Sawdust or bust. Let’s see some.
(Topic ID: 243180)
Linked Games
Black Knight Sword of Rage (Pro)
Stern, 2019
Topic Gallery
Pearland, TX
Look....I don’t think 2 holes and 2 buttons will devalue the game at all. Has ANYONE devalued a Fun House that has the beer tourney mod....NOPE. Put the buttons on and leave the lockdown bar button on as well so people can play either way.
Quoted from Extraballz:Next we will hear they outlawed the good magnets around the time of the demise of Diamond plate.
They did. The old magnets didn't dimple either.
I'd wire the magnasave up to the coin door slam tilt personally. Kick the coin door, save the ball. Those would be some impressive reflexes.
Quoted from Pickle:Look....I don’t think 2 holes and 2 buttons will devalue the game at all. Has ANYONE devalued a Fun House that has the beer tourney mod....NOPE. Put the buttons on and leave the lockdown bar button on as well so people can play either way.
What is the Funhouse beer tourney mod? Seriously have never heard of it.
HEY LOOK I REMEMBERED... finally.
The Magna-Save button on my BK2K is 1-3/4" (center-to-center) from the flipper button, and the same distance from the top rail (thus just slightly above the other button).
Since it's a System 11, technically the rail is a lot wider and the button goes INTO the rail, but you get the idea.
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:HEY LOOK I REMEMBERED... finally.
The Magna-Save button on my BK2K is 1-3/4" (center-to-center) from the flipper button, and the same distance from the top rail (thus just slightly above the other button).
[quoted image]
Since it's a System 11, technically the rail is a lot wider and the button goes INTO the rail, but you get the idea.
The dual buttons being horizontal is a much more comfortable placement then vertical. No idea why stern went vertical on the munsters. The Shadow and BK2K feel great, munsters not so much.
Sterns current cab and playfield design won't allow for a horizontal install of a second button. I fully was going to try installing a second button for the magna save, I could care less about resale value, but as you can see the playfield rests against the washer that holds the flipper buttons t-nut in place. There is no room for a second button without chopping the trough apart. The auto-plunge mech would also get in the way of the old school style of a second button.
20190520_213252 (resized).jpg20190520_213324 (resized).jpgQuoted from Thrillhouse:Sterns current cab and playfield design won't allow for a horizontal install of a second button. I fully was going to try installing a second button for the magna save, I could care less about resale value, but as you can see the playfield rests against the washer that holds the flipper buttons t-nut in place. There is no room for a second button without chopping the trough apart. The auto-plunge mech would also get in the way of the old school style of a second button.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Seems slightly counter intuitive, but how about in front of the left flipper?
Quoted from Mvfvette1:What is the Funhouse beer tourney mod? Seriously have never heard of it.
This was a thing a few years back. Don’t think my buddy came up with the idea or was the first to do it. Add a second button on the left to control the right flipper. Play with your left hand and you must hold a beverage in your right hand. Highest score wins. It’s quite entertaining to see how bad most are playing one handed especially after a few drinks.
Can’t you install it same as Munsters premium/le?
I could copy my BK and post that but it seems the stern pf may interfere...
Quoted from northvibe:Can’t you install it same as Munsters premium/le?
Or the same as Rolling Stones LE. I wonder if you would be able to get a pair of lollipop rails(use as template) and if they would line up with current factory buttons. I do like the placement of extra button on RSLE and relate it to BKSOF because of the timing necessary to initiate the pop up lane save(same position as Magna).
RS LE.jpgPinball Life sells button guard side rails for Munsters premium. https://www.pinballlife.com/stern-side-armor-with-holes.html
Quoted from Thrillhouse:Sterns current cab and playfield design won't allow for a horizontal install of a second button. I fully was going to try installing a second button for the magna save, I could care less about resale value, but as you can see the playfield rests against the washer that holds the flipper buttons t-nut in place. There is no room for a second button without chopping the trough apart. The auto-plunge mech would also get in the way of the old school style of a second button.
[quoted image][quoted image]
So this answers the question of why Stern didn’t put the magnasave button where it should have been,
You would only want the extra button on the right side though, not the left side too. Correct? There is only one magnet, and its on the right side, no need for two buttons to be drilled.
Quoted from Thrillhouse:Sterns current cab and playfield design won't allow for a horizontal install of a second button. I fully was going to try installing a second button for the magna save, I could care less about resale value, but as you can see the playfield rests against the washer that holds the flipper buttons t-nut in place. There is no room for a second button without chopping the trough apart. The auto-plunge mech would also get in the way of the old school style of a second button.
Well.....shit
Quoted from pinlink:You would only want the extra button on the right side though, not the left side too. Correct? There is only one magnet, and its on the right side, no need for two buttons to be drilled.
honestly, I would be completely fine with a left side button. The game is pretty heavy on the right hand flipper and any shot going down the right outlane has me likely more concerned with the right hand/flipper action, so using a secondary left button would not be a bad thing in my mind.
A local op here drilled his Metallica LE playfield Sparky magnet to install the bigger "Well Walker" style magnet from Walking Dead. A ballsy move, but he is really good with tools and pinball restorations so he made it look flawless. I wish I had a picture of it on hand. Even though it is a permanent mod (something I'm not a fan of) I wouldn't hesitate to buy his METLE because of it.
Quoted from LesManley:I wish I had a picture of it on hand
me too , would love to see a picture of that if possible
Quoted from Whysnow:honestly, I would be completely fine with a left side button. The game is pretty heavy on the right hand flipper and any shot going down the right outlane has me likely more concerned with the right hand/flipper action, so using a secondary left button would not be a bad thing in my mind.
Sounds like you should get good at hitting the lockdown bar button with your left hand. 
Everybody knows you are supposed to slam your chin onto the lockdown bar magna save button. This simulates the reality of battling the Black Knight. Haven't any of you guys been hit in the helmet with a mace before?
The foot pedal is sounding more and more like the way to go. Sparkfun has a complete foot pedal for $6 that is terminated with a 1/4 plug. This would require a 1/4 mono jack installed but the tournament button plug would be a perfect spot.
Quoted from guymontag451:Still following this thread just to actually see anything really done.
As Thrillhouse documented above, Stern seems to have effectively cock-blocked the obvious placement for the button -- probably explains why the game didn't ship with one in homage to the original BK. So we'll have to wait for someone to do one of the more novel approaches suggested here. We've got an inventive bunch on Pinside though, stick around and something will happen.
Quoted from fosaisu:As thrillhouse documented above, Stern seems to have effectively cock-blocked the obvious placement for the button -- probably explains why the game didn't ship with one in homage to the original BK. So we'll have to wait for someone to do one of the more novel approaches suggested here. We've got an inventive bunch on Pinside though, stick around and something will happen.
I actually see the placement of the button on the lockdown bar as a plus, not as a minus for the game. Slapping the button on top is fun and demonstrative. And I have not found the placement to impede my ability to utilize the magnasave when I play the game.
I think what is really fascinating about the criticism surrounding the game's magnasave is based on the positioning of the button, rather than the strength or positioning of the magnet itself. It's much less effective at pulling balls directly from the below the post in the outlane than in the previous Black Knight games. I do not find that button on the side of the cabinet helps this.
I feel as though that would be drawing the ire of pinsiders more than than the button placement, but then again maybe these people just haven't got enough plays on the game yet to determine this and hence believe that it's solely a button placement issue for them.
Personally I love the game, much more than the previous Black Knight games. I find that the new magnasave is totally usable and fun as is, but will acknowledge that if you are expecting similar ball saving heroics to the originals, you will likely be disappointed, button placement aside. And I think that more than likely this has to do mostly with the placement of the magnet itself under the playfield that Stern chose to use. It is too high above the inlane on BKSOR to be as effective as the originals. I really think that with more plays the community will start to see this more. I would recommend that anyone interested in the hole drilling tries something non invasive first like the pedal idea or even the stick on button concept, simply because you might find that although you prefer the new button placement that you installed on your game, you still hate the lower effectiveness of the magnasave itself and this permanent mod might not have solved the issue for you.
Just my .02 after putting on an estimated 250+ plays so far in the last month.
Quoted from guymontag451:I think what is really fascinating about the criticism surrounding the game's magnasave is based on the positioning of the button, rather than the strength or positioning of the magnet itself. It's much less effective at pulling balls directly from the below the post in the outlane than in the previous Black Knight games. I do not find that button on the side of the cabinet helps this.
This could definitely be. I've only put about 20-30 games on one on route here in Denver so not approaching your total. And I fully accept that you and a number of others find the lockdown bar button to be workable. I was expecting similar magnet antics to the original -- if not, why include the feature at all, you might ask. So maybe a weak magnet exacerbated my inability to generate grabs/saves with the lockdown bar button, and if I tried one with an extra Magnasave button on the side my frustrations would just shift to the magnet strength/placement instead.
All that said, I still think BKSR is a great game and lots of fun to play. The Magnasave doesn't detract from the game, just something that feels like it could have been better implemented based on the plays I've put on it.
Quoted from guymontag451:I actually see the placement of the button on the lockdown bar as a plus, not as a minus for the game. Slapping the button on top is fun and demonstrative. And I have not found the placement to impede my ability to utilize the magnasave when I play the game.
I think what is really fascinating about the criticism surrounding the game's magnasave is based on the positioning of the button, rather than the strength or positioning of the magnet itself. It's much less effective at pulling balls directly from the below the post in the outlane than in the previous Black Knight games. I do not find that button on the side of the cabinet helps this.
I feel as though that would be drawing the ire of pinsiders more than than the button placement, but then again maybe these people just haven't got enough plays on the game yet to determine this and hence believe that it's solely a button placement issue for them.
Personally I love the game, much more than the previous Black Knight games. I find that the new magnasave is totally usable and fun as is, but will acknowledge that if you are expecting similar ball saving heroics to the originals, you will likely be disappointed, button placement aside. And I think that more than likely this has to do mostly with the placement of the magnet itself under the playfield that Stern chose to use. It is too high above the inlane on BKSOR to be as effective as the originals. I really think that with more plays the community will start to see this more. I would recommend that anyone interested in the hole drilling tries something non invasive first like the pedal idea or even the stick on button concept, simply because you might find that although you prefer the new button placement that you installed on your game, you still hate the lower effectiveness of the magnasave itself and this permanent mod might not have solved the issue for you.
Just my .02 after putting on an estimated 250+ plays so far in the last month.
In case it was not clear, I really wanted to find out if the issue lies in the position of the button (reaction time) or the magnet position and strength, or a combination.
Quoted from AFM95:imamaculate drill hole
Y E S !!! This made my day.
What was wrong with the solution in post #14?
Seems ideal - no drilling... keep the lockbar button intact, easily reversible.
Quoted from andrewket:What was wrong with the solution in post #14?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-drill-bk3000-to-properly-add-magnasave-button#post-5000789
Seems ideal - no drilling... keep the lockbar button intact, easily reversible.
This is the best idea if it is the same size hole in the cab. Can anyone with a pinball 2000 confirm?
Quoted from cletus:Pinballusa.com figured it out...[quoted image]
its too close :/
Quoted from andrewket:What was wrong with the solution in post #14?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-drill-bk3000-to-properly-add-magnasave-button#post-5000789
Seems ideal - no drilling... keep the lockbar button intact, easily reversible.
Still gotta drill the cabinet I think?
Don’t have the game. Still haven’t played the game. But been following since the beginning and can’t wait to see the first person to have the balls to drill their game and pull this mod off. We’re on page 4 here boys and girls. What’s taking so long? 
Quoted from rotordave:From Facebook ....
rd[quoted image]
You would think the owner could have installed a brand new black button instead of that chawed-around-the-edges one he went with. Or at least used Photoshop to make it look like he did ... 
There is a rectangle of Mylar around the flipper buttons, maybe it is lifting off the cab and that is what you see that looks bad? Not sure, I zoomed in and you can see
Quoted from rotordave:From Facebook ....
rd[quoted image]
bravo, at least one BKSoR owner has big balls. Do we have a name of this slayer of pinball castles?
I’d swap the clear button in place of the red, allowing the flipper area to light up when active. Would also replace the lockdown with another bar without a button, to make the point it has been relocated.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Would also replace the lockdown with another bar without a button, to make the point it has been relocated.
You’d just wire them together, so both bottoms work the MagnaSave.
Then the player has the choice.
Make up a MAGNASAVE sticker, same as the classic MagnaSave games, and stick it on the apron pointing to the right side buttons.
rd
Quoted from rotordave:You’d just wire them together, so both bottoms work the MagnaSave.
Then the player has the choice.
Make up a MAGNASAVE sticker, same as the classic MagnaSave games, and stick it on the apron pointing to the right side buttons.
rd
I'm with Jeff: if you put the button on the side, you remove it from lockdown bar. One button per magna save magnet.
Of course if the two buttons still prove to be too challenging, leave the button connected on the lockdown bar and also connect the magna save up to a foot pedal (step on it), the tilt mechanism (nudge it), and an Amazon Echo (shout "Alexa, magna save on!" ... just be sure to say it really fast ... but not so fast that Alexa replies "Amazon lets you save on millions of items every day" as your ball continues to the right outlane.)
Yawn.... all talk and no drill!
If its a lack of technology I can send a drill big along to speed this up
Butt seriously- I dont get the concern and worry. Its a piece of wood- drill the hole and play it. If it sucks patch it and fix the art or put a big Supreme sticker over the hole. 
Quoted from TheRudyB:You would think the owner could have installed a brand new black button instead of that chawed-around-the-edges one he went with. Or at least used Photoshop to make it look like he did ...
I'd be worried about " button wrinkle" . We're going to need a protector. 
1 week later
Played BK3 on route today again. F that button on the lock. The game plays so fast it is worthless for real saves. The only time I see it being used is if the ball is “bouncing” off the top of the sling, which you could nudge instead.
Button at the flipper would help, although I had a ton of left drains today.
2 weeks later
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