I just wish the comparisons to Vacation America would cease.
That machine was specifically built for the home market not the Commercial market!

It is the only other board set they have designed. Until MMr. I can imagine if you have a commitment to spend 8k on these it would be uncomfortable to have these truths pointed out so sorry about that.

I dunno, maybe everything they've built before VA like MM and CC, and everything after?

Why don't we wait and see how it all shakes out before we start slamming it? How can we really have an opinion if we don't know anything?

What's with all these Vacation America pin quality concerns... yeah it was what it was but its like complaining about Stern's "The Pin".

99.9% of people posting about it have never played one, let alone owned one long enough to give an opinion on long ter build quality.

Did the boards fail on Vacation America? The game blew but the boards were fine right?

Except, of course, that they didn't.

Came here to vote, didnt see an option for "not interested at all".

MM really isn't that great of a game when you spend some time on it. It was only desirable to so many because it was "unattainable". But then again... Isn't that what makes a collector market in the first place?

So much for the days of "the hunt".

I'm staying in hoping the shiny black trim and habit rails become an included option, giving a much needed updated look. The cost is already high on this machine, I'm not willing to pay more or have it done aftermarket.
The gold (any version) is very tacky and the standard stainless does not look like a 2014 LE should.

The same can be said about the people talking up how great MMR is for "The hobby". Most people here only played MM after waiting in line at an expo (complete with phone pics taken standing next to the machine).

I disagree. I think most people know several people with an MM, and it's one of the first games that the barcades popping up over the last few years seem to obtain.

However, while I have played VA, I don't know anyone that has one and I've never seen one on route or even at a show.

VA sucks cuz the GAME sucks. They didn't design MM, and we know MM is good.

VA was what...10 years ago? It's irrelevant. That's like saying new Stern games must suck because Striker X-Treme was a piece of crap.

MMR no good for the hobby? Heck (no, not you Ben) look at the change of heart and courtesy MMR/PPS is getting from this thread. Any other time a machine is being sold or announced here the thread gets derailed with critique about the price, what it looks like, etc. Here we have a separate thread for any doubts, while the MMR update thread has posts offering to pay MORE for a certain trim color! This is progress, people!

Oh the game blew alright. There were multiple reports (one I know was true) of them catching on fire, and no I don't know/remember exactly how but I would assume it stemmed from the coils.

The thing about Vacation America is that when they stopped working, no one fixed them. That's not to say that they couldn't be fixed...it's just that many people didn't care enough to fix them because the game sucked, and many pinball people wouldn't work on them. Of course, if it needed a proprietary part like a PCB you were pretty much SOL after a while, as CGC stopped supporting VA and stocking parts for it pretty quick (as they usually do).

I would expect MMR to be built better than VA was. But I wouldn't expect it to be built any better than a Stern.

^Your opinion that appears to be stated as fact^

I have owned 4 MM's since 2001 and spent plenty of time on the table... and it IS "that great of a game" IMHO
flow, humor, complete code, artwork ect ect.
There is a reason they have been hard to find/expensive for a long time it because (wait for it)
IT'S A KICK ASS GAME!

just a total coincidence all the naysayers are current MM owners. total coincidence. nothing more.

meow . . .
cats-fighting1.jpg

I don't speak for PPS.

I would consider. The majority of these are sold to pinball collectors and hobbyists. And operators.

They for the most part have experience working on games. Unlike many WOZ owners who didn't even know what pinball is.

And for what I've seen in the pictures. Swapping a small board in the head - easy. Three driver boards under the playfield, identical and interchangeable, medium. Big board with LEDs, a little work to remove and swap in a new one.

There won't be much for the average person to trouble shoot on these parts that are different from the originals. If the need arises it looks more like replacements.

LTG : )

A major part of the VA sucking was the technology. I was at Expo when it was unveiled, the low pressure that surrounded their booth almost sucked in adjacent booths it was so terrible. And they are very much designing the operating system platform that will power these new games, that was announced at Expo by Rick himself. The only part that I will give a pass on being "good" is the software that obviously comes from WMS.

I actually like this analogy. To your point, VA was "one and out" while Stern actually has been building machines for 10 years. Nothing like practice and experience to better your product and process.

Why does everyone keep saying this? Chicago Gaming did not build any part of the original MM and CC games. From what I remember Churchill Cabinets built the cabinets and playfields, and I think they got bought out by Chicago Gaming. But it ends there. They didn't assemble anything on the games, and they didn't supply the boardsets or anything like that. If I am wrong someone please correct me and I will appogize here, but we need to stop giving CG create for any more on the original games than the plywood related stuff...

Viper why do you care so much if we buy a new MM? What do you gain from your posts. As I look through your collection it seems you have a ton of titles all ripe to remade by PPS. Is this a value thing or do you just have a bug up your butt.

I am buying this game because it plays fantastic on the pinball arcade and I normally dont enjoy games on the ipad. The one routed one I played locally was terrible, from the low volume to the dirty playfield to the weak ass flippers. So yes buying this game new appeals to me and a few others here. I find it laughable how many MM owners poo poo this project but have no game on order and are just mainly vindictive in nature. PPS bought the rights and now can remake these games you love and more people get to enjoy them which in turn grows the hobby.

This is the best thing to happen to pinball since I started in the hobby a little over a year ago. I am choosing this game over STLE because I believe I will enjoy it more and it will feel more like the old Williams did when new then sterns mass produced and clackity clack clack buzzy flippers. I am saving probably ten grand plus of what it would have cost to have HEP do one for me which was out of the question price wise.

My motivations are pretty simple actually. I was around and involved in pinball collecting when WMS was still making games, and I was in the room when George Gomez (sp?) gave his now famous Expo lecture that predicted the closing of the WMS pinball division that happened about 48 hours later. You are correct, I am not in the market for a MMr, or even the next 2 or 3 titles that would likely be remade. But I would be all over something like a NIB Funhouse or NGG or several other titles. So frankly I would like to see this done correctly. For all of the crap that I gave Wayne he actually had the right idea (building a nut for nut copy of the original MM game). Where he failed is he never spent the real money it takes to setup an assembly line that was necessary to pull it off. And frankly I became a thorn in the side of the fanboys of that project because I liked to point out (maybe too often) that there was litterally no evidence of Wayne building a pinball factory (aside from hammering a sign into his front yard that declared the building as such).

I have worked in a factory for the past 20 years so I can tell you, nothing that ships out the back door magically assembles itself. It's hard work and lots of tedious, expensive steps to get to a final product.

Fast forward to this past October and Rick makes his big annoucement. Frankly, he is already past the hurdle that Wayne could never overcome as obviously CG has a factory and assembly line already. But I have serious doubts about the qualtity of the product that will be produced as it's heart and soul (mechanically) would appear to be more Chicago Gaming than WMS, and it also smacks of a lot of cost cutting measures. If they were going to sell these copies at the same price as the originals some cost cutting would seem to be in order. But at quadrupal the original price you (and potentially me later on) should be getting a quality product. Maybe the pictures are deceiving and that is what will come out of this?

So now you know my dark secrets. I do continue to find it fasinating that people on this forum are constantly judged based on their collections. But since I have never had anything to hide I don't intend to delete mine from my profile. And for the record everything I have ever posted about Wayne and his debacle I did using my own name as my RGP handle. My name is Kyle Wren and if you ever want to ask me any further questions I'm happy to answer them, and you can feel free to look up all my past posts to find out what I'm really all about. I'll give you a hint though, there are not 6 folded up MM sitting in my garage or anything, just the one that I have in my basement that I enjoy playing. I hope Rick's projects works great and he makes enough of these games for everyone to have one, I just think for $8,000.00 they should be solidly built and worth that tremendous pricetag. Don't you?

Why do people have polls with choices that cover one out of ten people taking the poll? At least put in a "none of the above" button.

+1

Broken record. Over and over and over. You REALLY think that this is going to be some slapped together piece of shit? Seriously? Upon delivery of the 1st machine you would have every single buyer pulling out and filing a lawsuit to get their deposits back, costing PPS literally MILLIONS and putting them out of business. You realize that, right? Give us break already with the Vacation America "worries". You are repeating this over and over in an attempt to cast doubt. You have zero vested interest in the remake but to hope that it fails.

Plenty of companies have produced dogshit products in their past. If this was a completely newly designed game, your fake worries might be valid. It isn't and they aren't. They are remaking a game. Did people stop buying Fords after the Pinto?(Sorry Greg) This is a fully licensed machine that has to receive final approval before it ships. It will be as close to the original machine as possible and in some ways better.

Wow Viper, you certainly shut me up. All your points are valid and since I am in manufacturing myself and with a retail component to my business I try to see both sides. I think we want the same thing for different reasons a high quality product. Sorry if I offended you I think I was talking out of my butt again a bit.

P.S. I love your game choices in your collection.

I couldn't disagree more. The whole trend that Stern started with their powder coated metal trim looks cheap as hell. It costs them very little and it's a way to justify charging more money. Makes them look like Zizzle machines or something. Totally tacky and cheap looking.

I'll take my metal polished, thank you very much. Especially on a machine such as MM. Swords and armor would never have been powder coated

Hahahaa! Yeah, dude. That's ALL that you have been trying to say all this time. Give us a break.

Also, Viper. CC is the next game that is going to be remade. I got confirmation from someone on the inside. Start gearing up to bash that machine 'cause your CC is about to tank in value as well.

Amen on that.

Just so I understand. It's not fair to say the Chicago Gaming was in on the original MM build? Even though CG bought CCC, we can't call them CG, we have to distinguish?

No, they didn't supply the board sets. Either the board sets work or they don't, do you really think they are going to ship non working? Are they going to ship perfect, probably not. But like most technology, they are software upgradable.

You can talk about the new board sets all day long, but until you have all the information, (or any information), it's kind of hard to slam it. It'll work fine.

I am now 100% on board with this great project. Go Rick, Go PPS!

So now that I am an insider I just have to ask question that has really been bugging me. How many people here went through Wayne G as the distributor to get one of these MMr games? Because I have to think that is a weird call to have to make. Kind of like your wife (Wayne) cheats on you so you divorce her, and it's an ugly 7 year legal battle. And now you are finally ready to move on with your life and you meet the girl of your dreams and propose and she says yes! But then you call up the only wedding planner in the country and it's Wayne, but you don't care so you send him a $1000 deposit anyway. Is it like that?

P.S. (starbase): Thanks! Stop by anytime if you want to play. Except we should probably converse first. And it should be a time that I'm home and not busy. And I'd probably ask a couple of questions of you to kind of make sure you aren't an axe murderer or anything. But otherwise we should hang out...

P.P.S. (everyone): I will stop guys. I know you don't believe me but I sincerely do hope this works out and the games are great.

If I ever get to Ohio I will leave the axe at home. Thanks for the invite.

I still have my order in, but will probably cancel unless I can see/play the prototype before the cutoff date.

I don't care who builds this or what they built in the past. The WMS sign-off will be good enough for me!

In all fairness they have the best guy they could get responsible for that sign-off. And at least the time frames Rick has given we don't have to wait years and years for that to happen as you should be hearing something this month I would guess. Approval is all but a given with the money riding on this project.

Proves you DON'T have anyone on "the inside."

Well, I will make someone out there on a wait list happy...just cancelled my pre-order on a MMLE. I just can't warrant the expense right now. Fingers crossed that this will ultimately lower the value of MM and MMR's in the future and I can pick one up for less...but my gut is telling me that won't happen...

it already HAS happened, to the originals anyway.

Can you keep us posted how long it takes to get refund and who was distributor?

I would expect a refund in 10 days. 2-3 days to write the check and then a week for mail. Anything longer I'd consider a long time.

God I know I was very positive before but now after realizing I am going to pay 9100+ with tax and shipping I am cooling. Have not bailed yet but I just think it's a crazy price if you ordered in California from PPS. Probably going to use 9000 towards a down payment on a new car I have been saving for. 9000 bucks is a hell of a lot of car payments or maybe zero payments. Sorry to bring cars into this but I just think its a fun game, but 9000 dollars of fun, not sure.

Yeah, I've officially dropped out. Lots of coin. I can get a couple of machines instead. If they do a completed Cactus Canyon, I'm in, but ultimately I'm not a big enough MM fan to warrant the expense.

Bottom line is I'm standing by. How about a real Video if someone playing the game. Actually I'd rather have CC.

Sounds like we may not need the run of standard MMr?? Run the LE's and move on to MB & CC
That would certainly lock in the sale of 1000 LE machines as of right now many are taking a wait and see attitude because they can just pick up a standard later.

What would be really ironic is if the "Standard Edition" becomes worth more than the LE because they ended up making fewer of them.

Rarity isn't a guarantee of desirability or worth. There were only 3 1968 Corvettes built with a three-speed manual transmission. They are worth less than the many '68 'vettes with the much more desireable 4-speed manual or even the 3-speed Turbo-Hydramatic automatic trans. (I know, I know - another dreaded car analogy.)

If they do build some (and I am not expecting many) MMR "standards" they would only turn out to be worth more than the LEs if the gold plating on the LEs turned out to be of inferior quality or the LEs had some other defect which made the LEs less desireable.

Buy because you want it, looks like a lot of people made the deposit on pure SPECULATION that prices would go up. It's not collectible when everyone has one.