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(Topic ID: 61134)

Official Seawitch Fan Club ... All Welcome


By DirtySouth

7 years ago



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  • 995 posts
  • 120 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 59 days ago by fabsj82
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#751 10 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

So instead of a matrix, each lamp is controlled by it's own connection wire and circuit?

You got it.

Quoted from WonderMellon:

It looks like I have 10 lights out. (I metered the sockets and no power goes to them during lamp test)
J3-1
J1-1
J1-8
J3-19
J1-28
J2-4
j3-16
J3-23
J2-8

If you are lucky, the little "windows" that lock the pin into the connector will be facing toward you and you can test for power at the circuit board. If you are not lucky, you might be able to pull the connector away from the board just a little to where might be able to test at the base of the connector. You can also just check for continuity in this manner.

Quoted from WonderMellon:

The last one is Advance Loop Value 1 from the bottom drop target, but I can not match that up to a description on the list.

Sometimes you have to open up the machine and see what color of wire is on the item you cannot I.D. And then wire color you just ID'ed and take that back to the print and see which pin has to color of wire you need.

And then you have to hope all of your wire colors are correct to print. My Big Game has four wires that do not match the blueprint.

E.G.

I have a callout for a purple/white wire on the print. But what is actually there is Gray/black. I cannot remember the other 3. My Catacomb has a yellow wire called out on one solenoid but what is actually there is orange/red. One more Catacomb is like that that I know of.

The thought is that Stern ran out of the correct color of wire and grabbed something just to keep the line running.

You will figure it out eventually.

#752 10 months ago

Doesn't look like I have the transistors or thermistors handy. Just placed an order for some replacements. I'll post back when I can change these out.

I also ordered some molex connectors to get rid of the wire nuts.

#753 10 months ago

Personally, on the old Bally's & Stern pin, I ALWAYS repin the entire machine as standard procedure.
Saves a lot of troubleshooting time.

#754 10 months ago

Will be joining the club very soon!
I only have so much self-control till I cave...

#755 10 months ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Will be joining the club very soon!


Congrats!!!!

#756 10 months ago

Working on doing some diag on the lamp board while I wait for the new transistors to show up. Schematics tell me that a lamp that is not working leads back to Q37. Q37 is testing good (while on the board which I know is not 100% accurate). Assuming Q37 is good, I am looking up stream. It looks like it leads to resistor R37 and that resistor leads to U3. I have a problem there. The schematic shows the connection going to pin 5/6. I am not sure how to read this. Should I be testing pin 5, pin 6, pin 5 and and 6? How do I read this?

SeaWitch Diagram Chip Pins (resized).jpg
#757 10 months ago

I believe it's saying 6, just follow the traces.

Have you verified the socket and wiring end to end already?

#758 10 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

Working on doing some diag on the lamp board while I wait for the new transistors to show up. Schematics tell me that a lamp that is not working leads back to Q37. Q37 is testing good (while on the board which I know is not 100% accurate). Assuming Q37 is good, I am looking up stream. It looks like it leads to resistor R37 and that resistor leads to U3. I have a problem there. The schematic shows the connection going to pin 5/6. I am not sure how to read this. Should I be testing pin 5, pin 6, pin 5 and and 6? How do I read this?[quoted image]

MC14514B 4-Bit Transparent Latch / 4-to-16 Line Decoder

6 = Pin on the IC MC14514B
5 = Internal Output (S5) on Pin 6

MC14514B (resized).PNG
#759 10 months ago

Is there a verdict or opinions of which Seawitch reproduction backglass is better, CPR or John's? Pros & cons for both? One a clear standout?

#760 10 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

Working on doing some diag on the lamp board while I wait for the new transistors to show up. Schematics tell me that a lamp that is not working leads back to Q37. Q37 is testing good (while on the board which I know is not 100% accurate).

How did you test that Q37 is working? because it's not a transistor, it's a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier) and they function differently.
Can't say I've ever seen a single output on one of the 4514 CMOS decoder chips go bad.

#761 10 months ago

Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate all the help.

Quoted from Chalkey:

I believe it's saying 6, just follow the traces.
Have you verified the socket and wiring end to end already?

No, I haven't been back under the playfield. Just trying to take a look at 1 of the obvious ones.

Quoted from PinNeu:

MC14514B 4-Bit Transparent Latch / 4-to-16 Line Decoder
6 = Pin on the IC MC14514B
5 = Internal Output (S5) on Pin 6[quoted image]

This still sounds weird to me, but if pin 6 is the one to test, I will just ignore the 5.

Quoted from Quench:

How did you test that Q37 is working? because it's not a transistor, it's a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier) and they function differently.
Can't say I've ever seen a single output on one of the 4514 CMOS decoder chips go bad.

found a video on testing the Stern/Bally lamp boards. Put the multi-meter in diode mode, assuming the flat face of the SCR is facing you, put the red lead on the center pin and the black lead on the left pin. A reading of around .6 would indicate the SCR is OK.

I did this on all the SRC's. It did show 1 of the SCR's as not OK, and I was able to track that down to one of lamps that was out. All the others tested good, so I still have 8 I need to figure out.

The chip may be working just fine. I am just trying to find the signal and trace it through. If I don't find the signal at pin 6 then I need to go further upstream.

#762 10 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

found a video on testing the Stern/Bally lamp boards. Put the multi-meter in diode mode, assuming the flat face of the SCR is facing you, put the red lead on the center pin and the black lead on the left pin. A reading of around .6 would indicate the SCR is OK.

That doesn't tell you the ability of the SCR to latch on though.
First thing to try is grounding the "Anode" leg of the SCR. The respective lamp should illuminate which tells you wiring from the SCR to the lamp socket and the lamp itself are good - note this doesn't test the SCR, only that the circuit from it to the lamp are good.

Next to manually activate the SCR in circuit, grab a jumper wire and connect one end to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Connect the other wire end onto the "Gate" leg of the SCR. If the respective lamp illuminates, the SCR is good. If the lamp still fails to illuminate in lamp test mode, then you can go probing upstream on the 4514 chip.

2N5060a.jpg
SCR_MCR106.jpg

#763 10 months ago

Thanks @quench! It may be a day or 2 before I can try that out, but this is great information. The MCR's are soldered very close to the board, not sure I can get to the pins reliably, but I will see what I can do.

#764 10 months ago
Quoted from Pinballer73:

Is there a verdict or opinions of which Seawitch reproduction backglass is better, CPR or John's? Pros & cons for both? One a clear standout?

No opinions??

#765 10 months ago

John's seems really nice to me but I haven't seen CPRs.

#766 10 months ago

haven't seen the CPR one. I've got john's and it's very nice

#767 10 months ago

Ill third John's reproduction. I put it side by side the old flaking one and its as close as your gonna get without finding a NOS.

#768 10 months ago

I've got John's and am very happy with it.

#769 10 months ago

That's excellent, thank you everyone.

#770 10 months ago

+1 for John’s.

#771 10 months ago

Another +1 for John's

#772 10 months ago

+1 for John's. Not to mention the packing job he did for shopping the glass. First rate all the way!

1 week later
#773 9 months ago

I couldn't stand it... cobbled together something that looks a bit more like Beatles and it works great. Both the spinner and ball launch easily make the orbit. This was an exercise in patience though, and needed a few random ball guides that had to be hacksawed, filed and ground into a usable shape.

#774 9 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I have some alterations I'm working on that will allow a better alignment with the spinner rubber guide. I think the most practical way to adjust tension is simply by spring selection.
Here is a coloser video of the existing version demonstrating some orbits.

Here is the bolt on item I created to make orbits work great! ... both directions!

It's like seawitch could have been, with smooth non rattling orbits!

Click on my quote to take you to the relevant pages...

#775 9 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Here is the bolt on item I created to make orbits work great! ... both directions!
It's like seawitch could have been, with smooth non rattling orbits!

Can't wait to see it.

#776 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

I couldn't stand it... cobbled together something that looks a bit more like Beatles and it works great. Both the spinner and ball launch easily make the orbit. This was an exercise in patience though, and needed a few random ball guides that had to be hacksawed, filed and ground into a usable shape.

It took me a few watches to understand
Your Seawitch had a baby with Big Guns and now it launches the ball off a ramp into the orbit LMFAO

That’s one hell of a way to fix the issue!

#777 9 months ago
Quoted from Tokkentakker:

Can't wait to see it.

It's all spread over a couple of pages, a few pages back (including YT videos). Done this last year, Best Reversible Mod Ever ... Seawitch is Twice the Game because of it. Here are some of the other vids reposted...

0:54 Mental left orbit combo

1:15 Spinner Shot

Essentially it is just a rigid diverter that bolts on in place of the standard springy trampoline diverter "flap". Before the mod, basically ALL spinner shots would rattle at the entry to the orbit and roll back down to stop the spinner. Also orbits in the clockwise direction would always "spring board" off the flap and pass the upper flipper about an inch away from the flipper, making it near impossible to make a good upper flipper shot from.

I almost went the way of a "ski jump", but had issues not wanting to have the ball launched away from the playfield, and not wanting to mod the game with new screw holes etc. ... there was also the scrape mark from the original flap that I didn't want to reappear if getting a new playfield or restoration. This is partly why I ditched the ramp idea, extra wear and tear where the ball lands, and also the ball getting wedged between the upper right corner plastic and the glass if a location player decided to regularly go for the super risky Full Plunge!.

Not sure I understand what the upper left flipper mod is in aid of? ... on my game the ball never jumps the upper flipper, and never have ever had Any airballs off the centre drops. This is true regardless of the ball being ceramic or steel.

To me, airballs from drops signifies lack of support behind the actual drop bank. Every time I have encountered such a situation it has been resolved by sorting issues with the drop bank itself, such as support posts having been bashed back too far/broken/loose (or rubber thin/perished/weak). Incorrect targets/wrong part. These conditions can also result in frequently broken drop targets.

#778 9 months ago

e415d03b42235eec62c51f4599761a174d0a854b (resized).jpg

99a4986c7de7ced76ab579839dcbde9c327d58f8 (resized).jpg

Here are the pics from earlier in the thread, last year.

#779 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

I couldn't stand it... cobbled together something that looks a bit more like Beatles and it works great. Both the spinner and ball launch easily make the orbit. This was an exercise in patience though, and needed a few random ball guides that had to be hacksawed, filed and ground into a usable shape.

Great minds think alike. I installed a Beatles ramp last year. Works great.

Did you make any mods to the shooter spring? I had to in order to slow down the launch, otherwise the ball kept slapping the glass.

7ea599e760b14d7936c148eb433c5885c0045eaf (resized).jpg

#780 9 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Great minds think alike.

Not always

#781 9 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Here are the pics from earlier in the thread, last year.

That is a cool design. I was impressed when you showed in last year.

#782 9 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Great minds think alike. I installed a Beatles ramp last year. Works great.
Did you make any mods to the shooter spring? I had to in order to slow down the launch, otherwise the ball kept slapping the glass.
[quoted image]

Yeah, I have a much weaker spring in. I think I might need to go up one more strength but we’ll see. The game is going on location this week so I’ll get a real good feel for durability soon. I was looking at the Beatles setup trying to figure out how to tackle this, essentially cloned it with easily obtainable parts. Compared to your build I added a guide along the back arch plastic (also on Beatles). Now I’m wondering if I needed it. It did seem like I was easily getting airballs over the lane without but I also built it before I went to the weaker shooter spring.

#783 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinballer73:

Is there a verdict or opinions of which Seawitch reproduction backglass is better, CPR or John's? Pros & cons for both? One a clear standout?

I can't say which is better, but I got the CPR glass and couldn't fault it. Of course there is no mirror aspect, so that probably helps a bit Lol

#784 9 months ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

It took me a few watches to understand
Your Seawitch had a baby with Big Guns and now it launches the ball off a ramp into the orbit LMFAO
That’s one hell of a way to fix the issue!

I love your solution! Unfortunately, not sure how I would have put this together without being able to weld. I just copied the Beatles layout Stern engineered but without overpaying them for ball guides. Stern parts prices are crazy. Found some cheap stuff on Marco and use a piece from an old Gottlieb playfield to make this work.

#785 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

I love your solution! Unfortunately, not sure how I would have put this together without being able to weld. I just copied the Beatles layout Stern engineered but without overpaying them for ball guides. Stern parts prices are crazy. Found some cheap stuff on Marco and use a piece from an old Gottlieb playfield to make this work.

Basically the same result for gameplay! ... if I wasn't a fitter and machinist I would have almost certainly done the same! . Better playing Seawitch! ... you've all still done very well!

I did start there, but just wanted to make the game still look original as possible... the point I ditched and rethought was having to put that ball guide on the plastic to make sure the ball doesn't get wedged up there. I site the game and it's used in events, and unfortunately a softer plunger spring still can't stop someone palm punching the shooter

In the end the new plan had the bonus of not requiring any new holes.

The game in the videos does have another mod to make the orbits obtainable in the clockwise direction, for any that are okay with an extra hole in the playfield: Star post immediately above left upper flipper, moves 4.5-5mm (3/16") up and to the right. This means whichever hole is unused still is covered completely by the footprint of the star post. Also, this is not too far so that the plastic still fits fine without modification. It significantly improves the ability to make left orbits, from both of the right flippers.

These two barely noticable mods make the game play completely differently regarding the orbits and spinner. Better, and more ballanced. We actually Go for Spinner shots now!

At the SA Masters some people familiar with the game were commenting (without picking the changes) "how come this seawitch orbit works?" etc.

I'm happy with the result. It could be refined a little. Anyone wanting to reproduce the idea is welcome to go for it! . I'm not really keen on mass producing this at all. It's open, modders be my guest!

#786 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

Yeah, I have a much weaker spring in. I think I might need to go up one more strength but we’ll see. The game is going on location this week so I’ll get a real good feel for durability soon. I was looking at the Beatles setup trying to figure out how to tackle this, essentially cloned it with easily obtainable parts. Compared to your build I added a guide along the back arch plastic (also on Beatles). Now I’m wondering if I needed it. It did seem like I was easily getting airballs over the lane without but I also built it before I went to the weaker shooter spring.

I used a green spring but cut about 40% of it away and then added a 1 inch rubber spacer (rubber fuel line hose split on the side) to the shooter rod shaft to add back some tension. It gives good launches. I only very rarely get a glass ball.

I have an outside guide, too. You need it. Of course, once I got my shooter spring adjusted it seems like I might be able to remove half of it. but it still serves a purpose.

You can barely see it but I also have a plastic barrier bolted down on the play field plastic just below the 4-bank drop target. Occasionally, a ball still does hit it, too.

9dce16c348ec96479bc6f6337b6d1c36c78e898a (resized).jpg

#787 9 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

The game in the videos does have another mod to make the orbits obtainable in the clockwise direction, for any that are okay with an extra hole in the playfield: Star post immediately above left upper flipper, moves 4.5-5mm up and to the right. This means whichever hole is unused still is covered completely by the footprint of the star post. Also, this is not too far so that the plastic still fits fine without modification. It significantly improves the ability to make left orbits, from both of the right flippers.

Tell me if I am understanding correctly. You are talking the bottom star post on the left inside play field plastic. Just to the left of the lower left pop bumper?

#788 9 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Tell me if I am understanding correctly. You are talking the bottom star post on the left inside play field plastic. Just to the left of the lower left pop bumper?

Yep. 3/16" north/east you move it. Just enough so that the new hole has 1/16" or so clearance from the edge of the old hole. The post base still fully covers the unused hole, and the plastic can still fit without any real stress.

Game isnt here or I'd take a pic ... hang on ....

image-2 (resized).jpg

This is what has been done to the game in the videos...

It makes the left orbit entry slightly wider, but also makes some shots sent between the post and the pop behave a bit differently where the rubber now angles inward more toward the bumper. Sometimes rolls around there a bit like a ball guide and still somehow misses Every Target and Pop including drops and comes round right back at you, somehow! LOL

Thanks ipdb and paint Lol

#789 9 months ago

It always seems to me like the left orbit issue has more to do with the angle/position of the guide. The ball comes in and typically bounces, losing all its momentum instead of properly hugging the guide. See red mark on image. If the ball came in at a lower angle, or the guide captured the ball at a higher angle, I suspect it would be more reliable. I’ll try moving the post though, An extra hole in the playfield doesn’t bother me if the game plays better for it.

61A5C682-3525-42B0-A182-31BBDB4E05CD (resized).jpeg

#790 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

It always seems to me like the left orbit issue has more to do with the angle/position of the guide. The ball comes in and typically bounces, losing all its momentum instead of properly hugging the guide. See red mark on image. If the ball came in at a lower angle, or the guide captured the ball at a higher angle, I suspect it would be more reliable. I’ll try moving the post though, An extra hole in the playfield doesn’t bother me if the game plays better for it.
[quoted image]

Check out the videos, I put time marks for some made shots.

You are right, most places the upper flipper shot hits the ball guide it is at a substantial angle, which makes it bounce rather than follow the ball guide.

I looked at ways to alter this without too much butchery, but because of the left upper flipper (and other factors) it is just not going to happen. I was looking for effective but minor changes.

As your upper shot targets further up on the guide to the orbit, the Angle increases slightly, to a point. Before the mod, there was a Tiny "sweet spot". If you come as close as possible to missing the post, the ball will deflect up to within the bounds of the orbit lane, and continue around. Moving the post in the described way increases the viable width (range) of this sweet spot. The shot will be viable at a considerably lower placment, at a point where the Angle is less as well (meaning the deflection is more upward). It has an almost compounding easiness effect, as lower shots mean less angle, all whilst the lane is actually wider. A little bit goes a long way, if you like.

From the bottom flipper the shot could be made before moving the post, I did it once by accident (yay me lol). But it is an Extremely tight window. After moving the post the window is wider by about 4mm, which is quite a bit in a pinball layout/shot. Also, this window can be optimised by having the upper flipper rest position as low as possible (rather than up a bit as shown in the pic). My game has original fat nose stern flippers on it, and the shot could still happen with those even before moving the post.

image-9 (resized).jpg

image-8 (resized).jpg

For both cases re-positioning the post in the described way makes the shot wider.

#791 9 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Yep. 3/16" north/east you move it. Just enough so that the new hole has 1/16" or so clearance from the edge of the old hole. The post base still fully covers the unused hole, and the plastic can still fit without any real stress.
Game isnt here or I'd take a pic ... hang on ....
[quoted image]
This is what has been done to the game in the videos...
It makes the left orbit entry slightly wider, but also makes some shots sent between the post and the pop behave a bit differently where the rubber now angles inward more toward the bumper. Sometimes rolls around there a bit like a ball guide and still somehow misses Every Target and Pop including drops and comes round right back at you, somehow! LOL
Thanks ipdb and paint Lol

Thanks. I'll give that a try. I already have couple of other posts with a hidden extra hole; One more won't hurt. Moving this post is about as close you are going to get to try and mimic what was done with Beatles in the upper left flipper area.

#792 9 months ago

Here are pics of My game, showing the mods.

20200205_184444.jpg

20200205_184525.jpg

20200205_184535.jpg

20200205_184608.jpg

#793 9 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Here are pics of My game, showing the mods.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

I see your post mod in pics #1 and #3. And I see your gate mod in pic #4. But what is pic #2 all about?

#794 9 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I see your post mod in pics #1 and #3. And I see your gate mod in pic #4. But what is pic #2 all about?[quoted image]

I seen all the mods about the plastics and guards above the upper left flipper and tried to work out what their purpose is. It seems something to do with balls going above the plastic?

I have never seen any problems that would require anything like this in thousands of plays, on my copy anyway.

So the second pic might just be some insight for other game owners as to why this is so. I do notice my game has some extra tall posts beneath the plastic behind the upper flipper. Maybe this has some influence? (I do not know if the extra tall posts are standard or not?). The balls do hit the glass on very rare occasion (off upper flipper post rebounds), but I have never ever had a single ball stuck above the left upper flipper or it's plastic. The second and third pics also show the low rest position of the upper flipper that maximises clearance for the orbit shot from lower flipper.

I hope that kinda makes sense

#795 9 months ago

Mine came with tall posts and a cracked left plastic. The ball would get stuck up there and the only way to get it out is to remove the glass, pressing the pinball into the plastic as it rolled down. I replaced the tall posts with shorter posts (and even shorter ones for the posts that held the rubbers but no plastic. Now my ball rolls freely over the top if it gets stuck but that very rarely happens with the metal wire guide I bent for above the upper flipper.

The problem also decreased dramatically when I installed a playfield protector. Uneven inserts seemed to be a big contributor even though you'd never see the ball change direction on them.

#796 9 months ago

Another mod I did was to move the spinner. If you look closely at the spinner you will see that it is sitting off-angle. It does not face the lower left flipper exactly.

With the flap gate removed I had a little extra space where the spinner is located. I moved the right hand side of the spinner back about 1/2". It does not change the play action but since I could square it up I decided to do so. You can see the hole where it used to locate.

IMG_2999 (resized).jpg

#797 9 months ago

I tried opening the gap by the upper left flipper but instead of moving the star post up I just used a smaller plastic post. It didn't really help. The only shots that make the orbit are ones that still catch the guide on the low side. I dropped my upper right flipper down very slightly and that helped more then the post moving. Still very unlikely to hit it with a fast moving ball but I was able to get a couple loops from the right for the first time so it's a little better then it was. The spinner shots are killing it though. This game is just so much more fun when the orbit works.

#798 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

I tried opening the gap by the upper left flipper but instead of moving the star post up I just used a smaller plastic post. It didn't really help. The only shots that make the orbit are ones that still catch the guide on the low side. I dropped my upper right flipper down very slightly and that helped more then the post moving. Still very unlikely to hit it with a fast moving ball but I was able to get a couple loops from the right for the first time so it's a little better then it was. The spinner shots are killing it though. This game is just so much more fun when the orbit works.

The result of making the post the smaller size gives you only about half of the extra lane width than how far the post is being moved. So yes doing that certainly will have less effect. Also the small base of the skinny post provides less support. Keep an eye on it. That post takes a pounding man!

Combine the two mods maybe? ... What about a small post in the new spot!

Might have to machine up a post of small diameter and can give it a flared base. Keen to give it a try!

That would mean the lane opening widening by about 4.5mm + 2.5mm = 7mm. Maybe that could become too easy Lol

#799 9 months ago
Quoted from jay:

I tried opening the gap by the upper left flipper but instead of moving the star post up I just used a smaller plastic post. It didn't really help. The only shots that make the orbit are ones that still catch the guide on the low side. I dropped my upper right flipper down very slightly and that helped more then the post moving. Still very unlikely to hit it with a fast moving ball but I was able to get a couple loops from the right for the first time so it's a little better then it was. The spinner shots are killing it though. This game is just so much more fun when the orbit works.

Also the star post was not moved "up" ... it was moved "up and right" equally. So a 45 degree, Away from the lane guide.

2 weeks later
#800 9 months ago

I officially joined this club on Friday, and I love my game. I’m having issues with the right flippers fluttering a lot on ball impact. The bottom was rebuilt and I’ve cleaned the contacts on the upper flipper. What else could be the issue?

I plan to do the left orbit mods:
Adjust flipper down
Move entry post.

For those who did the wire gate + spinner mod, easiest/best recommended way to go about it?

This game will be going out at my arcade, meaning it will be left on from 10am to 9pm any suggestions to make sure this gal doesn’t throw a tantrum in those demanding conditions?

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