(Topic ID: 143470)

Anyone else notice Pin sales harder now?


By kaneda

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Luppin
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    There are 255 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
    #1 3 years ago

    I love seeing what's for sale on Pinside and lately some really beautiful pins have been on the market. Pins that a year ago were selling A LOT faster than they are now. An AC/DC Luci Refinery Edition, TWD LE's, Metallica LE's...Lots of really nice stuff that's taking a lot longer to sell than usual, or so it seems.

    Not sure if I'm right or not. What do you think? My theory has always been that we are on the verge of a lot of nice new, innovative stuff hitting the market. And collector's get the itch for something new every 6 months or so, so stuff has to go.

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    #2 3 years ago

    You just listed 3 titles that fetch over 6k. The market for those has always been a lot slower than other markets. The market for sub 2k DMDs has been hotter now than ever before. Only so much money to go around for toys. Once your toys cost more than your cars, you go find other toys.

    #3 3 years ago

    I still am doing some window shopping.. SO I am still paying attention to pins and prices....
    I would agree. Unless the pin is truly priced to sell, it seems to be sitting. Which could be as simple as prices creeping up slightly and buyers not feeling it.
    Anecdotally though, it seems there are more higher priced, shopped out, fully restored, wanting top dollar pins for sale. As opposed to solid player machines priced reasonably.

    I have been saying to myself when I see those ads, 'well how much without the add ons, leds and a little bit dirty?'

    #4 3 years ago

    Not to mention market saturation.

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Not to mention market saturation.

    I suspect it's only going to get worse in the next year as about 10 new pins hit the market next year (6 boutique, and 4 Stern).

    #6 3 years ago

    I think the market is definitely saturated.

    #7 3 years ago

    Not sure. I'm starting to see nice LOTR's sell for $7K in 1 day out here...and people are running over each other to get them! Hopefully Stern will take notice and get that license back.

    #8 3 years ago

    Too many people wasting money and space on every new title that comes out whether they have played them or not. Lots of titles that become stale after a few months. Market saturation. The beginning of the end...

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Too many people wasting money and space on every new title that comes out whether they have played them or not. Lots of titles that become stale after a few months. Market saturation. The beginning of the end...

    I don't agree because there is a finite amount of old pins and that pool is getting smaller every day.
    I don't even look at a new pin, can't afford it, but I am always looking...and sometimes buying, the older ones.

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from FugTM:

    I don't agree because there is a finite amount of old pins and that pool is getting smaller every day.
    I don't even look at a new pin, can't afford it, but I am always looking...and sometimes buying, the older ones.

    I hear you on the older ones. Gotta get while gettings good on those. I think the OP was refering to more of the higher priced recent ones where owners are trading them in every time a new title is announced. And some expect to sell them for at least if not more than they paid.

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    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    I love seeing what's for sale on Pinside and lately some really beautiful pins have been on the market. Pins that a year ago were selling A LOT faster than they are now. An AC/DC Luci Refinery Edition, TWD LE's, Metallica LE's...Lots of really nice stuff that's taking a lot longer to sell than usual, or so it seems.
    Not sure if I'm right or not. What do you think? My theory has always been that we are on the verge of a lot of nice new, innovative stuff hitting the market. And collector's get the itch for something new every 6 months or so, so stuff has to go.

    For the big dollar stuff, maybe. It gets tough when people buy in a NIB Stern pin, throw a bunch of aftermarket crap on it and then expect to be able to resell it used for $4,800-$5,000 one year later...which is a lot of what I see nowadays. I always get a kick out of seeing the for sale posts for used Stern pins at retail price or more that you can still by NIB. For the $2,000 range it has never been easier for me. I've sold pins I have not even marketed for sale at all because people are dying to buy pins in that range. Overall I'd say yes, the market is saturated and only going to get worse in the near future, but the bigger offender are the buyers who overprice because they think they should be able to get 100% of all the $$$ they put into a brand new pin and mods when they go to resell.

    #12 3 years ago

    It's a combination of things, really.

    I currently have two nice older pins listed for sale here on pinside. A Haunted House and a Mystic. I have had some interest, but no trigger pullers. If the prices were dropped lower, I feel they would sell quicker, but I think they are currently priced okay. So it's a waiting game as a seller.

    One thing I do notice (and have for years) is many people ask way too much for their games. Some of it hinges on either being too greedy, or investing too much into a restore, mods or just fixing it, which should not dictate the current market value. Then there are some that just don't really care what they list it for. If it sells, great. If not, great. It's a game to them, just like the hobby is. Many many people have pinball machines because they like them, not because they can play them well.

    A lot of new games have been promised and pushed out, and the new stuff is really good stuff. If people can afford them, they want them. Some of the older games also have a cult like following in comparison to other pins, and naturally they sell easier. A game like Whirlwind or Elvira, are quick sells in general. So many people grew up or played that game somewhere 20 years ago, so it tugs at them as a buyer. Of course, pricing is everything though.

    The bottom line is, they made hundreds of thousands of pinball machines, and they continue to do so. There is always something to buy, so I believe some have figured out how to be patient.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    I always get a kick out of seeing the for sale posts for used Stern pins at retail price or more that you can still by NIB.

    This^
    But the same can be said for some of the older Williams games too, like Wh20 and Shadow. When I start seeing those prices creeping in the high 3's and low 4's for a 20 year old routed cleaned up pin with a ton of plays on it, I think ''hmm..what FRESH NIB does Stern have right now?''

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    #14 3 years ago

    Pinsiders are pricing games way too high these days, and seem to have very little wiggle room.

    People are asking retail prices and this isn't a retail forum.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Pinsiders are pricing games way too high these days, and seem to have very little wiggle room.
    People are asking retail prices and this isn't a retail forum.

    They always kind of have been priced too high.

    I can't remember a time I haven't bent with the buyer to make the sale. It's just not worth it to me not to. Sometimes I counter, but I flex. Some people have gotten some big discounts from me too.

    I try to be fair, because as a buyer the word ''firm'' kind of blows.

    #16 3 years ago

    it seems like a lot of guys have completely cut themselves off from high end games and are buying several lower end games instead. Even guys that have six figures worth of games can't tolerate having that kinda $$ into one game. I personally won't buy anything NIB or above $4k. Heck, $3K is probably my max right now unless i get an excellent deal. There was a point where i had 5 games worth about $30K retail at my place but now i only have $5K worth of games.

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    #17 3 years ago

    I'll be honest here. If I want a pinball machine gone, I don't break out the calculator and figure every last dime I spent on it including shipping + another 5-10%. It's not going away that way. I'll take a loss and consider that money spent for time played and send it on it's way and then get on with something else. But that's just me..

    #18 3 years ago

    it is definitely slower down here. used to be cheaper and mid range games got snapped up but lately they seem to sit awhile at great prices.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I'll take a loss and consider that money spent for time played

    same here. I went through and figured out where i sit with the games i've sold and i am exactly even after 10 sales. I've "lost" as much as $700 and made as much as $1K on another.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    same here. I went through and figured out where i sit with the games i've sold and i am exactly even after 10 sales. I've "lost" as much as $700 and made as much as $1K on another.

    Like anything else, sometimes the first buyer turns out to be the only real buyer. Better to work with him than have to dick around for months sending pictures and answering questions. Like I said, when I want something gone, I want it gone. The sooner the better.

    #21 3 years ago

    Cheap games are still getting snapped up pretty quick. $2k+ games seem to be sitting around for a while.

    It's not that unusual for a high-ticket item to languish for a short time...however we were enjoying a short period of a high number of rapid transactions. Now there seems to be a bit of fatigue as funds run out and folks button down the hatches for the winter.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    sometimes the first buyer turns out to be the only real buyer.

    all 10 of my games sold to the first person that came to look at them.

    #23 3 years ago

    Just have to be quick and resourceful in general. The most I've ever paid for a pin is $1700. Deals are out there.

    #24 3 years ago

    last 3 WW threads are $6000, 4500, and 3950 or something close to those numbers lol. Really nice examples but not much of a market for a $6000 whirlwind.

    #25 3 years ago

    Normally this time of year this topic comes up, however I believe saturation may soon be a problem, tons of new machines being pumped into to market, with all the new manufacturers it's clear sales are good. People are really maxing out their collections right now.

    The day will come when the collector says, "I haven't played these in a few months, I suppose we should sell 1/2 of them". Not quite being ready to let go completely. The hobby remains but and I would expect the "keepers" value to remain strong, but the "okay" titles will bleed as they continue to hit the market. Just my thoughts

    #26 3 years ago

    Summary: New games are expensive, so while we are still seeing healthy sales of new and used at the $2-4k range, going above that requires tougher justification. At $5k+ most buyers need to sell a game to get another, and that this churn requires a constant increase in the buyer pool to avoid across the board price depression.

    In other words there is an important value proposition at play: if a $2k game provides almost as much fun as a $4k game the $4k game will sit longer on the sales block. If a $2k game provides even half as much fun as an $8k game, then purchasing two or three $2k games is a no brainer. I'm still waiting for the boutique manufacturer to come out with a new SS era design w/modern features to hit that fun/pricing sweet spot that will turn the industry on its ears. $3k is the price where a NIB impulse buy is not a big deal. Sounds so cheap today because it's easy to forget only the past 5 years has seen NIB (and used) blow past the $3k price point, and that includes B/W games.

    #27 3 years ago

    Definitely the higher end market has slowed quite a bit. I also think it's due to the impending remakes - who is going to invest in a high end AFM when you may be able to buy a new remake next year (or insert all the other possible remake titles here)? It took forever to sell my Tron LE at $9k. 6 months ago I doubt that would have been the case.

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    #28 3 years ago

    Sales happen when the price is right, every time.

    #29 3 years ago

    If they are priced well for the condition and have sought after mods then they usually sell quickly . Seems everyone plays them for a while and dont do anything to them but put wear and tear on them and then they expect to get 500 more than they paid which is why prices are getting higher and higher which eventually gets so high they dont sell.

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    This^
    But the same can be said for some of the older Williams games too, like Wh20 and Shadow. When I start seeing those prices creeping in the high 3's and low 4's for a 20 year old routed cleaned up pin with a ton of plays on it, I think ''hmm..what FRESH NIB does Stern have right now?''

    I perfer the older pins to new stuff so it dont bother me as long as the stay cheaper than a nib pro which is around 4800.

    #31 3 years ago

    I think it's a short lull. A bunch of games got sold at the York show (I assume Expo also).

    No new titles or shows coming up.

    But... Holidays are coming, which usually injects activity as people entertain more inside.

    I also think sellers are holding tight to prices knowing that holidays are coming.

    #32 3 years ago

    I've never had much trouble selling pins...I put more work into mine than most people.

    My problem is...I find it hard to put a pin up for sale after putting so much work into them.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from indypinhead:

    I've never had much trouble selling pins...I put more work into mine than most people.
    My problem is...I find it hard to put a pin up for sale after putting so much work into them.

    Im with you on that one I just had a offer to buy 4 of my 7 pins and it was a great offer. I put so much time into them its hard to sell sometimes but we worked a deal on 2 of mine so all is good . ?

    #34 3 years ago

    It's just the pre-holiday/spent my money at the shows calm down period. Been like this since I sold my first pin 15 years ago. Usually after Turkey day things start picking up pace, Prices start going crazy. Heck between now and T-day is the time I buy most of my pins and have got great deals. Even on Epay you can snag a few. And parts are dirt cheap. I remember several years ago. One seller was holding penny starting bids with no reserve on ebay. I put a bid of a buck on everything and lets just say I got two van loads for less then $10.00
    But with as many pins coming out next year you can expect those over priced games to start coming down in a hurry.

    #35 3 years ago

    Funny how no one on here mentions the current state of the economy!

    It's not good people! Consumer debt is at an all-time high, honestly I don't know how a middle class family of four can afford to live these days. IMO they are existing.....not living.

    Remember in 2008 when the economy crashed...interest rates dropped....allowing consumers the ability to refinance and restructure that debt.

    Well here we are in 2015.....the debt is still there and growing! The stock market which is paper wealth and not real wealth is shaky at best and will continue to move sideways for the next 5-7 years.

    We have larger economic bubbles now than we did in 2008 and when they pop consumers will no longer be able to restructure their debt like they did after 2008 because interest rates are at rock bottom levels now.....there won't be an easy way out of the next recession which IMHO is rapidly approaching!

    Expect Deflation....as for pinball prices who knows but I feel like they've peaked and should start to fall in the year ahead!

    #36 3 years ago

    Just wait until the global economy starts tanking next year. What goes up, must come down and we're long overdue for correction. I'm willing to bet more used pins will become available for sale in the next couple of years. And not at ridiculous prices like the guy who has his HUO MMR listed for $13,500 in the Pinside Marketplace.

    *I posted seconds after Chicoman. Glad to know I'm not the only one concerned.

    Dow_Jones.jpg

    #37 3 years ago

    I do think we've hit the ceiling on prices for used games, and that may contribute to the slow down. I also think people are holding onto their cash because of rumors of great machines on the horizon.

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I do think we've hit the ceiling on prices for used games, and that may contribute to the slow down. I also think people are holding onto their cash because of rumors of great machines on the horizon.

    Not to hijack the topic but i guess I've been living under a rock what are the rumors.

    #39 3 years ago

    I kinda felt almost the opposite as someone who has been eyeballing the forums for a few weeks for a semi close ACDC premium I felt like no one was selling not so much they were sitting. I mean yeah that Luci is sitting but its also rather expensive not over priced just expensive IMO. And I'm looking for a premium not Luci. I guess theres not to many machines in my wheelhouse of interest at the moment either. Personally I sold my Hulk Le last spring and it was gone in a day (i did put it up with a No BS price of 4600 though)

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from highdef:

    Just wait until the global economy starts tanking next year. What goes up, must come down and we're long overdue for correction. I'm willing to bet more used pins will become available for sale in the next couple of years. And not at ridiculous prices like the guy who has his HUO MMR listed for $13,500 in the Pinside Marketplace.
    *I posted seconds after Chicoman. Glad to know I'm not the only one concerned.
    Dow_Jones.jpg

    There is room to go up. We are still inventing ways to make fake money. This should continue for some time. Even the other big economies now are into fake money.

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from bouncerclub:

    Not to hijack the topic but i guess I've been living under a rock what are the rumors.

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    For the $2,000 range it has never been easier for me. I've sold pins I have not even marketed for sale at all because people are dying to buy pins in that range.

    Not the case for me, I cant sell my nice LAH for $1700, it's a reimport and has a funky coin door....I don't want to ship though.

    #43 3 years ago

    He said harder.

    #44 3 years ago

    wait until people who shouldn't be buying pins get their tax returns so they can buy pins

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I'll be honest here. If I want a pinball machine gone, I don't break out the calculator and figure every last dime I spent on it including shipping + another 5-10%. It's not going away that way. I'll take a loss and consider that money spent for time played and send it on it's way and then get on with something else. But that's just me..

    Exactly! Sometimes it's just a matter of taking the loss and calling it a day. If you want a game to move quick, drop it a bit below the expected market price. It will move.

    Every hobby has a cost. And it is crazy to think we can own pinball machines and make money every time. Just try and keep it fairly even over time, and it will work out fine.

    #46 3 years ago

    I was waiting for someone to mention this. The real economy, that is, the economy that you and I live in, is getting worse by the day for a number of reasons. The pinball market, like any market (whether collector autos, antiques, or whatever) is a non-essential market, and as such it is sensitive to the overall condition of the economy. Personally I'd love to buy a few machines, and I've been looking, but my money is going to other things which are only increasing in cost. Eventually I'll buy a machine, but I have a feeling that there will be some fire sales coming within a year or two, so I'm keeping my eyes open and my powder dry. As I've noted to others I've talked to about this topic, one non-scientific indicator of the true state of the economy that I track casually is used cars for sale. I don't think I've ever seen as many used cars for sale in parking lots, etc. at cheap prices as I have in the last twelve to eighteen months. A lot of people are feeling the pinch of this so called economic recovery (which I feel is a recovery in name only).

    #47 3 years ago

    .

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from Chicoman:

    Funny how no one on here mentions the current state of the economy!
    It's not good people! Consumer debt is at an all-time high, honestly I don't know how a middle class family of four can afford to live these days. IMO they are existing.....not living.
    Remember in 2008 when the economy crashed...interest rates dropped....allowing consumers the ability to refinance and restructure that debt.
    Well here we are in 2015.....the debt is still there and growing! The stock market which is paper wealth and not real wealth is shaky at best and will continue to move sideways for the next 5-7 years.
    We have larger economic bubbles now than we did in 2008 and when they pop consumers will no longer be able to restructure their debt like they did after 2008 because interest rates are at rock bottom levels now.....there won't be an easy way out of the next recession which IMHO is rapidly approaching!
    Expect Deflation....as for pinball prices who knows but I feel like they've peaked and should start to fall in the year ahead!

    As someone who watched their 401K tank a few years ago when the market crashed, I have to say I looked at all that money vanish (paper wealth like you said) and thought to myself, I wish I would have spent some of it. At least I would have something tangible at the end of the day. People think I am (we are) crazy spending the money we do on a "toy" but think nothing about losing 20G in a market correction.
    I'll play Metallica while they check their statements...
    And no, I didn't cash my 401 to pay for pins, I just look at the spending differently.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Not the case for me, I cant sell my nice LAH for $1700, it's a reimport and has a funky coin door....I don't want to ship though.

    Gyah.

    I need to sell some games and get that from you.

    #50 3 years ago

    Anytime your north of 4k it is harder to move a pin IMO.
    Unless you have a collector that sees value it, it will sit a while.

    From what I have heard even NIB sales have slowed since spring.
    We are going into the sellers market which will be up to two weeks prior to Christmas.
    Now there is a second sellers market end of Jan to March ...tax return market.
    I have always been able to sell between second week of Jan and March.

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