(Topic ID: 138442)

Any way to bypass an Opto for testing?

By adam12hicks

8 years ago


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#1 8 years ago

Hi guys, not to beat this to death - but the Opto on my RCT has a receiver board that sits right next to a metal lug (I don't know the part exactly) when the playfield is lowered. This causes the board to short out, and then you're out another $$ every time.

I am awaiting a replacement, and will make sure there is some type of good solid insulation between them, but in the meantime I would like to bypass this OPTO to make sure the other switches in series are all working.

I see that the transmitter has a 2 wire connection (+/-) and the receiver, logically, has the same power connection, plus 2 additional connections. Is this a simple NO/NC type deal, or is the receiver board sending some digital or analog information back to the CPU to show state? I want to be able to 'plug' this hole so that the other micro swiches in the series will work and I can more fully test the machine. I might also decide to bypass the OPTO all-together if it continues to be problematic.

Thank you for your time and assistance!

Adam

#2 8 years ago

Look at the manual switch matrix chart on page 4, find the opto switch in question (i.e. "ball trough opto" for example) then find the row and column colors for the switch. An opto is essentially a regular switch with the addition of power to run the light transmission and detection circuits. The row and column of the switch matrix wires coming from the opto receiver side is the part that is essentially the same same as any regular mechanical switch. Using an alligator clip lead to short the row and column together at the switch would cause the CPU to detect a permanently closed switch response, while disconnecting row or column (as long as any daisy chaining remains intact) would cause the CPU switch matrix to detect it as a permanently open switch.

#3 8 years ago

Well I replaced the OPTO and it's working great now. I can run my finger through it and see the red LED light up. But none of my other switches on that circuit are working. It's maddening as they are seriously important switches for the play of the game.

The tech report shows no issues, or any switches stuck closed. I'm at a loss now. The plugs in the vicinity are all numbered by marker, which makes me think someone disconnected them all at one point and checked them for continuity. I would think if something had shorted and blown anything on the main board it would be obvious?

Guess I'll need to find a local repair-person to see if they can fix it

#4 8 years ago

What, you're going to give up that easily now?

If you want to give another whack at it, here are my thoughts: You said you replaced the opto and now it is working fine (meaning, registers in switch test properly as open and closed when activated) This also tells me the row and column wires for the opto switch are working correctly, including detection for that row and column at the MPU board.
So which switches exactly are not working?

#5 8 years ago

Ok thanks for keeping me honest. I'm NOT giving up so easily

After a VERY friendly call to Stern tech support, he showed me how to pull the two connectors on the CPU board for switch column and rows, and jump those while in switch test to see if the problem was on the playfield / wiring or on the main board. Turns out that Pin6 on the column set of pins did not register a switch when jumped, while all others did. That leads us to believe that the associated 'Q' transistor is bad, and that it's nothing with the hardware below.

So I have some transistors on order for next day delivery (of course Amazon only had them in qty of 100 for next day. I need 1.) But for $8, if it fixes my $400 pinball machine, I'm still ahead!

I haven't ever replaced a transistor before, but my soldering skills are average+ and I think if I'm careful it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

Now if this doesn't fix it, I'll be back to scratching my head again.

#6 8 years ago

You are on the right track. Use care in desoldering and replacing that transistor and if for any reason you don't feel comfortable with doing the work call in for help. Hope that is all that you need, good luck!

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from adam12hicks:

I haven't ever replaced a transistor before, but my soldering skills are average+ and I think if I'm careful it shouldn't be too big of a deal.

Cut the transistor off the board and then desolder the pins. Not the cool way of doing it, but it is the safer way. Add a little flux before desoldering.

#8 8 years ago

Will do. Thanks for the advice! I pulled the board and while all of the transistors looked fine on the front, the backside definitely tells the tale. Sure enough, Q5, the circuit in question looks like somebody took a match to the back of the board between those three pins. I think I might pick up a higher precision soldering iron before I dive into this one.

Thank you guys! Here's hoping this will get me back to 100%!

#9 8 years ago

Oh hey - and while I have you guys here... I ordered updated ROMS for the CPU and Display, and I also ordered the NVRAM RAM replacement so I can pull the alkaline batteries. Do I need a chip puller to get these things out or is it a matter of gently prying / twisting at both sides with a small flathead screwdriver? It's been a LONG time since I pulled any ROM chips from anything.

Thanks!
Adam

#10 8 years ago

Small screwdriver is fine. If you want to save the ROM, work back and forth between the two ends.

#11 8 years ago

Perfect thank you!

#12 8 years ago

Desoldered the transistor no problem. I'm a little worried about the traces on the board, as it's pretty fried on the back. I think they're all intact, but I suppose all I can do is attach the new transistor and hope for the best. Will know before end of the day tomorrow!

At least I know what caused the blown transistor, and have addressed it, so if this fixes my issue it should be good for a long while.

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from adam12hicks:

as it's pretty fried on the back.

If the trace has carbon on it you need to clean it with a fiberglass pen and then alcohol. If the trace is not clean the solder will not adhere properly. Post a photo if in doubt.

#14 8 years ago

ok I'll try to clean it up. I've never seen or used a fiberglass pen... will try to locate one at a local electronics supply shop.

#15 8 years ago

Success! I received my pack of 100 transistors from Amazon.com (next day delivery, can't beat that) and soldered one onto the board using the existing remaining solder points (I know, it's not the way a perfectionist would do it, but I didn't want to use any new solder and risk jumping the points. There was 'just the right amount' left in each of the holes.

Anyways, after installing the new transistor (and an NVRAM memory replacement) I re-installed the board and connected everything up, and for the FIRST TIME, all of my switch tests were a success.

What a difference it makes when you have the ramp sense switches working (kind of a big deal!) plus a number of other sensors at the rear of the table. It's definitely a whole new machine, and the fun and scores have skyrocketed.

Thanks to all for the support and assistance. There's definitely a sense of satisfaction from fixing this myself vs. paying someone a few hundred bucks to do the same, or shelling out MANY hundred bucks for a new CPU board.

My $400 pinball machine is still a bargain afterall

#16 8 years ago

22400365.jpg22400365.jpg

#17 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Cut the transistor off the board and then desolder the pins. Not the cool way of doing it, but it is the safer way. Add a little flux before desoldering.

Or~~~~cut the transistor legs and leave them. Solder new one to the old legs. Sure it ends up sticking up higher than the others but it is much easier than desoldering the old legs out. I did this twice on my Baywatch 4 years ago and still fine

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from Warbound:

Or~~~~cut the transistor legs and leave them. Solder new one to the old legs. Sure it ends up sticking up higher than the others but it is much easier than desoldering the old legs out. I did this twice on my Baywatch 4 years ago and still fine

Sure it will work, and maybe you'll never have a problem - but that's a lazy hack job. Unless you wrap the legs together there is the potential for vibration to crack the solder prematurely. If you've already cut the transistor legs, the remaining parts of the legs are very easy to get out and do the job right with a clean professional look that will last. Just sayin'

#19 8 years ago

Well I should add that the damned thing failed again. Opto went out, and transistor went bad after. I pulled the opto and ordered another one. Tested voltage going into opto and it seemed fine. Not sure what's happening. This time, however, I completely desoldered the 'old' transistor and put a new one in after removing all old solder. Nice and clean, with proper length legs and all. Everything but the failed opto is working again (meaning all of the switches that run off of the column Q5 handles) - so we'll see how long it lasts. I just can't imagine what is causing it to fail. But since I've only tried one Opto and one transistor, I'm going to give it another shot with fresh parts.

Adam

#20 8 years ago

Looks like voltage being introduced in the line, killing the transistor and Opto. Don't know why or where though. Crap.

3 years later
#21 5 years ago

I’ve had the same problem. Check your ghost switch and make sure the foam behind it is good. If that switch grounds itself it blows Q5.

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