Not at all. It blows my mind that you would not want a safe, reliable, well funded, national service, that you could depend on to transport goods across your country. Something mandated to serve every person promptly. (In Canada I can use Canada post to deliver a letter to virtually anywhere in the country in 3 days. Parcels take longer depending on what you pay, but you can overnight most things for a reasonable rate, and know it will get there.)

You would never want to third party contract out fire or police service, why do you want that competition in mail? I understand the need for a third party business to offer additional options to consumers, but not having a well protected government service, well, it just seems like a National security Issue

unprecedented

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-20/usps-cutbacks-post-office-chaos?fbclid=IwAR3ueMxmgTRy4Y11cWCo07bfBshVPH-BEzxeVYLpcMNire82i3eOJcgQEzg

It is amazing how people outside the US are able to get it...while some of our own citizens can't look past the politics. We already have postal competition, and losing USPS will hurt everyone. Fedex will charge you $11 to deliver a letter in 3 days across the country. USPS is 55 cents.

55 cents is too cheap. But a buck is reasonable

This is what the stooges don’t get. It’s a SERVICE. In the Constitution for crying out loud.

We don’t run the sewage treatment plant like a for profit corp...think of all the services you get as a citizen. Clean air, clean water, safe food...these aren’t corporations. They are being systematically weakened for political reasons and USPS has been a target for years. The fuckstick running USPS owns millions in stock in USPS private competition.

as a non-American, we love USPS here. Never had an issue, but this is just an anecdote.
When people accidentally send stuff from America via UPS I get a bad feeling, and it's a coin flip as to if there is going to be massive delay, falsely reported delivery attempts, and/or a $60 after-the-fact charge for extra handling on their part.

USPS has made shipping to Canada a breeze. The customs form is pretty much automatically populated, and then you just print it out and sign/date. I feel bad it costs you guys $16-$20 for most parcels, but its been pretty darn reliable for me so far.

Ship a couple parcels a day for the past 6 or so years. Only a few issues in all that time. In the last month, slower, none lost yet thankfully. Schedule a pickup has been “unavailable” a few times which has never ever happened to me previously.

Notice how the story conveniently moves between changes to LETTER processing to stories about package delays and keeping up with package processing?

Hint: Letter sorting machines don't process packages....

Notice what's also missing in the story? Discussion of worker attendance and counts during COVID (which package volume soared)

First Class mail was down 8% last quarter compared to prior year... Packages... up 53%!!

So package handling is up over 50% during covid.. workers are hindered by COVID processes... sales and income from their bread and butter like mass marketing is down... And people are shocked there are package processing delays?

Pay attention to the details people... not stories that weave all kinds of different impacts as if they were the same thing.

The constitution doesn't mandate a postal service. It declares post and mail routes a power of the fed (because all powers not called out, defer to the states).

Actually most places do - they are regulated utilities - not always public government entities. Same way your electric and gas are generally private utilities. Some are actual corporations... many are entities stood up under utility commissions and funded through services and fees (wait for it... just like the USPS)

You're simply wrong. Most are regulated industries who operate under service standards and controls enacted by government. (gasp.. like the USPS does too!)

The USPS has been defaulting on payments and maxxed out it's debt to the treasury over 10 years ago. We've had both Democrats and Republicans leading our legislative and executive branches during this time. The last major reform that setup the biggest red flag everyone is waving was approved by EVERY DEMOCRAT in the House and Senate.. and all but 20 Republicans.

Who is the one pulling the strings of this systematic effort so consistently over this period?

Cherry picking stats and inserting false titles --> Useless Crap.

Look at the documented USPS plans for equipment reduction dated MAY (aka before DeJoy) and including more than battleground states (like California).

Yeah, CA is on there, but mess with enough of it in CA maybe eek out a win? Granted, not gonna get 4 million, but it's not all about WH, there are other seats to win

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https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7035434-USPS-Equipment-Reduction-Plan.html#document/p1

During Covid... package processing loads SOAR...
- UPS reported 21% growth in daily package avg in Q2
- USPS reported 53% growth in package volume during the quarter ending June

During the same period, USPS reported marketing mail was down 37%. First class down almost 9%.

How do companies react?
- Amazon rapidly adds capacity
- Fedex and UPS suspend guarantees
- USPS continues to cut expenses and turns its back on service expectations

The increasingly under utilized letter sorting machines.. which are processing a mail volume that is declining 10% a year (and has been on this trend for almost 25 years)... are not the cause of your package delays.

It's the lack of response to INCREASE capacity in processing packages during a BOOM in demand while concurrently denying your existing capacity from expanding by limits on spending and labor.

You fired people in a pandemic to make sure no one else complains about your changes? yikes

I thought USPS was a government service, made to serve the Constitution, not a traditional business? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Clause

Postal Clause is true - but everything else you said is not.

The postal clause exists to make the power of creating a mail system a power reserved for the federal government. Our constitution is setup so that the federal government is limited and (is supposed to) only have the powers called out in the constitution. Establishing a postal system is one of those powers.

Just like the power to declare war is reserved for congress - that doesn't mean they MUST do it or do it as a service.

The USPS is a self-funded entity expected to raise operating budget through fees and usage. Meaning, it is not funded as part of normal government budgeting. There are many such examples in our government - most people just aren't aware because they see it as 'government' and think its a publicaly funded thing. Employees of many of these entities get to be treated as federal workers too... further obfuscating the boundary for many.

The USPS has to make money - otherwise it has no money to invest back into making changes to update, grow, etc. When the USPS is in a deficit, it must borrow to pay its expenses... all of this is just like a regular business. The USPS has been borrowing billions from the US treasury as a loans (just like someone would from a bank) to fund shortfalls. The differences are the USPS is heavily regulated in what it's allowed to do, how it can raise revenues, etc. Also, because it's "too big to fail" - it gets lots of special considerations that a regular business wouldn't. Like congress and the treasury cutting deals on their defaults, giving them special loans, changing their liabilities, etc.

The notion of how the USPS is funded is not under debate at all. It's been setup this way for nearly 50 years.

What is happening now is people have this distorted idea that because something is 'government' that means it doesn't have to live by budgets and somehow money isn't an issue. Or the common misconception "they aren't supposed to make a profit". Profit is how they pay to do things. What they aren't supposed to do is make profit for the gain of others. Much like a non-profit.. the point of positive net revenue is intended to fund operations.

flynnibus you seem to deeply care about this, do you have a personal stake in it? Also you don’t seem to mention the pre-funding of pensions for 75 years.

“ In 2006, Congress passed a law that imposed extraordinary costs on the U.S. Postal Service. The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA) required the USPS to create a $72 billion fund to pay for the cost of its post-retirement health care costs, 75 years into the future. This burden applies to no other federal agency or private corporation. “

How do you justify this?

https://ips-dc.org/how-congress-manufactured-a-postal-crisis-and-how-to-fix-it/

Edit. The key point is “no other federal or private corporation” why does USPS need this?

A stake in having people around me making informed conclusions... yes. Because they are also my fellow citizens and voters. In the USPS or politics? No

I've mentioned it numerous times. In fact I've posted 3 direct articles so people can actually understand what, why, and how it really is a factor right now. It's a highly misunderstood thing. I've tried to get people educated on the topic rather than taking other people's conclusions as one-liners. That's why I linked analysis of WHY it was created, I've cited WHO was behind it, who supported it, WHAT it really is, and the history of actions and analysis of it since it was created. Specifically the congressional report from 2009, and other cites that discuss the 2010 modifications, and reviews from 2016 - so they aren't polluted with today's 2020 noise. Would you like those links and highlights?

People keep making all kinds of claims about it being the boogyman... but
- Pre-funding of liabilities is not in itself wrong
- It's not 'for 75 years' - the 75 years is the window over which the costs are assessed
- While it's a HUGE problem that needs addressing - it's not the thing causing the immediate problems we are facing. The USPS has this obligation - BUT THEY AREN'T PAYING IT
- It's a model that was setup with bipartisan support - not some assasin's theory... and has been ignored by both parties for the last 10 years in terms of modernizing it's needs
- It's a huge problem, but it's not the thing holding them back right now... they are basically ignoring it!

Here's a rundown https://www.forbes.com/sites/ebauer/2020/04/14/post-office-pensions--some-key-myths-and-facts/#514311d747f5 - again from before all the drumph mess complicated all the messaging. Take special note... this article refers to the PENSION funding and health benefits funding - TWO DIFFERENT topics.. remember that when reading.

That is another distortion of the facts. Plenty of people pre-fund their health care obligations. This specific requirement only applies to the USPS because it was part of a law aimed at reforming the post office.

The real burden of the change was it required them to build up their fund on an aggressive 10 year schedule (because they had none!). That schedule was aggressive to start... and then went to shit after the 2008 recession. The crime IMO is that even after the USPS defaulted on this model 10 years ago... congress has still done nothing to fix it.

If you read nothing else and have a hard on for the prefunded health care funding... read only this

---
In addition, with respect to financial reporting, here are the key figures for 2019:

Healthcare benefits paid out of the Benefit Fund: $3.7 billion.

Normal costs scheduled to be paid into the Benefit Fund to cover current year’s current employees’ retiree healthcare cost accruals: $3.775 billion.

Amortization payments scheduled to be made into the fund: $789 million.

Overall net loss for the year: $8.8 billion.

The math just doesn’t work to blame retiree healthcare contributions for the USPS’s losses. The amount they are recording on their P&L for retiree healthcare costs (which, again, they aren’t paying out in cash) — $4.564 billion — is only moderately more ($800 - $900 million, depending on rounding) than the amount that they would be paying out directly for pay-as-you-go benefits had the PAEA never been implemented.
---

the USPS under the prepay plan was set to pay 3.775+0.7789 = $4.5 billion in 2019... what they are paying for their real costs RIGHT NOW (pay as you go) $3.7 billion.

As you can see.. the prepay plan isn't the reason the USPS is losing multi-billions. It's being recorded on paper as a huge loss, but it's not actual money going out the door... and the numbers aren't that off from what they are paying w/o the preplay plan now.

Perhaps you should make it part of the Federal Service then? No one balks at the Pentagon budgets.

You may need to try harder. No one is believing your posts. Just because an industry or company is regulated doesn't mean it has to turn a profit. I wasn't in management at the USPS but I worked on and repaired these machines every day for 24 years. I just retired in January so I do know of recent developments. I saw mail volume change a great deal over the years. Yes letter mail volume has decreased significantly over the years and it will continue to drop. It is not just easy to remove letter sorters and install parcel sorters. The companies that make these require years in advance to make, troubleshoot, and be accepted by the Service. The parcel sorters are very large machines that require larger and more robust lifts to dump the mail to feed the machines. It takes larger containers known as wire containers, over the road, and pigpens. The footprint required for the machines and the empty equipment is huge. It is a logistical nightmare.

These drop box and sorting machine removals may have been in the pipeline before the new PM took office, but he should have been aware of it. The Service has been aware of not doing any major service changes during major elections for over 25 years. Maybe he cut the throat of so many knowledgeable people that they allowed him to cut his own. The Service is very aware of these changes, not just for mail in voting but also campaign materials that have to be sorted by letter machines.

The Service is very understaffed because it has always been cheaper to use overtime than to hire more people. The Service also has obligations to honor the Collective Bargaining Agreements with the three Postal Unions. This means any wholesale changes to the staffing requires notifying and coordinating these changes with the Unions, otherwise adding to the backlog of grievances to the system. Staffing is increasing difficult because relying on overtime means if one person is out sick and that person works 60 hours a week then you are really down one and a half persons. These workers have no choice but to work in close proximity to other possible covid workers. They also have to worry about anthrax and other toxins present in and on parcels.

The service has been penny pinching for decades. The machines are old and worn out after being run 24/7 for 25 years. I saw portable conveyors that were over 50 years old. The Service milked every bit of life out of these old machines. Siemens did not require these DBCS upgrades. The machines are owned by the Service and aren't forced by the manufacturers to change or upgrade any more than Stern requires one to upgrade their pinball machines.

The Service is vital to those who live in rural areas as its the only way for them to get their mail. No other for profit companies want to purchase the Service because of the costly requirement to provide affordable, reliable mail service to the entire nation.

Welcome to US politics... everything is ignored until it impacts 'me'...

The US went through a period of de-regulation and shedding government ownership of things in the 70s and 80s. It was a huge boom to most. The US Gov handling of things is usually considered extremely inefficient. The USPS is probably second only to the DMV for general disgust for customer interactions.

Rolling the USPS back into government from it's current setup will shift the problem. Government agencies still run on budgets and must be funded through Congressional appropriations. So if the agency is running incredibly ineffectively - you still have politicians arguing over how much funding they should get.. vs trying to force them to better themselves.

This is basically what happens in most areas over education... just because it gets gov funding doesn't change the fundamental challenges of operating well. In the US, it's usually the opposite... the lack of accountability and competition usually leads to subpar experiences.

TLDR - if the USPS gets loans or budget from congress - It doesn't change their fundamental issues and things they are facing. And if it follows most US gov implementations.. it only makes it worse.

The one saving grace in that would be is.. USPS already largely looks like a congressional appropriated agency. All federal employees with appointed leadership.. and no direct competition.

USPS is currently a complete clusterfuck; either my orders simply get lost in limbo or they take 10+ weeks to get delivered. Only using UPS, DHL, FedEX from now on.

Let me guess, your favorite section of Disney is Fantasy Land.

CNN is no better than Fox and vice versa. It’s all a huge crock of bs.

Just now received a USPS First Class package that took 2 days coast to coast delivered to my front door California to Maryland, so I can’t complain with their service delivery times on this package and others I’ve received this year.

It not because of regulated or not - it's based on what your financial funding model is. If you don't get money handed to by congress, you have to have a net profit else you don't have money to do things. If you don't turn a profit - you don't have money to do capital improvements, grow, etc. If you only break even, you can never fund changes.

It's like every condo association, building association, etc. They need money --beyond-- their actual 'right now' expenses to fund reserve accounts or fund new expenses.

People have this distorted idea of what 'profit' is. Profit is simply the net positive of operations... what you do with it and how much you aspire to have... is where the difference between types of organizations comes in. Do you hand that money over to stakeholders, or do you roll it back into the business. "USPS profit" doesn't goto the postmaster or the government or other lunacy - It goes to the assets the USPS has to meet it's obligations. It's critical to a healthy organization so they can adapt and improve service.

As you pointed out... the USPS is understaffed, cheap, and pinching pennies on their equipment and has been this way for decades. And STILL woefully behind on their obligations. They need to right their ship in terms of operating expenses and right sizing themselves to what the market and future of the USPS will be.

I think DeJoy looks like a crook and drumph's meddling is disgusting. But "keep doing the same" wasn't working either... so people need to understand what they are critical of if they want to lobby for change.

It’s also Fed X , I have been waiting 10 days on an order from pinball Life, and I’m told it’s at the hub they’re just backed up. Bob is 30 miles from my house.

HUB. Siri.

What a surprise. Turning the postal thread into a political football.

Should be shut down

Provides ZERO value

If they're even bothering to read them. Brevity is a good thing.

Just imagine if this happened with the actual Postal Service.

Technically you're wrong. In spirit I hear you. But going by data, not supported.

"A new study by Bruce Bartlett, a conservative economist, top official in the H.W. Bush administration and domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan, concluded that Fox News viewers tend to be less informed and engage in "self-brainwashing."

http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/politics/fox-news-viewers-tend-to-be-less-informed-says-new-study/article/433762

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/07/21/a-rigorous-scientific-look-into-the-fox-news-effect/#761478df12ab

1. It was turned into a political football because of WH
2. Should be shut down is your opinion
3. How can you say it provides 0 value? also your opinion

Lol. # cancel culture. Only one side opinion matters

If politics are allowed in this thread then let’s tee it up and go at it properly

Here’s one for you. Can you hear the sound of the swirling water?

I'm not even sure what your argument is here.

To clarify, data and evidence > opinion.

No, I’m sure don’t get it

The rules seem lost on you

As in shutting down my opinion and then discussing politics with the USPS

If you’d like to debate me on the facts and look foolish just pm me. It’s better that way

Seems like it’s allowed in this one

In the same sense, people are only "caring" now as a result of this being tied to Trump and the upcoming election. A year ago, and a year from now, any grandstanders won't even be heard whistling in the wind.

Not to mention, parts for these machines are most likely unattainable.

Omg. I’m so worried about my pinball mods arriving timely!

I’d like to get a Jurassic Park shooter rod delivered by any service!!!!!

Mine were in the P.O. box this morning.
I had to cut one down to a dagger for the mini flipper.

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New eBay ship message and some bad feedback.

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I'm not sure if this tracks outside of the USA. Like with education, competition doesn't make it better. It just guts the public system, which is the bedrock of society. (At least in Canada and other "developed nations")
So that instinct of "squeeze efficiencies and ramp up competition" might seem intuitive to many people, but not everyone sees it that way when it comes to the more fundamental government services. (and yeah there is a huuuuge gulf in perspectives there)
The motivation to improve and find efficiencies come from honest pride in service.

can't say I disagree with the iceman here, but it's been fun and informative regardless!

They made a Rescue 911 pin, they could totally due a USPS pin! Not kitschy and gimmicky, but like one that celebrates their history, the way Rescue 911 is respectful of first responders.

Oh come on now. That is hardly fair to you.

But it also brings diversity... If option 1 doesn't want to embrace a need... if there is no option 2... you're stuck. Competition and opportunity encourages risk taking. Uniformity can often lead to complacency... even when one has the best intentions.

You mention pride in service.. and unfortunately that is where the stereotype of the federal worker kicks in quite negatively here. When dealing with a huge pool of workers... they never have greatness in all of them... and the labor model makes it very difficult to prune out that dead wood. And employees know it.. so there even becomes an enticement for some to allow things to slip.. because they fear little retribution. Where as the private section is prototypically more cut-throat. These are stereotypes of course.. and do not apply to every person.. but the problems are systematic.

The DMV is a prime example of the running joke of general disinterest in customer satisfaction or excelling. They hold all the cards... you play by their rules.. and customers have no say or recourse. The generally just 'exist' and have no motivation to excel. Again.. stereotypes.. but they come from experience, not out of thin air.

The house hearing with DeJoy should be interesting. I only saw clips from today, but he didn't seem the most put together speaker.

USPS's posture towards service is weird.

For instance when we have consistent problems with our mail carrier... its basically impossible to get to the local supervisor responsible to field those complaints. They just make themselves unavailable...
Anytime we goto our local post office... it's always a long line and there is maybe 1 or 2 clerks tops. Insult to injury... their hours. Our local branch is open 11am-2pm (so no going before work..) and 3-5pm.. so no going AFTER work either.

I am lucky that I live near an airport so there is a bigger branch within a reasonable drive from me that has more reasonable 9-6pm hours. But that branch has similar wait time issues. Makes the whole experience quite a drag.

I do love me some flat-rate mail pricing tho!

I'm down with fun. Pinballers are getting their nads in a wad because their mods are getting delivered a day or two late? LOL. Nope, its a politics thing. After Nov. 3rd we can go back to nobody gives a shit about the post office

I like the postal dude that shows up at my mail box daily.

I paid for a JP shooter rod from Gameroom Classics out of Georgia.

I check every other day to see if it shows up. It's a highlight of my boring day.

When its NOT there i don't blame the postal guy. I know it's Stern's fault

The IPS article you referenced is not un-biased, considering who commissioned the article: American Postal Workers Union. Also, despite them attesting to being non partisan, mediabiasfactcheck.com has them listed as leaning pretty far left, but factual.

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