(Topic ID: 280577)

Anyone do laserdiscs or vintage home theaters/stereos?

By SantaEatsCheese

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 103 posts
  • 49 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Rdoyle1978
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Vintage home theater?”

  • Sounds cool! 7 votes
    23%
  • Don't waste your time. 11 votes
    37%
  • I've actually still got mine! 12 votes
    40%

(30 votes)

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#35 3 years ago

Laserdisc collector here. I grew up watching Tom and Jerry and the Looney Tunes on Laserdisc. Still have those box sets and will never get rid of them.

I started seriously collecting about 3.5 years ago. I've got over 1500 titles in my collection. For me, nothing beats Laserdisc when it comes to audio. Uncompressed digital audio, original theater mixes, and killer AC3 and DTS soundtracks that will shake the house!

One of my collection goals is to be Criterion Collection complete, and I'm about 70% there. There are so many releases with great extras and commentaries that aren't available anywhere else.

One of my favorite things is to spin a late release or DTS disc for someone who has never seen a Laserdisc. They are always blown away by the sound and typically impressed with the picture quality, especially for a technology designed in the 70s! Hearing the blu-ray after is always a let down.

The picture quality on late releases is usually quite good. Sometimes on par with DVD or better since there is no digital compression or artifacts. It's amazing how much they were able to progress and maximize the potential of that format. The difference between the very early DiscoVision titles and the releases in the 90s with discrete surround sound is just incredible.

This was my collection about a year ago. I've added probably about another 100-200 discs since then.
IMG_20191006_221922664-2 (resized).jpgIMG_20191006_221922664-2 (resized).jpg

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from ReadyPO:

I'm a little unclear on this Disc Rot issue - are all Disc's susceptible to it, or just some (certain manufacturer's, etc.). If a disc doesn't have it by now, is it not going to get it? Can a Disc surface be polished to remove it?
Inquiring minds want to know ....

As PopBumperPete said, all discs are susceptible to it, however it is generally uncommon. However, there were specific pressing plants that consistently put out bad discs. Sony DADC pressings are the worst offender with a very high percentage having rot. LDDB.com (Laserdisc Database) has a great database of user submitted rot reports. https://www.lddb.com/laserrot.php Sometimes rot is light and barely noticeable, and on the other extreme end, it can prevent the disc from playing. Laser rot is the oxidation of the reflective aluminum layer between the 2 halves of the disc. When it oxidizes, the laser is no longer reflected back to the sensor, so the data is "missing". In addition, early DiscoVision pressings are usually rotted or just plain garbage source material (Nasty pan and scan transfer). The transfer and pressing technology were still very early in development and clean rooms weren't very clean.

Ironically, the US release of Eraser (1996) is considered one of the worst rotters. It was pressed by Sony DADC.
https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/09170/14202/Eraser (Database entry for pressing)
https://www.lddb.com/laserrot.php?id=9170 (Details on laserot for that specific release).

Every database entry has a rot status indication. The majority are "none reported" or "Low probability". The releases with major rot issues are marked as "High probability" or even "Avoid this release". However, you can get really lucky and find a rot free copy of a release that is marked as an "Avoid this release". I have at least 10-20 releases that are on the top 100 rotters list I linked above that have no rot whatsoever. Sometimes you get lucky with those. Sometimes a "rotten" release can be just one of the discs (since a decent number of releases have more than 1). So you get a second and piece together a complete rot free copy.

Final comment regarding laser rot. I think it is way overblown. Other than the couple of high profile rotters pressed by Sony DADC and DiscoVision pressings, it's not really that common. The discs can take a surprising amount of abuse. I have 1574 releases in my collection. That's not a disc count because some releases have 2 discs and box sets can have anywhere from 3-15 discs. Out of all of that, I have only 14 in my collection that are rotten. That's less than 1%.

2 months later
#70 3 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Sweet! Alas my wife probably won’t be partial to any vintage Ashlyn Gere (in LD? Forgettaboutit!), but it might be time to fire up my old friend:[quoted image]

Turn it up to 11!

#82 3 years ago

Continuing with the discussion about Toy Story and obscure/exclusive content. There's a decent amount of Laserdisc exclusive content.

There's a lot of Disney that has been altered since it's release on Laserdisc. The Beauty and the Beast Work in Progress is the most significant. See the full comparison here:
http://stayornay.com/toons/index.php/2015/05/17/beauty-and-the-beast-work-in-progress-version/

Lion King also has a ridiculous amount of changes in addition to the infamous "SFX" scene.
https://lionking.fandom.com/wiki/The_Lion_King_series_re-release_changes

When a lot of the older Disney was "restored" for DVD/Blu-Ray, colors and details were lost. Cinderella suffered from this in very obvious ways:
https://www.boredpanda.com/disney-animated-movies-ciderella-blu-ray-restoration-ruined-detail/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

There's always Song of the South which was only released on VHS and a Japanese Laserdisc pressing. That one tends to fetch fairly good money.

The Rescuers and Who Framed Roger Rabbit both have a scene where a naked woman is present for one frame. The animators slipped it in thinking it would be never noticed in the cinema (which it wasn't). It was only noticed on CAV laserdiscs with frame by frame playback capabilities. Both titles were recalled and re-released with the frames removed.

Up until last year with the release of Disney Plus, the only widescreen version of A Goofy Movie was on Laserdisc. Everything else was pan & scan.

There's also some banned Looney Tunes and Tex Avery cartoons only present on laserdisc.

Looking at George Lucas. The most famous instance is Star Wars. As others have mentioned, laserdisc is the highest quality official release of the original trilogy in it's theatrical form (with the exception of the GOUT DVD release which is sourced directly from the laserdisc with no cleanup work). It is also the highest quality official release of the 1997 Special Edition trilogy in it's theatrical form. The 2004 DVD releases use a completely different cut, as do the Blu-Ray. Episode 1 also has an exclusive laserdisc release in Japan. Japan got the theatrical version of Episode 1 on Laserdisc with puppet Yoda. Everyone else got an extended cut. When Episode 2 came out, puppet Yoda was removed in Episode 1 and replaced with a CGI version (which is what you get on all re-releases of Episode 1).

But, it's not limited to Lucas' Star Wars. American Graffiti and THX 1138 have been altered from their original theatrical releases with laserdisc being the only way to see the original theatrical cut. American Graffiti has minor changes, but THX 1138 has a ton of changes, and suffers from the same CGI crap that Star Wars does:
https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=541751

The Matrix laserdisc release is different then the DVD release and is supposedly more true to the theatrical version. The DVD has a green tint throughout the entire picture. I've never seen the laserdisc to compare, so I can't say how different it actually is.

Scream has some laserdisc exclusive content. While it is only 20 seconds worth of additional content, it's somewhat significant.
https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/07764/10499-AS/Scream:-Directors-Cut

There are some commentary tracks that are exclusive to laserdisc releases. The most famous are the banned commentary tracks for the 3 James Bond Criterion Collection releases. They were recalled and re-released without the commentaries. There are also a lot of commentaries by film historian Ronald Haver that are on Criterion laserdiscs but not always on the re-releases.

In general, laserdisc typically has a more "accurate" version when comparing to the theatrical release (not always true though- IE pan & scan). Soundmixes are typically the original theater mix and not a near-field mix that is present on DVD/BluRay. I've compared several titles over the years and almost always, the laserdisc blows anything else away soundwise.

One of the more well known laserdisc exclusive releases is Michael Mann's The Keep. There was a ton of drama with it's production, he hated the final product, and it has not ever been re-released.

There's a lot more, but this is what I can think of off the top of my head.

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Very good points - I did not know about The Keep. That is now again available via streaming thankfully. Yeah the book is better, but the movie is still pretty interesting.
Couple of notes: The Matrix DVD release with the "Extra green tint" is an urban myth to my understanding. The theatrical version *did* have this green tint apparently, but it was not as noticeable until the home release. The initial Bluray is the release that had the REALLY bad overbearing tint. The scenes in the Matrix are supposed to look green, just not as much as the Bluray transfer had applied. I believe they've dialed it back on subsequent releases. Hopefully a 4K transfer eventually.
Also, the Criterion Channel (streaming version of the Collection) rotates movies every couple of months, and some of the "lost" commentaries have resurfaced. Not the Bond ones, AFAIK, but still, pretty cool.
This is making me want to go get a new LD player! LOL

Wow. That's interesting that The Keep is available for streaming. It looks like its a bad rip from a VHS on Amazon Prime though (according to the comments). I've never read the book. I should do that some time.

I've heard some people say that about the Matrix. I really don't know. If it is a myth, then all those people buying it for $300+ on laserdisc for the supposed lack of tint are in for a surprise.

I haven't checked out the Criterion Channel. I keep meaning to, but then I always forget about it. We don't have any smart TVs in the house and don't do a ton of streaming. That's great that the lost commentaries are starting to resurface.

1 year later
#89 2 years ago

Nice! Thanks for sharing. I've always been curious about the raw capture. What is your preferred de-interlacing mode, or do you leave it interlaced?

2 weeks later
#98 1 year ago

May the 4th be with you! Laserdiscs are still my favorite way (and the best official way) to watch the unedited versions of the original trilogy.

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#101 1 year ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

I recently got a player (Pioneer CDL V840) with some karaoke discs, and never thought about this. Now I need to have the original unedited trilogy. Is that definitive collection the unedited version of the film? Or would I have to buy each film individually? The last time I owned the unedited version was on VSH, but I got rid of that like 20 years ago [quoted image]

There are a lot of Star Wars releases on Laserdisc of varying qualities, most of which are the original unedited version. Here's the full list of releases according to the laserdisc database (LDDB):
https://www.lddb.com/search.php?search=star+wars&max=250&sort=country,asc

Here are some highlights of the releases focusing mainly on the USA releases.

The first USA releases were the FOX & CBS pan & scan. These have stereo analog audio only. You loose a lot of the frame and the transfer is pretty rough. Early laserdiscs from the late 70s and early 80s typically were sourced from poor masters, were pan & scan, and the pressing/duplication technology just wasn't as good as it eventually got to be. By the mid to late 80s, LD started getting substantially better and continued to do so until it's end in 2000/2001.

The next USA releases were the Fox & CBS Letterboxed (LBX) releases in the late 80s/early 90s. These have much better image and sound quality with Dolby Surround matrixed surround sound (4.0) on both digital and analog audio channels. However, these suffer from a shrinking aspect ratio. The aspect ratio on this edition gets wider as the film progresses. This is reportedly due to manual corrections (matting) that had to be made to the original, subtitled Japanese master. (More on that Japanese master later)

Next is the Definitive Collection box set from 1993. This is the first THX Star Wars release. The films were restored (but unedited) and have some at times heavy digital noise reduction. The earlier Fox/CBS LBX releases have a little bit more detail but way more noise, film scratches, and color issues. It's an impressive box set (pictured in the middle of my post) containing all 3 unedited versions of the original trilogy across 9 discs. It is a CAV pressing (meaning a maximum of 30 minutes per side). There are a lot of side changes. This set also includes some audio commentary as well as a really cool book. The audio is again a Dolby Surround, matrixed surround sound (4.0). This set did have technical issues with it's initial release (closed captioning issues and 7 seconds missing from ESB) and was corrected. If you do buy this one, try to find the corrected edition (the Mitsubishi pressing).

Next comes the "Faces" release (pictured in the top row of my post). These individual releases use the same master as the Definitive Collection box set. They are on CLV discs (meaning a maximum of 60 minutes per side). CAV discs have ever so slightly better image quality as well as freeze frame and slow motion playback. These "tricks" made CAV more desirable, however the newer LD players started featuring a digital image buffer allowing the CLV discs to also have freeze frame. This edition does not have the audio commentary pieces like the Definitive Collection but has a completely different interview/making of located on the last side of each release.

Finally, the last USA release of note, the Special Collection from 1997. This is pictured in my post, middle row, on the right. These are round of changes made to the original trilogy. I personally think these are the least offensive edits made. They just get worse and more frequent with each subsequent release. The benefits of this release are absolutely outstanding picture quality. This pressing uses the Super NTSC process and has amazing color and detail. It is the best looking version of Star Wars on Laserdisc (but it has edits). This release also has Dolby Digital AC3 5.1 surround sound. You need a AC3 compatible player and a decoder for your surround sound system. This LaserDisc set is the only home video release to present the Special Editions of all three films with the same picture and discrete digital soundtracks used for the theatrical releases. All later editions on DVD and Blu-ray are altered to various degrees and don't represent the theatrical prints. It truly has incredible sound. There is also a making of documentary of the restoration and edits made to the film.

Remember that Japanese master I referenced earlier? Well here's the scoop on that. In 1986, Japan got the first LBX release of the Star Wars trilogy. These were released individually with the title Special Collection. These releases have the best image quality available for the unedited Original Trilogy and are superior to the Definitive Collection released in 1993. These masters were then used to make the late 80s USA LBX releases which they screwed up with the aspect ratio issues and simply not being as good of a pressing. The only "downside" with these releases are the Japanese subtitles which are hard encoded into the picture. Thankfully, they were smart and shifted the letter box up and the subtitles are out of the picture in the lower letterbox. This edition is pretty pricey.

Okay. So, which one do you get? Well, if money is no question and you don't care about the subtitles, the Japanese Special Collection is the way to go. I still need to pick up a set of these. If you are wanting to stay with USA releases, the "Faces" editions are probably the best bet due to it being cheaper than the Definitive Collection and less side changes. The Definitive Collection is a nice release, and I enjoy showing it off to my other Star Wars nerd friends. I occasionally watch this release, but I usually just watch the "Faces" editions due to less side changes. Skip any and all pan & scan versions (especially the early ones).

I hope this helps!

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