(Topic ID: 200412)

Any Shuffle Bowlers out There?


By HD_Fatboy

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 82 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 36 days ago by pinballbrian
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 30 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    pin setter (resized).png
    Firebird 4 (resized).jpeg
    Firebird 3 (resized).jpeg
    firebird 2 (resized).jpeg
    Firebird 1 (resized).jpeg
    15351355543721669237864 (resized).jpg
    15346401334192080376338 (resized).jpg
    Bowler1 (resized).jpg
    bowler (resized).jpg
    15225384563921262883359 (resized).jpg
    20180228_100712 (resized).jpg
    037715590e09a543d7fb9d404ccc30200c3fa21f (resized).jpg
    Wms-Full-House-Front-1 (resized).jpg
    image4 (resized).jpeg
    image3 (resized).jpeg
    image2 (resized).jpeg

    There are 82 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    Hi all, on Saturday I picked up a United Shuffle Tempest. I spent most of yesterday and all of today cleaning the score reels. All 24 had that spring loaded lever that holds the reel I placed until the coil moves it. Some was so froze together that two of the the post broke lose in stead of the lever.

    Anyways, All are freed up and working, but two players are not resetting to zero, I am looking for a little help with what to look for onm that.

    and last off, flash scoring not working it just sits with 100, 300 light lit on the table.

    Thanks in advance for any and all help

    united (resized).jpg

    united2 (resized).jpg

    #2 2 years ago

    Hi All,

    I figured out the resetting issue, switch adjustments on these reels fixed that issue.

    Still issues with the flash game, and I can not change between regular strike and easy strike. The coil for the game selection seems to be energized all the time. I am assuming this is correct due to some type of game is always selected?

    #3 2 years ago

    Can anyone give any input on the game modes and flash not seeming to work correctly?

    #4 2 years ago

    Anyone? I took apart and cleaned the flash motor, What causes the motor to run? all I can come up with is when you turn on flash mode?

    Am I incorrect?.....I got everything else working which in my case is pretty good considering how long this thing sat in someone's basement.

    I figured out the easy strike mode and regular strike mode......same as all the score reels.....I spring loaded lever seized up on its shaft.

    #5 2 years ago

    Had you gone through and cleaned the Game Selector Step Up Unit.
    And also, does that unit have spring loaded wipers?

    #6 2 years ago

    Hi Mopar, thanks for jumping in here.

    No I have not, I assumed, which I know I shouldn't that it must be functioning properly because the different light modes light when I press the selector button above the coin box. Also, when I play a game of regular it scores correctly. when I play flash or bonus it seems to score correctly. of course on flash and dual flash the same value is always lit cause the flash motor is not running. Unless something else elsewhere needs to make contact with something to also make the flash motor run

    #7 2 years ago

    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

    Take a look at this document on how to fully service an EM machine. I'd recommend getting a copy of the schematics and go to town!

    If you service all the steppers I wouldn't be surprised if it solves your issue.

    #8 2 years ago

    Also to answer your question yes, Game Selector Step Up Unit does have spring loaded wipers

    #9 2 years ago

    Your welcome. I don't work on the bowlers as much as in the past, but
    the last few were from the 50s. It's been awhile since I worked on one with
    Flash, but the Flash Motor energizes through the Game Selector Unit when
    on Flash or Dual Flash. Tempest is Williams right? If so, I'm thinking the Game
    Selector's wiper may be individually spring loaded. You'll want to take the wiper
    off and clean the wiper board's rivots either way, but if the wiper is spring loaded,
    it's a good idea to put a couple drops of light weight oil in each individual wiper
    hole and then move each one in and out a few times to make sure each one is
    free and not sticking. Cleaning and lubing the Step Up Units are a good size
    plus for the machine.. (T)

    #10 2 years ago

    Mopar, Tempest is a United. I will work on it again tomorrow after work, after 9 here and winding down. I will clean up this unit and report back here tomorrow, Thanks very much for stopping in, greatly appreciated! my schematic is a little fuzzy on the relationship between the flash motor and the Game Selector Step Up Unit.

    #11 2 years ago

    Oh yes, I just looked it up. Tempest is a 1964 which is before Williams bought United. I think
    in the 60s, Williams stayed with the spring loaded wipers. Anyways, like Fattdirk said, servicing
    the Step Ups are a huge plus, especially cleaning and lubing the score motor's wiper board
    (which gets heavily used), and the Flash motor's wiper board which also would have
    much more friction when on Flash without the lube (light grease)..
    I'm pretty sure the Player-Step-Up-Unit also has the spring loaded wipers. I'd do the
    same servicing on that..
    Glad you care about your vintage machine. Happy to help of I can..

    #12 2 years ago

    OK I serviced the step up game selector unit, it appears to run well. I also did the frame select unit. the only ones left I did not service is the 6 strike spare units, but they seem to be working. I was going back to try to figure out the flask motor when I noticed the brake coil on this motor had the plate where the wires connect to was broke (see picture.) I also noticed one wire off. I am super gluing the plate on and then going to solder back on the winding wires, I do not know if I can find a coil or not parts for these seem nearly impossible to get.

    So for me to have some piece of mind, is there a way I can jump the flash motor? if I put 50 volts to this thing shouldn't it run?
    I need to find a way to test this motor.

    Thanks all in advanced!

    IMG_0458 (resized).JPG

    #13 2 years ago

    You should be able to get that coil. I wouldn't be surprised if
    PBR has one, but when repairing, don't forget to scrape away
    the wires outside coating before sodering..
    I'm pretty sure the flash motor is fine, but to check, this is
    where a vari-ac is handy. I use mine quite a bit..
    Did a wire on one of the brake coil's lugs jump to one of the
    flash motor's lugs? If so, you should be able to jump it off the
    brake coil's hot lead. When the game selector is on flash, and the
    1st Shot Relay hasn't been energized, that lead should be hot.
    You may be able to jump it of the lock coils hot lead also.
    Do you have schematics for the machine? If so, maybe you can
    take a pic of the flash motor's circuit..

    #14 2 years ago

    Hi Mopar, thanks again for helping out here is a pic I hope it works. It looks like flash motor and flash coil share one lead.

    IMG_0462 (resized).JPG

    #15 2 years ago

    Hi Mopar, thanks again for helping out here is a pic I hope it works. It looks like flash motor and flash coil share one lead.

    wire1 (resized).jpg

    #16 2 years ago

    Okay, the Flash Relay's circuit travels through the Game Selector. So, when on
    Flash, is the Flash Relay energized? If so, you'll want to check those contacts,
    and a few other relay's contacts that are in that circuit, but lets first make certain
    that the Flash Relay is energized when the Game Selector is on Flash..

    #17 2 years ago

    Thanks again Mopar, I will check out that circuit tomorrow after work and report my findings here.

    #18 2 years ago

    I checked this out this morning, Flash Relay is energized when flash game is selected. I was messing with switches on the one coil bank, and I could have swore motor started but not 100% sure because it was not mounted on back board because of working on release coil. I thought it was the roll over coil switches. Does this make any sense?

    #19 2 years ago

    The schematics shows a switch in the 1-10 and #1 Relays (which are in the bank) need
    to be closed and also it looks like Ball Relay but probably saids something else.
    If you find the Flash Motor on the schematic and follow its circuit line upward, you'll
    see the relays that are in that circuit. It'll say Flash and then have a circle with like a
    lightning bolt through it to represent the motor, but check the contacts in the #1 and
    1-10 Relays for sure..
    You could put a volt meter on the flash motor to check if it has juice, and yet no working,
    but I'm 99% sure that the motor is okay..

    #20 2 years ago

    I just came upstairs from working on the bowler. I finally got the flash motor working ( it was froze up.) I soldered the wire back on the release coil, but I do not think its working correctly. I will try to find a new one.

    Funny thing now going on, Now the Bowler thinks 6 players are playing when I only tell it one bowler, tomorrow is another day.

    #21 2 years ago

    When it plays 6 players, yet it's set on single play, it
    does reset back to the first player, or stays on player 6?
    Glad you found the flash problem. I'm a little surprise
    the motor was frozen tight..

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    I'm a little surprise
    the motor was frozen tight..

    It was a combination of the motor being very dirty and the release coil not releasing, staying engaged in the gear,
    going to give pbr a call today to see about the coil.

    #23 2 years ago

    I got all the games working and scoring as they should be, on all players. Only thing left to do is lights, which I think is going to be the hardest part. these sockets must not be the best, and some bulbs I can not figure out how to get to at this point, I will more and likely be back for some advice on these.

    By the way flash release coil is not installed at this time but flash seems to be working correctly

    Thanks mopar and fattdirk!

    #24 2 years ago

    The Flash is working, that's good, but once the brake coil is back in,
    it'll stop on a dime the way its meant to be. Also there's like a cork
    little spring loaded clutch in the Flash Unit, right? You'll want to make
    sure that the clutch bits, but also is able to break loose..
    On the bulbs, putting the #47s in the tight areas, I use a rubber vacuum
    hose that the glass end of the bulb snuggly fits into. I take that style of
    bulb out that way also, but taking the round style bulbs out cam sometime
    be a little tricky. The hose won't really go on the round bulb, but with a bit
    of pressure applied, it can turn the bulb the 1/4 or so turn and then can patiently
    be wiggled out with a tiny screw driver. If the rubber hose doesn't turn the
    bulb, (with machine off), I have broken the bulbs glass with a needle nose pliers
    to get to the metal base to take it out. Then of course right away vacuumed
    the glass particles. I haven't had too bad of luck with that style of sockets.
    Once again with the machine off, after the bulb is out, I have gone on the
    backside of a socket and pushed in the little center metal tab to give it a better
    connection on the new bulb..

    #25 2 years ago

    Hi Mopar,

    Yes the flash unit has the cork clutch system, for bulbs I use an old used plunger tip, same with the plunger tip on big bulbs.

    The light sockets I cant get to are behind the board that the points coils and reset coils are mounted to. its where the lights are for number of players. I am putting good bulbs in so its something else wrong. 4 works only when adding it on the coin box 6 is the only one working all the time. I will put up a couple pics if it helps anyone to help me.

    IMG_0471 (resized).JPG

    #26 2 years ago

    Yeah, I know. Can't get behind all bulb sockets.
    Had you takin' of the Coin-Step-Up-Units wiper
    and cleaned its wiper board? I clean the boards rivots
    by putting a solvent (I use carb cleaner) on a small piece
    of scotch brite and rub on the board then wipe off cleanly
    before putting on the lube. Also it's a good idea to make sure
    that the wiper's blades have pretty good tension on the rivots..

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

    The light sockets I cant get to are behind the board that the points coils and reset coils are mounted to.

    I just remembered. I have also used a tiny allen (L) wrench
    to pull the sockets little center tap forward from the front side if it
    looks as though it could use it..

    #28 2 years ago

    Actually, no I did not do the Coin Step-Up actually its the only one I did not do (don't ask m e why) Funny you mention Carb Cleaner that's what I use also, Worked great on the 24 score reels, I like it more than alcohol because you get a little pressure behind the cleaner with the aerosol.

    Allen wrench sounds like a great idea! I will be trying that.

    #29 2 years ago

    On the score reel units, I do put a small spray of carb cleaner on
    a small piece of scotch brite and wipe and clean the center axle
    after pulling off the center gear like unit that rides on it, then after
    wiping cleanly, I finish it with lemon pledge on a small piece of paper
    towel. The pledge makes it 100% stick free.
    Yes, it's important to clean all steppers. Not only the number of player
    lights, put the Coin-Step-Up-Unit also tells the machine when to reset
    back to the first player on a multi player game..

    #30 2 years ago

    Good Information Thanks! On my score reel steppers, the worst part was the gold colored spring attached lever that held the nylon gear like unit in place while it was being advanced by the coil. Some were so tight that it loosened the shaft that goes through the plate.

    I thought "Shit" how the hell am I going to get them off now? I kept spraying with carb cleaner and PB Blaster and started with smallest flat screwdriver up to the largest one I have to work between the mounting plate and the bottom of the lever until I got it to move about 1/2 way up the post, finally my pliers pulled it off. cleaned inside diameter on lever and cleaned od of post. sanded post with 600 grit, and then used a little super lube, and reassembled. they are moving very easily now.

    The reason I had the glitch when it was loading all six players when only selecting one, before, was my score motor was not zero'ed out.

    What about the player up stepper? that is different than all the other steppers, I read where do not take snow show style steppers apart if it can be avoided.

    The player number lights on every player in there correct turn, and when I play all six players, number of throws is correct, and everything is scoring correctly.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

    I read where do not take snow show style steppers apart if it can be avoided.

    Yea. I have had to replaced spring loaded wipers before, but maybe
    never on an United. Gottlieb Ball Count wipers I have.
    But for sure, I put a couple drops of Remmington Gun Oil in each
    of the spring loaded wiper holes. They can stick upward when riding
    over he wiper board's rivots..
    Those brass pieces on the score reel units are very common to freeze
    up. The worse ones I spray and then turn back and forth until it'll
    pry upward with a screwdriver.
    Glad to hear all is working okay. Lubing up those stepper wiper boards
    are important, and I also like to clean the Bank Relay's reset bar and also
    the relay plates where the bar makes contact then lube the bar so it
    slides on the plates with ease when the bank coil is energized..

    #32 2 years ago

    Mopar,

    Thanks again, all you're help has be very useful, and greatly appreciated!

    I really like this machine, and I hate to admit, as much as my one pinball. Trying to find an old EM pitch and bat. I friend I had back in the 70's had one there attic we use to spend hours playing.

    I am keeping my eye out for older pins also.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from HD_Fatboy:

    I hate to admit, as much as my one pinball.

    Shuffle Bowling can be a good time. Years back when there was only
    the 1956 United Shuffle Bowler and Pool and Ping Pong table, playing partners
    on the shuffle for a buck or 2 a man was a dam good time. I actually think at
    least as much as it is now with many machines set up..
    I have a couple Pitch & Bats set up, and I think 3 stored. If you get any other
    machines in, maybe we can make a trade. If you happen to get it a Pleasure
    Isle, I'll trade you the 1963 Williams Major League which is the better one
    that I have stored..

    #34 2 years ago

    Sounds good Mopar, where you located?

    #35 2 years ago

    We're within' reach. I'm in Upstate N.Y. in Newark which is
    between Syracuse and Rochester. Not sure if you mentioned,
    but what pinball do you presently have?

    #36 2 years ago

    High Hand

    #37 2 years ago

    I have Lucky Hands, but so you have a P&B, maybe..

    #38 2 years ago

    Sorry what is P&B?

    #39 2 years ago

    Oh, my mistake. That's right, I asked what pinball you had.
    I was thinking you wondered if I would trade a P&B (Pitch and
    Bat) baseball for a High Hand..
    A friend threw a Pizza Party here today with a bunch of kids.
    I was somewhat busy first thing and wasn't 100% thinking..

    #40 2 years ago

    LOL....No Problem I get confused really easy

    4 weeks later
    #41 2 years ago

    Hi All,

    Back again, the bowler quit working. It seems to reset fine, but when you slide puck down alley nothing happens. I have seen on Youtube folks showing the exact same thing as this and search lots of sites and posts as to anyone having the same issue, and the possible places to look for something that causes this.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    #42 2 years ago

    This has been a little while, and I forget. Is this you Mike?
    Anyways, you'll want to check the contacts in the following
    Relays: The Start, Game Over, Pin Reset, Score Motor, Rollover
    Motor, and 2nd Ball Relays..
    However, if the Game Over Relay energizes when the machine
    is turned off, then back on, the problem wouldn't be in the Start
    or Game Over Relays, but may be in the others..

    #43 2 years ago

    Hi Tim, yes this is Mike. I can not find any help near where I live, so I am still trying to resolve my issues. I believe your 100% correct on the contacts I need to look at. I have been finding these relays on my schematic, and then following the path to the switches, then matching wire color to switch to see its state.

    what is happening right now, is when I plug in machine, before coin up, all 4 contacts on the game over relay are closed, when power is applied, the lock relay does not energize so this makes the game over coil drop out and the plate goes all the way to the rest bar, see picture.

    In the picture you can see the 4 contacts. when I make the top front contact open on power up than the lock relay coil energizes, but does not always make its contacts correct, it has a really weak spring and a little stronger spring makes it worse. I can make contacts by very lightly touching the coil plate. I measure coil resistance with the machine unplugged and get .88 there is the same coil in the game regulation relay which measures the same, so I was debating on swapping the two for testing. So I am not sure, if it is a coil, or maybe another switch like in your response that is not quite adjusted correctly.

    I have seen some older posts with members here that have very, very similar united shuffle bowlers, in fact posts with partial shots of there schematics seem identical to mine. I was hoping someone with a machine like mine could jump in here so we could compare some switch settings and other items in machine to get me up and running. I can manipulate the contacts and switches discussed here to get it top reset on coin up, then nothing happens on the lane switches. I seen another post where someone else had the same issue. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-help-needed-1#post-3612264

    IMG_0597 (resized).jpg

    #44 2 years ago

    You're in very good hands with Mopar-- he's more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

    With regards to game selection, I assume you saw this old thread of mine, and that's why you PM'ed me (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-couple-of-shuffle-alley-questions). In the end, I never did remove that jumper (though I did solder it in rather than using alligator clips). I never could figure out why it wouldn't "lock into" a particular game, and the fix, while a little hacky, did work.

    >the lock relay does not energize so this makes the game over coil drop out and the plate goes all the way to the rest bar, see picture.
    I can dig out my schematic later, but if you happen to have a close up of this part of the schematic we may be able to work through this quickly. I'm not quite sure I understand from your description what is going on-- is one of the latches becoming unlatched when it shouldn't? Or is it not latching when it should?

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    is one of the latches becoming unlatched when it shouldn't? Or is it not latching when it should?

    The answer here is kinda both if that makes any sense.

    #46 2 years ago

    Some Schematic.

    IMG_0554 (resized).jpg

    IMG_0553 (resized).jpg

    #47 2 years ago

    HD_Fatboy

    I have a United/Williams Cherokee Shuffle Alley. Had the same issue with the Game Over Relay dropping out. Turns out a switch on that Relay was not fully closing. You really need to check the switches. They may appear open when their not and closed when they are not. I had to look several times before I noticed an open switch. They are hard to really see.
    Good Luck
    Kickout

    #48 2 years ago

    With the pictures-- the lower picture, in the section that shows the start relay, extra shots relay and the lock relay-- we need to see the rest of that circuit-- I think you'll find the key to your problem there.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from Ohio66:

    HD_Fatboy
    I have a United/Williams Cherokee Shuffle Alley. Had the same issue with the Game Over Relay dropping out. Turns out a switch on that Relay was not fully closing. You really need to check the switches. They may appear open when their not and closed when they are not. I had to look several times before I noticed an open switch. They are hard to really see.
    Good Luck
    Kickout

    Thanks for your reply, that's why I asked if anyone had a a very similar bowler. there are 4 contacts on the Game Over, I need to know how to set the 4 contacts. This is where I am having a bit of trouble determining how to set the switches in this relay bank so they are all correct.

    Quoted from drsfmd:

    With the pictures-- the lower picture, in the section that shows the start relay, extra shots relay and the lock relay-- we need to see the rest of that circuit-- I think you'll find the key to your problem there.

    Here is another section.

    IMG_0561 (resized).JPG

    #50 2 years ago

    Mike, are you saying all this time the "Lock Relay" was not energized after start up?
    After you reset the machine, and manually push in the Lock Relay, it does not stay
    energized (in)?
    If that's the case, there's a slam switch in the rear of the machine where the score
    reels are. Probably on the side of the cabinet. Those set of switches need to be clean
    and making good connection with each other..

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 369.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 7,299.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 24.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lee's Parts
    $ 27.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 25.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Filament Printing
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 25.00
    Apparel - Unisex
    Project Pinball Charity
    $ 399.99
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Top-Notch Target Shields
    From: $ 22.95
    Apparel - Men
    Great American Pinball
    From: $ 24.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lee's Parts
    $ 27.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 89.99
    $ 159.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 65.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Texas Pinball
    $ 6,995.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball Shop
    $ 7,299.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball Shop
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: € 0.39
    Rubber/Silicone
    Scandinavian Pinball
    $ 430.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    MI Pinball Refinery
    From: $ 44.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinBoss Mods
    $ 17.50
    Playfield - Plastics
    Pinball Haus
    There are 82 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside