Just curious; having a tough time understanding some things like:
What the red devil horn arrows do?
What does super targets do?
Only super thing I understand is the super loops so far, but how do you collect the jackpot on it?
Very cool and killer fast game man can hardly see the ball on the pro 
just put up over 175 million on it tonight and drained with extra ball lit 
Man if Borg does metallica my money is gone
derek
That isnt what id call help. Ive owned it for a while & I still dont understand quite a bit. Was just playing KME a lil while ago & he has a pretty good grasp of the rules. Pretty sure more video tutorials are in the works. Just keep playing & learning as much as you can in the meantime.
Quoted from RTS:I noticed after hitting a Super Jackpot during one of the multiballs, the insert for that multiball remained solidly lit for the duration of that game.
Does anyone know if there is any payoff for getting all three SJ's in one game, like maybe a mini wizard mode?
_
I asked the same question and Keith Elwin said no, you just get the satisfaction of knowing that you did it.
I've got to think that this will be changed in a future code update
I play it every day, and I will honestly admit that I only understand about 50% of the rules. My hope is that once the software is finalized, someone (preferably Lyman) will type up a comprehensive explanation of the complete rule set.
The rules are easy to understand. Here are two videos to help you. The Bowen tutorial is from the older code released in September
http://papa.org/blog/2012/09/acdc-tutorial-update-new-code/
And the Elwin Video
Quoted from exflexer:The rules are easy to understand.
I disagree. The basic rules are easy to grasp, but once you get into the deeper stuff like song bonuses, it's actually rather complicated.
VIP Pass: get 1 from a regular skill shot, or 2 from a super skill shot (which starts by holding in the right flipper on ball launch). Get 1 from 50 lit shots during songs ("Song Requests"). They accumulate. Use them to score any lit mode shot at any time.
after you light all 3 Super jackpots shoot into the canon, a white arrow under the bell will light up then from there it is a canon shot at the bell, not sure what it is worth because I have choked all 3 times i managed to light it.
hmmmm...so it really is just a flail fest with hard rock and pretty lights? Seriously though, since SO many people on here have gushed over Lyman's rules and how amazing they are and how there's so much to do, the first few posts here are kind funny.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:hmmmm...so it really is just a flail fest with hard rock and pretty lights? Seriously though, since SO many people on here have gushed over Lyman's rules and how amazing they are and how there's so much to do, the first few posts here are kind funny.
Flail away if you like 3 min game times.
Sigh. Please I'd love to know why people still don't understand what to do on this game.
Pick a song: it makes something worth more. Concentrate on that area if you want. Lots of ramps gives a multiball where ramps are jackpots. Lots of loops gives a multiball where loops are jackpots. Lots of targets gives a multiball where targets are jackpots.
Bell shot is playfield multiplier.
Light cannon by inlanes (FIRE), then shoot what it asks you to.
What is so complicated about this?! This game is not a flail fest with pretty lights. It encourages the player to concentrate their efforts on a task while rewarding the player for anything they happen to do along the way.
lol they dont know cos the game doesnt tell them!! Heeh I still dont know what the red arrows do?? How were people supposed to know about the song jackpot???
Bowen you mentioned that you have to shoot all 5 white arrows to add a ball during MB, yet how would a player know this??? Its not in the rules.. And I have done this and its taken more than 5 shots, sometimes only 1-2 shots.
Given that its such a fast game, theres no time to look at the screen. People are not asking about the simple stuff they are actually asking about how its played properly. Sure its clever, but unless you get on a forum you'll never figure this game out completely.
Quoted from bkerins:Sigh. Please I'd love to know why people still don't understand what to do on this game.
Clearly the tutorials aren't enough. You guys need to do more. I'm thinking a nationwide chain of pinball tutoring schools will do it. Let us know how soon you can be up and running. kthnx d
Quoted from RGR:Bowen you mentioned that you have to shoot all 5 white arrows to add a ball during MB, yet how would a player know this??? Its not in the rules.. And I have done this and its taken more than 5 shots, sometimes only 1-2 shots.
Don't own one, but I believe it depends on what song you're playing before starting MB. Most guys are now using as many VIP passes as they have to get a ball back during MB when the second to last ball drains. Hit the cannon launch button as many times as possible before the ball gets back to the trough (and ends MB). I believe the VIP usually awards the most valuable shot on the playfield, which would be the add a ball shot at that point.
Yeah look I think Bowen is a little frustrated due to there being ALOT of threads and videos out about this game. Sure that is true however more than likely these new threads come up from guys that have not read some of any of the previous threads on the subject.
The issue is that although the game play is quite clever, no one knows this since they have no idea whats going on lol. Agreed the menu on the game can only tell you so much, but getting to the nitty gritty with the song jackpot is like knowing about DOHO/Lymans Lament/Frog in IJ video mode... Theres no way that you would have figured this out if you didnt own the game.
The only thing I have hard time getting used to is some of the one time super shots like super lanes or super targets. The rest I've figured out but it has taken some time. I'd prefer it that way then a game I can figure out after a few days owning it.
Why T F doesn't Stern issue a detailed rule book in the freaking Manual. or at least when they actually finish the freaking rules? Never understood this at all. Do I really have to get them from Pinball News?
Pinball news has never published part two of the review so that may explain why some people are having a hard time. On top of that the pinball rules website doesn't seem to do in-depth reviews of games anymore. I always though it would be great to hold classes at the shows where the rules of games are explained to less-experienced players. Just an idea for the future if it hasn't already been done.
I would guess that well more than 50% of the hobby enjoys learning the rules by playing the game. Like I do. I'm not great with details. Not in my hobbies anyway. So there's no point in me reading a rule sheet until I've put 40 or 50 plays on a game. Even then, I often don't read them. I might look at the instruction card, but again, not until I've played a bunch of games. For me, the text makes no sense without context.
It's MORE FUN to learn the rules this way. Some might even say you're wimping out (to put it nicely) by reading rule sheets. Relax. Play a few more games. You'll figure it out.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Why T F doesn't Stern issue a detailed rule book in the freaking Manual. or at least when they actually finish the freaking rules? Never understood this at all. Do I really have to get them from Pinball News?
It could be that they are waiting for the code to be complete.... lol might be a while! But yeah I used to find their write ups to be very good!
I always play dozens of times before reading rules...but you'll never learn them all...especially if you need to play an unfamiliar game in a tourney or league.
What I find frustrating is with these new games where the rulesets are convoluted, if they're used in tournaments, a person who has a better understanding has a huge advantage. So those that know the rules actually have an incentive to not share that information with others in a competitive environment. I would like to see in tournaments of this type, some introduction to the game available to everybody so there's a little more of a level playing field. The whole point of the newest game being available at a tourney is to nullify other player's advantage, but it rarely happens. There's always someone who has an inside track.
Quoted from PinballHelp:What I find frustrating is with these new games where the rulesets are convoluted, if they're used in tournaments, a person who has a better understanding has a huge advantage. So those that know the rules actually have an incentive to not share that information with others in a competitive environment. I would like to see in tournaments of this type, some introduction to the game available to everybody so there's a little more of a level playing field. The whole point of the newest game being available at a tourney is to nullify other player's advantage, but it rarely happens. There's always someone who has an inside track.
If youre going to enter a tournament its probably a good idea to do a little homework & figure out the rules of the games involved in the tourney. If someone beats you cause they knew more about the game then who's fault is that?
Quoted from PinballHelp:What I find frustrating is with these new games where the rulesets are convoluted, if they're used in tournaments, a person who has a better understanding has a huge advantage. So those that know the rules actually have an incentive to not share that information with others in a competitive environment. I would like to see in tournaments of this type, some introduction to the game available to everybody so there's a little more of a level playing field. The whole point of the newest game being available at a tourney is to nullify other player's advantage, but it rarely happens. There's always someone who has an inside track.
Yeah, not to knock Lyman, but some of the super obscure rules (e.g. extra jackpot that depends on which song you are playing on a specific multiball) are kind of dickish and will give him an advantage against lesser players for years to come. Not based upon pinball skill (which he already has) but based upon knowing weird details like this in a competetive enviroment.
I don't think he sat down with this as his master plan to retake the world championship, but when I found out about that rule (which I'm still not clear on, people were confused when discussing it...) I thought that is pretty much the biggest B.S. I had read that day.
Weird bonus modes? Sure. Big bonus points for knowing what song was played on what tour? Not too interesting to me.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Yeah, not to knock Lyman, but some of the super obscure rules (e.g. extra jackpot that depends on which song you are playing on a specific multiball) are kind of dickish and will give him an advantage against lesser players for years to come. Not based upon pinball skill (which he already has) but based upon knowing weird details like this in a competetive enviroment.
I don't think he sat down with this as his master plan to retake the world championship, but when I found out about that rule (which I'm still not clear on, people were confused when discussing it...) I thought that is pretty much the biggest B.S. I had read that day.
Weird bonus modes? Sure. Big bonus points for knowing what song was played on what tour? Not too interesting to me.
Its been well documented when the bonus song jackpots occur in album & tour mb. If you dont know by now you havent researched enough.
Kinda ironic to see people complaining about one of the most interesting rulesets in ages to come along when everything when you compare it to what had been put out before it.
Own the game, love the game but dont understand the rules completely. I find this with all Sterns I have owned or play regularly. I appreciate the rule depth for what it is but, I miss being able to determine what the hell to do by the inserts. I just emplioy the shoot whatever flashes strategy.
Quoted from nocreditdot:Own the game, love the game but dont understand the rules completely. I find this with all Sterns I have owned or play regularly. I appreciate the rule depth for what it is but, I miss being able to determine what the hell to do by the inserts. I just emplioy the shoot whatever flashes strategy.
+1
Quoted from nocreditdot:Own the game, love the game but dont understand the rules completely. I just emplioy the shoot whatever flashes strategy.
+1
If its flashing, I shoot at it.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Yeah, not to knock Lyman, but some of the super obscure rules (e.g. extra jackpot that depends on which song you are playing on a specific multiball) are kind of dickish and will give him an advantage against lesser players for years to come. Not based upon pinball skill (which he already has) but based upon knowing weird details like this in a competetive enviroment.
I don't think he sat down with this as his master plan to retake the world championship, but when I found out about that rule (which I'm still not clear on, people were confused when discussing it...) I thought that is pretty much the biggest B.S. I had read that day.
Weird bonus modes? Sure. Big bonus points for knowing what song was played on what tour? Not too interesting to me.
This is absurd. You really think these rules were built so that Lyman can win more tournaments? This is the kind of bullcrap that makes me wonder why I'm even on this site. To say Lyman's detailed, interesting rules work is "dickish" is just, well, I don't have any more nice words like "absurd bullcrap" to say.
For the record, I don't own an AC/DC and anything I've figured out about the game is through play and observation. Watching other people play is a great idea, and if you're unsure about a rule the best way is to play some more.
I agree with PinballHelp's comment that obscure rules knowledge shouldn't be what makes the difference between a win and a loss in competition. For example, I once lost a tournament because the other player hit the ball-launch button for a secret award. (Well, I also got crushed by better play, but hey.) This is a big reason why PAPA wants to make and will continue to make tutorials and gameplay videos. In the AC/DC videos I have explained and talked about all the rules that have been referred to here as too obscure. The videos aren't exhaustive about rules, both because some of the rules aren't that important, and because I don't know them all.
Anyway. Lyman's "advantage against lesser players" comes from him being better at pinball than just about anyone on the planet, not from deliberately writing backdoor scoring rules!
Quoted from bkerins:For the record, I don't own an AC/DC and anything I've figured out about the game is through play and observation.
Interesting. I would have assumed all the higher ranked tournament players have had long conversations with Lyman concerning the rules. On a related note, is it frowned upon if someone owns the game and takes off the glass in order to learn the rules by hand? I've never done this with my AC/DC, but short of talking to Lyman, it seems like the most efficient way to learn the game.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater bk. I'm glad you're here to offer insight. Where do you live anyway? Come to NYC and lets play some pins. I used to be a champion myself ya know! (Name that movie).
Quoted from gweempose:is it frowned upon if someone owns the game and takes off the glass in order to learn the rules by hand?
Not at all. Go for it. I do this all the time looking for bugs.
Quoted from bkerins:This is absurd. You really think these rules were built so that Lyman can win more tournaments? This is the kind of bullcrap that makes me wonder why I'm even on this site. To say Lyman's detailed, interesting rules work is "dickish" is just, well, I don't have any more nice words like "absurd bullcrap" to say.
For the record, I don't own an AC/DC and anything I've figured out about the game is through play and observation. Watching other people play is a great idea, and if you're unsure about a rule the best way is to play some more.
I agree with PinballHelp's comment that obscure rules knowledge shouldn't be what makes the difference between a win and a loss in competition. For example, I once lost a tournament because the other player hit the ball-launch button for a secret award. (Well, I also got crushed by better play, but hey.) This is a big reason why PAPA wants to make and will continue to make tutorials and gameplay videos. In the AC/DC videos I have explained and talked about all the rules that have been referred to here as too obscure. The videos aren't exhaustive about rules, both because some of the rules aren't that important, and because I don't know them all.
Anyway. Lyman's "advantage against lesser players" comes from him being better at pinball than just about anyone on the planet, not from deliberately writing backdoor scoring rules!
Actually, I specifically said I don't think he did this to win at more tournaments, but the side effect is this will happen even if it is unintentional.
It seems like I am not the only person who is unclear about the bonus song (additional) song jackpots that are tied to a specific multiball... a bunch of owners don't know as well.
I'm just saying that this sort of scoring that is wholly unrepresented on the playfield state (and I assume inscructions card present on the game) takes the physical pinball skill away, and turns it into more a game of who knows the most obscure rules the best.
Obviously there is a balance to make the game interesting and skillful, to me this is just taking it too far. It sounds like we agree in spirit at the end of the day
Edit: rereading my post the word dickish does come off wrong... I did not mean Lyman was deliberately trying to screw over other playes, but the nitpicky nature of this rule does seem "suboptimal" to use a different word
Quoted from PinballHelp:What I find frustrating is with these new games where the rulesets are convoluted, if they're used in tournaments, a person who has a better understanding has a huge advantage. So those that know the rules actually have an incentive to not share that information with others in a competitive environment.
The exact same thing was said about Skyline when it first came out. In 1941. Some things never change.
Quoted from gweempose:Interesting. I would have assumed all the higher ranked tournament players have had long conversations with Lyman concerning the rules.
Do you enjoy having long talks about your job on your day off? I've never met Lyman, but I don't get a sense his phone is ringing off the hook. That would be a dick move. On a number of levels. The reason those players are highly ranked is because they practice a lot. Not because they have Lyman and Keith's phone numbers on speed dial.
Quoted from phishrace:I've never met Lyman, but I don't get a sense his phone is ringing off the hook. That would be a dick move. On a number of levels. The reason those players are highly ranked is because they practice a lot. Not because they have Lyman and Keith's phone numbers on speed dial.
The upper echelon tournament players are a pretty small and tight knit crowd. I can't imagine they would be hanging out with Lyman and the subject never came up.
Quoted from gweempose:The upper echelon tournament players are a pretty small and tight knit crowd.
Small maybe and somewhat tightly knit, but they're too far flung to best buds. Most usually only talk at tournaments. Asking a programmer for tips on his game at a tournament is borderline cheating, not to mention dickish (work-related talk).
Quoted from gweempose:I can't imagine they would be hanging out with Lyman and the subject never came up.
If he's still playing in league, those guys may be getting some nuggets. But I doubt anyone is drilling him the moment he arrives for league. That would be a dick move. You live in that area. Have you joined a league? You should join Lyman's league so you can tell us all about AC/DC. d
Quoted from phishrace:Asking a programmer for tips on his game at a tournament is borderline cheating, not to mention dickish (work-related talk).
Work related, perhaps, but at the the end of the day it's pinball talk, and isn't that the glue that keeps us all together? I've met Lyman a few times, and he always struck me as a cool, laid back guy. I can't imagine he'd have a problem with anyone asking him to clarify the rules on one of his games. Plus, it would seem to me that the rules would have to be transparent or there would be a huge conflict of interest whenever Lyman was playing a game in a tournament that he programmed.
There's a big difference between asking him to clarify a rule and asking him for a strategy. Knowing the rules isn't even half the battle anyway. You also have to have a strategy and SKILLS.
Too much emphasis here on knowing the rules here. You can know every rule on AC/DC like the back of your hand and still be shitty player.
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