Seawitch
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Quoted from seshpilot:Okay, well I may have found at least part of the problem: my lower 2 flipper coils were rated at 500 (should be 475s) and the tops were 500s (should be 600s). I'm going to swap out coils and see if that helps. Was just feeling like the geometry was off or something...
I sort of assumed that anybody into Seawitch has seen this video. In case you have not seen it, this was the video that clinched it for me. This vid is why I went chasing my Seawitch.
Pic of plastic protector for Seawitch trapped ball.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Stern_Seawitch
Quoted from Drano:My Seawitch does this a lot too.
I only recently got it and it hasn't been properly shopped/cleaned and adjusted.... but I think there is an inherent flaw in the design.
The flap rests on the wooden siderail and that little bit of metal thickness is what's causing the issue. I'm about to start restoring the machine and what I might do once the siderails are off is to run them through a saw and shave off a little material to that the flap sits perfectly recessed.
No. Don't do that. If yours is like mine, you have just a little bit too much tension in the metal flap; And it also causes another problem. Try this before you start cutting away material.
The flap is attached using two small screws. Remove the screw closest to the player. Then rotate the flap counter-clockwise one degree, or perhaps, two degrees. This will leave the flap sort of hanging in mid-air, so to speak. Using your hand, apply some rotational pressure to the base of the flap and roll it back towards the siderail.
This does two things:
1) It will stiffen the flap up so when you hit a Riptide going clockwise from left to right the ball will not cause the flap to flex and deflect ball in a different direction. It stiffen the flap up in one direction
2) By rotating the base of the flap counter-clockwise and rolling the flap back toward the side rail, it helps decrease tension in the flap and the ball will leave the shooter lane more smoothly.
3) You will be able to play and adjust the flap by installing with just one screw, but continued impact with the ball will cause you to lose position. So, for a more permanent fix you will need to elongate the screw hole so you can adjust as you need and be able to lock it down with two screws.
I can take some pics if it would help visualize what I am talking about.
Quoted from Redketchup:Anyone try the replacement metal flap from cliffy, it's supposed to be little bit stronger and it bounce less...
I have the Cliffy and it needed adjusting. I guess I'm going to have to put up some pics.
Quoted from fnord:Having a strange issue. Everything had been working fine for a couple months but my drop targets are now not resetting. I have an alltek solenoid driver and can see it trying to pulse the solenoids as the alltek lights the corresponding led but nothing happens.
They're completely non functional now but the day it started I was able to get them functioning by turning it off and on again a few times. Now they've completely quit.
Any advice would be appreciated.
What he said---check your voltages.
Your 3 pop (thumper) bumpers, both sling shots, out-hole, and all 3 drop targets get get power from the yellow wire(s) coming off of the slo-blo fuse on the underneath side of play field that sits between the flippers.
Your post indicates that your pop bumpers and slingshots and out-hole are still working. This would suggest there are problems with the yellow wire that is feeding the drop targets. Again, like he said, check your voltages.
A down and dirty way to check would be to clip a jumper wire from the yellow wire on a pop bumper or sling shot solenoid coil and jump to one of your drop target yellow wires. If jumping gets drop target to work, then you have some problems with the yellow wire---like a broken solder connection.
Quoted from frunch:Nice! Glad to see this thread has helped a number of folks. Nothing like finally conquering a stubborn problem!
Yes. Thanks for letting us know how it resolved.
Quoted from MiamiRedSkin:Thank you. Here are two pictures I have
I can't see any play field wear in your pic, but it is very dirty and looks like there are lots of swirl marks you will have to clean up.
Quoted from dasvis:I'm in the club!
Just picked up a decent one for $100 yesterday. Not working, cosmetics are decent, wiring has some hacks.
Nice buy !! Nice play field !! And yes, I am jealous 
. Yours has that brick-like looking material for the bottom. I find that interesting. Mine has a real wood bottom, not any kind of fiber board.
But my Nine Ball had the same brick-like bottom your Witch has. My NB bottom was sagging so bad that I had to replace it. Your bottom looks like it is in nice shape.
Quoted from dasvis:I hate to brag, but yes, my bottom is in great shape....
I knew somebody was going to say that
Since the Seawitch thread is getting some love, I have a question.
As far as I know, the Seawitch skill shot is to drop the ball into the open area at the top of the play field. If this the skill shot, I don't get it, since making this center-top shot does not give you any extra points and offer any kind of favor for making the shot, that I am aware of.
So I find myself asking, "What is the point with this shot?"
Anybody? Thoughts?
Quoted from Thrillhouse:I dont think there is a skill shot. Seawitch is definitely a less is more kind of game. The rollover at the top of the orbit wont start awarding points until you start hitting drop targets. If you can drop it in the gap it will probably give you a better chance of hitting standups to build the spinner value and hopefully start hitting some of those hard to get drops on the right bank. Ripping the spinner with double riptide lit is soooo sweet.
I see what you are saying. But I don't have any problems getting the ball into the pop bump area with either left hand flipper. And the lower left hand flipper is a straight shot to those upper drop targets.
Double Riptides are hard to get and fun when it happens.
McMurdo Station ?? Is it a little chilly down there? I'd be turning blue 
Quoted from Xerico:If you want to build one from scratch, this is the hardest piece to find. It's easy to say "Buy a complete one for $1,500", but it is hard to find one in today's market.
With the populated playfield acquired, it's only a matter of time before the other pieces fall into place. Sure, it's a long route, but you can at least get a working Seawitch at the end of the journey.
Marcus
OK. I guess I am going to have to start thinking outside the box. Anybody have a populated Quicksilver populated play field for sale? 
Quoted from Willathrilla:It sold between $674 and $695. Search "pinball" in eBay completed items. Sort by highest first and it places the best offers at the price they sold.
I did not know Ebay would sort OBOs like that. Thanks for sharing.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:If you did purchase a populated playfield like that, is there a company out there who builds & ships these old Stern cabinets brand new? I'd be curious in that option, depending on the price.
A few months ago I talked to Noah Fence (Paul) at Virtualpin.net about this. He does Williams cabs. He said he would need my old Stern cab to disassemble for patterns and measurements and he would pay to ship it to his shop. Once he had it patterned then he could sell me a new "Stern" cab and the price would be $750.00. And then you still have to hunt all the cabinet parts and circuit boards.
There are other cab builders, I think. But I know little.
Quoted from hisokajp:anyone here would have a lead or an idea on how to replace a broken slingshot arm kicker? :s
Your best bet is to locate a used replacement from EBay or someone selling used Stern parts.
Quoted from bluespin:I just picked up this beauty and I am bringing it home now. I can't wait to restore it, including a greatwichjohn playfield and backglass.
OK. Good. You got it. Your coin door looks pretty clean. Show some pics of the playfield. And I hope Atlanta I-285 traffic is not too bad for you on Monday morning.
Quoted from dasvis:Well, finally finished rebuilding the C-464 rectifier board on my Seawitch & mounted it on the board. Printed out a repro fuse label too.
Also printed out a repro transformer label & sanded down the nasty mounting board & shot it with some varathane. Looks a lot nicer.
Where do you find these repro labels, please?
Quoted from dasvis:I need the same plastic too, mine is there, but broken & nasty looking!
That one must really take a beating, being centrally located.
Is this what you need? If you need full size I can email it. I don't know why yours is broken. I play the shit out of my Seawitch and this piece is never in danger. But I don't get any air balls with this pin, either.
Quoted from dasvis:What is the measurement center to center on the mounting studs? Someone relocated the posts & I can't tell which is correct.
Center to center on the two outboard studs is 4.0". The two inboard posts are just screw heads.
Quoted from hisokajp:not great but it will do better than nothing until I decide to pay for a replacement plastic set
Thanks for the scan!
It looks OK to me. Would you please tell us your steps for taking a .jpg scan of this plastic and tuning it into something that can be used of a pin?
Quoted from Venom_249:Could anybody tell me what the placement of the wires is on the lower left drop target bank?
I've got:
yellow-red
Orange
White-brown
Brown-yellow
Game was missing the drop bank when I got it so I don't know which is top middle bottom or the common amongst them. Also is there anywhere to find a switch matrix diagram for these older bally/sterns?
Yellow-red is common
White-brown is #1
Brown-yellow is #2
Orange is # 3
Quoted from pinballprincess:Watching the Stern Circuit Finals and I'm over the moon to see a Seawitch in the lineup!!! You don't get to see it in major competition all that often; this is great!
Thanks for the picture. It helped me find the link.
Seawitch starts at 8:52.
Quoted from pinballprincess:Thanks for getting the timestamp!
Seawitch actually shows up in a few games throughout the event; it shows up in a tiebreaker and one if the final three games, as well as in a few regular groups. I don't know if I have time to go through and pick out all the timestamps, but that would certainly be cool! Need to properly watch the vid anyway.
This is a Stern vid. Showing Freefall, Meteor, Catacomb, Seawitch and Galaxy.
There is also Batman 66 and Robocop.
Seawitch first comes at time stamp 4:15.
You are correct about watching. To properly see it you just have to kick back and plan on watching for awhile.
Like many, I am waiting for on of John's play fields. My play field has its share of battle scars, especially where it is worn to the wood on the yellow light run.
I made my first order for LEDs for another pin and liked the ice blue lights some of you have put on so I thought I would give them a try. The picture does not do these LEDs justice. They make it look like a different pinball machine. Sort of like putting lipstick on a pig.
Shoot, I guess I could put up a For Sale ad: Seawitch. Plays great. Has LEDs. You should see what these are selling for on Ebay. You can have this one for $4,000.00 ! Did I say it has LEDs. It has LEDs 
Quoted from jim5six:Finally joined the club. I have wanted one of these babies for some time. I am excited to get everything sorted out. I also got his spot in line for the repop playfield so that's good since this one is hammered! Am I right in not finding a playfield protector for Seawitch?!? Seems there should be one but I cant find it on the list? I look forward to reading through this thread and gleaning some good knowledge as this is my first old Stern game.
Thanks,
-Jim
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You will need to make your own protector. .020 polycarbonate works well.
Quoted from Spraynard:Sounds like a PITA. Would much rather buy a pre -measured and precision cut product.
It is not hard to make. It takes a little time and some tools.
Quoted from Spraynard:Finally starting my shop out of a seawitch I bought last year. I just realized that mine has white pop bumper caps. Anyone know what the story is behind this? I’ve only seen blue before.
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Well, it's your pin to view in the flesh, but when I enlarge the pic it looks to me like someone went the DYI homemade route. The hot stamp lines are sloppy and uneven. The sculls look like they were drawn with a sharpie.
Quoted from Spraynard:Marco has pop bumper caps. I don’t think the proper ones have stamping around the edges.
Make sure you drop targets are flush with playfield. This drastically cut down on air balls for me.
This is a proper Witch pop cap.
Quoted from j_m_:1- shooter lane much improved with a "ski jump" instead of the metal flapper, makes RH loop shots easier.
this is the one thing that I would like to see if it's possible to retrofit in my seawitch. it looks like it's 2 or 3 pieces of metal; the ski jump itself, a different outer ball guide which has the cut out that is just over the 1/2 of ball's height under the [jump] and a 2nd (upper section) of ball guide to prevent launched balls from leaving the playfield
I'm working on it. I have the part numbers and have made contact with a Stern distributor.
I am going to try and get just the ramp first. I want to make sure the ball is not going to have too much problem snapping into the glass all of the time. I don't care if it smacks the glass on launch as long as the ball trajectory and speed are not affected.
Quoted from dasvis:1- shooter lane much improved with a "ski jump" instead of the metal flapper, makes RH loop shots easier.
2 - Left & right loop shots are opened up a lot so you can really rip the loops.
3- Spinning wheel in center........... the ease of shooting the loops.
Thanks for clearing this up. I thought it looked like the loop lanes were more open than Seawitch.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Just joined the club today
What are the "must dos" to the machine to really dial it in?
I see on the TNT video Todd replaced all drops with Steve Young repros. Do the repros drop ok? I'm hesitant to go that route but let me know your thoughts.
It will be a while before I get it running. Lots of hacks to undo.
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Steve Young repro drops work fine.
You look like you scored a nice play field that will clean up nice.
You will need to add a small piece of acrylic or polyurethane plastic behind the upper left flipper. The ball in this pin likes to jump that flipper and crawl onto the plastic by the girl's face. This will require you to turn off the pin and pull the glass down to retrieve the ball. In mine, it broke the plastic.
EDIT: Interesting. Your Seawitch has a 2-quarter coin door drop instead of a 3-quarter coin door drop. I wonder if someone changed that out.
Quoted from hisokajp:I would definitely look at those:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Stern_Seawitch
I tried changing the upper right flipper bat to a WMS one to make loop better, slight improvement but it is no Beatles
I forgot about using a Williams flipper. That is a must.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Lots of great suggestions! Thanks all. Looking forward to the restore!!!!!
There is wall to wall mylar. Don't think it was factory but it definitely preserved the playfield especially considering the ball that was in the game! Ouch!!!!
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Rusty ball from no action. That pin has not been played for a long time.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Does anyone know the names of the blue colors on seawitch cabinet? Or do I have to just do a custom color match?
Go to your local paint retailer and start grabbing paint color chips and match your blues that way. Rustoleum spray cans has both the dark blue and light blue that is a pretty good colors match.
Quoted from SDTMinSTL:It is discussed here with a couple of options. http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Stern_Seawitch
Plexi (Lexan) shaped with a torch, a few brackets, 6x32 machine screws and some nylon lock nuts and I am thrilled. [quoted image]
It looks nice. Balanced.
Quoted from Arcade:Just got a Seawitch that I am working on.
I have an issue with gameplay when the ball is hit around the left orbit.
When the ball gets to the thin metal flap, it will bow it inward and it flexes back out, effectively forcing the ball away from the upper right flipper.
This makes it impossible to do multiple orbit shots.
I saw someone mention above that Cliffy may have a replacement flap. Might it be a bit stiffer to allow a smoother ball trajectory?
Or is there some other fix for this problem?
Cliffy makes a replacement flap but it will not fix your problem.
It has been discussed.
Think link. go to post #227
THis link: go to post #310
Quoted from greatwichjohn:** Sunday Night Special - 1 Only! I have 1 new Seawitch glass left from late 2018. The last glass in inventory (all titles). New stock production starts this week. New USA customer $250 US shipped. Previous customer $225 US shipped. **
This one only Special is still available. Bring new life back to the girl!
I sent you a PM, John.
I'll take that Seawitch back glass if it is still avaialbe.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I responded to Craig above. When I went to package this glass, I found 3 minor scratches to glass surface. Top 2 are minor, & the middle one is deeper. This was with 2 other Seawitch with no scratches. So I will reduce it another $25 US to $200 US shipped. I had to look closely, as I do with final packing. Here are pictures. The ink on the back is prefect!
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I'm not worried about those little bitty scratches. I have some glass polish that will remove scratches. I appreciate your honesty. You have been Paypal-ed. Ship when ready.
Thanks.
Quoted from Shenanigander:If I powdercoat legs on my Seawitch what color would look best? White, Blue, Yellow? Neither?
Something in the "silver vein" category.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Seen that live. It was amazing. If he did not make that save he would have been eliminated that round. That Save allowed him to advance to the next round.
That was pretty cool. But I thought the tournaments aways removed those rubber posts in front of the ball guides so it would be more challenging.
Quoted from Chalkey:http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/as-2518-18-wiring.htm
Bookmark it, awesome resource. I have done a ton of these, they're always a pain in the ass since the wires are directly soldered and never very long. IIRC seawitch is in the bottom of the cab so it's usually a little bit easier to access and work around, you'll just have to take a few breaks to stretch your back out. Dont bother unsoldering old wires, cut them close, strip and resolder. Start on one side and work your way over to get the most out of your wire length. Sometimes clipping the zip ties can help get a little more slack
The old Sterns transformers and rectifier boards are attached the cabinet support planks with 6 screws. Unscrew the 6 and put the transformer/rectifier assembly on the bench or table where you can sit down or stand up or what ever you need to do to work comfortably.
Quoted from Arcade:I have not repinned the connectors on the power distribution board yet.
That is next in my list.
About 3 of the molex holes are pretty dark.
And here is a nice before and after photo of the power board swap out today.
I took the board out and sanded it down so it looks like new now.
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Once you repin, your reset problems should go away. IIRC, it is one of the wires on the J-3 connector. J-1 is upper left. J-2 is upper right.
Quoted from j_m_:1- shooter lane much improved with a "ski jump" instead of the metal flapper, makes RH loop shots easier.
this is the one thing that I would like to see if it's possible to retrofit in my seawitch. it looks like it's 2 or 3 pieces of metal; the ski jump itself, a different outer ball guide which has the cut out that is just over the 1/2 of ball's height under the [jump] and a 2nd (upper section) of ball guide to prevent launched balls from leaving the playfield
Quoted from dasvis:Well, if you try it, please post pics of the process & part #'s needed. I'm all for keeping stuff original, but this would really be a great improvement. Especially if it were reversible.
Quoted from cottonm4:I'm working on it. I have the part numbers and have made contact with a Stern distributor.
I am going to try and get just the ramp first. I want to make sure the ball is not going to have too much problem snapping into the glass all of the time. I don't care if it smacks the glass on launch as long as the ball trajectory and speed are not affected.
My Beatles launch ramp arrived this afternoon. Like any kid with a new toy I have been trying it out for fitment and action.
1) It is a little tricky to get lined up perfectly to make a good launch. I have pretty much got it lined up and the shooting is OK.
2) Permanent attachment is with two factory screw holes. I may have to drill one more hole for a full 3-point lockdown.
3) I have made a temporary ball guide from some polycarbonate to play around with and try for a good ball trajectory.
Observations:
If I pull the shooter rod all the back the ball snaps the glass. However, a more gentler skill shot pull makes for a nice smooth launch with no glass contact.
For shooter lane action I give a big thumbs up. But I'm still working on it.
For action of coming around in a clockwise loop, I also give a thumbs up. But a good ball guide is going to take some work.
What I have going right now with a 2-3 hours install and experiment time is looking good. Even where I am at so far I do not have to deal with a flap gate which is great.
Quoted from Madmax541:Did ball guide come from stern?
How much?
Yes, it came from Stern. It cost a lot. I had to pay $39.00 which included the shipping. I'm still working getting positioned correctly but so far I am happy with how the launching is acting.
Quoted from Madmax541:Could you provide part numbers for everyone that is considering order it?
The ramp part number is: 535-1488-04 Stern calls in guide #4.
I did not order these, but if you want the skill shot parts:
The gate bracket is: 535-1488-00
The wire is:.............535-1536-00
I do not have the part number for the loop ball guide, yet. I'm not sure I need it. I 'll have to hit my contact up again and see if I can get that number.
You can buy these from any Stern distributor. My local Stern distro had too high on a minimum order price. I got mine at FUN in Dallas. A guy named Craig took my order and knows what is going on.
Quoted from Arcade:Getting ready to re-pin the three connectors on the power board.
Big Daddy sent me two different bags of pins with the molex connectors.
What is the difference? And which ones should I use?
There is a BT and an AT bag.[quoted image]
Are they for different gauge wire?
Quoted from cottonm4:My Beatles launch ramp arrived this afternoon. Like any kid with a new toy I have been trying it out for fitment and action.
1) It is a little tricky to get lined up perfectly to make a good launch. I have pretty much got it lined up and the shooting is OK.
2) Permanent attachment is with two factory screw holes. I may have to drill one more hole for a full 3-point lockdown.
3) I have made a temporary ball guide from some polycarbonate to play around with and try for a good ball trajectory.
Observations:
If I pull the shooter rod all the back the ball snaps the glass. However, a more gentler skill shot pull makes for a nice smooth launch with no glass contact.
For shooter lane action I give a big thumbs up. But I'm still working on it.
For action of coming around in a clockwise loop, I also give a thumbs up. But a good ball guide is going to take some work.
What I have going right now with a 2-3 hours install and experiment time is looking good. Even where I am at so far I do not have to deal with a flap gate which is great.
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It's going to work. I got my metal ball guide built this afternoon. I have some fine tuning and clean up to do, but the guide will let you bang the upper right flipper for a clockwise orbit shot.
It is going to work !!
Quoted from Chalkey:I'm really surprised people think that's a good idea. I would be really bummed if I was going to buy a seawitch with a nice playfield and someone had drilled holes in it for this reason.
Only two holes drilled in the shooter lane for the ramp.
The ball guide has two brackets that install to two post holes drilled from factory.
Quoted from Arcade:Awesome news. Can’t wait to see the finished product in action.
Will this be doable by everyone if correct ball guide is provided by someone?
If I can get my hardware store to order some more aluminum strip I can make more ball guides.
Given the vagaries in different play fields you might have to redrill the two post holes for fitment. Although I may be able to oversize the holes in the two brackets to allow for adjustment.
I’ll know more when I get it completed.
Quoted from Mitch:If this works well you should contact cliffy or mantis and see it they will make a kit with the guide and the ramp.
I’m still working on getting the part number for the loop guide from Stern.
Im hoping to get see a Beatles at TPF this year. I’m thinking the proper Stern loop guide would make easier to locate the ramp.
There needs to be a fool proof way to correctly locate the ramp before a kit could hit the big time.
Quoted from cottonm4:If I can get my hardware store to order some more aluminum strip I can make more ball guides.
Given the vagaries in different play fields you might have to redrill the two post holes for fitment. Although I may be able to oversize the holes in the two brackets to allow for adjustment.
I’ll know more when I get it completed.
OK. I'm up and running with my ramp and ball guide.
The ball guide works good. It works very good. Every orbit shot that comes down comes right in front the flipper. The trouble is, depending on your point of view, is that ball comes around fast. You need to be like lightning on the right hand flipper button. It is not a shot for wimps. Even in a good session, the Seawitch orbit shots are no piece of cake. I thought having a straighter shot, as opposed to that flap gate business, would make for smoother, cleaner orbit shots.
Yes, you can make the loop shot. And yes, or no, it is not easy. Shooting that left hand orbit is a tuffy.
That said, I like the setup and am not interested in returning for the flap gate.
Pictures:
Ramp and guide:
The material I used to make the guide is some 3/4" aluminum strip I got at hardware store. It is rigid but also flexible and can have curves formed by hand. The ramp exit point measures 1/2" high so I had to remove an area of material from the guide to allow the balls to pass over the top.
Ramp and guide located:
The ball guide nests on top of a flange on the ramp. Here is where I messed up when starting this project. I tried to locate the ramp first. That is the backward way to do this. The trick is to locate the guide first. And then slide the ramp flange underneath; This way gets the ramp at the proper location. After that, the challenge is to get the ramp positioned to line up with the shooter lane for a good ball launch. To help with alignment I had to use my Dremel Tool and grind out a line of wood in the rail and let the ramp move further to the right.
For right now, I pulled a small nail that holds the loop ball guide to the rail and tucked my prototype guide underneath.
The guide sits just a little above the flipper and the ball exits right in front of the flipper.
To be continued in next post : Managing photos in pinside is a challenge .
IMG_9569 (resized).JPGQuoted from cottonm4:OK. I'm up and running with my ramp and ball guide.
The ball guide works good. It works very good. Every orbit shot that comes down comes right in front the flipper. The trouble is, depending on your point of view, is that ball comes around fast. You need to be like lightning on the right hand flipper button. It is not a shot for wimps. Even in a good session, the Seawitch orbit shots are no piece of cake. I thought having a straighter shot, as opposed to that flap gate business, would make for smoother, cleaner orbit shots.
Yes, you can make the loop shot. And yes, or no, it is not easy. Shooting that left hand orbit is a tuffy.
That said, I like the setup and am not interested in returning for the flap gate.
Pictures:
Ramp and guide:
The material I used to make the guide is some 3/4" aluminum strip I got at hardware store. It is rigid but also flexible and can have curves formed by hand. The ramp exit point measures 1/2" high so I had to remove an area of material from the guide to allow the balls to pass over the top.
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Ramp and guide located:
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The ball guide nests on top of a flange on the ramp. Here is where I messed up when starting this project. I tried to locate the ramp first. That is the backward way to do this. The trick is to locate the guide first. And then slide the ramp flange underneath; This way gets the ramp at the proper location. After that, the challenge is to get the ramp positioned to line up with the shooter lane for a good ball launch. To help with alignment I had to use my Dremel Tool and grind out a line of wood in the rail and let the ramp move further to the right.
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For right now, I pulled a small nail that holds the loop ball guide to the rail and tucked my prototype guide underneath.
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The guide sits just a little above the flipper and the ball exits right in front of the flipper.
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To be continued in next post : Managing photos in pinside is a challenge . [quoted image]
My spinner had to be relocated. It was not straight from the factory. not at all.
I aimed to make the spinner square to the ball guide I made. I do get better spinner shots with straight on ball hit.
Out of all the pics of Beatles pin on the internet, there is not one good pic of a view of this ball guide.
In this 1st pic, you can see the ball guide sitting in front of the ramp. Just barely.
29672-the-beatles-pinball-machine-1964-targets (resized).jpg
this pic shows the back side of the ramp.
Beatles-Gold-Detail-13 (resized).jpg
Pinside is messing with the order of my pictures so I will stop here.
It will work. I still need to refine my shooter rod. My beehive is a little worn. I have to get it to shoot dead on or the shot waffles.
More later.
29681-the-beatles-pinball-machine-skill-shot (resized).jpgBeatles-Gold-Detail-13 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mitch:If this works well you should contact cliffy or mantis and see it they will make a kit with the guide and the ramp.
Once I get the loop guide part number from Stern (and I will) there would be no point to involve Mantis or Cliffy. They would both need a Stern part to measure from and use as a pattern.
The only reason to involve these two is if Stern will not sell the parts. I just bought the ramp so I'm thinking Stern likes taking in the money. For right now, anyway.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Nice work. Keep er going cotton!
Thank you. I have managed to shoot one double loop tonight. No matter how I set it up, I don't think I will doing too many multi-loops like some of the Beatles playing guys have said they have gotten on the Beatles pin.
But it is nice to see that ball come down on a trajectory that looks like it was planned. And the only way I was able to square up the spinner is due to some space opening up with removal of the flap gate.
Quoted from dasvis:& you won't. The Beatles pin geometry is slightly different & more favorable to loops.
Can you, or anyone, describe what is different with the geometry? Is it something with the orbit entry point that has changed? Will it be worth the effort to buy the Stern loop guide?
Quoted from cottonm4:My spinner had to be relocated. It was not straight from the factory. not at all.
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I aimed to make the spinner square to the ball guide I made. I do get better spinner shots with straight on ball hit.
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Out of all the pics of Beatles pin on the internet, there is not one good pic of a view of this ball guide.
In this 1st pic, you can see the ball guide sitting in front of the ramp. Just barely.
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this pic shows the back side of the ramp.
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Pinside is messing with the order of my pictures so I will stop here.
It will work. I still need to refine my shooter rod. My beehive is a little worn. I have to get it to shoot dead on or the shot waffles.
More later.[quoted image][quoted image]
My contact at Stern has given me the part numbers.
The number for the guide in gray color is 535-1888-01. This for sure is the one you will need, unless you cobble something together as I have done.
The second part number, for the guide in green in the pic is 535-1888-07. We need to talk about this one.
So, to get all of the part numbers in on place:
1) shooter lane ball ramp........................535-1888-04. Known internally as Guide #4
2) ball loop guide...................................535-1888-01 I would assume this is Guide #1
3) skill shot gate bracket.........................535-1488-00
4) skill shot gate wire..............................535-1536-00
5) 535-1888-07 (I don't know what it is called. The green one, I guess). Even with my shooter mods I am going to need to make an upper guide as the ball will launch onto the plastic sometimes. So, I need something. But I am not sure this guide will fit under Seawitch's short play field glass without some sort of modification of cutting some material off of the top . I know I can make an effective guide for less than $10.00 and I will probably go with that.
If anyone decides to make this mod to their Seawitch they are going to need this upper ball guide or make one of their own.
Also, my little ball guide, that I made for around $10.00, seems to be working well so I will probably not be buying the loop guide. Since the ramp cost me $39.00 shipped I am guessing the ball loop guide will cost every bit of that. That's a lot of money for something that is probably not going to enhance game play very much, if any at all.
I'm not sorry I spent the money. I like fabricating things and fooling around. But to tell anyone that this is a must-have mod would be a lie. So far, I have managed to hit 4 or 5 double loop shots and I can not see much improvement when compared to the factory flap gate. But it looks cleaner, IMO.
The one big benefit from this exercise is that I was able to square up my spinner for better alignment with the lower left flipper trajectory. I never had noticed that the spinner was sitting off-angle to the flipper. And the reason it was located this way was to work around the flap gate mounting angle and its two attachment screws.
I have tell you, I never was impressed with the spinner on my Seawitch. It just never could gain momentum and get any kind of ripping action. I did nothing but square it up and I have been getting some decent spinner action.
I highly recommend that everybody try to square up their spinner. All you have to do is move the post forward a little bit and drill one new (worthwhile) hole. You will need to mod the post to allow it to fit over one the flap gate's bracket screws. And that screw will be hidden.
Good Luck.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Very interesting read cotton!
I also had to adjust my spinner. The front edge of the slipper was "leaning" towards the ball and there was not much adjustment available for me to change this. I usually adjust the tension on the spinner switch under the playfield ie I will pull the switch down to pull on the spinner to try to straighten the spinner so it is more vertical. I did this as much as I could but it still would not go perfectly vertical.
I still could make spinner shots ok but the ball seemed to sort of clip the front edge of the spinner as it entered and did not seem smooth. I was not satisfied with the angle of the spinner or the cleanliness of the shot.
I took a look at other games I had and noticed that on my Flash Gordon and maybe my Stars (I forget now) the spinners were mounted on the shorter star posts. My Seawitch spinner was mounted on the taller star posts. I swapped the tall star posts out and put in the shorter ones to lower the spinner for a cleaner entrance. This also allowed for more manipulation of the spinner switch underneath so I was able to get the spinner to stand up more vertical.
The spinner still leans back a bit and I want to try to get it straighter but it works much better now!
I am curious now....are everyone's seawitch spinners mounted on tall or short star posts?
Any other spinner adjustment tips? I think I have tried everything. I think the balance of the spinner itself could be off and not much you can do in some cases?[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
My Big Game, Seawitch, and Dragonfist spinners are mounted on tall posts. My Catacomb is mounted on short posts. I had not noticed this. I am going to swap it to tall posts which is the opposite of what you just did with your Seawitch. The reason I want tall posts is that the ball only needs to make very small contact with the spinner to make it spin. If you leave yours on those short posts more of the lower area of your spinner is going to lose paint because of your now larger ball contact area. I'll have to get you pics of my worn out Catacomb spinner so can see.
The forward angle on your Witch spinner that you are speaking of is a problem I also have with my Seawitch and some times it can disturb the hit. That angle crap happened after I made some adjustments to the spinner wires. All I/you need to fix that is moved the spinner switch back on the underside of the play field, fill the old holes with dowel rod and drill two new holes. I have my spinner balanced and spinning well and I do not want to jeopardize that by trying to adjust the angle out of it with the wires. I will be moving my switch backwards shortly; It is on my to-do list.
EDIT: just to be sure, the angle I was speaking of in my post about that, is the angle of the spinner cage and not the spinner itself.
Quoted from Shenanigander:So you suggest moving the spinner switch backwards a little bit under the Playfield to straighten up the spinner?
That's one way of doing it. Yes.
Quoted from Chalkey:Your spinners arms have likely been bent slightly back by constant abuse. Look at it from above and make sure it is a straight plane through the middle. It'll hang correctly afterwards. Make sure all the angles on the wires are very uniform for max spinnage.
I understand what you are saying, Chalky. But you have to admit that it is easier said than done. It takes practice to get them spinning correctly. And judging from some of the pins I bought, there was a lot of adjusting done previously that I had to correct. On my Nine Ball someone has even drilled two deep dimples on top of the spinner to "achieve balance"; Some small tweaking of the wire has the spinner resting perfectly.
I don't know how you do yours but I take the switch connecting rod off completely so I can spin just the spinner. Obviously, if you set the two wires above the axis of the center of the spinner you can get it to always stop with the lower edge pointing down. But now you might be setting up for an uneven spin since the wires are not centered to the axis.
After you get that nice smooth spin now you have to hook it all back up. This is where you have to adjust the tension on the switch. Too much tension on the switch will pull the the spinner rod down and make the spinner stand up straight but it will put a drag on your spinning action. Too little tension and now you are dealing with a spinner that wants to sit at an angle.
In the case of my Seawitch spinner, I managed to get a good smooth spin with just the spinner. And got the switch set to...ah...tension neutral... and I was left with this angle position problem. I'll take another look but relocating parts the factory did not locate per blueprint is nothing to me. And if relocating the switch solves the problem then I know where I am going.
In the meantime, maybe some pictures on adjusting a spinner should be posted. Yes? No?
Quoted from Shenanigander:Hmmm. I think I will have to revisit this and post some photos. I will remove the spinner completely again and try and square everything up again. I'm hoping for success but last time I tried that there was no adjustment that I could make that would get the spinner to sit vertical. I may even try tall star posts again. I feel like I had to rely on the tension the spinner switch to assist in getting a vertical rest on the spinner. I will mess around again and see what I can come up with.
Pictures coming. I am having the same problems with my Seawitch spinner as you are describing. I had no problems with balancing a different spinner, but this Witch spinner is the pits.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Haha cool. Why the hell are we up at 4 a.m. anyways LOL
The weather reporters around here talk like the disaster-ly cold we are having stops at the border. I'm figuring at 4am you are adding another log to the fire.
Quoted from Chalkey:Screw it, I'll do this while I make coffee.
This is a jacked up spinner taken straight out of a game that had been replaced. I haven't messed with it.
https://imgur.com/0GxcHBt
https://imgur.com/4xmxeVS
The arms need to be straightened both in horizontal and vertical planes. First we will line up the arms -1 and 2, in that order, with the top and bottom plane of the spinner, 3.
https://imgur.com/7kPnJrk
This can be done many ways, but be sure to use a tool with a smooth jaw that won't mar the arms and reduce your spinocity. Smooth jawed pliers work but I've found an adjustable wrench actually works really well when you adjust it to be the same size as the arms. Once you adjust the part of the arm I labeled 1 you will need a second wrench to hold that part in place while you make your adjustment to section 2. re-evaluate often and use a straight edge with the bottom or top of the spinner when you're having a hard time eyeballing it.
Here's the spinner after only making that adjustment to the one side:
https://imgur.com/bOF95EC
So next do the other arm and make sure everything is parallel with 1, 2, 3 on that side. Once that is done the spinner needs to be adjusted front to back. This is another place where the adjustable wrench can come in handy. If the jaws are large enough you can put the entire section you just adjusted in the jaws and move it into parallel with the top view of the spinner. Now we're sitting pretty.
https://imgur.com/vUCvISO
Epilogue: spinability.
Before putting the spinner back in the bracket make sure there are no burs or imperfections on the arms where they meet the bracket. If there are a dremel with a polishing bit and compound can smooth you out and really give your spinner arm a mirror finish and some zip. Make sure to replace the nylon washers in the correct spot. I like to add a TINY dab of teflon lube to the arms to maximize spinocrity. Before reassembly make sure the bracket is also 90 or 180 degree angles just like we did with the spinner arms. The spinner bracket will have two sides, one with a hole and one with an adjustment slot. Put the spinner in place remembering to put the switch arm back in place and put the nylon washer on both sides. Make sure it is lined up perpendicular to your spinner arms and doesn't bind. put the spinner inside the bracket and tighten down the side of the bracket with the hole. Put the screw into the side with the slot but do not tighten all the way. From here spin the spinner with your finger while moving the bracket through the adjustment range in the slot. When you find the sweet spot where the spinner is at max spinniness tighten the screw down and enjoy.
This is all good stuff, Chalky. The only thing I can add is that I bought some new brackets/cages from PBR and the slotted hole is no longer there. There are two holes only. So you must use a Dremel and cutting bit and make your own slot.
I am in the middle of working my write up and with this Seawitch spinner it is not happening.
This adjustment looks worse that it really is. The right hand wire pointing down as it is makes things look whacky. However, this acute angle kept the spinner pivot point right next to the outside of the cage allowing for no side-to-side movement. I got great, smooth spins. But always with that bottom-forward lean.
I figured I would draw some reference lines.
With the spinner back in its cage, I'm still getting nice smooth spins. I'm holding the cage with my fingers so if the spin is out of balance I will feel it. Nice smooth spins but still with that lean. I tweak the spinner up. Or down. Or forward. Or back. Nothing makes any difference with regards the lean. I cannot get vertical position.
I load a different spinner to compare. The other spinner spins in balance and can stop at any degree point without prejudice. I give that spinner a small tweak so it will stop in the vertical position. Nothing I do with the Witch spinner will resolve with it stopping in vertical position; I have managed to lessen the lean a little bit but have not obtained vertical position.
I relocated the switch a little farther back on the under-play field. That was more of a challenge to do than I was suspecting. And the spinner still did not go to vertical.
I finally had to add a little tension to the switch to achieve vertical. Just a little. I'm getting good spins still. And the problem of the ball colliding with the edge of the spinner is no longer an issue.
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I have one last item I want to do. But not today. The spinner is working good enough for now and I can play Seawitch. My Nine Ball has just blown a diode and is rolling up the points at 7000 per second and I need to trouble shoot that 
It is always something. With pinball machines in the house, retirement is not boring. Not at all.
This is the spinner switch on Nine Ball. It is sitting on a nylon spacer with the switch blade being nice and straight. Some of my Sterns have the nylon spacers. Some don't. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.
My plan is to disconnect the spinner rod from the switch and see where the rod hangs in relation to the switch. I know I will have to have some tension to keep the Seawitch spinner vertical but perhaps I need to salvage and old switch and use some of the blade spacers, or grab a nylon spacer block and see what happens.
BTW: You might notice that the Nine Ball switch is installed upside down with the long blade closest to the play field. It is an experiment and so far I like how it is working. Once I can locate the problem diode then I can continue with the experiment.
Quoted from Chalkey:It's just physics, it will hang straight if you get it aligned properly. Putting one arm at an angle and trying to pull down on it with your switch is only going to reduce your spintential but it seems you're not liking the flavor of my kool-aid anyways so I'll drop it.
Don't drop it, man. I appreciate your input. I understand the physics. But can't figure out why this seems top heavy. I have 5 other spinners hanging straight and they took nothing at all to get adjusted.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Nice. I just did 3 of my seawitch display connectors. For some reason many wires had insulation worn off just enough to expose some bare wire here and there and there was many wires with electrical tape on them covering up the exposed wire. I cut off all the frayed wires which were all near the connectors (very odd) and tidied that all up. I will have to post a pic. There are so many wires in the head with electrical tape covering up minor insulation wear. Like maybe 40 wires.
What would cause this?
Lots of reasons:
1) Someone attempted to cut a tie wrap and managed to cut into the wire, as well. Especially if they tried to cut a tie wrap with a razor knife.
2) Are you sure some of this "wear" is not soldering iron burns?
3) Frayed near the connectors could be someone did some re-pin work and did not get the wire located into the pin far enough for the insulation captured by connector when it was being crimped.
Man, if the insulation is worn thru to the wire you will need to cut the connector pin off, slide on some shrink tube and crimp a replacement pin on.
My Seawitch had been a heavily routed pin. There is a lot of shaking going on during game play. Remember how you learned you could take a piece of wire and keep bending until it broke? Yes. Well, with almost all of my lamp wiring, from all the years of shaking, the wire strands started breaking. Most of my lamp wires were all hanging by one wire strand only. I discovered this after I fixed one broken wire. And then another broken wire. When the third one broke I started looking around.
Quoted from Shenanigander:Best way to describe this is to show pics. I have tidied up some of this stuff but still have much more work ahead of me.
I don't think mice as no wires are "chewed" through. Just insulation wear. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I think dasvis is correct. Mice. Eating the insulation but leaving the wire alone.
I trick I learned recently for striped wiring: Acrylic paint and a small paint brush. Say you to need a white wire with orange stripes. Get the correct white wire and some orange acrylic paint and make your own striped wire. Cut the bad out, solder in the new, shrink wrap it.
Quoted from Arcade:Thanks. Got it fixed.
The two posts are nice and tight now.
Someone had just put hand cut machine screw shafts in the holes in my game.
I fully expected to remove T-nuts under the playfield but they were just screwed into the holes from the top. Very weird.
Anyway all good and stock now.
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Just so you know, those blue posts you have are not Stern style posts. You have finned posts. Stern used facetted posts. The part number you need if you decide to go that route is: C11562CB transparent dark blue.
Quoted from cottonm4:Just so you know, those blue posts you have are not Stern style posts. You have finned posts. Stern used facetted posts. The part number you need if you decide to go that route is: C11562CB transparent dark blue.
Oh, yeah, you can tell Steve at Pinball resource you want flipper switches for your Seawitch.
http://www.pbresource.com/buttswit.html
Actually, you want GTB-B17838+ High Current Switch.
Quoted from Arcade:Thanks for the part #
I don't know how far you want to go with repair and replacement, but you can make your own switches for lots of dollar savings. I have not gone as far as Frunch, yet, but I did order a selection of contacts. When the time comes I'll just replace the contacts for about 10 cents each.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/building-re-building-leaf-switches
Quoted from Arcade:Where does one get one of these?
Still available?
You are talking about the small piece of plastic above the left upper flipper that stops the ball from climbing on top of the plastic.
Usually everyone just makes their own.
Quoted from Arcade:Anyone have a paint code mix number or general paint color name for the blue frame around the backglass?
Best you can do is go to Home Depot or Lowes and pull a bunch of paint chips and start matching.
Krylon has some colors that are a good match for both the light blue and the dark blue.
Quoted from Arcade:In case this helps anyone else I went to Lowe’s to find the best match paint I could for whatever color my head around the backglass had faded to. For me it is the color on the top of the photo on Sherwin Williams card #233A “Oceanside Blue”
I know the true color will never show in a photo but here is the card anyway.[quoted image]
9006c47c9f85e9a4d2acbb4bafbd717a536f853d.jpeg (resized).jpg
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The chips I have scanned are a little too light, but these are the closest match to my cab. I have found a good match for both at the store in the Krylon rack.
These chips are from Lowes. The dark blue is Jay Blue Sherwin Williams SW6797. the light blue is Rapture Blue SW 6773
I'm going to go out to Lowes and get the chips you show. They maybe be a better match that what I have. But then again, with rattle cans off the shelf there are not going to be very many choices.
Quoted from Arcade:Cool find on the Ali cabinet.
I did just repaint the inside of mine.
Looks so much better now.
Now I need to see about toning down my Flipper power a bit.
Both of my lower flippers are way to strong and I know something will break if I leave them alone.
What coil should be on the lower flippers?
Maybe someone used what they had.
If they turn out to be correct is there a way to soften them with the end of stroke switch maybe?
[quoted image]
Lower flippers J-25-475/34-4500
Quoted from cottonm4:My Beatles launch ramp arrived this afternoon. Like any kid with a new toy I have been trying it out for fitment and action.
1) It is a little tricky to get lined up perfectly to make a good launch. I have pretty much got it lined up and the shooting is OK.
2) Permanent attachment is with two factory screw holes. I may have to drill one more hole for a full 3-point lockdown.
3) I have made a temporary ball guide from some polycarbonate to play around with and try for a good ball trajectory.
Observations:
If I pull the shooter rod all the back the ball snaps the glass. However, a more gentler skill shot pull makes for a nice smooth launch with no glass contact.
For shooter lane action I give a big thumbs up. But I'm still working on it.
For action of coming around in a clockwise loop, I also give a thumbs up. But a good ball guide is going to take some work.
What I have going right now with a 2-3 hours install and experiment time is looking good. Even where I am at so far I do not have to deal with a flap gate which is great.
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Quoted from cottonm4:It's going to work. I got my metal ball guide built this afternoon. I have some fine tuning and clean up to do, but the guide will let you bang the upper right flipper for a clockwise orbit shot.
It is going to work !!
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I finally finished my Beatles ramp for the shooter lane. As mentioned sometime back, this set up does not help with getting any more loop shots. So the time and money spent for that reason was a bust. However, as a preference for using the flap gate or going with this shooter set up, I do not miss the flap gate. It is not 100% perfect. Every once in a while I get a crappy shot but 9 times out of 10 I get nice smooth shots from the shooter lane.
I had to make 2 deflectors to keep the ball from jumping up and going over the arch plastic. Deflector #1 is an aluminum strip that travels from the rail and arcs around on top of the arch plastic. Deflector #2 ( does not show up in the pics) is a piece of plastic that is located on top of the drop target plastic. This plastic deflector is the first contact the ball has as it leaves the shooter ramp. The ball brushes it lightly on launch and does not crash into the play field glass. I am very satisfied the way it has turned out.
I also modified my strip of aluminum that replaced the flap gate. My prototype extended from the loop and went all the way down to just above the upper right flipper. This eliminated the two post and the rubber that located above the flipper. I have shortened the strip and replaced to two posts and rubber ring.
To do this I had to:
1) Make an undercut in the rail for proper location of the ramp. You can see the white wood in the rail where I did some grinding.
2) I had to drill two holes to locate the ramp.
3) I had to drill one hole to attach the flap gate replacement strip. The upper part of this strip is just pinched between the rail and the loop ball guide.
4) I drilled one new hole to relocate the outside edge of the spinner. With the factory install of the flap gate, the spinner sort of sat at an angle inside the loop lane. With the flap gate removed I was able to move the outside spinner post farther up the play field. The spinner performance is still the same and it is still a bitch to target but I think it looks better.
I also used some of this nice hand-formable aluminum strip to make a new deflector for lower left hand drop targets.
My plan is to bring Seawich to TPF. If you are going, then check out my shooter setup. It is not going to knock you out but I think you will appreciate it.
Quoted from Arcade:I played a couple of games on this game at TPF.
Nicely done sir.
Game played very well.
What I did like the most is the use of a regular skinny flipper bat for the upper right. Gives a much better shot at a spinner rip.
By playing your game I also now know that my flipper strength is way to hard for this game. Yours did not seem like it will snap any drops but played well.
I also picked up a reproduction backglass from GreatJohn at the show.
Does anyone know the size of metal lift trim I need for it and the best place to order if available?
Thank you very much. The flipper bats are the aluminum bats that Pinball Life sells. You are looking at $50.00 worth of bats. I love the way they hit.
Quoted from Arcade:I played a couple of games on this game at TPF.
Nicely done sir.
Game played very well.
What I did like the most is the use of a regular skinny flipper bat for the upper right. Gives a much better shot at a spinner rip.
By playing your game I also now know that my flipper strength is way to hard for this game. Yours did not seem like it will snap any drops but played well.
I also picked up a reproduction backglass from GreatJohn at the show.
Does anyone know the size of metal lift trim I need for it and the best place to order if available?
All 4 of my flipper coils are blueprint coils and the upper flippers also use the blueprint resistors. Other than the Beatles launch ramp this pin is all blueprint stock.
Quoted from Arcade:Turns out my problem with the right Flipper was that the Flipper button leaf switch was toast. New switch installed and we are flipping good again.
I was curious while looking at my drop target coils. Are they supposed to have a return spring like the flippers or do they just use gravity to pull the bar back down?[quoted image]
Your drops are fine. No spring needed.
Quoted from dasvis:You would be better off finding a set of original stern drops. The repros don't seem to work as well.
I installed a new set of repros before I ever played my Seawitch.
I don’t have any problems with the way they work.
In what way do they not work as well as originals?
Quoted from Chalkey:The only issue I'm having with the drops is they will cause airballs that go part the upper flipper and wedge between the glass and plastic in that area. The only way to get it out is to remove the glass which causes the ball to roll down the plastic, in my case cracking it. This was done a long time before I got the machine. Mine has the repro drops in it now that have the flat lip that does not extend any further side to side. I'm hoping replacing it with the newer repros with the side extensions (to reduce stucky balls) will somehow help the issue. I've made the drop height perfectly level with the playfield top so I might be working towards a lost cause but I figured I'd try it.
I found my decals from Doc and was disappointed they're only the "s" with no background white. It's easy to line up a square, I have to figure out how to put these on without it looking like a 3rd grade art project.
The plastic had been broken on my Witch for the same reason long before I bought it.
I had the same problem. I think it will happen no matter what drops you are using.
Even the new Beatles pin will pop the ball back over that plastic but since newer cabinet locates the glass farther away from the play field the ball just harmlessly rolls back on the table.
Salvage the bracket material from a couple of worn #44 bulb sockets and get a small strip of sheet metal (from a tuna fish can if you have to ) 3/4” high and get some hollow rivets from Steve at PBR. I’d you can’t get the rivets then some #4 screws and nuts should work. Slip some black or silver paint on and you are good to go.
For Doc’s stickers, get a fine tip Sharpie marker and a machinist’s scale and measure for the center-point on the face of your drop targets. Then eyeball the stickers on straight.
I did this for the nine numbers for my Big Game and they look fantastic.
Quoted from Chalkey:I think you're probably right and I'm wrong
^^^ first time this has ever been said on pinside
cottonm4 I know that was an option too but I really wanted something less visually obstructive. Using old sockets for the brackets is brilliant, I would have cut and bent sheet metal. I could have gotten a little more elegant with my rail but I used the thickest wire that came with the kit and it was a pain to work with. Probably overkill and I could have made something nicer with a thinner gauge. The clearance between ball and plastic is also so small I probably could have just made it about a 1/4" rise. In any case, I had folks over Saturday night and so far so good with 0 balls jammed over the plastic.
Well Chalkey, you galvanized me into action regarding a Seawitch ball control item. I figure there had to be another way to skin this cat.
This is my aluminum ball stop bracket that I made awhile back. For this bracket I used some light socket strap to make my attachment brackets. THe bracket itself is a soft hand formable aluminum.
IMG_0873 (resized).JPG
IMG_0875 (resized).JPG
But it has all gone away now. I have made a clear hood that is above the left upper flipper. I think this will contain the ball quite handily. After doing some play testing I may have to make a 2nd unit with a different profile; I might have to add a little more material This is very thin polycarbonate that measures .010" thick/ or thin. Poly is essentially unbreakable so I think the .010" thinness will work in fine form.
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Making the marks on my plastic. The pic is not clear but it is showing the bottom end of the plastic.
Here it is installed. You can see the hood but it hides in plain site fairly well.
I'll play test it for a little while. If need be, I make extend the hood a little farther out from the flipper.
Quoted from Chalkey:I was envisioning something exactly like your aluminum bracket,
but made out of clear plastic. I'm not sure your other one will
work for the issue I'm having which is balls becoming airborne at
the drops. Is that poly heat formable to make it stand up?
I had one of clear plastic. It was not rigid enough so I had to make at least 12" long so I could lock it down with more posts holes.
The aluminum one works great but it is obtrusive. It does not hide well, at all.
I'm not sure this new one will work, either, so I will play test it for a bit.
This poly is .010" thin. You can bend it; You can roll it. With .010, you can bend it while cold.
If my new one does not work, I will cut another one with a longer hood. And then I can bend the hood back about 70 degrees and make it stand up. And it will still be almost invisible.
Quoted from Chalkey:dasvis what style drops do you have? You never have airballs off the drops? Starting to think maybe it's a combination with the drops and maybe a slightly sunken insert or something.
The ball is not bouncing off the drops. It is bouncing off of the flipper.
Quoted from Chalkey:The upper flipper? I'm not tracking cuz if that's what you're seeing the ball is on the playfield, gets hit with the upper flipper then magics itself back behind it?
Every one of my Sterns has the habit of having a ball bounce over a bottom flipper every one in a while. That upper flipper gets a lot of kickback from those middle drop targets. With the right bounce over it goes.
Quoted from Marv:Can anyone help me out here please?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/seawitch-j1-as-2518-18
Here you go.
Quoted from Arcade:While I agree the photo is a bit to blue use what you like.
I use Comet white sunlight and the game looks great with none of the heat on my backglass and plastics.
What I have noticed about LEDs is that they are not photogenic. A couple of my pins look great with LEDs but if I posted pics here everybody would have fit.
Quoted from kickabit:I have a question for Seawitch owners. On your game can you soft plunge to the “5000 3 Advance” lane? On some games the ball naturally travels to the left of the shooter lane on a soft plunge and then comes back down through the “5000 3 Advance” lane. On the game I have the ball always stays straight and can never falls down that lane. I’m wondering what the correct behavior should be. Anyone know or have opinions?
I saw that being done on a tournament video. I was always wondering where the skill shot was on this pin. So I started trying to shoot this way and figured out it is a waste of time. By the time you make that shot---if you even make it at all---I can blast the ball around the orbit and drop 5 drop targets for 1000 points each and have a good game going.
Quoted from razorsedge:Oh, I figured anyone familliar with Seawitch would have noticed the difference in orbit flow. Anyway...
Sorry. With your camera placed 10 feet away from the pin combined with I am looking with my cell phone, it is not obvious.
It looks interesting. But some close up pics, unless you are trying to keep a secret, would be nice to see.
Quoted from razorsedge:Could get someone local to make the same. Problem I see is that these games can vary a little in dimension, like from the two screw holes in PF to where the orbit guide begins. I couldn't guarantee proper fit to an unknown copy...
Some people will have an issue if a new hole has to be drilled into the play field; Some won’t.
I incorporated a launch ramp from a Beatles pin that required drilling two new holes in the shooter lane and some had issue with that.
The challenge will be how to point out to someone just where it will need to be located for the proper fit and action.
What kind of spring are using? Expansion spring or torsion spring?
Quoted from razorsedge:An extension spring from a grab kit.
[quoted image]
I guess a tortion spring could be a bit cleaner looking. That would make it more fiddly, and perhaps less robust. My welding practice is about rookie level Lol ... I tried to make it as tidy looking as I could... there is plans for final refinements and improvments.
At least one, the pivot pin position needs to come in, more into line with the two screws.
Also, there are no new holes for the diverter. Moving the post at the entry to left loop is not required. It just makes bottom flipper left orbits possible. The new hole comes inside the footprint of the star post. 5.5mm. The unused hole does stay covered.
A torsion spring would look neater but would not really be practical. Finding a replacement expansion spring would be much easier than trying to replace a broken torsion spring.
You have the ability to weld. That is a big advantage
It looks good. Maybe some refinement needed, but it looks good.
If you could find an economical way to add an adjustable spring tensioner ...
Quoted from TractorDoc:Finally getting a chance to load some pics of the Seawitch I picked up a little while back. A bit rough -- no backglass and a playfield that is just a bit worn.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I found a crackly backglass at the Cleveland Show; its a bit easier to look at now.
[quoted image]
Noticed there was an extra transformer looking unit in the bottom cabinet -- seems this witch originated in Canada.
[quoted image]
Right now the game lives in my garage; it gives me something to play in between burger flips on the grill. I figure I cannot hurt it too much more in its current condition.
You are really starting to get the Sterns in your blood and have been rounding up some nice examples to work with.
P.S. I call dibs on those 4 red drop targets if you would like to replace them They look like Dragonfist red drop targets.
Quoted from Marv:Does anyone have a file or measurements on the plastic add-on to stop the ball going on the plastic?
Something that is about 3/4" inch // 25 mm high. Bend and form so you can screw it down on the post studs.
==========================================
Or do this: Cut a piece of .020 clear polycarbonate/ Lexan to match the profile of the plastic and also add some extra material over the top of the flipper. This small area of plastic over the flipper has stopped my problem and it looks cleaner that having a piece of material sitting on top of the plastic and acting like a dam.
It sits under the plastic and needs no mounting brackets.
Quoted from WonderMellon:I just joined the club last week. Such a great game. It is actually the first game in our lineup that my wife wants to play together.
I would say that is is working about 98%. There are one or 2 lamps out and I am not sure if some of the switches are working. In order to check these out further, I need to get the self-test to work.
When I hit the self test button, I can hear a click under the play field and then everything but the GI goes dead. Not sure where to start on this. My thought is maybe a solenoid is shorting and killing the MPU???? Anyone run into this before or have an idea of where I can start?
You might try replacing your self test switch. On of my Sterns would not do the self test. It turned out the switch was defective. Your problem sounds a bit different but those switches are cheap to replace (not accounting for shipping costs).
Quoted from vbittnv:Selling my restored Seawitch in case someone is looking for an amazing example in the Midwest!
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/90335
Which transformer is installed in your Seawitch? The fuse values called out on the rectifier mounting board shows 5 amps for the solenoids, instead of 7 amps Seawitch came with. Perhaps someone swapped transformers?
Quoted from WonderMellon:I have a few bulbs out. There does not seem to be a lamp matrix chart. I can't really make out the list in the schematics to a chart. Does anyone know if a lamp matrix chart exists, and if so point me in the right direction?
There is no lamp matrix chart. There are two pages in the print that tell you which light has what color of wire and its connector pin location.
E.G. the first light in the list tells you that it is "blue left side" with wire color of brown with black stripe. And it travels to connector J1-pin 18 on the LDA. This is the blue light on the left side of the orbit. Sometimes it is a bit of a struggle to figure out which light is which because of the way the engineers labeled them.
Try this: halfway down you see
1) Drop Target Increase (Middle) This is the big white X light in the middle 4-place drop assembly.
2) Drop Target increase (Bottom) This is the big white X light in the middle 4-place drop assembly.
OK. You now have the middle drop and bottom drop assemblies located. Where is the Top Drop Target at?
You will find down low. It is #6 from the bottom and is is just called "Target Increase". This is your top drop target assembly.
This pic is from the play field schematic page.
Screen Shot 2020-01-13 at 7.34.21 PM (resized).png
=============================================================================
And this pic from the LDA page shows the same thing.
Screen Shot 2020-01-13 at 7.34.42 PM (resized).png
Bally blueprints from the same era are all nice and neat with clean writing by the engineers. Stern's drawings are a sloppy mess. In some cases a doctor's handwriting would be better
Quoted from WonderMellon:So instead of a matrix, each lamp is controlled by it's own connection wire and circuit?
You got it.
Quoted from WonderMellon:It looks like I have 10 lights out. (I metered the sockets and no power goes to them during lamp test)
J3-1
J1-1
J1-8
J3-19
J1-28
J2-4
j3-16
J3-23
J2-8
If you are lucky, the little "windows" that lock the pin into the connector will be facing toward you and you can test for power at the circuit board. If you are not lucky, you might be able to pull the connector away from the board just a little to where might be able to test at the base of the connector. You can also just check for continuity in this manner.
Quoted from WonderMellon:The last one is Advance Loop Value 1 from the bottom drop target, but I can not match that up to a description on the list.
Sometimes you have to open up the machine and see what color of wire is on the item you cannot I.D. And then wire color you just ID'ed and take that back to the print and see which pin has to color of wire you need.
And then you have to hope all of your wire colors are correct to print. My Big Game has four wires that do not match the blueprint.
E.G.
I have a callout for a purple/white wire on the print. But what is actually there is Gray/black. I cannot remember the other 3. My Catacomb has a yellow wire called out on one solenoid but what is actually there is orange/red. One more Catacomb is like that that I know of.
The thought is that Stern ran out of the correct color of wire and grabbed something just to keep the line running.
You will figure it out eventually.
Quoted from jay:I couldn't stand it... cobbled together something that looks a bit more like Beatles and it works great. Both the spinner and ball launch easily make the orbit. This was an exercise in patience though, and needed a few random ball guides that had to be hacksawed, filed and ground into a usable shape.
Great minds think alike. I installed a Beatles ramp last year. Works great.
Did you make any mods to the shooter spring? I had to in order to slow down the launch, otherwise the ball kept slapping the glass.
Quoted from razorsedge:[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Here are the pics from earlier in the thread, last year.
That is a cool design. I was impressed when you showed in last year.
Quoted from jay:Yeah, I have a much weaker spring in. I think I might need to go up one more strength but we’ll see. The game is going on location this week so I’ll get a real good feel for durability soon. I was looking at the Beatles setup trying to figure out how to tackle this, essentially cloned it with easily obtainable parts. Compared to your build I added a guide along the back arch plastic (also on Beatles). Now I’m wondering if I needed it. It did seem like I was easily getting airballs over the lane without but I also built it before I went to the weaker shooter spring.
I used a green spring but cut about 40% of it away and then added a 1 inch rubber spacer (rubber fuel line hose split on the side) to the shooter rod shaft to add back some tension. It gives good launches. I only very rarely get a glass ball.
I have an outside guide, too. You need it. Of course, once I got my shooter spring adjusted it seems like I might be able to remove half of it. but it still serves a purpose.
You can barely see it but I also have a plastic barrier bolted down on the play field plastic just below the 4-bank drop target. Occasionally, a ball still does hit it, too.
Quoted from razorsedge:The game in the videos does have another mod to make the orbits obtainable in the clockwise direction, for any that are okay with an extra hole in the playfield: Star post immediately above left upper flipper, moves 4.5-5mm up and to the right. This means whichever hole is unused still is covered completely by the footprint of the star post. Also, this is not too far so that the plastic still fits fine without modification. It significantly improves the ability to make left orbits, from both of the right flippers.
Tell me if I am understanding correctly. You are talking the bottom star post on the left inside play field plastic. Just to the left of the lower left pop bumper?
Quoted from razorsedge:Yep. 3/16" north/east you move it. Just enough so that the new hole has 1/16" or so clearance from the edge of the old hole. The post base still fully covers the unused hole, and the plastic can still fit without any real stress.
Game isnt here or I'd take a pic ... hang on ....
[quoted image]
This is what has been done to the game in the videos...
It makes the left orbit entry slightly wider, but also makes some shots sent between the post and the pop behave a bit differently where the rubber now angles inward more toward the bumper. Sometimes rolls around there a bit like a ball guide and still somehow misses Every Target and Pop including drops and comes round right back at you, somehow! LOL
Thanks ipdb and paint Lol
Thanks. I'll give that a try. I already have couple of other posts with a hidden extra hole; One more won't hurt. Moving this post is about as close you are going to get to try and mimic what was done with Beatles in the upper left flipper area.
Quoted from razorsedge:Here are pics of My game, showing the mods.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I see your post mod in pics #1 and #3. And I see your gate mod in pic #4. But what is pic #2 all about?
Another mod I did was to move the spinner. If you look closely at the spinner you will see that it is sitting off-angle. It does not face the lower left flipper exactly.
With the flap gate removed I had a little extra space where the spinner is located. I moved the right hand side of the spinner back about 1/2". It does not change the play action but since I could square it up I decided to do so. You can see the hole where it used to locate.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:This game has a new weebly soundboard, MPU and rectifier, what ground mods are needed? The bottom flippers have new switched, the top do not. I’ve cleaned the crap out of the top ones and still get a flipper stutter. Not sure what else to do there.
Otherwise it seems solid. Also the flipper buttons are still arcing blue sparks a lot. Will I just have to live with it?
You might try a different flipper coil.
You have to live with the blue sparks. But I am thinking that the flipper capacitors Williams used and that PBR sells might help with the sparks.
Quoted from jay:This is all about the flap, which is a ridiculous design IMO and probably had far more to do with BOM cost then how well it worked.
The flap is not that big of deal and does little to affect game play. I replaced the flap on mine with the launch ramp that is on The Beatles. I'm happy with the mod and I will not remove it.
However, I thought installing a Beatles ramp and making a solid ball guide on the right orbit would help with upper right flipper shots to the left orbit. It makes no difference. Making the left orbit with the right flipper is just as difficult. It is no easier to make multiple loops. The most loops I have ever had was 2.5. and that was with the flap gate.
The factory flap gate, as well as the Cliffy unit look a little cheesy, but there is no performance improvement with The Beatles ramp.
I'm not sorry that I did the mod, but would not be sorry if I had not done this.
Quoted from jay:I would personally never pitch a classic Stern at 4.5
I had mine set up at a little over 5% and it played well and balanced. I was told I needed to raise it up to 6.0- 6.5. I did that for awhile. The responsiveness sort of went away. The orbits were much harder to target, especially the spinner. I backed it off to about 5.5% and it plays much smoother and the spinner is a little easier to target.
I have my Big Game set to 7.5% and the flippers kick like mules. It is powerhouse that I will never lessen the slope on.
Nine Ball seems to work very well at 6.0%. As does Catacomb. Dragonfist at 6.2% has good action. But not Seawitch.
Quoted from wrb1977:The best way to score points regardless of how well the orbits are working is by completing banks of drops, building your bonus multiplier, and scoring the bonus value when lit by completing the associated bank.
Yes. Seawitch is definitely a drop target game. The orbits are nice, especially when she screams. But the points are those drop targets. 1000 points a target and add 1000 to the bonus. This is where The Beatles is a little better than Seawitch with the different modes and other variances.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Whoops! My bad. I thought Seawitch was supposed to be at a 7° angle. I’ll lower her down. I enjoyed how fast and brutal she was playing and I can nail the hell out of the left orbit via the upper right flipper. My only issue was how difficult a perfect shot on the spinner was. I’ve achieved it multiple times and find it to be so incredibly satisfying that I debated whether making is “easier” would ruin the reward of finally ripping the hell out of the spinner.
The other issue I have: was the left orbit EVER intended to be achievable via the bottom right flipper? It seems like with just a quarter of an inch more clearance you could *just barely* make that shot. The big ol’ Stern flipper takes up too much space.
So all in all, spinner shot on from the bottom left is hard but doable. Flap is hardly an issue for me since the game is so steep. But the bottom right flipper to left orbit quite literally cannot be made and it really seems like it should be a feasible shot and I would like to modify that. Anyone know if Kubin originally intended it that way? With a modified figure 8 style it sure seems it.
I use the Pinball Life aluminum flipper bats. I would suggest you at least use a Williams bat for the upper left flipper. It won't turn you into a wizard but it will help the left orbit a little bit.
Quoted from Madmax541:Seawitch part where does it go?
Putting a Seawitch PF together that was partially assembled[quoted image][quoted image]
That looks like a plunger stop that you will see on the flipper assemblies. Or rather it is a stop for the flipper plunger links.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Does anyone here have a scan (or better yet cameo or vector art) for a Seawitch apron? Actually, the scan doesn’t have to be from Seawitch since there were a number of games with the same apron, just different colors. Anything with the correct art/lettering would do.
I have an apron and a scanner. What are you cooking up?
Quoted from pinheadpierre:I want to make stencils for an apron repaint using my cameo. The text and some of the art are worn to metal on mine so I’m looking for a better scan. I’ll shoot you a PM.
I just answered you before I saw your PM. If the PM sounded rude, I apologize.
Quoted from bluespin:You could buy an apron decal at this site. While there buy coin door and credit button decals.
http://www.pinballrescue.net/Decals_Apron_Stern.html
The decals are nice. However, the blue color that is used is not a Seawitch color of blue.
Quoted from bluespin:Did Lightning and Seawitch have the same shade of blue on their aprons?
No.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Has anyone here upgraded their speaker? The sounds on Seawitch are pretty basic, so I’m not sure if the speaker is with improving or not. These older games always sound kinda mushy/muffled to my ear. I don’t know if that’s due to a crappy speaker, primitive audio boards/sounds or....?
pinheadpierre,
You remind me of this guy.
Here is a partial pic of my Seawitch apron and the apron decal I got from Pinball Rescue.
Let me say first off that the decal I got form Lee for my Star Gazer was dead on the money for color. The yellow is yellow. It looks nice.
The one you see here looks nice. It is very good quality. But the blue color is just not there. I don't know where they come up with this shade of blue. It does not match the blue on my Nine Ball, either.
Quoted from bluespin:That decal doesn’t match Lightning either.
It does not match anything and someone advised me this afternoon that some of the text is missing.
It should say, : "Stern Electronics, Inc. "
Instead, it just says "Stern Electronic. I'm bummed out about it.
I have been looking at this decal on and off for 3 years and did not notice this. The one on my Star Gazer is the same way.
And I also discovered this afternoon that Catacomb and Dragonfist have a different font where it says " For Amusement Only" .
IMG_3379 (resized).JPGQuoted from pinheadpierre:Yes, I did notice that the leg that attaches to the underside of the playfield was longer as well. I figured this could be shortened relatively easily. It’s the vertical leg that has me concerned.
Measuring my Seawitch supports the same as you have measured yours, from the bottom of the top to the bottom of the bottom measures 2.50"
The lower legs on mine are the shorter version.
Quoted from Jahkub:Hey y'all, just picked up a decent seawitch last weekend and have an issue that maybe one of you has come across.
It's somewhat intermittent, but when the left drop bank is completed it will continuously score the bank value, activate the loop lights/sounds for the rest of the ball and doesn't reset the bank. The bank functions in test and at game start and the switches are gapped well. I've tried manually lifting the drops during the endless scoring/lights/sounds to see if that would stop it but it did not.
This game has no signs of corrosion and other than a blown q19, looks great.
Any thoughts?
You have something wrong with one of your switches. Yes, it will work at game start as something different is triggering the coil at start up.
Do this:
1) lift the play field.
2) Run a business card or a piece of file folder paper through the switches to make sure they are clean.
3) with the play field still lifted, start up a game. Manually press and drop each drop target. Each target makes a sound when it drops and closes the switch. When you get a switch that makes no noise, check it out closely. That is probably where you will find your problem.
Quoted from Jahkub:Each switch seems to be working in test but I'll give it a shot anyway. I figure whatever the issue is it'll be fixed by the time I redo the connections and clean it up but I thought I'd see if it was a common thing.
I am no pinball repair wizard and learn new things everyday, or at least try to. So take this with a grain of salt and maybe someone will come in and correct me if I am wrong.
I think when doing the switch test that the solenoid coils are fired electronically with no switch action; The same occurs as your drop targets reset when the ball drains. Those drops reset from an electronic action. For example, a 3- place drop target with two targets down will reset for a new ball by electronic signals when the ball drains. There is nothing in the pin that is going to manually close that last switch.
However, when you are playing a game you need all 3 switches to close to send that needed signal. You have two drops down and when the ball drains, the outhouse switch takes over for the last open switch. Therefore, you need to check each switch manually.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Oracal 813 cut on a cameo silhouette.
I wish I had your knowledge and skills. Those look nice. Much better looking than the 3 I did manually with pinstripe tape and a degree wheel.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Thanks. Having finished the pop caps, the apron has moved up a notch on the project list.
More than happy to share the stencil with you or anyone else who wants to give airbrushing a try.
I have an air brush. A cheapie, but it gets the job done. I'll send you a PM.
Thanks in advance.
Quoted from Jahkub:Ack, I just saw that the ribbed posts I was thinking of are on a different recently acquired machine, a Williams Phoenix. My Seawitch has the same faceted posts.
The ribbed posts are Williams. They are wax magnets.
Quoted from Completist:Working on a project Seawitch. The dead has risen, i have a playing game now. Can someone share images of how their flippers are wired? Mine look wrong. I need to rebuild them and want to correct anything while i’m at it. Thanks
Please put up some pics of all 4 of your flippers. WE'll get you going.
Let's do the lower left, first. ( Please study what I am saying below. It is not easy to describe wiring. Sorry. ). Get to know this lower LEFT flipper circuit cold. And then know that the lower RIGHT hand circuit is exactly the same except the the green wire has been replaced with an orange wire that travels to connector J-1 on the SDU board.
Once you have the two lower flippers figure out, realize that the two upper flippers are wired just the same except for resistors. Once you have understanding of the lower flippers, then we can work the resistors on the uppers.
If you have any questions, then ask them. Don't be shy.
===========================================================================================
Is the lower left flipper working? If not, then let's fix it.
Before I get started, the lower left flipper has 2 switches; 1 switch is the EOS switch that opens when you press the flipper button. The other switch is the power supply to the upper flipper; This switch closes when you press the flipper button. Keep this in your thought processor.
From your pic:
1 A) The blue white wire is correct. It comes from the hot side of the fuse holder and lives above the diode band on the coil lugs.
There is a 2nd blue/white wire at the fuse holder. It will feed power to the other 3 flippers; Each of those other 3 flippers should have two Blu/W wires soldered to the lug above the diode band to complete the Blu/W flipper wire daisy chain.
1 B) Along with the Blu/W wire, there is also one black wire that leads to the EOS switch (This black wire would be better if it was a Blu/W jumper wire.). On the center lug is another black wire that leads to a different lug on the EOS switch---this completes the circuit on the EOS switch. The EOS switch contains one Blu/W wire above the diode band; one black (again, better if this wire was Blu-W) wire above the diode band; and one black wire (center lug) that installs below the diode band.
2) This next explanation is a little tricky as yours is wired different than mine. The third lug on the coil is below the diode band. This is the green wire that comes from connector J-1 on the SDU board. This is the wire that completes left hand flipper circuit This lug also has a black jumper wire wire that leads to the the non-EOS switch of the switch pair (If you look carefully, you will see that my black wire has broken and is sitting next to a 2nd green wire. This 2nd green wire, leading from the closing switch, travels up to the left upper flipper switch and also completes the lower left flipper circuit.
NOTE: Instead of a black wire being paired with a green wire at the coil lug, it could (and should be, IMO) be a green wire that leads from the coil lug to the closing switch.
I'll try to condense the above to make it easier to understand.
A) Blu/W power wire feeds the coil lug above the diode band. It also feeds power to the EOS switch. The other side of the EOS switch is a black wire that travels back to the center coil lug, which is below the diode band.
B) The green wire that completes the flipper circuit attaches to the coil lug below the diode band. The black ( should be green ) wire travels from the coil lug down to the closing switch. The other side of the closing switch has a green wire that travels to the UPPER left flipper.
Here is the blueprint for the left lower and upper flipper coils ( I also just noticed that the EOS switch is drawn incorrectly. The EOS switch is associated with the the B/W wire, not the green wire as presented in this drawing. ( It is not the first instance of Stern screwing up the drawings).
Screen Shot 2020-07-19 at 9.37.06 AM (resized).png
Here it is corrected.
Screen Shot 2020-07-19 at 9.47.30 AM (resized).png
You can click on this pic to make it larger.
Quoted from Completist:Found it.
I only have 3 controlled lamps that don’t wanna light. Will pull lamp driver board tomorrow and test those scr’s and if all goes well we will have a 100% seawitch ready for a proper shop job .
[quoted image][quoted image]
My nine Ball has a serious burn mark on the lower side of the play field where one of those type of sockets went out. The burn was there when I bought it.
Quoted from Completist:Think i have it all running the way its sposed to now. As for why my HSTD was not displaying, i changed a mpu dip switch to turn that feature back on. I also changed the first replay value to 10,000 to act as my “freeplay”. Other than that i replaced 3 SCR’s and all controlled lamps are lighting now. Pretty happy where i am today compared to where i started - which was a game that wasn’t booting lol.
Now its time to take apart all the mechs to clean and replace those broken switch capacitors that always seem to have a leg snapped off. New rubbers and a top side cleaning. Think its gonna come out nice. There is a bit of wear on the pf that i won’t touch up. Artistic work like color matching is def not my forté.
Drop targets. I have the 4 in the middle that are incorrect (not the Blue S). I can replace those but they’ll be so white compared to the other banks. So i can buy a kit to replace all of them - but is there a preferred source for these? Marco or PBR - are they both the selling the same? I thought i read something about the replacements somewhere..
PBR sells the targets for $4.00 each. Marco is a little bit higher priced.
Quoted from Tomass:Never thought I would be joining this club given the availability of titles up here, but made a huge score today! Got it for 800. Will need some work and BG is flaking but still very happy. I imagine someone makes this BG? I will start searching to see.
[quoted image]
Your play field is super clean. I only see a wear area up by the left pop bumper. All of your key lines are still there. And in just looks super clean none of dirt in the inlanes.
Nice score !
Quoted from Completist:i’ll take the banks off to disassemble then clean and polish them.
The polishing is not required but I understand. The cleaning of everything will pay off in some good acting drops.
Quoted from Krupps4:Anybody know of where I can get a coin door for a Seawitch? The one I have is kind of beat up (see pic) and I am looking for something a bit cleaner. Thanks in advance!
[quoted image]
With the right tools and some sheet metal skills, that coin door can be fixed so don't throw it away.
Quoted from Completist:So I finally got all the drop target banks cleaned up with new targets. 7 of them were proper, the 4 in the middle were not. But didnt think i’d like 4 really white ones and 7 clean but not so white ones. So they all are new now.
[quoted image]
May I suggest that you protect your new targets with a strip of mylar? You need not cover the entire face. A 3/8"or 1/2" strip of mylar covering the ball travel area will shlep to keep them looking newer and cleaner for longer.
Quoted from Completist:I should of listened to Cotton. They look good and function great, but make all the other mechs look worse than before. Guess i’m doing those next...
[quoted image]
You have them all shined up. Now take the next step and spray a light coat of clear Rustoleum to keep them somewhat shiny. They will start dulling out and pick up a white cloudy hue if not hit with a little bit of clear. But then again, it does not really matter unless you are going to be entering play fields propped up beauty contests.
If you have not done so, you should wax the land that the targets set on. If you wax the land and the landing points on the targets, they will drop like rocks.
Quoted from Krupps4:I have Blitz wax that I use for playfields, but does that also work to clean the metal parts of the drop target mech? I apologize if these are basic questions but I was thinking I should clean the drop targets like Completist did.
For cleaning metal parts up:
Simple Green
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=simple+green&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Mean Green
( mean green is strong stuff. Use only with rubber gloves )
Zep Industrial Purple
( use rubber gloves. Wear a mask or hold your breath. )
Purple Power
For best action, let the parts soak for awhile.
Other cleaners will probably work just as well. These are the ones I am familiar with.
If you are wanting real shiny metal, get a buffer machine.
Quoted from Completist:I thought i had some spray clear on hand but all i had was Triple Thick
Triple Thick will work. All it is is clear with more solids in the mix.
Quoted from cottonm4:I bought the launch ramp used in The Beatles pin. Then I made an extension to the ball guide. It works like charm.
I have to drill 2 small holes in the shooter lane to attach the ramp.
It works very well.
Quoted from Pinballer73:Can you please post the part number and possibly a link to where it can be purchased?
Go here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-seawitch-fans-on-pinside?tu=cottonm4#op. that isolates my posts for you.
Start at post #541. The part number that you seek is in #545. My last post was #572. This all was happening before, or just after The Beatles was release and everybody was trying to visualize it in their heads.
If you have any questions, send me a PM. I had to go through a Stern distributor to get the ramp. I went with the distributor in Dallas.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Yes, but it’s tight!
Quoted from wrb1977:VERY tight...need a little luck on your side!
Get a Williams flipper with a narrow nose or that Williams Lightning flipper.
Quoted from Madmax541:Can that shot be made repeatable Williams flipper
From the lower right flipper, the ball will go around the orbit and either you whack it with the upper right flipper or let the ball come down to the lower left flipper.
All the narrow tipped Williams flipper does is gets out of your way for the lower right flipper shot.
Quoted from Madmax541:Are Williams flippers more fun than classic stern flipper with regards to game play?
I can't answer that. My Seawitch was not playable until I shopped it and at that time, I added those Pinball Life aluminum bats that are Williams style. I adjust them in their flipper bushings so that the front side of the flipper is on the same plane a Stern flipper would be on.
I have the aluminum bats on all my pins.
Quoted from Madmax541:Switched all flipper bats to Williams and dialed in game.
Now I can make
Lower left flipper around loop
Upper right flipper around loop
Sometimes make lower right flipper around loop @ 1/10 tries.
Seawitch is a lot more fun to play when able to make loop.
cottonm4 how do aluminum bats differ than plastic, greater transfer of energy to ball?
I cannot tell you that you will see any performance improvements. However, my opinion is they do not cost you any performance. I bought a pair because I thought they looked cool and also would not break. And if I get tired of looking at the aluminum, I can paint them any color I want.
Anyway, I have them on all my pins except for Munsters and Bog Game. Munsters will remain and unmodded original. As soon as I can buy some more, Big Game will get a set---at $15 each it will be---as soon as I can afford them
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Are you sure that is a CPR plastic? It looks drastically different then the one on their website.
I have a set of those blue plastics, too. They came with my Seawitch that I bought in 2016. I assumed that they are CPR. I am not aware of any other shop making Seawitch plastics. That don't look right next to the play field.
Where do you see two sets available, please?
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Some websites (like Marco) are selling a digitally printed version while others are selling the 8 color silkscreened version CPR did years ago. The CPR ones are more expensive but I’m really interested it which one looks better in person.
Here is the original Seawitch play field and original plastic.
Here is the replacement plastic.
Here are both sitting on top of a new play field. Pick your poison.
Here is what Marco shows in its ad. But is it what Marco will ship?
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Well now I’m leaning towards the Marco plastics. Maybe I’ll just fall on the sword and buy a set. Has any else purchased the Marco plastics?
Let us know what Marco sends out, please?
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Did the classic Stern pins really use these nails to keep the playfield plastics from sagging or is it a hack?
[quoted image]
Hack.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:I used to have that happen occasionally, but after my full rebuild it has yet to happen again. I’m not sure what I tweaked that could have made a difference or if it’s just dumb luck.
The behavior has its own page on pin wiki.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Ball_Trapped_on_Upper_Left_Flipper_Plastic
The difference between the ball getting trapped between the glass and the plastic is measured in thousandths of an inch. Your repro Greatwich play field could be just a few thousandths of an inch thinner than the original play field, which would place the play field and plastic farther away from the glass. This would allow extra space for the ball to just roll back onto the play field.
This thing with the ball jumping over the flipper onto the plastic happens on The Beatles, as well. But with the extra hight of the play field glass to allow room for all the toys, the ball just rolls back onto the play field. But the problem with The Beatles is the ball just rolls off of the plastic and into the left outlane. So a similar deflector, like the one installed on Seawitch, has to be installed to direct the ball back into the center of the play field.
Quoted from cottonm4:The behavior has its own page on pin wiki.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Ball_Trapped_on_Upper_Left_Flipper_Plastic
The difference between the ball getting trapped between the glass and the plastic is measured in thousandths of an inch. Your repro Greatwich play field could be just a few thousandths of an inch thinner than the original play field, which would place the play field and plastic farther away from the glass. This would allow extra space for the ball to just roll back onto the play field.
This thing with the ball jumping over the flipper onto the plastic happens on The Beatles, as well. But with the extra hight of the play field glass to allow room for all the toys, the ball just rolls back onto the play field. But the problem with The Beatles is the ball just rolls off of the plastic and into the left outlane. So a similar deflector, like the one installed on Seawitch, has to be installed to direct the ball back into the center of the play field.
Quoted from Madmax541:Interesting theory.
I thought original Production Seawitch has this problem also. Or is this only rebuild Seawitch?
The link is for the original Seawitch.
Quoted from slochar:I think I have the taller posts there anyway. People don't like to put them there because there's an unsightly gap between the ball guide and the plastic where light can shine through (first world problems, I know).
The taller posts will solve the problem but looks a little funky. One other thing that possibly be done is to shave a little bit of plastic from then tops of the short posts; You would need to be aware that you are limited on how much you take off the posts. You cannot have the plastic colliding with the tops of the drop targets.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:There should be the taller posts under the upper left flipper plastic already. The shorter ones go mostly in the rear (top) of the playfield.
I don't agree. I'm taking my cues from the two arch plastics at the top of the play field and, also, the pin-wiki article.
IMG_6877 (resized).jpgIMG_6875 (resized).jpg
The 2 arch plastics sit at level with the ball guides. They also directly contact and screw down onto the play field rails. If they were raised higher, there would be lots of light leaks from under the arch plastics.
Continuing in the same vein, if the arch plastics are sitting on short posts and nesting tightly on top of the ball guides, it stands to reason that the upper left flipper plastic would also be sitting on short posts and also screw down to the play field rails and nesting directly on top of the ball guide.
As for the pin-wiki article, if Stern had mounted the upper left flipper plastic on tall posts, it would not look right and there would have never been a reason for the pain-wiki article to have been written because there would have never been a problem.
The tall posts are for the drop target plastics.
I have an "S" style ball stop I was using for awhile that looks like your plastic "S" ball stop. Those work well for keeping the ball from getting locked between the plastic and the play field glass. But I wanted to try something different. Instead of making ball stop, I went with a piece of flat plastic that is placed under the upper left flipper plastic. It is flush with the flipper plastic and is almost invisible. And it works. No more trapped balls.
If you look carefully, you can see plastic sitting over the top of the flipper.
Try to imagine seeing the two arch plastics sitting down low on the ball guides. And now try to imagine the flipper plastic sitting at a higher level than the left arch plastic it is sitting next to.
This is all it is. It is just a thin, lightweight piece of plastic that has been cut to sit under the flipper plastic. This one is made of polycarbonate (Lexan .010" thick). You could probably go to Walmart and buy a toy for your kid and then cut the plastic window from the box and use that. This piece does not see high impact.
I added some blue tape so you can see it.
And it works. I have not had any trapped balls with using this. And if I did, I would just remake it and add a little bit extra plastic over the top of the flipper.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Well I'm not sure who is correct. My playfield had a lot of miles on it when I got it but some idiot sprayed it in clear without taking the posts off. For that reason I believe the posts were in the factory installed positions. Most of the time high impact drop target banks have tall posts behind them. That is why I feel the lower left bank of drops should have the taller posts. That bank takes a beating as does the middle one.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I agree with everything you have marked except for that flipper plastic.
I'm not saying Stern did not use tall posts for that flipper plastic. Stern could have done that. But if that were factory then the ball could never get lodged between the glass and the plastic and there never would have been a need for the pin-wiki article.
As a point of reference, I had a load of extra short, blue, Seawitch posts and installed them everywhere except for the slings and the spinner posts. Those targets are high impact, but the ball reverses off them without going airborne. I have not had a problem with using just the short posts.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:My right flippers just died. Everything else works but they won’t fire in game or in test.
Is this a transistor? I haven’t done this in a long while... what are you supposed to test? No spark at the button, seems like it’s not even getting any power to the leaf switch.
Check the flippers wiring. Look for a break in wire at all solder joints.
Sometimes broken wires are hard to see.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:I couldn’t find one on the lower, would a break at the upper right also affect both?
I had my Seawitch left upper flipper go dead. I looked all over for the problem. No luck. I ran a jumper wire from the lower flipper to the disabled upper flipper. That solved my problem. Several months later I am having to do something the the area of that upper flipper. Buried deep under all of the play field stacked on the platy field, way down low, one of the black wires that helped with correct flow, had broken at the solder joint and the wire sort of slid underneath the flipper base plate. I desoldered the broken wire and removed my jumper wire.
Now, to answer your question, the flipper power wire is the blue/white wire from the rectifier board. It feeds the upper flipper. And then a jump wire comes on down to add current to the lower flipper. But it was one of my other wires that broke.
If the b/w wire breaks above your left upper flipper it will take out both flippers. If the b/w wire breaks below the upper flipper then your lower flipper would also be affected.
Since both of your right hand flippers are dead, I would trace that b/w wire from the 1 amp fuse block under the play field to the flippers. If the lleft side is working then you do not have a transistor problem ( better electrican's than I are welcome to correct my thoughts process on this) .
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Cleaned the contacts and it’s good as new. They arc like crazy on my game and the switch stacks are BRAND NEW. Just rebuilt last year, I can’t believe they already pitted to the point of nearly severing the connection. Anyway to reduce to arcing?
Some of the Williams games had capacitors on the flipper switch to reduce arcing. You can buy those caps from Steve at PBR.
You can also buy replacement contacts for your EOS switches and other switches. Contacts are easy to replace. What I have not been able to locate are the larger contacts for the flipper switches. Flipper switches are expensive so I really would like to find some contacts for those.
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:I now have a new issue, the right slingshot is briefly shotgunning when the flipper spins. I have adjusted them quite a lot and it seems that plainly whenever the spinner closes the slingshot will fire. It’s very aggravating.
One of your sling switches is not adjusted correctly. The ball hits the rubber ring and bounces. The rubber ring will bounce around and push on the switch blade and it makes contact.
Put a piece of paper between one pair of switch blades. Then bounce a ball off the rubber and see what happens. If that solved your machine gunning, then switch the paper to the other switch and try again. Your machine gunning should return and you know what switch to need to adjust.
Quoted from gdonovan:Anyone have a spare Seawitch apron decal for sale?
Maybe
Quoted from gdonovan:Have some names, codes or colors? I'm fixing to do some rattle can work on my interim cabinet.
Not at the moment. I can't find my color chips.
What I do is go to stores that sell paint and drag home a stack of color chips. Then I try to match a chip to the paint. Once I have my match, I go shopping at the rattle can shelves.
Quoted from gdonovan:Does anyone know the official name for this part? I have run across them before and for the life on me can't find them again.
Tried "fiber stand off with solder tabs" and various other terms with no luck, I need two and already have the resistor in route.
[quoted image]
Can you use a fuse block? I know they are plastic.....
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=32
Or a terminal block?
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Circuit-Terminal/dp/B000A770HO/ref=sr_1_4
Quoted from gdonovan:Well I don't have an original cabinet so that is problematic.
I do have a cabinet though
I'll have to look for my color chips. I saw them a couple of weeks ago
Quoted from gdonovan:Harness work has commenced!
Kudos to the wife unit separating a Last Action Hero harness into various colors.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Shawn at Third Coast Pinball does make the play field harness for Seawitch. It all depends of what your time is worth.
Quoted from rstrunks:Thanks for the reply. I have changed them out already with no effect.
OK. Here come Joe Shadetree. When nothing else works.......
Make a jumper wire with a contact pin crimped on. Install an alligator clip.
** Get your Y-R wire out of the picture.
Remove the Y-R wire at connector A4J2-5. Install your jumper wire. This will disable all 8 switches on row ST4
Since the left outlane is all on its lonesome touch your alligator clip of the left outlane switch and see if that gets it to working. If it gets that switch to work, then possibly something is wrong with your Y-R wire. ??
Next, do the same for the other three switches by touching the right inlane Y-R wire at the right outlane.
If this leaves you still searching, then repeat the above at A4J2-2 B-W wire for r/h slingshot.
And you can also do this for the A4J2-1 W-R wire.
It may or it may not help you, but since you have tried everything else, why not?
I did something similar awhile back. It did not isolate my problem but it got me to looking around and found I had a pinched wire under a piece of metal.
All 4 of your switches that are having problems are hooked to the Y-R wire. I would look at all solder joints at all of the switch connections on the Y-R wire. And, as mentioned above, isolate the Y-R wire by using a jumper.
No promises.
Quoted from gdonovan:If someone has a free moment I could use 3 good pictures showing the wiring for the three lamps in front of the drop targets.
I have my wiring bundled up so not sure if this will help you.
Lower left 3-place drop assy.
Middle 4-place drop.
Top drop.
If you need, I can cut some tie wraps. Or I can tell you which wire colors you are looking at.
Quoted from cottonm4:I have my wiring bundled up so not sure if this will help you.
[quoted image]
Lower left 3-place drop assy.
[quoted image]
Middle 4-place drop.
[quoted image]
Top drop.
[quoted image]
If you need, I can cut some tie wraps. Or I can tell you which wire colors you are looking at.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Had this on my phone. Does it help?
[quoted image]
Quoted from gdonovan:When I get off work I'll check! It will certainly narrow down the locations and color codes I have to go through.
I don't know if this will be confusing or if it will help. But I will try to keep you from getting confused with the color codes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 3 lines high lighted in blue are lower 3-place drop target.
The 10,000 target is the pink light in front of the target assy. ........ Color Blu-White. (mine is grey)
The increase (bottom) is big white X in front of the drop...........................White/ Yellow
B-1 is the #1 light in front of the drop.....................................................Black/ Yellow. (mine is BLK-White)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 lines hi lighted in pink
Increase (middle) .............Big white X...................................................................Pur-B
10,000 pink light..................................................................................................R-Blu (mine is blk/blu)
B-2 is the #2 light................................................................................................Grey. ( mine is BLK-Red)
-----------------------------------------------------------
3 lines in green
Increase........................Big White X.....................................................................O-BLK
B-3 #3 light .....................................................................................................Pur-Blu (mine is BRN-BLK )
10,000 pink light..................................................................................................Blu-WHT (mine is O-G)
--------------------------------------------------------
Sterns drawings are sloppy and poorly written. There is a lack of consistency. Sometimes I feel Stern delegated the drawing work to its junior engineers. When you place a Stern drawing next to a Bally drawing, Stern's slop job is readily apparent.
I ran into this wiring color mis-match from the drawing when I restored my Big Game. IIRC, I had 4 wires on my BG that did not match drawing. For example, if the drawing called for Red-white I would find purple-white. I figure Stern's parts department would run out of a particular color of wire and start substituting different wire colors in an effort to keep the assy. line moving.
Hope I do not completely confuse you.
Quoted from Quench:Someone recently who did a playfield swap had a similar spinner issue causing ghosting in their switch matrix. They accidentally had a lamp socket touching a T-nut which their spinner post was screwed to and through the spinner frame electrically connected to the spinner switch.
That was me. But once I got that fixed, I ran into a drop target that gave me fits. I swapped drops and my last problem went away. I have not yet looked at that set of switches to see what was/is wrong.
Quoted from gdonovan:Anyone have a nice scan of the spinner? If not I'll just whip something up in Photoshop.
I can scan you one.
I'll try for later today.
Quoted from gdonovan:Only issue I can think of is I'd have to check dimensions as I'm not using a Stern spinner.
The spinners, at least Bally, are the same as the stern spinners. The one you showed pics of with the red diamond shape will work fine. Tractor Doc makes some good ones.
I'll scan mine for you if you want, but the one you can buy is the way to go.
Quoted from skink91:What is the latest on possible avenues for future Seawitch repro pf availability?
Find someone who wants to sell their Greatwich Seawitch play field. Nobody is doing any talking.
Quoted from Chalkey:Missed the opportunity for a deflector.
Get a thin piece of clear plastic. I like polycarbonate (lexan) but PETG will work, too. I would not recommend plexiglass; The arcrylic likes to crack.
Cut the plastic to the play field plastic profile and set it underneath.
If you want, you could make your cut so that the clear plastic sits a little further forward of the flipper, but the cut I have has only let me down one time.
I still have my aluminum deflector I made before I went with the plastic. I'd let it go for $20.00 plus shipping.
Quoted from ckcsm:I recently picked up a Seawitch and started shopping it, replaced all the drop targets and want to replace the 4 stationary target faces, the ones I got from PBR are blue and the original are black.
I think the blue matches but was wondering if the black ones are correct and if there available.
[quoted image]
Black is the correct color. Other than the blue stars from PBR, I don't know where you will get any with stars, of any color, on. Use the blue, if you wish. No one will ever notice. And no one will care.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Can somebody confirm that Seawitch uses the backglass lockbar without tabs? My game had the “without” version when I purchased it but have no clue if it was the correct one or not. I do have it working now but just wanted to make just I was using the correct assembly.
Seawitch uses the lock bar without the tabs. The "tabs" are on the channel that fits to the top of the back glass.
Quoted from PeteLawtPin:Topic2: Tips on removing armor? Putty knife? And what happens to the glass track once removed?
Could you be a little more specific, please?
Quoted from zapp:They are blue, I think they have lost some color
Mine is like yours. Install blue LED's and they will light up blue.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Still getting airballs unfortunately. With deflectors no longer being available, what's my next step?
Looking good. Next time you come down to Flashball's, get with me. I have some plastic laying around. We can make you a defector.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Think I may try changing GI over to cool white to see how I like that
I lean toward cool white GI for blue play field and warm white for green play field. With my Seawitch, I went with these ice blue LEDs. I like the effect.
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/1smd-non-ghosting
I cannot get LEDs for photograph all that well, but the blue overtones really make the play filed pop. Come down and see it.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:I keep trying to come up with a reason for you to come visit Tecumseh but man.. there's not much here lol
Well, I know a guy up there who has:
Gorgar
LAH
Mata Hari
TRON
Taxi
LOTR
Metallica
High Speed
Galaxy
BASEBALL ! Slugfest
Bad Cats
BK2K
WCS
and Roy Clark
If these are all playing well, it would be worth the trip.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:I'm sure my pitch is......high. I've got it slammed in the front and pretty sure it's jacked up most/all of the way in the back. Idk, I'll check when I'm home. I just figured it would be best set up aggressive. I can't stand when games play slow and lazy...
It easier to target the orbit shots if you do not set up too steep. I think I was at 6% slope and backed it off to 5.5 % and the orbits were a little easier. Play around with it.
But I like steep. I have Big Game at 6.5% and that is perfect for BG.
Quoted from PeteLawtPin:OK so what about those lights on you pop bumpers. What lighting system did you go with for those outside rings to shine?
LOVE it.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:https://www.pinballlife.com/britecaps-evo-pop-bumper-lighting.html
Evos are LIFE. I've got them in my Black Knight 2000, Taxi, High Speed, Seawitch, and World Cup Soccer. They're outstanding.
They are fantastic.
Here is mine on Star Gazer. White caps and white EVOs.
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 7.43.00 PM (resized).jpg
And on my Catacomb. Again, these are white EVOs. I tried yellow EVOs and they stank. They turned everything a ghastly shade of orange.
Get your self some of these Data East style 555 sockets from Pinball Life and you are good to go.
https://www.pinballlife.com/pop-bumper-lamp-socket-with-centering-bracket.html
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:I used these oil based Sherman Williams paint colors and was pleaded with my choices.[quoted image]
Those colors looks nice. Do you have color codes?
Quoted from Rcarpen22:I’d take that! I haven’t cracked a million yet and I’ve only been close once.
Thanks! I actually just read up on this a few days ago. Now I spend all my time trying to clear the drops in order, but still having trouble with the upper bank. I think the most times I’ve cleared all banks with one ball is 3. That got me to about 750,000. Lack of talent is my biggest issue
Seawitch, IMO, is one of the more forgiving of the classic Sterns to play. Keep at it. You will get better. And if you don't get better you can still have a good time since the quarters are "free".
Quoted from mof:Crazy question.
Where do I find the lamp matrix diagram?
Here -- but why is it not with the actual handbook???
http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/Tech_Charts/Stern_Seawitch_Tech_Chart.pdf
I'm not sure the question you are asking.
Here is what is on IDPB.org. I would have to get my original manual out to compare but I think all of the pages are here.
For the most part, this set is crisp and readable.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2089/Stern_1980_Seawitch_schematics.pdf.
Quoted from mof:manual and schematics.
Neither has a lamp matrix.
I'm confused. This is what I have used to wire up my lamps. What else is needed?
Quoted from FantasticPinball:Today was a pretty good day. We clearcoat batches of 5 based on the size of the spray booth.
Fantastic!
[quoted image]
What brand are you using for clear coat?
How many coats are you laying down?
Quoted from FantasticPinball:the clear is capped with a ceramic clear as the 7th coat.
What, pray tell, is ceramic clear? I read ceramic clear this and ceramic clear that, but cannot locate any info saying what ceramic clear is.
Quoted from SMP14:Hello I have a galaxy wire harness for the displays+head., For my frankensteined Seawitch. I am adding the pin7 on J1(mpu) add a wire and daisy chain it to 9 pin on 7 digit displays for proper 7 digits. Can someone send me good pictures of the back of the backbox headboard to look at the wiring please? And, I dont know where these 2 cube molex that come from the wiring of the playfield get connected to(see pic)??
Thanks
Stephen
-Edit I found where the wires go to the backbox but I still can't figure out the ice cube molex from the playfield thanks
[quoted image]
My Seawitch has 2 black Molex connectors and 2 white Molex connectors. The problem is the idiots at Stern wired both connector sets up the same way, meaning it is possible to cross plug them. I see why Stern did what it did, but there is a better way.
Onward.
You have one Molex connector ( by my left finger ) and the other Molex (by my thumb).
The one by my finger has some gray wires and an orange wire; This connector is for the back box speciality lights such as High Score, Match, Game Over, etc.
The one by my thumb feeds wiring up to connector J-2 on the SDU.
Check out my restored Seawitch apron. Actually, this apron started out as a green and yellow Hot Hand apron and a pinsider with vinyl print capabilities did this for me.
I had a can of a custom mix of blue paint made up and then the vinyl was added over the top.
It is about as good as you will get without having silk screen capabilities.
Quoted from gdonovan:Here is a video showing how to install.
OK. You have outed yourself. Pinsiders, gdonovan is who did the Seawitch resto for me. Fantastic work !
Here is the restored apron pictured on top to compare to my OG Seawitch apron on bottom. I was lucky that my paint supplier got a very good match on the apron blue. Gdonavon's dark blue graphics is just a little bit darker than original but it is also very close to original.
There is only one flaw with his work that I can see. It is so minor. You will see it or you won't.
Short of having someone step up and actually start silk screening repro Stern aprons, this is the way to go.
Using gdonovan's method will also let me make/restore a Quicksilver apron and a Star Gazer apron.
Good stuff !!
I posted this on the Stern Electronics thread but it belongs here.
I cooked up something for Seawitch. Have a look.
I have some .125 polycarbonate on hand and the idea just hit me this afternoon. So I went to work.
I cut the poly to match the upper left orbit plastic. I modded a plastic post and attached it to the poly.
I have been playing Seawitch hard this afternoon. This mod works great. There is a little more at the link.
ba9bee2a18d5f11c66433488e882daa7d16c19c6 (resized).jpg
See post #7467
Quoted from koji:I've been ogling over it for a while.. prob regret not getting it.. just not sure if I'm rich enough, or if my example is poor enough. :/.
Ahh..
After my Nine Ball, I will be putting my Fantasic! Seawitch play field together. I found a buyer for my Greatwich Seawitch play field so I could get this one. It is beautiful. The colors are stunning. If you think you will regret not getting it, then you know what you gotta do.
Live on a diet of hot dogs for 3-4 weeks
Quoted from koji:Any chance of getting any video of the gameplay after the adjustment?
Thank you-
I'm not set up to do video currently. I will need a friend to come over and help with camera duty when he gets some free time. I would like to make a movie of this; Thanks for asking. Hopefully in just a few days.
In the meantime, this is a righteous mod for Seawitch. You can make it for a few dollars. It is not permanent if you don't like it.
The difference in game play is a lot, IMO. For the first time, I have made two 3-Loop left hand orbits. And I have too many 2-loop left orbits to count. It makes the orbit accessible.
Quoted from SR230CC:Yes, I bought CPR Plastics and they are too green, I would buy another set that match better.
I have a set of those plastics with the green in them. Not a fan of them.
Quoted from SR230CC:I did this today, and I can make the loop a little easier from the right flippers. Mini Post with 1" rubber I think. When I originally did the post location I cheated it in a little than what was marked. [quoted image]
Take the next step. Replace your Seawitch J-27-1700 sling shot coils with a pair of J-26-1200 sling coils used on the MPU-100 pins. This will really spice things up. I know some do not like the fast zig-zag action as the slings throw the ball back and forth, but I like the extra speed and momentum the smaller coils provide.
Quoted from SR230CC:Anyone try modern flipper bats on this game? Would it help for making loops, or is this cheating?
I installed some of those aluminum flippers bats that Pinball Life was selling for awhile. They are cut the the Williams profile with the narrow nose. I did not have Seawitch for very long before I installed these bats so I cannot give you a comparison either.
I guess I am not a purist and if a mod is easily reversible I don't worry about it. I don't consider it cheating: My house my rules. If it is something that allows the game to play "better" and faster, I am onboard since I'm not raking quarters.
Flipper bats are a cheap mod to try. Give them a try. The Williams bats open up both sides of the orbit.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Has anyone ever tried and been successful with lighting up more of the backglass? It drives me bonkers that half of it just doesn't have bulbs behind it because it's such wonderful art. Just feels like it could (and should) be better.
I'm still mixed on whether or not I want to try to open the orbits any. Part of what makes the game great for me is that those loops are a nightmare to make. It's supposed to be nasty -- and it is.
You can use some of the Martrix lights at Comet. I currently have my Seawitch back glass lit up with them. They are plug n play.
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/lighting-strips
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/matrix-extension-wires
Try my mod for the orbit. It's cheap and easily reversible. Or you can just remove the left orbit plastic, remove the lowest post, and remove the GI light and place a piece of tape over the bulb socket. This will be a little more open than my mod because I have the GI socket blocked with a post---which you would not have.
Or just slide on down here and play mine. I'm planning to have all the guys over for a pin party here pretty quick.
Quoted from mikeflan:Hey gang-
Having an issue with my Seawitch. This is a little complicated so here goes:
1) Putting in a coin does not give a credit.
2) In switch test, dropping a coin does activate the correct coin credit switch (Switch 3 I believe)
3) Swapped out another PIA chip in U10 as a shot in the dark: no change.
4) Switched out the MPU with another and the same thing.
Any ideas? Problem came out of nowhere. Would lead me to think it is a wiring issue but I have no idea where to start. In the schematics I noted that one of the coin switches is supposed to have a diode and none of mine have one. But I checked another Seawitch I have and it doesn't have diodes on any of the coin switches either.
Thanks for any info.
Mike
OK, Joe Shadetree, I see you also own a Nine Ball. Beyond thinking that your problem is electronic, the only troubleshooting guide I can offer is one you have already started. Parts swapping; Or when parts become troubleshooting tools.
* Since swapping the MPU offered no change try swapping the SDU.
* Did you swap your Seawitch ROMS into the replacement MPU? Did you reset the DIP switches.
* Disconnect and reconnect all of your wiring connectors.
*If that offers no change, try swapping the rectifier/transformer.
* Disconnect the sound board maybe?
* Disconnect and reconnect all of the LDA connectors.
These are wild ass guesses, I admit. But since you are asking...
I am dealing with an MPU problem on one of my Sterns. Swapping MPUs did not solve the problem and then the (electronic) problem went away on its own but left a different electronic problem that has me scratching my head. I feel for you.
Quoted from mof:This sounds brilliant, can you share more of your experience, and what pins you've tried this on. Are you saying it's what Stern moved to after seawitch? the smaller coils?
All of the Stern MPU-100 pins in IPDB.org, all of the MPU-100 pins use the J-26-1200 solenoids at the slings. And all have J-26-1200 pop solenoids.
======================================================
As you can see, Stern's sling coils are all over the place. Star Gazer was a surprise.
Big Game.................pops.....................................slings
..............................J-26-1200..............................J-26-1500
Star Gazer...............J-26-1200...............................J-26-1200
Meteor....................J-26-1200...............................J-26-1700
Nine Ball.................J-26-1200.............................. J-26-1600
Quicksilver..............J-26-1200...............................J-26-1500
Seawitch.................J-26-1200...............................J-26-1700
Catacomb................J-26-1200...............................J-26-1500
:
Big Game: I have removed 100 wraps of wire from pops and slings.
Catacomb: I have removed 100 wraps of wire from pops and slings.
With Seawitch I have left the pops alone and swapped the slings to J-26-1200 solenoids. I like the fast zig-zag sling action the stronger pops provide and plan on being at this level of aggressive performance on Big Game and Catacomb. But there are some players who don't like this fast zig-zag action. Pick your poison.
If you are interested, I have made two videos of Seawitch.
The first video is Seawitch using the smaller 16B-3 transformer. I would imagine the sling performance would match the performance of the MPU-100 Sterns using the J-26-1200 sling solenoid.
The 2nd video is the same Seawitch, except the 16B-3 transformer has been replaced with the original, larger 16B-6 transformer. The play performance is much snappier. Whether you can see this by watching the two videos depends on your eyesight, I suppose.
post #7660
Quoted from SR230CC:I also installed modern flippers.
Those are Williams, Data East, and new Stern style flippers.
Quoted from koji:I think the Stern are actually less wide than bally?
Classic Stern flippers are in the middle. Between the wide Bally flippers and the thin Williams style.
Quoted from koji:Never seen anyone retrofit the tombstones on Seawitch. I figured the new style was better for sweeping?
The tombstones and the hooded drop targets are the same size. The difference in width that you see is just part of the hood extending over to the side. You can sand the hood off and have a tombstone.
Quoted from koji:Yeah, I guess I was thinking maybe the ball made some contact with the hood.. but on consideration, it must hit below.
The silver ball measures 1 1/16" diameter. The halfway point of 1/2" inch is your contact area.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Some plastics, a flipper, and toss 'er in any ol Bally/Stern cab and you're in there!
A Bally cab will work. A Bally back box is different and back glasses will not interchange .
Quoted from robx46:1) balls smacking glass alot at middle drop bank. Any suggestions?
A few have mentioned they have this problem. I don't know their solutions.
Quoted from robx46:2) that plunger lane divider flap thing seems flimsy & it often affects my loop shots as the ball hits it and the flap kinda absorbs it in. Do they make sturdier flap?
You can buy a replacement from Cliffy, the guy who makes those Cliffy protectors. The flap is a little bit longer. I have one. I found it made little difference in the shots.
A couple here have made their own custom flaps but I don't know if they ever made any to sell.
I bought the launch ramp Stern used in Beatles and retrofitted it to my Seawitch. It help a little bit. But is not a big game changer. I'm not sorry I did it but not sure if I would do it again.
Quoted from robx46:3) any other suggestions on what I can do to make it play any better? Also has anyone ever actually made that shot under the upper left flipper on purpose by shooting it? That's an insanely tight shot!
I made this mod a couple of months ago. It has helped with improving the left orbit shot. See post #1331
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-seawitch-fans-on-pinside?tu=cottonm4#op
EDIT: One other thing you can do to help with shooting the left orbit is to install a Williams style flipper with its narrow nose.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Yes. I bought the yellow.
Mine airballs a LOT from that upper left flipper. If yours doesn't then you probably don't need it. I've played around with various coils and resistors and it doesn't seem to matter in my game. The deflector 100% prevents the dumb left drain.
Your play field must be sitting 1/8 inch or so lower in your cabinet. This gives your ball clearance to roll over the top of the plastic.
The more common problem is for the ball to get stuck between the glass and the plastic.
Quoted from slochar:I wonder if the cabinet hangers are all installed in the correct place but the playfields that have the stiffeners raise it up enough to not have this issue.
I've got one ball stuck in over fifteen years there. I also weakened that flipper by making the eos open super early.
Both of the cabs on my Dragonfist and Catacomb has a strange install on the board that supports the play field when you need to stand it on end. I'll post a picture tomorrow to illustrate what I am talking about but it is a real chore to get these 2 play fields back into position.
One possibility is that the two "Z" bracket play field supports at the back end are set 1/8" or so lower. And extra 1/8" clearance is all I think that is needed to allow the ball to pass. And the back legs would need readjusted 1/8" higher to compensate.
The stiffeners would have to be grossly mis-located to interfere with the "z" supports.
For the air ball deflectors there is "S" bracket option. I have a different style of air ball blocker on my Seawitch. But I am thinking of trying something else.
There has been a couple instances where all I had in plastics posts were the tall 1 3/16" posts. I took a couple of tall posts and sanded 1/8" of the top to make a short post. I could take 1/8" off of the posts for this plastic and let the plastic set down a little lower. I am going to try this tomorrow and see if it works .
Quoted from Ollulanus:Can someone with an original paint job post a pic of the side of the head? Repainting mine, pimp stencils have a base color (light blue) stripe at the front by the frame. Swear mine didn't, but already sanded down, and the photos I'm finding all look like repaint jobs.
This is standard.
Quoted from MasterBlaster:Joining the club soon! Seawitch is en route and I should have it next week. I’ve not played Seawitch but I’ve played Beatles enough to know that I’ll love the playfield layout. Plus, those sweet, sweet 80s sounds…Like a big stick o’ buttah.
I’ll play this for awhile before tinkering but ultimately I’d like to give it a new playfield. I put my info in the waitlist page on CPR, but if anyone knows of a replacement playfield floating around the pinverse then let me know. Looking forward to chatting it up with you all!
I just sent you a PM.
Quoted from MasterBlaster:Joining the club soon! Seawitch is en route and I should have it next week. I’ve not played Seawitch but I’ve played Beatles enough to know that I’ll love the playfield layout. Plus, those sweet, sweet 80s sounds…Like a big stick o’ buttah.
I’ll play this for awhile before tinkering but ultimately I’d like to give it a new playfield. I put my info in the waitlist page on CPR, but if anyone knows of a replacement playfield floating around the pinverse then let me know. Looking forward to chatting it up with you all!
While Beatles is based on the Seawitch play field, those two games do not play the same way at all.
Quoted from MasterBlaster:Ordered the S deflector from mad dog yesterday. The game has a deflector on it, but it must be an older design or something…not nearly as elegant-looking as the one I ordered. I’ve looked through the info for the Riptide shot and I’m willing to do that, but I’m not sure I understand it completely…need to dig into that a little more.
I’m okay with a little ‘charm’ in a pinball machine. Even if this was a game alleged to be buttery smooth, I wouldn’t expect anything smooth from a 33-year-old machine. I’m good with something old school to complement my newer stuff.
I got your PM. You have my phone number. Come by and play my Seawitch. It's fast. So is my Big Game. And Catacomb.
Quoted from aeonblack:Just joined the club as well! Game is a project that came with a NIB playfield, backglass and plastics from CPR. Currently I know the rectifier board is shot and a few of the drops are busted, but I've got all the replacement stuff on order now for those.
The plan is to remove and clean the drop banks, put in new targets and re-install onto old pf, replace the rectifier board and see if I have any other issues. If I don't have any other board issues I figure I can probably swap the game to the new pf over a weekend. I've never replaced a rectifier board, so that should be interesting, but probably not as interesting as all the sparks and smoke that board made when I turned it on lol
I would encourage you to get it running and play it for a little bit and check it out. And then tear it down.
Experimenting with Seawitch.
You can see the white along the edge of the orbit.
Here is the other side.
I pulled the orbit back a little bit. You can see the screw in a new hole I had to drill. To the right and up from this screw you can see the old hole for an idea of how much I had to move the guide.
In this pic, to the left of where I drilled the new hole for the bracket, I also have backed the orbit with a skinny post for the plastic. Actually, that is the factory position for that post. I just used it for a convenient back stop for the guide.
In this pic ( I have two broken guide brackets) you can see a white rubber ring I have been using for several years to work around the broken bracket. Normally. all you would see is the two rivets in the ball guide hiding the white ring. So, to get this extra "space" added to the orbit the ball guide is only pulled back about 1/2".
In trying to open up the orbit to make it easier to make, I thought I would give this a try.
How does it work?
I have managed to make 2 orbits twice and 3 orbits once. But to get the 3-orbit shot I had to move the angle of attack on my upper right flipper a little more forward.
The challenge is that after the 2nd orbit the the ball comes around so incredibly fast that I am having trouble getting a good lead on the ball and wind up hitting it late.
I am going to keep like this for awhile and see if I can improve on the orbit shots. If it does not work out I'll put it back the way it was.
This is my original worn out play field so I am experimenting before I swap in the new Fantastic Pinball play field.
The plastic does not need to be modded. And I can replace that rubber ring with a post so orbit guide itself needs no modification. The only thing that looks amiss is the bit of white paint that is now showing. It is not noticeable when playing.
Quoted from joetechbob:I have a mod I'm testing out that's a long these lines but takes it a bit further. Best I've done is 5 loops. You have to eliminate the spring steel flap to have any hope of being consistent. I've also got it to where I'm able to hit the left orbit much more easily with lower right flipper. Still hard, but not frustratingly so.
Let me know if you're interested in trying it out.
I got rid of the flap gate when Beatles came out and modded my Seawitch launch with a Beatles launch ramp. I'm interested. Show me what you have, please.
Quoted from joetechbob:So I designed a couple of 3d printed parts, one being the equivalent of the metal ramp you installed, but set up to only require the original mounts. The other part acts as a guard for the ball guide and exposed switch. I also have a plug for the light socket hole.
I then designed a decal to cover up the unfinished area and a truncated plastic. For the plastic, I bought a laser cutter and a photo quality printer, but still need to complete that aspect. For now, I just have a printed mock up in place.
If you're interested, I could send you a set to test.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]
It looks interesting. I am going to ask for a favor for my old tired eyes. Would you please turn off the machine lights and turn on the house lights so I can better see the contrast in the different parts.
Thanks.
Quoted from joetechbob:House lights are on in those pics
PM me if there's a specific aspect you're interested in.
i have figured out your launch ramp, but can you show a pic from the other angle to show what you did in front of it?
Thanks.
Quoted from joetechbob:[quoted image]
I like this. Yours is cleaner than my setup. I have sent you a PM.
Quoted from Ollulanus:Repopulating the topside and just realized some of the star posts are slightly taller than others - basically identical posts other than the top bit being a bit longer, so didn't notice what came from where taking them off. Actually didn't even notice until I had them all on and was check plastic fits, lol.
Which go where? I'm guessing the talls came from around the pop circle and middle drops maybe?
Slingshots need the taller posts for clearance with the sling kicker arm.
The spinner needs the tall posts.
The outboard arch/orbit plastics need short posts so you do not have light leaks around the orbit ball guide
The inboard orbit plastics can be long or short. For continuity with the outboard plastics , i went with short posts.
For the "triangle" piece of plastic on the shooter lane inner rail, you can use either, but IMO, the shorts look better.
The inner 4-target bank, you can use either.
NOTE: The drop targets work fine with either short posts or long posts.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:We were debating this issue a couple years ago. Check out this post. I believe this is factory correct.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-seawitch-fans-on-pinside/page/23#post-6367673
I went and checked your link. I am borrowing your picture. I agree with all of your short posts placement.
But I went with short posts on the upper left flipper plastic because I want it to match the short posts you have around the orbit. I have my upper left flipper taken care of with regards to dealing with balls getting caught on top the plastic.
Quoted from Ollulanus:Man, I love when someone saves my lazy ass the trouble of clicking a link and researching Thanks man, you too cotton.
It is so refreshing when a lazy ass calls himself self out
Quoted from Ollulanus:Yup, those plastics are original and fortunately pretty minty. Your colors are spot on. Can't wait to flip it.
Speaking of colors, I said screw tradition on the cab and did it in metallics. Was a bit of a PITA, but love the way it turned out. Couple more coats of clear for posterity and I'll get her put back together.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I think your choice of metallics looks great !
Quoted from Ollulanus:Well, I've still got a fair bit of work to do fixing small stuff and dialing everything in, but really happy with how this came out. Pics don't do the metallics justice, and the powder is metallic with a slight irridescense. Got some lights out, need to adjust the flippers and figure out why one of the pops and slings aren't firing, but booted up and played fine. Pretty anxiety inducing flipping it on that first time after complete disassembly and playfield swap.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
It looks nice. But why the zipper tube on the wiring?
Quoted from aeonblack:but I'm probably going to completely replace the pops, they barely trigger and are pretty weak when they do.
Make sure you have your pop switches adjusted optimally. If you have installed the Data East style of pops in is easy; If you have to adjust them on the play field, not so much.
Try to set the pop switches to where they did not make contact right to the end of the skirt pointer movement. You want that ball going all the way to the center before it gets kicked out. If the switches contact too soon you will get weak hits.
I'll counter what I just said by saying if there is not room for ball travel before it hits the skirt, you may have to close the switches a little bit. But that is not a problem on Seawitch. Gap those switches as wide as you can.
Seawitch uses those 1700 coils. Get some 1200s like Star Gazer on there to spice your slings up.
Quoted from aeonblack:I actually came across these, which is I assume what you are talking about: https://www.pinballlife.com/desega-pop-bumper-assembly.html
You can get those with the AE-26-1200 coils so that might just be the route I go, certainly would save me some time.
Those are what I am talking about. If you wire them up using Molex connectors or "Z" connectors, you can remove them from the play field and adjust them on the bench.
One other item to consider is that that on some of the Stern play fields, the holes for the pops might be a bit too small. One way to correct for that is to grind some of the circumference of the pop housing away. The other way to overcome this problem is to get a drum sander and sand a few thousandths of material from the hole.
Quoted from Ollulanus:I just finished a playfield swap; the short version is you need the tall ones at the slings, short ones at the edge plastics to match the rail height - everywhere else either will work. There's an image mapping the usual positions of tall/short earlier in the thread (might be what you're referring to here). Usually it's talls around that left target bank plastic too, only reason I can figure is it might reduce airballs over there which some say are a problem.
Like you, long posts on the slings. Short everywhere else, except for the spinner.
So, longs on the slings, and longs on the spinner. And short everywhere else.
Quoted from Quench:The only reference I've seen was posted by Mad_Dog_Coin_Op
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-seawitch-fans-on-pinside/page/23#post-6367673
My game has most of the plastic posts in the wrong positions and I've been meaning to see if Mad_Dog_Coin_Op list matches the number and sizes I have but haven't had time.
here is Mad Dog's picture.
Quoted from mikeflan:Thanks! I was confused since the game I have has finned posts, which I didn't think was right.
Here are the Stern faceted posts. In dark blue. Longs and shorts.
Quoted from Methos:Does anybody have the small plastic that sits on top of the 4 bank drops in the middle of the PF? A used one is fine as well. Thanks.
I could make you one. It would look OK. Not the best, but OK. Better than nothing. Send me a PM if you have no luck finding one.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Mantis Metal flat rails
I have to ask. What are Mantis flat rails?
Quoted from tomtest:Anyone have the 6" long metal flap in the shooter lane, looks like mine is chrome plated and the chrome is peeling off.
Cliffy makes them.
http://www.passionforpinball.com/wip.htm
About halfway down the page.
Quoted from Ollulanus:I'd dig just lit waves, but can't really get into putting the name up there, right above the name on the backglass. Not sure why everyone does that, other than it's pretty simple to make happen. Lum Topper? Does look nice, redundancy aside.
Here is my topper. I will be applying finish that will make her look chrome plated. Ignore the Nine Ball back glass that is in temporary "storage".
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Wichita, KS