(Topic ID: 148304)

Any serious problems with Spike yet?

By sandersj

5 years ago


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There are 252 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
#152 5 years ago
Quoted from hd60609:

I think I'll change left flipper coil for sure. Hard to belive with such a new game. Anyone have a flipper coil fail on a new spike game? How did you isolate it to determine that coil?

I would be more suspicious of a bad connection in the flipper circuitry or a bad ground. Look for loose connectors, frayed wires, etc.

2 months later
#153 5 years ago

I discussed this in another thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-of-thrones-sword-lock-issues) but I thought I'd bring it up here and maybe get some fresh eyes on it. I've got a GoT Pro on location that has worked well up until recently. Then it just started doing odd stuff mainly acting like bad switches not sensing balls, doing unneeded ball searches, etc... Here's a partial list of oddities.

1) Sometimes, but not all the time, you can hit a ball up the left ramp to the sword lock to start Greyjoy mode and it just sits there and has to do a ball search to release the ball. Switch tests fine and has been tweaked for a more aggressive closure. Error still happens, but not repeatably, its pretty random.
2) Ball locks get awarded for no reason other than hitting a switch, come down a rollover lane, get a ball lock, drain in the left outlane, get a ball lock.
3) Ball launch delays into the shooter lane when starting Lannister mode. (maybe other modes, not sure)

Getting ball locks awarded for no reason SCREAMS "problem with an opto", particularly the left ramp exit opto. They test fine.

I've reseated all connectors except maybe the CAT5 stuff, updated to the latest software (1.29), and contacted my distributor to purchase a full set of Spike boards so I can do proper component swapping troubleshooting.

I'm tempted to just replace the left ramp exit optos but my experience with opto problems is they they either die, or fire on their own and ring up points when the ball is nowhere near. The fact that hitting a microswitch like a left outlane switch triggers an award from an opto in the upper right of the table is perplexing.

Anybody seen behavior like this? Some of the board issues described earlier in this thread seem suspicious.

#154 5 years ago

I was sketched out about doing SMT soldering when i started building NVRAM adapters but now i love it. I can do SMT parts so much faster than through hole. It isn't really any harder than through hole, just a new technique.

Desoldering SMT stuff is a different story. You need a tip to fit overtop of the ic completely or hot air. I am not setup for that yet.

#155 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I was sketched out about doing SMT soldering when i started building NVRAM adapters but now i love it. I can do SMT parts so much faster than through hole. It isn't really any harder than through hole, just a new technique.
Desoldering SMT stuff is a different story. You need a tip to fit overtop of the ic completely or hot air. I am not setup for that yet.

I feel the same way about preferring SMT. You just need the right tools.

For desoldering, a tip is to heat the bottom side of the board below the part a bit to get it started on those parts that don't seem to want to release. Otherwise, I can use a standard nosel on the the hot air rework station and move side to side or in a circular pattern and get it to release.

I have found that on the most stubborn to release parts reflowing the connections by adding flux or just adding some more solder can get things moving for you.

But again, right tools is key. Hot air rework station, magnification/microscope, fine tweezers, the finest tip for your iron, solder wick, a flux pen and solder paste. Oh and practice, practice, practice!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#156 5 years ago
Quoted from sandersj:

I discussed this in another thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-of-thrones-sword-lock-issues) but I thought I'd bring it up here and maybe get some fresh eyes on it. I've got a GoT Pro on location that has worked well up until recently. Then it just started doing odd stuff mainly acting like bad switches not sensing balls, doing unneeded ball searches, etc... Here's a partial list of oddities.
1) Sometimes, but not all the time, you can hit a ball up the left ramp to the sword lock to start Greyjoy mode and it just sits there and has to do a ball search to release the ball. Switch tests fine and has been tweaked for a more aggressive closure. Error still happens, but not repeatably, its pretty random.
2) Ball locks get awarded for no reason other than hitting a switch, come down a rollover lane, get a ball lock, drain in the left outlane, get a ball lock.
3) Ball launch delays into the shooter lane when starting Lannister mode. (maybe other modes, not sure)
Getting ball locks awarded for no reason SCREAMS "problem with an opto", particularly the left ramp exit opto. They test fine.
I've reseated all connectors except maybe the CAT5 stuff, updated to the latest software (1.29), and contacted my distributor to purchase a full set of Spike boards so I can do proper component swapping troubleshooting.
I'm tempted to just replace the left ramp exit optos but my experience with opto problems is they they either die, or fire on their own and ring up points when the ball is nowhere near. The fact that hitting a microswitch like a left outlane switch triggers an award from an opto in the upper right of the table is perplexing.
Anybody seen behavior like this? Some of the board issues described earlier in this thread seem suspicious.

Sound like an switch matrix issue but they don't have that any more. Some kind of board issue with data corruption? Did you check all the lock switches if one is not working right it may be getting confused?

I have seen odd software like delays on GOT's where at times lot's of displays can get stacked up and you to wait for them to show before the game moves on. Some times on drain it can take some time to show them all before it starts to count the bonus.

Outlane ball save some times kicks out the ball right away and you can try to death save to get a 2 balls into play or even without trying if the bounce is just right. Other times there is a longer wait for it to kick out don't know what will have if the ball somehow goes back into play will it kick out an new ball?

#157 5 years ago

"Did you check all the lock switches if one is not working right it may be getting confused?"

Yup, best guess from a distributor was "sounds like a node board has gone loco". A set of node boards is on the way for additional troubleshooting. Note, I paid for them as I want to have a full set available at all times for troubleshooting games. We'll see how this turns out.

1 week later
#158 5 years ago

Back to my wonky GoT pro........ I got the set of new spike boards and started swapping them out. First Node 10, but it still had the same problems. Then node 9, still problems. Then Node 8, no joy. I'll replace the board down by the coin door tonight just to be thorough but don't expect any solution. What....the....hell..... I've reset all connectors, reset the SD card, updated SW to 1.29, and I'm still get switch weirdness. I didn't get any phantom ball locks in playtesting last night but if swapping that node last board out doesn't help any thoughts?

#159 5 years ago

Now my Kiss Pro is getting weird. In certain modes/situations the pop bumpers go dead. Drain a ball, they turn back on. Reported many times by a regular, I've seen it happen once though.

#160 5 years ago

So to follow up on the Kiss Pro I noticed after the pop bumpers went dead once that the game went into firmware update mode after a power cycle. Could the node that controls the pop bumpers be losing its NVRAM memory? or however it stores onboard code? I swapped out the node that runs the pop bumpers and it was working when I left the location.

#161 5 years ago

Still trying things with GoT pro, still wacko. Replaced the SD card after copying it yesterday and reloaded 1.29 SW. I didn't really expect that to help but I'm just checking off boxes. Next up, replace the CPU board. I'm still not hopeful of that helping as the game "works great" just does untraceable weird $shit on a regular basis.

One thing I'd like to try is to get a new, guaranteed non-corrupted SD card. Would I have to go to Stern for that? or could somebody image their SD card and let me download a copy?

1 week later
#162 5 years ago

I got a new SD card from Chas, plugged it in, and played three flawless games. Maybe that fixed it.

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from sandersj:

I got a new SD card from Chas, plugged it in, and played three flawless games. Maybe that fixed it.

What version of software was on it? Was it different than any that you already tried?

#164 5 years ago

1.29, and I reloaded it with no improvement. So it wasn;t the code, but most likely a corrupted card. I'm not the only one to have this happen to them.

#165 5 years ago
Quoted from sandersj:

Now my Kiss Pro is getting weird. In certain modes/situations the pop bumpers go dead. Drain a ball, they turn back on. Reported many times by a regular, I've seen it happen once though.

I played a kiss pro on location and the pops died on it mid game for a bit as well. Eventually they came back on (no boot).

#166 5 years ago

I had that happen to my Kiss, new node board fixed it.

#167 5 years ago

have a GoT Premium on location, have had the upper playfield just die and it complains to check node board... starting to get worried since if the micro controller on the node boards dies replacing it won't help without the firmware on the chip which I doubt Stern would give out

#168 5 years ago
Quoted from flecom:

have a GoT Premium on location, have had the upper playfield just die and it complains to check node board... starting to get worried since if the micro controller on the node boards dies replacing it won't help without the firmware on the chip which I doubt Stern would give out

I think it should be some where in the rom image download file or some where on the sd card.

#169 5 years ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

I think it should be some where in the rom image download file or some where on the sd card.

not likely, the node boards each have a microcontroller that would have to be purchased preprogrammed (not likely at stern numbers) or programmed via JTAG or something after the boards are assembled

it would be unlikely they would integrate a system to program unprogrammed node boards from the main CPU board, that would be very impressive but I would bet against that

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from flecom:

not likely, the node boards each have a microcontroller that would have to be purchased preprogrammed (not likely at stern numbers) or programmed via JTAG or something after the boards are assembled
it would be unlikely they would integrate a system to program unprogrammed node boards from the main CPU board, that would be very impressive but I would bet against that

what about the node board updates?

As for the jtag part that may be able to be dumped out over jtag or the update code has that part in it.

#171 5 years ago
Quoted from flecom:

not likely, the node boards each have a microcontroller that would have to be purchased preprogrammed (not likely at stern numbers) or programmed via JTAG or something after the boards are assembled
it would be unlikely they would integrate a system to program unprogrammed node boards from the main CPU board, that would be very impressive but I would bet against that

Each node board has a set of switches to identify which board it is in the chain. The controlling is then done by the CPU. When updating software or replacing a node board, they're initialized as well. I'm not sure exactly what that does to the board, but probably does some sort of programming to the individual nodes. We've had a few node boards fail on location (GoT Premium and KISS) in the last year. Talk to your distributor and work with Stern - they'll take care of you.

#172 5 years ago
Quoted from u2sean:

Each node board has a set of switches to identify which board it is in the chain. The controlling is then done by the CPU. When updating software or replacing a node board, they're initialized as well. I'm not sure exactly what that does to the board, but probably does some sort of programming to the individual nodes. We've had a few node boards fail on location (GoT Premium and KISS) in the last year. Talk to your distributor and work with Stern - they'll take care of you.

it's possible it pushes something to the node boards but I doubt it's the entire software package on the micro... similar to an arduino, it's a regular ATMega microcontroller but you need to load the arduino bootloader on it first before you can program it with the arduino software

only way to know is to get a dead node board, replace the micro and see what happens

3 weeks later
#173 5 years ago

I am having issues with my NIB GOt pro the pops are out the upper light are out and when you hit the left orbit the game resets.

#174 5 years ago

on my GOT I seem to have a lot of problems with the standup targets, in testmode they work fine, but with fast shots they don't seem to register (especially annoying during lannister mode) on Star trek I do not have this problem at all, maybe the spike system is too slow to recognize a fast ball at the switch?
I haven't really notized this on the GB, but that's more because of all the airballs, I'm looking if the balls don't damage anything more than I look at if the switch got registered....

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from xyntec:

on my GOT I seem to have a lot of problems with the standup targets, in testmode they work fine, but with fast shots they don't seem to register (especially annoying during lannister mode) on Star trek I do not have this problem at all, maybe the spike system is too slow to recognize a fast ball at the switch?
I haven't really notized this on the GB, but that's more because of all the airballs, I'm looking if the balls don't damage anything more than I look at if the switch got registered....

SPIKE system CPU is substantially faster than the one in SAM.

#176 5 years ago
Quoted from Air_Pinball:

SPIKE system CPU is substantially faster than the one in SAM.

It should be but at times the games have can lot's of DMD displays stacked up that takes times to due stuff like end the ball / do an ball save.

#177 5 years ago
Quoted from xyntec:

on my GOT I seem to have a lot of problems with the standup targets, in testmode they work fine, but with fast shots they don't seem to register (especially annoying during lannister mode) on Star trek I do not have this problem at all, maybe the spike system is too slow to recognize a fast ball at the switch?
I haven't really notized this on the GB, but that's more because of all the airballs, I'm looking if the balls don't damage anything more than I look at if the switch got registered....

I have noticed this too on GoT and GB. I tried taking a cue from old Bally games and added a capacitor to the switch, but unfortunately it made no difference. I suspect it is because Spike no longer uses a switch matrix. Switches now go through node boards before hitting the CPU. I think it's a lag in communication between Node and CPU. Hopefully Lyman is aware and working on it.

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from moondrummer78:

I have noticed this too on GoT and GB. I tried taking a cue from old Bally games and added a capacitor to the switch, but unfortunately it made no difference. I suspect it is because Spike no longer uses a switch matrix. Switches now go through node boards before hitting the CPU. I think it's a lag in communication between Node and CPU. Hopefully Lyman is aware and working on it.

I asked Stern about it and only got answer that "the switches probably needed adjustment...." but like said, they work fine in testmode, just not in regular gameplay, I also suspect a communication problem.

#179 5 years ago
Quoted from xyntec:

I asked Stern about it and only got answer that "the switches probably needed adjustment...." but like said, they work fine in testmode, just not in regular gameplay, I also suspect a communication problem.

Play Better

#180 5 years ago

Seems like an software issue.

#181 5 years ago
Quoted from xyntec:

I asked Stern about it and only got answer that "the switches probably needed adjustment...." but like said, they work fine in testmode, just not in regular gameplay, I also suspect a communication problem.

Did you gap the switches closer? I would try that and see if it helps.

#182 5 years ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

Seems like an software issue.

#183 5 years ago

my GoT premium now is having an issue where if you hit both flippers they both cut out and all the lower GI lamps go out... hopefully stern will replace the node board :\

1 month later
#184 5 years ago

GB LE New in box, arrived DOA. Troubleshooting with Stern Tech support determined a bad CPU board. Next day aired parts from Marco online, replaced board and problem solved.

4 months later
#185 4 years ago

Just curious if the Spike system uses the round watch battery for high score memory like the SAM systems did?

1 week later
#186 4 years ago
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:

Just curious if the Spike system uses the round watch battery for high score memory like the SAM systems did?

It's has a pc battery for the clock. high scores and settings are saved to the sd card.

1 week later
#187 4 years ago
Quoted from jay:

I have a GOT LE that is not booting up. It has backbox LEDs out for 9V and 24V. Anyone seen this exactly? Emailed Stern but no idea how responsive their customer service is.

Yes mine is acting the same way, have you fixed yours?

#188 4 years ago

Node board 8 for GB Pro seems to have taken a dump. I went into diagnostics and the board shows up grayed out. Installed new ethernet cable...no change. Game is a year old but HFS is that board expensive!!! Marco (out of stock) shows it at $289!

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-6985-72

IMG_20170327_182830 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170327_191826 (resized).jpg

#189 4 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Node board 8 for GB Pro seems to have taken a dump. I went into diagnostics and the board shows up grayed out. Installed new ethernet cable...no change. Game is a year old but HFS is that board expensive!!! Marco (out of stock) shows it at $289!
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-6985-72

Look for the colored led's. it looks like your 5 volt supply on the node is out.

#190 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

Look for the colored led's. it looks like your 5 volt supply on the node is out.

Yep. All other node boards have 5V except this one, even when swapped around.

#191 4 years ago

Not under warranty?

#192 4 years ago

Even if not, doesn't Stern sell these direct or no?

#193 4 years ago

I was told by Stern they usually replace for free for only up to 6 months. This game is 1 year old and that I was to contact my distributor about sending back for repair. Cost would be about $150 for a repair. I contacted my distributor and apparently have one coming to put the new one in and send the old one back. I suppose if I don't send the old one back I'll be billed. I'll wait and see.

Bad thing about these node boards is that some are game specific and some are even specific to the trim, pro vs, limited/LE. This node board is only for GB. I really wonder the viability 10 years from now when these are still going bad if we can get the exact one we need.

#194 4 years ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

It's has a pc battery for the clock. high scores and settings are saved to the sd card.

So is there a battery to change or maintain?

#195 4 years ago

Just had to replace a node board on a new Aerosmith. Once I figured out the dip switches, everything was pretty easy.

Are you sure there are really different boards for different machines and trim? Is it really that or maybe they have had several revisions to work the kinks out early in the life cycle and now they are on Spike v2.

Since they are programmable it doesn't make sense that a manufacturer would create different versions like that.

But hey it's pinball so nothing really makes any sense.

#196 4 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Are you sure there are really different boards for different machines and trim? Is it really that or maybe they have had several revisions to work the kinks out early in the life cycle and now they are on Spike v2.

These are some of the cabinet and 48V driver boards. I don't see Kiss Premium or LE but maybe they're compatible with Pro just not listed. Seems like so many different part numbers. I know the ones in Kiss are way different than in GB. Maybe the difference between Spike 1 and 2. But still quite an array of part numbers.

#509-1000-01 BATMAN 66 LIMITED EDITION (Stern), BATMAN 66 PREMIUM (Stern)

#520-5319-00 GAME OF THRONES LIMITED EDITION, GAME OF THRONES PREMIUM, GAME OF THRONES PRO, KISS PRO (Stern), WWE WRESTLEMANIA LE, WWE WRESTLEMANIA PRO

#520-5322-10 GAME OF THRONES LIMITED EDITION, GAME OF THRONES PREMIUM, GAME OF THRONES PRO, KISS PRO (Stern), WALKING DEAD LE

#520-5329-10 GAME OF THRONES LIMITED EDITION, GAME OF THRONES PREMIUM, GAME OF THRONES PRO, GHOSTBUSTERS PREMIUM, KISS PRO (Stern)

#520-6935-10 GAME OF THRONES LIMITED EDITION, GAME OF THRONES PREMIUM, GAME OF THRONES PRO, KISS PRO (Stern)

#520-6936-01 GAME OF THRONES LIMITED EDITION, GAME OF THRONES PREMIUM, GAME OF THRONES PRO, GHOSTBUSTERS PREMIUM, GHOSTBUSTERS PRO, KISS PRO (Stern), WHOA NELLIE, WWE WRESTLEMANIA LE, WWE WRESTLEMANIA PRO

#520-6967-00 GAME OF THRONES LIMITED EDITION, GAME OF THRONES PREMIUM, GAME OF THRONES PRO, GHOSTBUSTERS PREMIUM, GHOSTBUSTERS PRO, WHOA NELLIE

#520-6967-72 BATMAN 66 LIMITED EDITION (Stern), BATMAN 66 PREMIUM (Stern)

#520-6985-72 GHOSTBUSTERS LE, GHOSTBUSTERS PREMIUM, GHOSTBUSTERS PRO

#520-7017-72 GHOSTBUSTERS LE, GHOSTBUSTERS PREMIUM, GHOSTBUSTERS PRO

#520-5329-00 WWE WRESTLEMANIA LE, WWE WRESTLEMANIA PRO

#197 4 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

This node board is only for GB. I really wonder the viability 10 years from now when these are still going bad if we can get the exact one we need.

This does make me nervous about the long-term viability of owning modern Stern's. I guess repair services will be available though. (Or at least i hope so!)

#198 4 years ago

Yesterday I had the game reset on its own and update the node boards. Once updated, it said it was successful, and right after that the auto plunger was very weak. This in on a WWE pro. Auto use to get the ball up and into the upper playfield, now it barely gets it by the shooter lane gate. Is this a sign that the node board is on its way out? Again, it is node 8.

#199 4 years ago
Quoted from blowback1976:

Yesterday I had the game reset on its own and update the node boards. Once updated, it said it was successful, and right after that the auto plunger was very weak. This in on a WWE pro. Auto use to get the ball up and into the upper playfield, now it barely gets it by the shooter lane gate. Is this a sign that the node board is on its way out? Again, it is node 8.

Did you open the coindoor while game was booting up?

#200 4 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

Did you open the coindoor while game was booting up?

No. But I did open the door to test the auto launch in test mode, and it fires fine in test, but in gameplay it's very weak.

There are 252 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.

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