(Topic ID: 243180)

LETS Drill BK3000 to properly add magnasave button? NEED a template from BK BK2K


By Whysnow

29 days ago



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  • 199 posts
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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by northvibe
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 199 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 26 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Well, I for one would NOT buy a game that had been hacked like this.
A reversible mod - sure.
But, the fun is trying to master the challenge of using it in the way it was designed.

it wont be a hack. it will look and act like factory. im not removing the lockdown bar button. you can use either.

I'll even invite King Ritchie himself to come over and play it with me!!

#102 26 days ago
Quoted from fxdwg:

no disrespect, but I disagree, if anything it would add value. It should be like the other 2 BK games. I plan to do this to mine.

Mods that are irreversible generally add zero amount to a sale or are negative.

I would not pay anything extra for powdercoating and if it's a color I don't like, then price would be lower.

#103 26 days ago

How many of "holy grail" B/W and System 11 games had a center post screwed down through the playfield between the flippers that were not installed at the factory? This is no different, and even less invasive if done with care.

#104 26 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Mods that are irreversible generally add zero amount to a sale or are negative.
I would not pay anything extra for powdercoating and if it's a color I don't like, then price would be lower.

I was kidding on the add value. I should have put the sarcasm emoji on there. my apologies.

#105 26 days ago
Quoted from fxdwg:

it wont be a hack. it will look and act like factory. im not removing the lockdown bar button. you can use either.

But, if the next person wants to remove the mod, there would be a hole in the side of the cabinet?

Maybe it's just me, but that would be a pass.

#106 26 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

How many of "holy grail" B/W and System 11 games had a center post screwed down through the playfield between the flippers that were not installed at the factory? This is no different, and even less invasive if done with care.

Good point.

I would pay way less for a game with a hole between the flippers! Most annoying mod ever

#107 26 days ago

Its not that hard, you dont need a template (although I use one)..use a forschner bit on both sides of the cab...drill 1/2" - 5/8" deep on the outside and 1/8" deep on the inside with the forschner bit, the complete the hole with a butterfly bit...the holes are 2" apart
I will have to go out to my shop to confirm bit sizes but I think its 1 1/8" and 5/8"
Disregard the 3/16"...thats for a wpc siderail hole

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#108 26 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Some of you guys get waaay too hung up on "designer intent" as gospel. For starters, I can guarantee you that no game leaving the factory is ever exactly as the designer intended. Compromises are made for cost, ease of manufacture, cost, location reliability, and did I mention cost?
Secondly, designers aren't perfect. Not even the king. They're just normal people who get paid to do a job, like you. Have you ever made a mistake at work? So have they. It's totally okay to change your machine if you think something isn't up to snuff, or if you just like it better that way.

I know that no game leaving the factory is ever exactly as the designer intended, especially speaking as someone who has worked in the biz and with many of the folks at Stern. But those compromises are made by the designer. Even in a mandate to “reduce the BOM on this game stat!” the designer is intimately involved. Steve Ritchie is NOT going to find out that someone else moved things around or took things out of his game behind his back. While Steve may be issued an edict to make a change for any of a myriad reasons, Steve will comply - but in the way he sees fit as designer. It’s still Steve’s design.

You must also let us know how you are in a position to judge a designer’s perfection. Sounds like you’d paint a bigger smile on the Mona Lisa if you felt she should look happier.

#109 26 days ago

I'll try and remember to measure mine when I get home from work today if nobody has done it yet.

#110 26 days ago

I also want the real kicker back on the left outlane… dammit... especially for a LE or Premium.

#111 26 days ago

Out of curiosity, does Stern include some kind of premium or high chromium content ball these days? That extra chromium reduces the effect of magnets on the ball as there is a lower iron content in the alloy.

Magnet games perform better with the generic 'standard' pinball.

#112 26 days ago

Just use this instead.

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#113 26 days ago
Quoted from TheRudyB:

You must also let us know how you are in a position to judge a designer’s perfection.

Let me say this again:

Quoted from yancy:

Some of you guys get waaay too hung up on "designer intent" as gospel.

Quoted from TheRudyB:

Sounds like you’d paint a bigger smile on the Mona Lisa if you felt she should look happier.

When I pay $5k+ to put the Mona Lisa in my basement, I'll paint her eating a bag of doritos if I feel like it. I buy pinball machines to have fun. If I can think of something to make them more fun, I will do it. Sorry if that's radical heresy on a forum for middle-aged toy collectors.

#114 26 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

But, if the next person wants to remove the mod, there would be a hole in the side of the cabinet?
Maybe it's just me, but that would be a pass.

mine is an LE, so worst case, I could remove the button and replace the side rail.

#115 26 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Its not that hard, you dont need a template (although I use one)..use a forschner bit on both sides of the cab...drill 1/2" deep on the outside and 1/8" deep on the inside with the forschner bit, the complete the hole with a butterfly bit...the holes are 2" apart
I will have to go out to my shop to confirm bit sizes but I think its 1 1/8" and 5/8"
Disreguard the 3/16"...thats for a wpc siderail hole
[quoted image][quoted image]

thanks for the photo and info. ill give you my fedex shipping number, will you send me that? Ill send it back when I am done... I am all about doing it the easy way!

#116 26 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Sorry if that's radical heresy on a forum for middle-aged toy collectors.

Nah, I think the official middle aged toy collector sites have officially expunged the pinball hobbyists...

First of all we steal their toys and open them to glue on our games.

And if that wasn't bad enough, we dare open OUR toys and play them. Except for those guys who just collect NIB and keep them that way. Those guys and toy collectors do okay together

#117 26 days ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Out of curiosity, does Stern include some kind of premium or high chromium content ball these days?

spit take.gif

#118 26 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

How many of "holy grail" B/W and System 11 games had a center post screwed down through the playfield between the flippers that were not installed at the factory? This is no different, and even less invasive if done with care.

Stop making sense

#119 26 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

[quoted image]

I knew it was a silly question, but I had to ask.

#120 26 days ago

I would drill mine in a minute and I normally like only reversible mods. My problem is the hell hand and that fucking ugly sand worm. You can bet Steve didn't dream that crap up.

#121 26 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Let me say this again:

When I pay $5k+ to put the Mona Lisa in my basement, I'll paint her eating a bag of doritos if I feel like it. I buy pinball machines to have fun. If I can think of something to make them more fun, I will do it. Sorry if that's radical heresy on a forum for middle-aged toy collectors.

Not at all. As I've said, you're free to modify anything you buy any way you feel like. But some of you guys get waaaaay too hung up on making significant engineering changes to a shipped game that alters physical play because it's not the way you would have done it or liked.

But hey - I truly think your Modda Lisa will perfectly complement your black light velvet Elvis painting and your tapestry of dogs playing poker.

#122 26 days ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

My problem is the hell hand and that fucking ugly sand worm. You can bet Steve didn't dream that crap up.

I can't wait for page 5 of this thread, when it's decided this isn't actually Steve's game at all.

For league one time we set up a game with foot pedals wired to the flipper buttons, you had to stand a few feet back from the game and play with just your feet. Was pretty hard, but fun. Didn't take long at all to rig, was just an afternoon gimmick.

I would absolutely try that before drilling the cab. Get that instant reflex access and see if it makes any different or not.

#123 26 days ago

Foot Pedals - Want to get - Actually was thinking of making foot pedals for pins for my friend who has 1 arm so he can play games.

Making game accessible for all seems like something Stern should spend a little more time on.

I feel okay right now about magnasave in the middle. It gives the game a bit of an update and standard user interface for a stern in this era.

I would never modify my game like this. It would probably hurt the eventual resale of game. You are a minority and I imagine anyone who would want buy would try to knock value of game down or not buy based on this mod. You'd be waiting for that non standard guy who shares your vision.

#124 26 days ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't wait for page 5 of this thread, when it's decided this isn't actually Steve's game at all.
For league one time we set up a game with foot pedals wired to the flipper buttons, you had to stand a few feet back from the game and play with just your feet. Was pretty hard, but fun. Didn't take long at all to rig, was just an afternoon gimmick.
I would absolutely try that before drilling the cab. Get that instant reflex access and see if it makes any different or not.

I went to a mountain bike festival in WV that had an EM hooked up to a generator that was powered by a stationary bicycle. Only way the game worked is if you were pedaling while flipping.

#125 26 days ago

Ill be a pain with another suggestion to try, if one doesnt want to drill.....Stick on Buttons!

They are made with suction cups, held by non damaging suction cups. and can be those little tap lights, others, with command strips

Run the wires through the speaker....

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#126 26 days ago

Ugh - Cringe worthy. Like drilling out a Williams Funhouse Coindoor to add a credit button.

#127 26 days ago
Quoted from PW79:

Maybe they’re sitting on a pile of Munsters cabinets now (if sales are indeed slow, who knows) & they don’t want to order another very game specific cabinet or modify existing stock.
I’m talking out my ass btw, maybe they really did make it front & center to engage noobs

Maybe they should add a magnet under center drain and tie it to the lockdown bar magna save button. Now that! would be helpful.

#128 26 days ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't wait for page 5 of this thread, when it's decided this isn't actually Steve's game at all.
For league one time we set up a game with foot pedals wired to the flipper buttons, you had to stand a few feet back from the game and play with just your feet. Was pretty hard, but fun. Didn't take long at all to rig, was just an afternoon gimmick.
I would absolutely try that before drilling the cab. Get that instant reflex access and see if it makes any different or not.

even if its not a reflex thing, I just want my magnasave button where it belongs! also I am not a fan of the dog gone lockdown bar buttons... I always want to hit them when a ball drains... for me, that's AC/DC's fault. LOL

-2
#129 26 days ago

Code could fix this by pressing both flipper buttons at the same time. No drilling of the cab. I think this is the easiest fix.

#130 26 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I went to a mountain bike festival in WV that had an EM hooked up to a generator that was powered by a stationary bicycle. Only way the game worked is if you were pedaling while flipping.

Lee’s game? I wish to purchase

#131 26 days ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

I would drill mine in a minute and I normally like only reversible mods. My problem is the hell hand and that fucking ugly sand worm. You can bet Steve didn't dream that crap up.

hell hand is fabulous. It is super creepy and can cause the weak-minded to have scary knight-mares.

#132 26 days ago
Quoted from shovelhed:

Code could fix this by pressing both flipper buttons at the same time. No drilling of the cab. I think this is the easiest fix.

That would also teach a lesson to the casual players that like to flip both flippers at once! Not that they'd have tried to use the magnasave to begin with, of course.

#133 26 days ago

Use the extra Munster Prem cabinets for BKSoR. Add Magna Save button on right side and a button rigged to 20v shock to the left side. It would be teaching moment for little Johnny to know the Magna Save button is on the “right” side.

#134 26 days ago
Quoted from shovelhed:

Code could fix this by pressing both flipper buttons at the same time. No drilling of the cab. I think this is the easiest fix.

Quoted from fosaisu:

That would also teach a lesson to the casual players that like to flip both flippers at once! Not that they'd have tried to use the magnasave to begin with, of course.

I'm far from a casual, and have both flippers up, even if just for a split second, countless times in a game...

cradling on both flippers during a multiball; staging/flipping a ball while another ball is cradled on another flipper during multiball; flipping the opposite flipper in a rapid matter to deaden the ball movement on another flipper; after a mega two-flipper slap save; etc.

#135 26 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

hell hand is fabulous. It is super creepy and can cause the weak-minded to have scary knight-mares.

Show me any indication on the previous BK's that characters like these exist in the game and I am in.

#136 26 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Thanks Jedi.
This perfectly answers why I started this thread.
I too was curious if the lack of being effective was due to the lock down placement or also due to the magnet location/power.
With multiple posts about it not being just due to reaction time/physical button location it seems like a bad idea to drill only to find out that the magnasave still does not work as originally intended.
I wonder if there is a way to make a stick on button and wire it out the right leg (utlizing the gap from the cab leg protector?)
Would be a great and removable mod to make!

It would be interesting to have device made (sort like the one arm device you used on Frontier at mad mad mad) that would activate the lockdown button from the position on the right side where a button would be. Then the theory could be tested.

#137 26 days ago

All else fails replace rails with lolipop side rails. If it is that undesirable it is easily hidden or “reversed”

#138 26 days ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

Show me any indication on the previous BK's that characters like these exist in the game and I am in.

well of course they didn’t, but this is BK3K dammit! and it is here where we learn of the worms and hell hand that were previously unknown during episodes 1 & 2. Believe me, there’re plenty of holes in the plot besides that.

In Prem/LE you use the catapult mech to start a multiball to destroy the castle gate. Pro buyers don’t get that without the upper pf, which is understandable. But I scratch my head, don’t they need the catapult to destroy the black knight too?

Maybe breadcrumbs are enough for peasants, but I enjoy having the upper playfield for the added flow, in spite of a storyline that is a bit loosey goosey. On the other hand, BKSoR could probably win a TWIPY for best Original Screenplay.

#139 26 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

well of course they didn’t, but this is BK3K dammit! and it is here where we learn of the worms and hell hand that were previously unknown during episodes 1 & 2. The story line has plenty of holes in the plot besides that. For instance, in Prem/LE you can use the catapult to start a multiball to destroy the castle gate. For some reason, pro buyers don’t get that. I scratch my head, don’t they need the catapult to destroy the black knight too?

You would think. Maybe the worm eats the pro buyers before they get to the castle. I heard that's the way Steve designed it.

#140 26 days ago

Who will be the first?
Only one of you can be the first to do it...
-mof

#141 26 days ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

You would think. Maybe the worm eats the pro buyers before they get to the castle. I heard that's the way Steve designed it.

Don’t turn your back and always keep an eyeball on the worm.

#142 26 days ago
Quoted from TheRudyB:

I know that no game leaving the factory is ever exactly as the designer intended, especially speaking as someone who has worked in the biz and with many of the folks at Stern. But those compromises are made by the designer. Even in a mandate to “reduce the BOM on this game stat!” the designer is intimately involved. Steve Ritchie is NOT going to find out that someone else moved things around or took things out of his game behind his back. While Steve may be issued an edict to make a change for any of a myriad reasons, Steve will comply - but in the way he sees fit as designer. It’s still Steve’s design.
You must also let us know how you are in a position to judge a designer’s perfection. Sounds like you’d paint a bigger smile on the Mona Lisa if you felt she should look happier.

Funny you would mention a painting. That was my first thought listening to you people whining about someone making their game more enjoyable for them. This is a pinball machine not a painting. It meant to be played and enjoyed. Try not to get them confused.

#143 26 days ago
Quoted from mof:

Who will be the first?
Only one of you can be the first to do it...
-mof

mof

its going to be me. LOL. I plan to go get my game Wednesday if possible... I plan to order the leaf switch tonight when I get home.

now I need that damn template!!

#144 26 days ago

You guys are all talk! Wheres the sawdust?

btw this is a stupid idea.

#145 26 days ago
Quoted from fxdwg:

its going to be me.

Excellent!
I hope you'll document the process well for others to follow.

I'm not a professional wood-worker, but as mentioned by cosmokramer, my understanding is the forstner drill bit is key to not tearing up the wood around the hole, so if you are thinking about doing this, and don't yet have a forstner set, get your set ordered or head out and grab one...!

@fxdwg I presume you'll want to make a nice cut in a circle slightly larger than the hole, and remove the quarter-sized decal, in a way that the bit can't possibly grab them, yeah?

-mof

Quoted from cosmokramer:

you don't need a template

@cosmokramer: How do you ensure you are hitting the hole in the same exact spot from both sides (without) a template? I would think making a great template would be really helpful to nailing the hole-making from both sides...

-mof

#146 26 days ago
Quoted from mof:

How do you ensure you are hitting the hole in the same exact spot from both sides (without) a template?

Drill a tiny hole (like 1/16" or something) all the way through the cabinet at the desired button center point, then line up the other bits using this pinhole that now exists on both sides.

#147 26 days ago
Quoted from mof:

@cosmokramer: How do you ensure you are hitting the hole in the same exact spot from both sides (without) a template?

Measure and mark location. Pre-drill all the way through with a very small drillbit. Use that small hole to position forscner bit on both sides

Edit: beat me by a few seconds...

#148 26 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Pre-drill all the way through with a very small drillbit.

Thank you!
-mof

#150 26 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Funny you would mention a painting. That was my first thought listening to you people whining about someone making their game more enjoyable for them. This is a pinball machine not a painting. It meant to be played and enjoyed. Try not to get them confused.

You keep missing what I'm saying: you can do anything you want to your game - I'm not telling you or trying to convince you not to do something to it. I'm merely stating why I choose not to do it to my games. That's my choice for my games. Try not to get them confused.

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