I think people are expecting history to repeat itself with the release.

If there is any content in the machine from the 3rd movie (which I would hope there is), I would suspect that they can't release the pin until after the movie goes public, which is 6 weeks from now at a minimum...

BOO BOO

I would assume an announcement sometime Dec-January would makes a lot of sense as they are still selling TWD.

But I think this is a lot of speculation, unless Stern posts something on Facebook that supports the idea, I am not getting my hopes up in any way. However that color DMD for LOTR looks fantastic.

Any chance Stern would work with ColorDMD and provide their upgrade with a LOTR VE?

Stern's been doing some "outside the box" stuff lately....like building the MMr, Whoa Nellie, and accessories for TWD. Doesn't seems as crazy as it would a year ago.

I will bring the beers and see you there.

Some people buy games to play them. Maybe we should leave the economics of pinball to the companies that sell them? Maybe you don't play pinball Teekee, but this is an odd forum to hangout on if all you want to do is be the protector of the pinball market and belittle those that buy a machine that depreciates as soon as they buy it. These things were meant to be played not to be worth more money than you paid for them when you turn around and sell them. Sure it would be nice to always be in the black when you sell a machine but its not realistic.

They were meant to make money for operators, then tossed aside when beat to crap after having made several times over what was paid for them a decade later. So they were never meant to be collected, which is what made them collectible for some. So I can see how collectors would be upset. Being a player and not a collector, I don't think that way, but like with collecting anything there is always an inherent risk that it may become worthless. These will never become worthless, but loosing their value by $1000 over night does suck if you own one.

Yea, Stern's LE policy at the time was cosmetic upgrades only, so the value of LOTR LE is in the brass trim, extra CC playfield, mirrored backglass, and the "limited" aspect.

From a resolution standpoint I agree but at the end of the day they are still giant stickers which can lift on the edges and scratch easily. Personally I would rather have a screened cabinet even if it's lower resolution but also know I am in the minority. I know you like the decals on IM which is fine and we are entitled to our own opinions, but personally I don't see decals as being a better feature on any machine.

Well we're both right, they were meant to make money for operators and be played by us, without us, no money. Losing money on a game right when it is shipped brand new is no different than damn near any other product out there. I think Teekee got used to flipping games for thousands without any extra work and now the market is coming back to earth and to him we are all idiots for buying remakes of games we love.

Also that used to be what games were made for (the operators) but that was 10 years ago, now they have to deal with the home market so the definition has changed a bit and thats why manufacturers target home buyers and ops.

Businesses are more concerned about future sales than past sales... the devaluation that occurred in 2010 IMs due to the VE release was more than any Stern in recent memory, even the under-sold or maligned LEs like XM, AV, Mustang.

Every time I read something from someone making a statement about me when they actually don't know a thing about me it just makes me laugh… you have no clue and never will.

You and others just continue to miss the bigger point… so hung up on flippers and speculators some just can't think past their nose.

Anyone who thinks revenue doesn't matter, hasn't worked for a public company or PE backed company.

I don't care if people flip games, as for my "statement" it was a guess, that's why I lead with "I think". I can only go by your post history to come to a conclusion on who Teekee is. When you insult buyers constantly because they aren't into the hobby the same way you are I take offense to it. I don't hate anyone here just some things frustrate me.

If a guy buys a NIB rerelease of a machine that doesnt make him bad for the hobby, he just may really like that particular machine enough to buy it NIB cause he wants to play it and not worry about the economics of pinball or the national debt.

I was walking through there today and saw a big pallet of moving recognizers and fiber optic lit ramps. Probably just replacement stock for existing pins....

My comment was in reply to rarehero's post about stern not upsetting LE buyers. Hence my comment speculating if that's why they dumped the premium.

You forgot "$9200 for a BIBLE....I'd be all over that if I had the room". We should change his name to "pump and dump".

It would be nice if this VE gets a double clearcoat like the LE.
And every machine they sell for a high price should have this.

Not sure I believe in that extra clear coat.

Here's a video that accurately depicts this thread.

Do you mean it won't happen?
or that you don't need it?

Not Teekeenomics™?? Seems like a no-brainer (no pun intended).

Thank you, Gracias, Merci, Danka, Tack, Sapsibo, XieXie. While were at it can we STOP saying how much we're willing to pay for a remake or any game for that matter...Geez.

I don't think there is extra clear on any games

And all this time Aurich claimed he had me on ignore… now he's spreading Teekeenomics™

He's finally making himself useful!

Okay I see, I just heard that LOTR LE had clearcoat as an extra feature (like Tron LE), I forgot where I heard that.

IPDB "confirms" it. I can also confirm as I've owned/played both... Pro is closer to orange peel texture while LE is noticeably smoother.

http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=lotr&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#5558

Trust me, you can see the difference between LOTR LE and regular LOTR in the shine of the clearcoat.
Also the LOTR LE playfields tend to have the inserts nearly pefectly lined up with the art and the regular LOTR are hit and miss.
On an unrelated note,from what I have seen the early SM playfields are not as nice as the last run of SM.

^ I've owned both versions and agree the LE has the better clear coat

Maybe on the lotr but all current le vs pro games, I have not seen it.

I agree. It seems as though Stern improved their clearcoating quality somewhere around 2008-2009 for all models.

Excellent post. I am basically opposed to remakes because I think it's lazy and that it ultimately will hurt the manufacturers. The only reason why people spend between $4500 (pro) or 8K (LE) for a pin is because although it will most likely drop some, it will probably not drop thousands. With the exception of the few super rich pinheads out there, no one can lose thousands on a pinball machine. That's what remakes are going to cause to happen and that will cause people to take pause on future NIB purchases.

On the other hand, flippers like Teekee hate remakes too for the reasons that you stated very well. And if remakes reduce flipping, it's hard to be opposed to them.

I'm genuinely scared I knew exactly what that was without clicking on it. Left quite the impression after waking up in front of the tv right before it came on at 3am or whatever.

I just think this is fundamentally wrong for many pinheads....

I don't spend 4-8K on pinball based on some internal calculation of depreciation...

I know its been said before, but you never lose a penny on a machine unless you sell it.

I probably lost $2K-$3K ONE MINUTE after I took ownership of my last car... oh no!!! I didnt care, not becuase Im "super rich" (Im not), but because I bought that car to DRIVE. I buy pinball to play pinball.

So maybe im in the minority, but your statement inferred EVERYONE but the super-rich are infatuated with resale value- thats not true.

Everything we buy depreciates in value, we're used to it, even for things we're not passionate about and don't need. All those things add up to more then a few thousand dollars over the years.

Pinball machines can get pretty used-up over time and buying used from a stranger comes with risks. If the market sees a demand for reducing risks for a $1k fee, the market will supply it. Capitalism 101.

Yes, top line revenue is an important number on a balance sheet. I suppose saying it "doesn't matter" was an overstatement. Perhaps if I said "Profit matters more when it comes to staying in business"? My point of selling fewer machines at a higher cost being a viable and possibly more profitable approach still applies. Feel free to disagree though.

The pinball customer is limited in how many tables he can fit. It's much easier to saturate this market than any I can think of right now. Selling less volume but with a higher price tag is the better option in this industry, and it's also easier to manufacture a lower volume run.

Anyways, Stern already likes to use the concept of "limited" as a marketing tool.

I still have never killed him. Unless it happened during multiball and I didn't get to see it because of the active multiball.

I think I did it 3 times in 5ish years of ownership. Would like another shot on a VE...

Fair enough, but the thing that has supported the high initial price (NIB) of pinball machines is the expectation that it would not drop several thousand after the purchase. Take that assuredness away and it could be curtains for the pin companies, especially if they need to charge so much money to make money on a new pin.

A car is a bit different. Most people have to have one. And even with cars, you can go used and lose less (similar to a pin purchase, I suppose).

Huh? Common sense says used is worth less than unopened. The thing supporting the initial high price of pins is the fact it's cherry and you got the new hotness. Speculation came later with the flood of new money in the hobby.

Stern is super busy at the moment making at the moment twd le's, then they need to make some more pro's because they sold all their pros at the moment and they need to built some more pros after the LE 's production and aren't they going to built planetary pinball mmr's in the stern factory ? I really don't see any Vault Editions coming out soon ....but that's my opinion ...

If Stern can at all possible run 500-1000 LotR's with included color DMD's, announced around the time Hobbits start to ship, I would be unsurprised to see them do so to try to hurt Jack's business as much as they can with as little investment on their end as possible.

If you're not going to join "them", beat them. "Them" being competitors that have stepped up their game. Stern has had years to try to jump forwards, I assume just putting the screws to their competition is easier than trying to catch up at this point.

Cue conspiracy theory that Phil from Dutch pinball was actually hired away by Stern, or at least paid the budget from TWD's voice actors to go away . Probably untrue... probably

When do they move to the new plant? Im guessing there will be extra capacity at the new factory which they will be keen to fill. But might take some time until its all up and running.

The appeal of TeeKeeNomics as a discipline is the "no-Brain" requirement for practitioners!

Yup. Giving us all a good chuckle!

You probably gave the most clear-cut explanation for high pin prices. Why flood the market and consume all that space with cheaper machines?

I heard the Troll licence expired.

Removed. Not funny