My contribution to the "Plastics of many Colors" discussion.

Out of curiosity I dug out the Seawitch set I acquired from CPR this past fall. I always have been and will continue to be a supporter of CPR, but on this instance I was a bit disappointed with what I saw. Where the original plastic had a light blue area the CPR version has a queasy looking blue-green color. I placed the plastics over my Greatwich playfield (early "prototype" production with white arrow inserts ).

5J5A7079 (resized).JPG

I swapped out the upper left corner with my original to better showcase the color difference.

5J5A7080 (resized).JPG

I think I know what my wife was getting at now when I had dressed myself to go out for the night some time ago -- I had a combination of shirts on that I thought were acceptable because they were both versions of green (vs. a green and pink shirt). The wife just looked at me, shook her head, and said no. That is about how I feel looking at these plastics on the playfield.

I don't know if they were trying to incorporate some green that is more prominent in the lower playfield area, but I'd prefer the blue that Cotton has on his set over this green color. I may have to add a plastic set to my Marco order to see what I get. . . I hope they do not receive their supply from CPR!

As a side note, if anyone is interested in seeing the progress on my Seawitch project you can see it here (don't worry about the Paragon part.):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/project-paragon-breathing-life-back-into-the-beast/page/18#post-6078452

I'm moving slow and still in the cabinet painting stage, but I hope to have a nice looking game in the end.

There is a Seawitch likely printed with 4 Star Gazer at the printer. The tempered glass blanks went in Friday afternoon. I print on demand, & 4 Star Gazer were needed ASAP. I had problems with some blanks during Covid since one Canadian Plant shut down a line for 4 months.

Marcos buy their glass from either Greatwichjohn or Cpr. I’d buy from Greatwichjohn first, and cpr second. I would buy this title from Bgresto since I can buy off the shelf from the other two vendors, and a Bgresto order will take 2-6 months to deliver.

Just received a PM from John. He is going to hook me up.

Can somebody please share a few photos of the backglass lock bar assembly. I feel I'm missing parts or it is the wrong bar in my game. It works but doesn't lock the backglass. Thanks in advance.

16154314104501718043173046719045 (resized).jpg

16154314411533109891242923758013 (resized).jpg

16154314806525673225888832710604 (resized).jpg

Your back glass top rail has to have two tabs sticking out the back of it.

I figured that was it. Got a photo or a part source handy?

Did the classic Stern pins really use these nails to keep the playfield plastics from sagging or is it a hack?

20210315_185124 (resized).jpg

Hack.

Hi guys, joined the club!!

I’m missing a few parts, can you please help out

The angle bar in the 4 bank target mech, and the 2 connector pins, if anyone has a lead please let me know, glad to be here!!!

043A6965-FA8C-4BCE-BBD4-69FB10EDC07C (resized).jpeg

07506E5E-A96D-44D7-8B51-A678D01596E5 (resized).jpeg

62C93C62-BABB-46BB-AE8E-F17AF7CB9430 (resized).jpeg

62D39C59-17A9-48FA-AF4D-1D926C6988FC (resized).jpeg

8126BD45-F122-4028-A03A-DAA88920716A (resized).jpeg

How were the playfield plastics secured by the factory? I have seen it done several ways and wanted to know which one is factory. I’ve seen the following:

Hollow chrome acorn push nuts (same type used on old System 1 and 80 Gottliebs)
Metal acorn nuts
Nylon acorn nuts
Post rubbers (same type as used on early Bally)
Lock nuts

Which one is correct? Thanks in advance.

I've just about finished reworking and repainting my Seawitch Cabinet with the help of PinballPimp 's Stencils.

My darker blue may be a bit more bold than the original (or maybe my original was faded!) but I think the end result looks sharp.

5J5A7101 (resized).JPG 5J5A7105 (resized).JPG 5J5A7104 (resized).JPG 5J5A7123 (resized).JPG

5J5A7126 (resized).JPG 5J5A7125 (resized).JPG

outside looks nice! the inside is an interesting take...

Inside and outside are good choices and well executed.

Thanks!

As far as the inside goes the original lower cabinet interior was sprayed with light blue, just not much below the upper third of the cabinet. I like to take the paint down to the bottom on the sides but I leave the bottom panel unpainted for some contrast. I think it all comes together when the transformer board, tilt panel (in their natural wood tones), wiring, etc. all get put in place.

5J5A7085 (resized).JPG

The upper cabinet also had light blue partially covering the interior -- I simply covered everything and even used the inside of the back panel for some test spraying knowing that it will be covered by the ground panel anyway.

5J5A7136 (resized).JPG

Beautiful! All around!

Which instruction cards do you plan to use?

Looking for a good OEM pop cap. Please pm me if you have one.

Thanks! If I don't scan/create my own I will check out Inkochnito's website:

http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

Scroll down the left side till you see "Stern Electronics," then click the link.

EDIT: I'm thinking the cards that are inside the cabinet. If you are asking about the cards on the apron I have not thought that far ahead, although my originals are still in decent condition.

Doesn't seem like much activity on this club thread. I'm surprised. Seawitch is one of the best classic games. I found this floating in the bottom of my cabinet. It is my original SN tag. Can't figure out where it went. It was stapled but I don't see a staple or staple holes in any of the usual areas. Anybody know where it should go?

20210508_150655 (resized).jpg

Still have the last Seawitch playfield that has been waiting for a new home for almost 4 months. Has some minor issues but looks nice $500 US + $50 US shipping to USA. If Australia or Europe I can find out my UPS rate. The next 30 production Seawitch are being worked on with darker blue for June production $700 US. My art expert is still working on final corrections. I have 2 Seawitch glass ready to ship also. Star Gazer playfields will be the first to be color corrected for darker blue, & I continue to ramp out the original lighter blue versions this month for customers.

IMG_0184 (1) (resized).JPG

Just a FYI. I don’t know how many of you have cracked ball drain guides but I did on my Seawitch. I was able to source a replacement but it cracked too. The OEM ones suck. I reached out to Mantis Pinball and they made me one out of stainless steel. It looks great and is up on the web now if others need it. It should fit many of the classic Sterns and will never break again.
https://mantispinball.com/product/stern-ball-guide/

56C5C0F6-27C3-4304-8A32-C8A7A574B7C8 (resized).jpeg

Thanks for the heads up on the new part, Mad Dog. I'll add it to my upcoming order with them.

Selling my restored Seawitch.

Machine - For Sale

Restored Seawitch #420 for sale Archived

Fully restored (full original status) - “I am moving and have decided to part ways with my witch. She's fast and beautiful. Here's my list of improvements: * Cabinet stripped, stenciled and clear coated with 2pac. No rou...”

2021-05-18

Davis, CA

pinheadpierre

6,500 (OBO)

Archived after: 44 days

Viewed: 600 times

Status: Not sold

Hey Doc did you end up getting plastics from Marco? If so what was your impression? I need to order some new plastics.

I was planning on posting my thoughts/impressions in my Seawitch Thread soon -- I'll post them here as well.

Short answer, I did not purchase a set from Marco. I believe I talked to Kevin at CPR and he told me they are the supplier to Marco, so there would be no difference from the CPR set.

Since I'm in this thread I'll add a couple pics of the playfield as its coming along.

5J5A7523 (resized).JPG 5J5A7571 (resized).JPG 5J5A7597 (resized).JPG 5J5A7611 (resized).JPG

Follow up on the Plastics.

I ended up purchasing two different sets because half my originals were broken. Why two sets? I'll try to explain as I go along.

Here is a comparison of an original (upper left), repro #1 (middle), and repro #2 (bottom left).

5J5A7624 (resized).JPG

The first repro set was purchased directly from CPR and it is the middle version with more of a green tone. It was very different from my original and I was concerned so I contacted Kevin at CPR. We discussed the differences in tones and he explained to me the green colors were same as original and without fade. He may be correct (I never saw an original Seawtich to know) but they were still very different from my originals and I felt they clashed a bit too much with the colors on greatwichjohn 's playfield. To be fair the colors on John's playfield are also very different from my original but at the moment his is the only show in town and the show must go on.

Pic of the Green CPR Set set in place.

5J5A7625 (resized).JPG

On Marco's website a Seawitch plastic set is advertised that has the lighter blue tone. Kevin (at CPR) told me they are the suppliers for Marco though and if I had ordered their set I'd likely be getting a duplicate of what I already had. The lighter blue on the website was probably just the computer generated image, so I passed on ordering a set from them.

I found the third set (bottom right on the first picture) on E-bay: ebay.com link: itm

This set looked much closer to my original and after confirming as much with the seller I ordered a set (he gave me a generous discount as well). They are marked as a "Legacy" plastic set -- whatever that means -- and his description suggests these were also from CPR. Possibly from an early run from when they were silkscreened?

Here is how the "Legacy" set looks set in place.

5J5A7626 (resized).JPG

If you want to make things more complicated here is another E-bay set with darker blue tones: ebay.com link: itm

What will I end up using? Honestly I wish I had my original set all intact as I think it still looks the best. I like the tan body tones on the green CPR set, but don't like how the green fits with everything else. The body tones appear pale and the blues appear lighter on the Legacy set, but I'll live with that and end up using them on the finished product. The Seawitch's face in the center of the playfield looks like it could use some sun too, so at least the less tan ladies match that.

Kevin is a master of spewing defensive explanatory garbage about color and art. The truth is most likely that someone in the CPR art department can’t see blue correctly. They screw it up all the time.

Wow thanks for taking the time for that explanation. I don't think I have alot of options and it sounds like you won't be using one of the two new sets so if you want to sell it for cost I'd buy it from you so you aren't stuck with something you won't need rather than order a set from marco. If you have any extras of those protectors that would be pretty cool too.

Let me know what you think.

kevin @ CPR will state that they used the pantone colors listed which is fine, however I think a lot of additional factors come into play (based on what I've personally experienced helping to produce the repro plastics for joust

- I honestly believe that colors that were selected by the artist/designer and indicated on the original drawings, doesn't rule out the possibility that different colors were used (or mixed) on the production items given how long ago some of these were actually originally produced

- pantone chips have a life expectancy of about 12-18 months. at that point you are supposed to purchase a new set. pantone sells both a coated and uncoated set of their color chips for $370. they can change and be rendered useless if not properly stored

- monitor colors can look completely different than what actually gets printed (even if you have an expensive, correctly calibrated monitor. monitors are RGB and most printing process use CMYK

- pinball manufacturers used multiple vendors to source their parts. playfields and plastics alike could be produced by upwards of 4 vendors, each using their own "color mixes" (which also varied lot to lot)

when we did the color selection for the joust plastics, I did so over 5x under completely different environments & conditions (outdoors summer day w/ no cloud cover & overcast, indoors w/ halogen lighting, w/ LED lighting and w/ incandescent lighting) to determine which color chips most closely resembled the unfaded colors on the plastics. it was a very difficult & time consuming process, because I could determine colors and then wait an hour and try and do it all over again and come up with completely different results.

The bottom line is that no matter how well you source/produce the parts, there will be someone, somewhere, that just won't be satisfied.

Some things are inexcusable though, early plastics sets for Black Knight all of the fine detail was lost when printed. No way was that going in my game, sold them at a loss (yes, disclosed that I thought they were crap) and just re-used the originals. It helped that I had 2-3 parts playfields/machines to choose the best from.

As long as they have a liberal return policy (I guess you're out of luck on the shipping, of course) or if you buy from Starship Fantasy at a show you can at least see everything before buying. They do need to step it up on the clearcoating though there's just too much variations, Stars was fine for me, but the meteor clear felt like a ridged potato chip. In no way was that acceptable, but since I had to reclear it anyway because of the missing text/adding decal, it did get done. Not too happy that they added the text and didn't bother to email me back when I asked about it.

I am finishing up a full restoration on my Seawitch and i no longer have access to the photos i took as i was taking the game apart. If someone could please post some pics of the inside of the cabinet and head to show how the ground strap is secured and connected inside the cabinet and head i would be very appreciative. Once i finish the restoratiin i will post some pics of the final result.

My Seawitch project has been buttoned up enough to be put in the lineup.

Most of these pictures are also in my resto thread, but I know that everyone here may not follow along.

5J5A8217 (resized).JPG

5J5A8240 (resized).JPG

5J5A8248 (resized).JPG

5J5A8264 (resized).JPG

5J5A8253 (resized).JPG

5J5A8268 (resized).JPG

5J5A8222 (resized).JPG

Hey Razor,
Thanks for posting this. I would LOVE to solve this problem and it looks like you have. Did you ever post the "instructions" ? I would love if you said "no but I made a few more of these and would be happy to sell you one"

do you still need this? I am tearing mine down and putting in a new PF after I restore all the mechanicals and verify operation/performance.

RB

Sorry it is a no to both there. My game is onsite atm... it certainly is on the to do list, record the measurements and make a drawing. I may consider making a small batch down the track sometime, but if you want to have one made local to you it shouldn't be too hard with the drawing alongside the videos and pics earlier in this thread.

I'll try to take dimensions and make a drawing in the next month or two.

I always thought this game was too easy...

20210602_220425 (resized).jpg

I hate it when people do that. They either suck at pinball or have small kids.

At the point in my pinball hobbyhood I bought this game and got it working I had no idea it was not stock. That being said this is the game that turned me into a classic stern freak.

I just had a cheetah and Ali arrive on the same truck last week!

Putting finishing touches on Seawitch, dialing it in playing a dozen games and ball got stuck top left flipper.

Was wondering if someone has a nice clean fix that looks good?

4D90AD1C-B335-4E32-8BC4-8628B15BC2E6 (resized).jpeg

51E7890A-1A82-4757-81D0-C292EB0DACF0 (resized).jpeg

I used to have that happen occasionally, but after my full rebuild it has yet to happen again. I’m not sure what I tweaked that could have made a difference or if it’s just dumb luck.

You need this. I have it listed on eBay now. Offer me $10 on Ebay and it is yours.

20210502_125014 (resized).jpg

That’s a nice looking solution.

I almost bought that yesterday.

Yeah same used to happen all the time
But for some reason just stopped hasn’t happened for ages , I changed nothing

Yes I do need them if you have taken some.
Thank you

mainly in the head then?

The behavior has its own page on pin wiki.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Ball_Trapped_on_Upper_Left_Flipper_Plastic

The difference between the ball getting trapped between the glass and the plastic is measured in thousandths of an inch. Your repro Greatwich play field could be just a few thousandths of an inch thinner than the original play field, which would place the play field and plastic farther away from the glass. This would allow extra space for the ball to just roll back onto the play field.

This thing with the ball jumping over the flipper onto the plastic happens on The Beatles, as well. But with the extra hight of the play field glass to allow room for all the toys, the ball just rolls back onto the play field. But the problem with The Beatles is the ball just rolls off of the plastic and into the left outlane. So a similar deflector, like the one installed on Seawitch, has to be installed to direct the ball back into the center of the play field.

Interesting. Honestly, I don’t think the ball has even hopped up there since the rebuild. The playfield thickness is an interesting theory. The plastics are new, too, so if we’re talking about teeny tiny differences, that could be a factor, too.

Interesting theory.
I thought original Production Seawitch has this problem also. Or is this only rebuild Seawitch?