(Topic ID: 143470)

Anyone else notice Pin sales harder now?


By kaneda

4 years ago



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  • 255 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Luppin
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 255 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.
    #201 4 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    you could always try petty sniping at people with cool cars, apparently that's pretty satisfying.

    Pull dart out of neck.........

    #202 4 years ago
    Quoted from shimoda:

    I sold a 1951 Niagara about 14 years ago to a guy in PA for $1K on ebay. Couldn't believe it but I wish I hadn't. Needed the money and the thing had backglass flaking and wear and I had stripped the cabinet to make it look 'nicer' but I wish I had it just because of how cool the art was and how different the play was. In today's money that $1000 would be 1350 basically. Not bad for a 64 year old pinball machine with gobble holes!

    The thing is pre 1955 Gottlieb pinballs are truly rare as produced in low production numbers with not many surviving and even less in nice original condition.

    The market for these games did crash but is relatively stable now.

    These games, apart from rarity, are evocative of another era, have sublime artwork and most importantly are some of the best playing pinballs ever made.

    Niagara is really hard to find and a nice example would certainly be $2000 plus.

    I noticed a 1954 Daisy May that was listed on pinside a few months back, sold super quick and it had a large hole in the back of the cabinet and it still sold for $3000 plus.

    At the moment supply is low, demand is low but if demand were to ever pick up, well you know the rest. And most of the buyers for these games have had no exposure to them in the past.

    If the overall market takes a hit through saturation, modern Stern's are the most likely to depreciate the most.

    #203 4 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    I said I agreed with him......"no politics, no religion'.

    Didn't John Lennon sing about that already?

    #204 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Pins aren't selling because Kaneda's not buying. End of story.

    Kaneda would never start a thread without relevant experience or insight to offer - I'm sure he's had his LOTR on the market for months but just cannot find a buyer.

    #205 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    Just sold two machines today in Colorado. (Regional discussion anyone?)
    No Good Gofers for $3500 after three days on Craigslist.
    Johnny Mnemonic for $2250 after 1 day on CL.
    Market seems fine to me.

    I'm going to follow up on my own comment.

    The buyer yesterday for JM is returning to buy my un-advertised Pinball Magic for $3500. He tells me he's been collecting for 2 years now.

    Also, my buyer yesterday for NGG has been collecting for 4 years. Both men are very enthusiastic about this hobby.

    For me, after almost 10 years of collecting, I'm selling right now and significantly reducing the size of my collection. I'm also going in some exciting directions in life that are distracting from pinball. Change is good.

    So what conclusion can we make of the recent facts I've presented here?

    - Fuck if I know.

    #206 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    I'm also going in some other exciting directions in life but that would be off topic.

    I'll bite.

    what directions?

    #207 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I'll bite.
    what directions?

    Me too!

    #208 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I'll bite.
    what directions?

    You caught me during an edit and it would be off topic anyway.

    #209 4 years ago

    The used pin market around here most folks ask way too much for what they have. Some CL listings have been on there 9 months or longer. Some prices come down a little but most don't. I like what I have and never buy a machine I don't like. For now, my games are for me. Not in the biz of selling pins. Maybe one day. New games are fine on location but I don't want to own one. Too expensive and a hassle to work on compared to older games. But, I am a grumpy old man...............

    #210 4 years ago

    My current habit on expensive new pins has been this....
    - Buy it new (try to find the best price)
    - play it about 700 times.
    Always keep it clean and use new balls about every 275 games
    - keep it for 3 or four months
    - sell it for $500 less than what I bought it for

    It's just like paying to play on location, but you get to set the machine up as you like.

    #211 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    You caught me during an edit and it would be off topic anyway.

    Sounds like an opportunity to step down into the basement

    #212 4 years ago

    A couple of things-
    1. Pinball really needs investors or leverage to crash. There arent any investors and people are not charging these games, so no crash will happen anytime soon. Investors crash markets when they realize they can not make money anymore on what they "invested" in. Oh I meant collected. Wink. Leveraged investors are the worst and will really crash markets. People pay cash money for their pins. So people can afford them and if you can afford a pinball game chances are you are doing ok financially.

    2. You can actually play these pinball! You can play by yourself or with family and freinds. Some have multipalyer also! When things get tight people get rid of stuff they cant use first. Like that $125,000 collectible you cant touch, or share with family or friends.

    3. For those who say pinball is for a older, aging crowd, look at some of the titles that have came out recently like IM, Tron, Avengers, SM, Family Guy etc.. These titles are based on current new movies and other forms of entertainment, but they have a blend of retro also, like the superhero themes from comics 50 years ago or Tron from the 80's. Pinball has a nice mix of current and past with one title. I have been to barcades before in my travels and have seen tons of 20 somethings playing punball on a weeknight. I was blown away! I talked to a few on a bunch of differnet occasions and some had a reasonably priced game like T2, but wanted to get a Tron someday. They will when they have a few more bucks. The future is bright.

    4. Anyone can afford a pin. You got $600 then you can get in the game. You may even enjoy your EM more than someone else enjoys their new LE! Heck you dont even need a pin to enjoy pinball. In Ga we have get togethers all the time and all are welcome. A very friendly, open community is what pinball is around here. Anyone who starts to play wants one though.

    5. The best marketing pinball has is all of us right here! I have had people I didnt know come to my house to try some games and have purchased a game after playing mine. I have had neighbors buy their first pin after playing mine also. What is cool about pinball is that everyone has an opinion LOL! and helps others buy pins if they need advice. I have talked to many newbies abut their first pin purchase and helped them work it through. We were all there once. We are a small pond and dont need too many more people coming in every year to keep going strong. I will do my part. Will you do yours? PM me if you want to stop buy and play my RCT! Seriously.

    6. On the "games arent selling fast" theme to this topic. It is not because buyers have no interest in the pins for sale. The SELLERS DONT LISTEN TO THE FUCKIN MARKET! That is the real problem. So sellers, dont fuckin bump your sale thread every day for over a month with no price drops, free delivery or added features or fixes. Dont fucking go off on the person who says you are overpriced in a nice way a month into your sale either. Dont complain if you have to lose 10% on what you paid for a pin 2 years ago either. That is nothing! If you cant deal with that then you are in the wrong hobby. Am I the only one here who agrees on this?

    Those who say it is a buyers market could you please list off the screamming deals you see on the Pinside market or elsewhere, so we can see examples of what you are talking about? I dont see to many. $4800 IMVE huo with a shaker does not count and I own IM.

    To be honest giving up the friends I made since getting into pinball would be a lot harder than letting my pins go. Just sayin'.

    #213 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    what directions?

    Exotic dancer. First Glare Guards, now shaking his booty.

    LTG : )™

    #214 4 years ago
    Quoted from JDD:

    My current habit on expensive new pins has been this....

    use new balls about every 275 games

    LMAO!!

    #216 4 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Exotic dancer. First Glare Guards, now shaking his booty.
    LTG : )™

    I wonder how much for an oil show???

    #217 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I wonder how much for an oil show???

    As they say......if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

    #218 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    I'm going to follow up on my own comment.
    The buyer yesterday for JM is returning to buy my un-advertised Pinball Magic for $3500. He tells me he's been collecting for 2 years now.
    Also, my buyer yesterday for NGG has been collecting for 4 years. Both men are very enthusiastic about this hobby.
    For me, after almost 10 years of collecting, I'm selling right now and significantly reducing the size of my collection. I'm also going in some exciting directions in life that are distracting from pinball. Change is good.
    So what conclusion can we make of the recent facts I've presented here?
    - Fuck if I know.

    I'll bite. First of all, we are talking mid-range sales here. I think the stagnant market is that over $5500/6000 from what I've observed. Secondly, it's CO, which has an uncommonly enthusiastic pinball scene, both in location pinball and tournaments/clubs. And finally it's a pin from the well known Mr. 68, a superb fellow with sharp machines and good rep.

    But seriously, I think the $6k+ sales are going to be the ones most affected, because of all the new releases in that range competing for those dollars. And with MMR, all the high-end B/W titles are under scrutiny "Will ___ be next? I'm not going to buy a ___ now, because I might be able to get one NIB next year..." And that goes for Sterns that increase in value as well, because they've started the VE's, which directly compete against the used market of their own customers (not a great idea, IMHO!).

    I do concur with the Chicken Little melodrama, and yes there have been a zillion threads like this on RGP and here over the past 10 years, but back then pinball makers weren't going back into the vault to make old titles, and I think that (along with the unusual amount of new releases from boutque/new manufacturers [which is a good thing]) will keep the market cool on the used 90's A titles and the used Sterns which sell at, near or above the Premium pricing level.

    #219 4 years ago

    PS- also, isn't it that time when people in CO re-stock their basement arcades in preparation for the winter/snow-ins? Or did that already happen? (Native Floridian here, who spends the first 48 hours of his CO visits vaguely shivering).

    #220 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Pins aren't selling because Kaneda's not buying. End of story.

    Kaneda has started 21 topics with LOTR in the subject. The interweb couldn't handle Kaneda on a buying spree. Count your blessing he isn't buying!

    #221 4 years ago
    Quoted from mechslave:

    I'll bite. First of all, we are talking mid-range sales here. I think the stagnant market is that over $5500/6000 from what I've observed.

    That's a really small part of the market, so really, who cares?

    #222 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    You caught me during an edit and it would be off topic anyway.

    Going into politics? Or the priesthood?

    #225 4 years ago

    Fair example of a good deal, OVD. Kind of an odd game and not on too many collectors radars though. First pin? Go for it!

    #226 4 years ago

    Yeah I sold my ID4 for $1800 last year in a flash

    I think moral of the story is, for every example, there is another to prove otherwise. It seems to me the really quickly inflated prices are calming down. There are enough new game options available ..... there is plenty of supply. Doesn't mean games aren't selling, just means less are selling for asking price (dreamers pricing).

    Of course the folks which price games for the good no rate typically have no trouble.

    #227 4 years ago

    I think it depends on the game, and you can't really expect to get what you put into it. I sold AC/DC a few months ago for $500 less than I paid for it with mods. I am selling No Fear for way less than I paid to get it and make it nice, but I knew that was a risk when I put too much money into it.

    The hard part is selling mods. I am trying to sell a Total Rock Concert mod for AC/DC, and no one is interested. I may have to take a big hit on that one to get it to move as well.

    #228 4 years ago
    Quoted from Nexyss:

    The hard part is selling mods. I am trying to sell a Total Rock Concert mod for AC/DC, and no one is interested. I may have to take a big hit on that one to get it to move as well.

    Well, it's an awesome mod, so people should jump all over it. A bitch to install, but awesome when done.

    #229 4 years ago
    Quoted from Nexyss:

    The hard part is selling mods. I am trying to sell a Total Rock Concert mod for AC/DC, and no one is interested. I may have to take a big hit on that one to get it to move as well.

    Why would selling a modded pin be any different than selling a modded automobile?

    You take your new car, throw custom wheels, low profile tires, a body kit on it -- eyes wide open - you know you won't get that back when you sell it. Book value on a car is book value on a car, regardless of how many extras you put into it.

    Same goes for pins, with the exception of removable expensive mods like ColorDMD -- IMO.

    #230 4 years ago

    I embrace this cargument! Cause it's true.

    #231 4 years ago
    Quoted from bstyles:

    Why would selling a modded pin be any different than selling a modded automobile?
    You take your new car, throw custom wheels, low profile tires, a body kit on it -- eyes wide open - you know you won't get that back when you sell it. Book value on a car is book value on a car, regardless of how many extras you put into it.
    Same goes for pins, with the exception of removable expensive mods like ColorDMD -- IMO.

    Cargument!

    I price my pins at what I want for them. If you don't want to pay for the mods I've put into it, I'll sell the game to someone else.

    #232 4 years ago
    Quoted from tamoore:

    Cargument!
    I price my pins at what I want for them. If you don't want to pay for the mods I've put into it, I'll sell the game to someone else.

    To be fair....your prices are usually more than fair.....unlike MANY others. But point taken none the less.

    #233 4 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Not to mention market saturation.

    POP

    #234 4 years ago
    Quoted from bstyles:

    Why would selling a modded pin be any different than selling a modded automobile?
    You take your new car, throw custom wheels, low profile tires, a body kit on it -- eyes wide open - you know you won't get that back when you sell it. Book value on a car is book value on a car, regardless of how many extras you put into it.
    Same goes for pins, with the exception of removable expensive mods like ColorDMD -- IMO.

    I never installed the mod, and the guy who bought my AC/DC didn't want it. I am just trying to sell the mod by itself.

    On my No Fear, the buyer wants to save the money of the LEDOCD and GIOCD, so I will either have to sell those, or keep them for another pin.

    #235 4 years ago
    Quoted from HOOKED:

    Anytime your north of 4k it is harder to move a pin IMO.
    Unless you have a collector that sees value it, it will sit a while.
    From what I have heard even NIB sales have slowed since spring.
    We are going into the sellers market which will be up to two weeks prior to Christmas.
    Now there is a second sellers market end of Jan to March ...tax return market.
    I have always been able to sell between second week of Jan and March.

    I think that's the key, remove the mods, why give them away? I on the other hand am willing to pay some for the mods, they are usually at a bargain. To me a Spider-Man with all the Back Alley Creations goodies, it worth more than one without.

    #236 4 years ago
    Quoted from Nexyss:

    The hard part is selling mods. I am trying to sell a Total Rock Concert mod for AC/DC, and no one is interested. I may have to take a big hit on that one to get it to move as well.

    Personally I generally don't buy tables that have mods. I do get all my tables restored but aside from the switch to led's I generally prefer them to be bone stock. It's just personal preference, but that means I will look past ads for tables that have been modded.

    #238 4 years ago

    Every single pin I have listed above $4K has taken a while to sell and every single one I have listed under $2.5K has sold within two weeks. Unfortunately, I haven't had too many in the middle range.

    IMO, people start to get a little uncomfortable buying something 20 years old and used with no warranty or anything. Once the price creeps over $4K, some just prefer to buy that NIB game with a warranty. Also, they can charge it and pay it in 2 or three installments. If your credit is good or you bank at a Credit Union, for instance, you can get a personal loan with lower interest rates. I would guess people financing stuff would prefer to finance something new.

    #239 4 years ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Personally I generally don't buy tables that have mods. I do get all my tables restored but aside from the switch to led's I generally prefer them to be bone stock. It's just personal preference, but that means I will look past ads for tables that have been modded.

    All fair enough. Someone that mods the hell out of their games either won't be selling to you (and so has decreased their buying market by a decent chunk since there are others that feel as you do), or will have to strip the mods to sell to you, or leave the mods on and just write them off entirely. Of course if they're desperate to sell they may go with one of the later two options, and if you're desperate for a particular title you might buy it and pay something extra for the mods, with the intention of stripping them off and selling them to recoup some of your costs.

    I'd bet most buyers are somewhere in the middle -- they like specific mods and would pay more for a game with those mods installed, but heavily discount mods they don't care about. In the end it's just one more basis for negotiating the sale price.

    #240 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I'd bet most buyers are somewhere in the middle -- they like specific mods and would pay more for a game with those mods installed, but heavily discount mods they don't care about. In the end it's just one more basis for negotiating the sale price.

    Every single game I ever sold I added the price of the mods in full. (every game sold)

    #241 4 years ago

    There are a couple of observations I have made recently: 1. In this age of easy video, there is no excuse for having inaccurate descriptions of games. I have seen games listed as high quality home use only that looked, in person, like they were on the receiving end of a mob beating. Shame on them for misrepresenting the condition- but shame on me for not getting a video. 2. That said, I (and some of my close friends) have wanted to make substantial purchases of what where clearly fine examples of games, but alas- the good stuff always seems to be "pickup only." That may have an impact on sales perception wise in a way greater than any market shift. It has for me, as the cash I put to the side remains safe and secure, waiting for a decent game I want to come up for sale and not require two days travel to get there.

    #242 4 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Every single game I ever sold I added the price of the mods in full. (every game sold)

    Ok, but did you do that for every game you sold, or just some?

    #243 4 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Every single game I ever sold I added the price of the mods in full. (every game sold)

    Seems reasonable to add in the cost of the mod without the time to acquire/install, the buyer should appreciate that.

    -1
    #244 4 years ago

    If you think $4,000-$7000 DMD's are hard to sell now wait till LCD's become legit

    Folks who say "you don't play the LCD" should look FW to the LCD rollout... Because DMD's will drop IMO.

    When I see a newer Stern w/fancy factory LED bulbs sitting next to an older Stern w/factory incandescent bulbs (looking all dated & yellow) I would imaging the LCD rollout will be like that x10

    Color DMD gives you a small taste of that sensation

    Maybe the LCD event will never occur in significant numbers though, who knows really

    #245 4 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    If you think $4,000-$7000 DMD's are hard to sell now wait till LCD's become legit
    Folks who say "you don't play the LCD" should look FW to the LCD rollout... Because DMD's will drop IMO.
    When I see a newer Stern w/fancy factory LED bulbs sitting next to an older Stern w/factory incandescent bulbs (looking all dated & yellow) I would imaging the LCD rollout will be like that x10
    Color DMD gives you a small taste of that sensation
    Maybe the LCD event will never occur in significant numbers though, who knows really

    I disagree. The market has stepped up on all levels. Not just DMD.

    Just because DMD came out it did not kill System-11. And those prices are rising just as fast. Same for classic Bally and even EMs are more then they use to be.

    At The Sanctum last week did I play Tron and Kiss? Yes, but I also played Alien Poker, Blackjack, Globetrotters and Frontier. It is so funny how some people get so hypnotized by the LEDs then can't find fun in some really great games.

    I had already picked up the most of the Bally/Williams games I wanted and started going back for System-11 and games I sold in the past. But people have jacked System-11s so high for a few more $ I can get a "B" titles Bly/Wms if I wait.

    Yes, I'm old. I still like games before DMD and incandescent bulbs. There are many of us. I have passed on games where mods were part of the price. Someone else got it, good for them. I am happy passing good for me. The guy did sell it, good for him.

    #246 4 years ago

    I'll agree with the difference being high vs low cost pins. I posted two <=~2k pins on Friday night for sale and they were gone before lunch on Saturday (Baywatch and Party Zone). Not looking forward to trying to trade/sell my ST Pro because I know it won't go nearly as fast.

    #247 4 years ago

    I know a bunch of people trying to break into the hobby at the $1k to $2k mark. Anecdotally, there's a lot of new demand there. Higher up the ladder, I think it's just, you know, a lot of dough for a niche used game that kinda tends to break a lot. Generally speaking.

    #248 4 years ago

    I know I personally would not pay for mods when I buy a pin. That being said I like them but I want to do them at my pace. Paying for them upfront is just a waste and could add several hundred to the price. Pins are amazing when you first get one, after a few months it's nice to do a mod freshen things up and super fun to install. If you pay up front I feel like I paid someone else to take the fun out of ownership. It's easer to put money in over time too, easier for me to stomach anyway.

    1 month later
    #249 3 years ago

    Totally agree about the fun factor of installing and freshly enjoying mods. Personally I think its a value you get when you buy a new toy for yourself, but do not expect to get that money back when selling the pin.

    #250 3 years ago
    Quoted from Luppin:

    but do not expect to get that money back when selling the pin.

    That's why I take them out if the purchaser doesn't want to pay extra for them. I'll sell them to someone who does.

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