You mean things aren't running smoothly since I quit paying attention to this mess? Huh. Who would have ever guessed? Wish someone would have been more prophetic about this stuff, like a year ago. *shrug*
(Topic ID: 45074)
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Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013
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Quoted from CraZ4Pin:You guys need to chill out. This is ridiculous. There is NO OTHER group of professionals that could start a new pinball company from scratch, in a shorter period of time, and with a quality anywhere near that of WOZ. Yes, Jack has underestimated the potential delays (namely, suppliers) but so what. They have a remarkable game on the brink of full production that can potentially revive the hobby we love and you guys look for every little thing to criticize like a bunch of adolescent brats. The doubters have been here since 01/2011 and even with dozens of prototypes now on location and people excited, articles in major publications being written about pinball again, you still criticize and post such hatred of JJP? It's pathetic.
If you bought WOZ and have a problem ... go ask for a refund. Right NOW. You will get it. But you won't, will you? Because you know the game is remarkable and you're only venting your childish frustration that your game didn't show up yesterday. For those that didn't buy WOZ, you're venting your frustration that you didn't buy one. Either way, WAH.
Now THAT is comedy gold at this date. Check your sundial. What year is this? Did I Flux Capacitor back to June 2012?
Quoted from RobT:That's so funny!
I'm literally having a discussion with a friend via text about virtually the same exact thing that I did with my wife regarding a restored AFM. I just broke the news to her earlier this evening.
I hear that AFM is going to be really nice. I am jealous.
Quoted from PW79:Sometimes I think preorder folks have Stockholm Syndrome.
Not all of em, just certain ones.
Man, that is right on. Not many left in that basket, but there is a core group that are still fighting that good fight.
At some point, overly optimistic turns into purposeful omission and misdirection. I would say that we crossed that threshold sometime in Summer 2012.
Quoted from spfxted:had problems inherent in this business.
Name me one other example of this kind of missed promise and so severely blown timeline. And Gene didn't ever give a production schedule promise on BBB, nor move the goal line a million times - before you go with BBB. I love the "problems with this type of business" argument, when the ONLY inexcusable problem is and always has been the poorly executed communications, silly self-imposed timelines, and constant suggestions and predictions that are so commonly blown and reset that no one believes anything said anymore. No one needs to save YouTube videos, because we have all heard it, seen it, and been told it. We sat at Texas Pinball Festival 2012 and were told July, and that there would be a whole line of completed WOZ machines on a wall in 2013. Instead we got 3 with software that prevented even 2 player games, glitchy code, and Jack wasn't even there. Is that a problem "inherent in the business", or a problem with this business? Honest question.
Quoted from spfxted:And you think he's doing this on purpose? Ok...what is going on...you tell me. The whole thing is a scam, machines will NEVER be made. He's taking on all this time and expense just to screw us over. No one EVER misses a deadline because of unforseen problems. What do you think is going on and for what purpose??
I think he started talking from a sales standpoint, and hoped that he bought the best guys in the business and would catch lightning in a bottle. He whipped up a frenzy and sold a lot of machines at more money than we had ever seen necessary to buy a pinball machine at the time. He created buzz like we haven't seen in two decades - to the extent that it even benefitted Stern and boutique manufacturers unknown at the time. He sold. And kept selling. And kept saying the things that sold games. And then got defensive. And then got quiet. And then got realistic. And apparently still doesn't have it ready. Are hiccups with Chinese manufacturers during Chinese New Years "unforeseen problems"? Is 13 months a "missed deadline", or something more severe? Those with maintained patience are admirable. Honestly, I think they are. But the apologists are simply silly now.
Quoted from LTG:Well now if you go back to the beginning, there were things that were said and never happened.
Money up front was going to be put in escrow, it wasn't. Second half of the money came do a heck of a lot sooner.
Etc. Etc.
Go back over RGP from start to finish and you'll learn a lot.
And Gene did get them done. Something like four different groups were in charge with Kerry Stair finishing the project.
And no factory, trained work force, or assembly line. A lot of volunteer work got the games assembled.
There were bumps along the way with the BBB's getting done.
LTG : )
I didn't say Gene did everything he promised. At all. That wasn't the point.
Quoted from spfxted:I see what you're saying, but I STILL don't think it's anything he did on purpose. I think he really wants to make the BEST machine possible. Don't you think so?
I think he wants to sell as many machines as possible. I think he could not only sell ice to Eskimos, he could convince them that they couldn't live without his ice. I think that selling machines, in part, requires them to be of a quality that he can sell as the best.
Quoted from pinlawyer:But this is his first rodeo. Give the man a break.
Isn't leaving $6500-7500 with him, despite it taking "twice the time" giving the man a break? I admittedly didn't give him that much of a break, but we didn't see money being pulled en masse.
Quoted from pinballlife:Small companies require most people to wear more than one hat. As a company grows, it is the owner of that company's responsibility to know when to take off one of the hats (from his/her own head or someone else) and put it onto another head; rinse and repeat as things go along.
IMHO JJP has done a pretty good job of this. IIRC, JJP started with around 5-6 core people. They are at about double that now (excluding assembly workers). This seems about right to me, but what do I know. I do know that making a full pinball machine and company from zero has to be crazy hard because just making the parts is more difficult than it looks.
In my experience I started with just me 10 years ago, then added my wife (she went from being a silent business partner to an active one), then 1 employee, then 2, then 3, then 4, then turned employee 1 into a manager, then 5, then 6, then 7, then 8. We split up duties and cross trained as we went along. I STILL can't spend more than a day away from the office or the whole thing goes up in flames, so I know I'm not doing something right
Terry.
No one can deny that you do an awesome job, Terry. As far as building a business and brand go, Jack has also done an exemplary job. I am sure that you learned a lot of lessons along the way, just as Jack is learning them now. Communication is an art form, and you can't always communicate as a salesman, if you are wearing the other hats. At least in my opinion. At the end of the day, isn't that really the only issue that anyone has a problem with? At least when it comes to this machine? The "just get your refund" crowd don't help the situation, and create more squabble. But that isn't on anyone else.
^ and there's the logical end of the thread. Politics rears it's head, for no good reason. Let's call it quits before we get to Hitler.
Lloyd is asset #1 to the online pinball community. But he is tougher on Stern than he either claims or realizes.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:Isnt this the truth. He prides himself so much on his reputation but has burned more bridges than i can count. He has lost crediablity with so much of the community i doubt he will have startup for hobbit. He claims so many machines have been sold but how do we know his other companies have not bought them. Easy to say pinball sales bought a 1000 hobbits. That way he is saving face. Who knows but when people ask me what i think about the man (not the game) I tell them. I tell them the same way I tell people about Stern. Happy customers tell one or two people about a experience. Unhappy customers tell hundreds of people. I have no dealings with WOZ but have my own set of stories about PS.com
I would warn everyone that some people have a funny definition of slander, and have shown a willingness to get involved on a legal level. Legitimate or not, it isn't worth the hassle. Seriously.
Quoted from spfxted:This is not what most people want.
You don't know what most people want, Ted. Truth actually be told, most people more likely want you to stop speaking for them.
Quoted from spfxted:Why don't you mind your own business. I know plenty of people getting a WOZ and that's how they feel. They DON'T want the machine in whatever form. They want it RIGHT.
You take this temperature frequently with most people, do you? Hyperbole Ted. Post a .gif and complete the circuit.
Yes, ignore the hatters. The fumes make them crazy.
The research has flushed out that most people want something done right? Fascinating. For your next project, can we find out if most people prefer to lose their house to floodwaters or not?
Quoted from spfxted:...and is there REALLY a dancing band...or are ya just funnin' me...?
Yeah, there is. Upper right hand corner.
Quoted from spfxted:Is the band like the Boogie-Men on Elvira & the Party Monsters, or do they do more than bop up and down.
Different. Plastics that sway back and forth, and Angus' leg kicks as he bops along. All set in front of a big plastic stage background.
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