Whatever the next show was after Texas (Pin a Go Go?) until today is how long it's been going on. Maybe 6 months or so?

I'm surprised the anti MMR guys didn't make a joke about the fire extinguisher being right next to the MMRLE. Tying it in to the whole UL thing.
I guess it's because Whysnow is too busy defending Predator on another thread
Thanks for the review and pics Jalpert

Heroic Skit B defender one page, PPS conspiracy theorist the next.

He has a point whysnow, you would of been on the attack in the Predator thread for a post like the one you made here.... Just sayin!

I can't tell if you guys are dense or trolling...

It is common that on an internet forum the winky emoticon is used to denote someone is joking.

Now you learned something today so check thursday off as a good day!

Funny I was wondering the same thing about you

Yeah, this post raised my eyebrows after reading all of his MMr refund advice over the past week:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/predator-players-guide/page/22#post-2008718

Call him what?

Hope they get it "certified".

Apples and oranges. 2 totally different companies, agreements, and promises.

Thus far it is my understanding that no one has had a missed delivery date for predator nor has the agreed build changed. No communication sucks but still everything as promised at this time.

I also will choose to treat a company run by real heads and thus far has met all promises different than some guy just looking to take constantly and missed promises.

I will say they both have very poor communication skills, but one seems to avoid it while the other lies to customers. Neither is a good way to do things.

_{Post edited by moderator: Edited derogatory term used against Rick}

"lies to customers"
Care to explain that comment.
I have been in this project from the beginning and have not been lied to ever.
Unless your referring to the other project(which I know nothing about)

FFS! Who in the WIDE BLUE FK actually thought the games would ship exactly on time...I have been in for a year and knew from the beginning that it would be Christmas at best that I would see a game. There is a big difference between lies and delays. IMO it only is a lie if the person is knowingly spreading misinformation. Rick might be a lot of things but I dont think that he is a liar, an optimist maybe but not a liar. Other than Stern ,who has been building games for forever, has any startup company shipped exactly on time? Expecting otherwise is the definition of insanity... The only complaints people should have are with the distributors that broke the original promise and expected full payment before production began. PPS has not required any additional money since my initial deposit (and I wouldnt send any until we are a few weeks from shipment per the original agreement)

Are they REALLY that much different? They look like two companies offering pinball machines for the first time. That's apples to apples in my view. I'm sure you could find ways to differentiate the two in the minutia, but who really cares? I'm not in on Predator and don't know what's been going on though I read a bit of that Predator thread. Total shit show. On the other hand, Rick has always answered my questions when asked. His weekly updates on the PPS blog are great and we are finally heading into the home stretch with MMR.

You are irrelevant here. I suggest you stay over in Predator where you have a vested interest and stop being such a hypocrite and stinking up MMR threads.

Can you with a straight face say that MMr customers are 100% legally entitled to a refund of their deposits, but Predator customers are 100% legally bound by their commitment to make the deposits non-refundable? That's how I read your alternating posts in the Predator and MMr threads, and it's hard for me to see it.

Yes. Agreements were completely different. PPS is in breech for missed deadline and change of product expectations post payment (no coin mechs, no production post promised deadline, changed features that do not match original.). They set the contract and have missed it. i would hope in the future they also learn from this and set better expectations from the promises next time.

I do not know of anything that SkitB is in breech of at this point.

Per consumer protection laws you as a consumer have rights to full refund what preordering a contract and the seller has changed the terms.

has skitB breeched in anyway? Don't say that lack of good communication is a breech because it unfortunately isn't.

The other big difference is that PPS is a huge multimillion dollar company and skitB is some guys like us in a basement. Your expectations should be very different IMHO. If they arent then you are setting yourself up for failure and disappointment from the start.

May be we (non MMr buyers) should stay out of that thread (title is about production update !).
I was so p*$$ed by the recent predator bashing (mostly by non Predator owners) I certainly don't want MMr owners to experience the same repetitive bashing regarding their game.

It's hard to tell if someone is joking when their posts aren't even remotely funny...

If you guys don't have anything constructive to do...I'll find something...

Whysnow, I don't mean to single you out here, but I do. As a long time listener and occasional caller so-to-speak, I've had it with people like you who have no vested interest in the project being the most vocal critics.

Does anyone else with an MMR have a full blown agreement with definite terms between them and PPS and/or their distributor as Whysnow suggests? The answer will be no. All I received from Jack was a sales order, updated along the way to show that my order is paid in full. Get the facts before passing off your uneducated conjecture as fact.

Coin mechs? Really, we're still on the coin mechs? You certainly don't understand the legal concept of a material breach of contract which has not happened here.

Missed production deadline due to circumstances beyond PPS's control? You certainly don't understand the legal concept of contract frustration as an affirmative defense to a breach of contract claim.

Changed features? Don't you mean improvements? Updated technology (disclosed in the beginning of this process), color DMD support, shaker, LEDs with incandescent emulation, double hardcoat? The horror!!! Because many of these "changed" features were announced along the way before deposits were locked (6 months+ from announcement), everyone had the opportunity to back out if they were instead expecting a carbon copy of MM.

This statement makes it clear that you have never been a plaintiff, or defendant for that matter, in a commercial dispute using statutory rights as the basis for your cause of action. Having statutory protections and enforcing them in court sounds great in theory but in reality can be so complex and costly that it is often not worth pursuing, especially in a case such as this. And why wouldn't a breach of contract, as you claim, simply be that without the need for invoking consumer protection laws? You do not possess even a rudimentary understanding of the law and should not be making statements that are so far over your head.

Now this is a fact. How many folks on the Predator preorder, in your opinion, would trade the issues they are enduring to instead get their machine by XMAS/early 2015 but without coin mechs?

I suggest that if you want to continue having these "hiding the ball" arguments that you take them to the Predator thread where no one even knows who has possession.

I didn't know you were a lawyer.

hypocrisy-meter.png

Damn Whysnow,
have to agree after throwing a fit on the Skitb thread to be over here doing the same thing. Dude!

it's the repetitiveness that's the problem. questions and criticisms are fine. having an MMR on order isn't required in order to have an opinion on it or question about it.

but when it's the same guy all the time ... someone who has no immediately apparent stake in the matter, but pops in every day to bash the game, the idea of remaking the game, the people who are remaking the game, and actively works on people to seek refunds, etc, it's just kind of weird and annoying.

Since Pinside has so many followers, I guess it's bound to happen that each new game and every manufacturer has at least one disgruntled individual who makes it their personal crusade to hound all topics centered around the game or manufacturer they have a problem with.

It's surprising the amount of negative impact even one such person can have on thread after thread for those who just want to discuss things in an honest way.

Yup

Double yup.

First of all, if you are going to keep using the word repeatedly, at least learn to spell it correctly: BREACH. "Breech" is something entirely different.

Second of all, are you F'ing kidding me?

He made it clear that he isn't. Did you see how he spelled "breach"?

Now wait a minute, Whysnow appears to have been talking out of his breech, so maybe he spelled it just how he intended to ...

Getting back to MMRLE.... Does any one know how shipping is being handled (what company, I.E. STI / NAVL) if you bought your game directly from PPS like I did ?! Does any one know what the cost will be to ship the game ?

This was posted in a TWD code thread from someone who appears to have an inside man at Stern.

...waiting with baited breath for The Pin LE

Seriously, I thought that was a disaster, with the non-servicable playfields and lots of games returned. Was it successful enough to repeat, or is its inclusion a joke?

Tomorrow officially breaks the mid Oct plans for shipping.

Well they did say "+/-".

in other words ish...

.

Believe it or not, The Pin is a modestly successful part of Stern's business.

It's something out of Ripley's.

Hello folks at PPS providing the MMRLE to me, in the near future. Take your time and get it as correct as you can in all aspects, with sufficient QA/QC and commissioning. Your first machine will always have start-up issues. Ask Henry Ford, etc. For me, its okay that automatedservices has my $1K deposit since July 2014. I appreciate automatedservices service and PPS folks doing what they are doing. Take your time and get it right the first time. No worries on delivery, just make the best remake of Medieval Madness, AFM, CC, and CV. Oh, and ship the Gold trim LEs to Arizona first, before the Pro Bowl and Super Bowl would be fine. It is going to be a party....Cardinal fans welcome!!

And again, a broken record.... if you (PPS/Stern/JJP/Insert your name here) develop an outdoor installation/operation NEMA 3R package option, I will be a buyer. Build it, and they will buy it.....
If I can drive a car outdoor, the technology is available to play a pinball machine outside.

MMRLE at the DPO!
Latest update from the PPS Update Thread.
Played well. Rick will post pics on PPS Thread as soon as they start coming in!

DPO?

Dutch Pinball Open.
~Steveo

I bought my game directly from PPS does any one know what delivery service is being utilized for distribution ? How much is it going to be to ship to NY... I'm guessing these are coming from Chicago IL ? I feel like these games are on the cusp of being produced.

As a side note who can sneak into Stern and get some additional production photos... Or video. Speaking of video id love some more game play vids of the MMRLE's. I've seen people review the one at Logan's arcade but no videos of it to my knowledge as well as recently at DPO... Thanks in advance !

Eagerly awaiting PPS next update UL's gotta be finished at the point.

Some remarks from several visitors about the MMre at DPO

- cabinet looked very awesome;
- played very smooth and fast; (some said better then an Original MM);
- flipper buttons didnt play exactly the same as Original MM; (strength)
- gold trim options can look different when you expect it to be like a IJ or LOTR;
- screen colors was for some ppl disappointing; should be nice for Hulk or TF but should be in full colors to be perfect;

Seems at the end of the show there were some problems with the bridge (didnt open anymore or was half stuck) But can happen after a whole show...
Also the setup wasnt perfect done but can be normal if you have to install at a show so many pinballs in a short time...

In general the MMre buyers seems to be happy; maybe after some more fine tuning or software updates some improvement can be there (flipper buttons + display)

<Rick

Tata --> constantly looking for any negative scrap about MM.

- I thought these were adjustable, are you referring to the actual flipper strength ? or the actual leaf buttons which are generally manually adjustable... either way that should be an easy fix.
-glad I went with BLACK to match the rest of the hardware... but really trim can ultimately be changed any ways... these all seem so trivial.

Yes just the flipper strength, so should be adjustable... the setup wasnt done well...
In overall everybody was very positive !

I've sidelined myself on commenting regarding production of this machine but this is getting ridiculous. U.L. states on their website that they allow production while testing, when a manufacturer is 'gung ho'. Why, oh why is Chicago Coin being so passive?

If UL requires something to change, they'd have to re-do built games. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Chicago Gaming.

Call Doug and talk to him, not passive at all.

LTG : )