. I paid to replace it, then I bought the correct tools, and it will never happen again. I have done multiple small repairs in the past and never had this issue, I have done several with the new tools and they have all come out perfect.

What else can I say except my bad?

#44 8 years ago

I know a old guy that will fix it and not break the bank. Pm me and I will buy it on the cheap if you want to sell.

#45 8 years ago

I respect the way you man up and admit the fault too.
De-soldering chips like that is difficult vs. just replacing transistors and such.
If you plan on trying similar repairs in the future, I would do plenty of practice on that trashed board.
At least the practice can help ease the replacement costs.
It helps to add a bit of fresh solder first, then the mix of old and new solder will flow a bit better when you use the de-soldering gun.

#46 8 years ago

This thread is testament to the advantages and merits of a high quality soldering and/or de-soldering gun.
And, practice on a throwaway board, like a modem board or the motherboard from an old PC.

#47 8 years ago

You have to break eggs if you want to make an omelet. Didn't work before, so not really that big of a loss.... wait.

#48 8 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

Read Terry's guide. A desoldering iron is nice to have, but not necessary. I have desoldered alphanumeric displays, 40 pin chips, etc. with a soldering iron. The key is temperature control. It's a very delicate balance between melting solder, and not destroying through-hole plates and nearby traces. Too cold is just as dangerous as too hot. 40W and 100W soldering irons are garbage. Wattage (power) has nothing to do with temperature or the melting point of something. It's a gimmick. Get a temperature controlled soldering iron and dial that puppy to 650-675F and you will have no problem with pinball/arcade PCBs. The right tip and tinning it is equally important.
Again, a desoldering iron is a nice tool and a time saver when working in bulk, but a good temperature-controlled soldering iron and a $3 solder-sucker/soldapult works just as well.

A desoldering iron is *very* useful.

I started out with a desoldering pump, but it didn't last very long.

It took be an hour to desolder a system 80 battery from an MPU, which alsi resulted in some board damage. With a desoldering iron, it took less than 10 minutes with no board damage.

You should not be doing any board work without a desoldering iron.

A desoldering iron also makes quick work of desoldering wires from parts on the playfield (switches solenoids, etc).

#49 8 years ago

I've fixed worse.... Don't use it for soldering practice. Someone can/will fix it. It just takes a lot of time (and skill) to repair something like that. If you want something to practice on I've got a pile of worthless scrap PCBs. Even if you have good equipment, you are going to have to learn how to use it. I've seen some pretty horrific work done by people that just bought a new $300 desoldering rig.

#50 8 years ago

I have been practicing, changed a cap the other day went perfect, also a bridge on the same board and that went perfect also. I am going to see what I can do transferring the parts to a new board.. Worst case I fail, but I will get a ton of practice.

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