I think you are right that most buying MMR won't be selling anytime soon. Most bought it because the game play and rules are a known commodity, which is different than new games from other manufacturers and they want/expect to have a Medieval Madness for a long time. Whatever the resale hit is won't matter, because the game won't be for sale. (This is why as an MM owner, I didn't really care if my game was valued by others at $18k, $10k, $8k or whatever, because I'm not going to sell it anyway).

If there are issues with the board sets or the games that aren't resolved quickly, then you may see some discounted sales (like WOZ with early light board issues), but I suspect this isn't very likely.

However, there are apparently a lot of people buying an MMR just based on the reputation of MM. Some in this group may find they don't like the game Medieval Madness as much as they think and may have to sell at a steeper discount than you might expect because few that want the game (that don't already have one on order) are going to buy anywhere near $8k since (a) they won't be eligible for any warranty coverage and (b) if you are going to spend that much, you might as well buy a new one. And since PPS says MMRs are going to be produced as long as there is demand, it may take longer for HUO copies to sell without a significant discount.

I don't know if 25% is the right figure, but looking at recent WOZ sales, it may not be too far off. The higher the purchase price, the steeper the depreciation hit.

To guess the resale price on a game thats still in production is F€£#ING rediculous. No one knows the future of PPS ? We don't know exactly how games are built yet ? You Haters of mmr find something better to do

I follow the ones I am interested in. But most of those threads already have others doing the same thing, so there is no reason for me to. It's also pretty clear that the issues in the other threads are understood by most who participate in them.

That's obviously not the case here since the posters who are so upset with my participation would rather just put their heads in the sand and give Rick a free pass. That approach isn't working too well for the JPOP and DP folks. Fortunately, the PPS issues are far easier to fix.

You may be right, time will tell but I'm predicting they don't fall below $6500 with any consistancy. Now if theysell 2000 standards that would change things.

If a lot of the sales are based off of reputation (1000 sales would suggest that might be true) then there is likely to be 100 or more hit the used market pretty quickly. It will be interesting to see what the drop truly turns out to be. As long as the build and electronics are solid mine will not be leaving so I can enjoy the ride for the time being.

Many think or have thought the same but it never effected the price.

Thats why I believe that the price for the original will stay relatively put.

And that's all that really matters, right? What the resale prices will be aren't going to matter, so who cares if the hit is 10% or 25%?

but before it also had collectibility. MMr has zero collectibility factor.

It will beinterestiung to see where it goes.

Obviously total number made will have a big effect. I also have been told 250 made, then Stern moves, then the rest get fit into production post move. I think this dealy will be frustrating to many and will also impact the oevrall game numbers originally sold. If PPS/CGC was smart they would have all 1000 LEs made before actually shipping a single one. For their business model they want to prevent people from second guessing this high end purchase and ride what little excitement is left on the delivery by dumping all 1000 LEs into owners hands at the same time.

I agree, but I think MMr WILL be collectable to a certain extent...It's still a MM pin.

Man I love the ignore button.

This thread should be renamed "Toolbox".

only time will tell, but likely only the original will have collectibility. The remake will have desire for playing but not for collecting. Maybe 20 years from now, but more likely all our games will be near worthless in 20 years unless the pinball revolution currently happening can manage to bring in a new generation of teenagers to play.

It's only collectible when you can't get it, once anyone can get the game it's just another game. It's not that great of a game. BTW I own a real one.

I vote for "MMR: Stalkers and Speculators". They can't leave an update thread well enough alone.

Yes .. The flight left on time ... Over eastern Nevada ... Will be at stern with cgc later today at the mmr line .. Now colorado ... Now nebraska ... Now Iowa .... NOW Wisconsin/Illinois!!!! Daddy is almost home little mmr! (Or maybe I am godfather ...)

Looks like a little bit of the white stuff on the ground ...

AA46 for those who want to track my every movement

[email protected]

Very exciting

Why won't Rick say what the in-flight movie is???

Call him and find out.

Just so I understand your "double or more" math, you're saying there are only 1,000 MM out there right now (so that adding 1,000 LEs would double that)? I thought there were ~ 4,000 MM made originally, and while I'm sure some have been lost over the years it's hard to believe 3/4 of them were. Remember, we only expect with reasonable certainty that they're making the 1,000 LEs, they may or may not ever make any Standards. Just an uneducated guess, but I'd imagine MM supply being bumped at most 25% by the remake.

I highly doubt we'll quickly see MMr routinely selling for $6k, and if we do then great for me since I'd like to own one someday. But just consider that by wringing your hands about the possibility of people losing 25% when they drive their new pin off the lot, you're only dissuading others from buying NIB, which will result in lower production numbers, which could in turn result in ... higher prices for you when you're looking to buy a HUO a year or two down the road!

I don't say as not doing so might create 100+ Posts from the conspiracy theorists here as to whether I really am or not flying out ... As well as if PPS/CGC caused the blizzard as an excuse for another delay ... Or not.

Also. The earth appears to be round from my vantage point.

Lol

I think there are probably 500 nice condition MM, another 500 in fair condition, and another 1000 in players shape. 2000 in total.

I think Rick claims that 1000 MMrLe are already sold and the goal is 1000 more standards?

Even if only 1000 LE get made then the number of nice MMs will more than double and 1500 LE and nice originals is alot of games on the high end all at once.

I am not wringing my hands at MMr dropping in value and honestly have zero desire to ever own the game again. I would consider buying one to put on route if the numbers made sense but they likely won't for me and if I am buying big dollar for route then there are better options IMO.

I don't mean to disuade anyone from buying what makes them happy, but if they are concerned with value in combination with fun, then I hope they are paying attention or ready to see 2k evaporate.

Funny stuff. What conspiracies do you think there are? You are the only person in the entire thread referencing conspiracy theorists - what are they theorizing?

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That's a new one on me. If Rick said that at some point, I doubt it still holds (you probably also doubt it still holds, since I think I saw a post of yours once speculating that only 600 of the original 1,000 LE buyers were still on board).

Right, anyone buying any NIB game at this point needs to be prepared to lose a good chunk of money if they resell it. Buying NIB and expecting it to maintain or increase in value would be nuts in this market.

He is theorizing that you are a forum troll that is contributing nothing to this thread. You made your point, great. Now move on. You contribute absolutely nothing to this thread and certainly act like the moral police for every pinhead out there.

We heard you and we don't care what you have to say anymore!

Ignore on.....

Way, way off base. So where did the other 2000 go?

Has anyone heard of, or known of anyone hearing of the parting out of a MM? Or the dumpstering of one for simply being worn out?

I can't imagine there being LESS than 3500 MMs currently. It was one of the first games to get lots of parts reprod, and with the consistent demand since 1998, only someone ignorant to its value would have parted/trashed one without trying to sell it as-is first. And every beater I ever saw did sell, often quickly.

Hey guys!
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overseas and never came back, fires, floods, tornadoes.

Time takes its toll and MANY MMs were beat and then dumped from operators that made theri money and wanted to make sure the dead to them machine did not become competition.

4400 originally produced.

50% overseas, but probably 10% came back?

Let's say 2640 even possible to be in the US. We are nearing 20 years since the game was made in 1997 which means plenty of time for sh!t to happen. It would not be unheard of to have 50 die in a year from standard wear/tear or disaster. I know of an operator in central IL that parted 2 of them to keep 1 running and then sometime around 2001 they trashed the last one. Literally would burn them in the fire pit on his country property since they were of no value to the business.

My estimate of 2000 was generous. Of those 2000, 670 are currently listed as owned by pinsiders with 825 dreamers. If so many people wanted them and there were still 4000+ of them around then more would be owners instead of wishers.

Math holds when looking at other titles and factoring in production numbers, perceived desire, and time that has lapsed.

Even 1000 MMrLE hitting the supply line are HUGE influx of MMs. Virtually all pent up demand should be fullfilled (a good thing for those that want the game), but that also will translate to a large supply available when anyone wants to sell in the future.

Wow - another person more worried about me than the updates or issues.

Technically, no one without an actual production update is contributing anything to this thread.

That's funny. Seems to me it's you and all the others insisting I not post here are the moral police.

It's pretty simple - if the problem gets fixed, I go away. If Rick answers the questions he said he would answer, I go away. If Rick stops treating anyone with an off script question as a hater or a loon, I go away.

There will always be more original MMs than MMRs, unless anyone really thinks they are going to pump out 3000 standards.

Yep. This game has been in high demand pretty much from the moment it came out.

If we put you on Ignore...you go away...

also... have you noticed Rick hasn't said the word Predator in any of his updates in the last year?

ohhh whoops... wrong thread...

On Twitter he said it was WOZ.

Not only that, there were some that were built out of parts from the ground up in recent years. Probably like five, but still shows that this is not a game that was trashed out too frequently. I'll bet fires and floods account for about maybe 5% loss of the originals. Now if we were invaded and major US cities carpet bombed during the last 20 years, then I would bump that number up to a possible 50%.

None of that makes sense. Overseas... who cares? Pinball is an international market.. any games competing with MM will sell to the same markets, so it doesn't matter where the games are.

Fires, tornados, floods.. have killed what, two known examples? (PAPA)

Do you have ANY real evidence to support that ridiculous claim of ops destroying MMs? That kind of stuff happened in the 60s, not the 00s. I mean, one dude in central IL (sounds pretty rural to me) does not mean all ops were that blind to market conditions.

I think the fact that 670 of 4400 happen to be listed here demonstrates even more the fact almost all 4400 still exist. This is a niche website and only a fraction of MM owners will post their games. My personal MM is not listed here and I know of a few others in town not represented as well.

Can't say what the rest of the market will do, but I can positively state my MMr will not drop in value at all.

In-flight-movie-gate!!!!

It's probably Predator.

I'm starting to feel like maybe I'm the only person genuinely excited to devalue my pin by opening the box and playing it

not the only one. it's just that those of us who are excited to own and play the game are simply less likely to obsessively post about its resale value!

That's my favorite thing to do! Can't wait!

Only Pinsiders would speculate about devaluation of a game that has not even rolled off the line yet...

I figure by now the troll must have replied, here you go troll on........

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And why wouldn't anyone that's potentially interested in a game not speculate on future value before purchasing? I do it when I buy a new car or any other expensive purchase. I know many people buy games and keep them forever but some people like myself buy games knowing we'll switch them out within a few years once we get tired of playing them. Only so much space and money that even many of my all time favorite pins have been sold over the years. Isn't it smart to try and make an educated guess of what you NIB pin will be worth when you sell it so that you can hopefully reduce the financial hit you'll take when selling it?

Enough BS about resale,I'm unboxing a brand new MM, not restored,not rebuilt,not routed ! Let's see some pics of the assembly and for the rest of you clowns with your nonsense negative imput find another thread to bash.

Dude! But... But that's gonna ruin the value!!

Can you post some pictures before you do anything to it? It would be interesting to see what condition the rubbers are in, batteries (hopefully not leaking!), etc.

People forget the simplest thing about this game: Medieval Madness....in 2013, a "brand new quality" MM was $15k-20k. Now it's $8k with upgrades like shaker motor & uncompressed audio. For people who wanted a MM, that's a "reasonable" price, and they're happy with the opportunity to get the game for less than $10k.

End of story.

This isn't like a new Stern where you're buying it unsure about the game & code. MM is established...people know what they're getting, and they're getting it to play and enjoy - not to sell in a month.

Pretty sure he meant unboxing an MMR, not an original.