This is becoming more and more evident the longer this thread goes on. There's no one-size-fits-all solution, I think the only thing operators should really take away from this is don't be afraid to try new things.

I will pay more for a premium/LE knowing that I am getting more features for my money. I also do it as a thank you to the operator who had to spend considerably more on that level in comparison with a pro.

So true.... best advice is to just try new things (but if you are happy with your ROI and how your machines are going, just leave them as they are).

Our experience (in Australia, so prob not relevant in the US sorry). Pinballs over 10 years old are set to $1 / 3 balls, and older EM's $1 /5 balls and pinballs less than 10 years are $2 / 3 balls. (That is aussie currency .... so $2AU is just under $1.50 US currently ... although a few years ago was $1 for $1). We have been doing this pricing for nearly 10 years.... the $1.50 US for newer pins.

Two years ago we added tokens as well as coins .... so people had a choice ... with a token change machine. That was a huge improvement for us. Sure people souvenir some of the tokens, but the positives for us far outway the negatives (Love hearing the change machine paying out lol). So that was worth trying something new

As others have mentioned, our location too is over 90% general public, not pinball enthusiasts. We have the ball save times set to 12 to 15 secs, outlane posts set to easy etc .. replays with free games etc .... so their first game is fun and they come back for more.

And yes, our claw machine routinely makes more than our best earning pinball LOL .... even though that lasts less than 30 seconds for their $2 while a pinball lasts at least 3 minutes for the same money .... go figure lol

So even though the NIB are costing more, not looking at changing pricing. Back in the early 90's new pinball machines here in OZ were costing us around 6 to 8k Australian .... now they are 10k .... so not too bad considering

Just need our covid restrictions to lift here so that we can open up again

Definitely post how it works out for you.

Charge what you want, but $1.00 per game is the most I'll pay.

I tried to hold that line at 25 cents when I was a kid. That didn't work, either.

My local place charges 50 cents for all the new Sterns except for the most recent one on the floor, that one is 75 cents. This place is a restaurant hence primarily in the business of selling food and booze with a pinball room as a side attraction. This is completely anecdotal but I tend to hang out there playing for a few hours and what I notice is people that were eating will walk in, play a few games then leave. In this case personally I feel they are undercharging because these people don't seem to care. They aren't good players, they simple walk in often in pairs, giggle while playing a few short games then leave which gives me the feeling that the price doesn't really matter. They probably just spent a bunch on bulgogi and booze so the amount they spend on some noise and flashing lights probably isn't significant. I guess this echoes what others said in that it just depends on the circumstance.

LOL!
Then you were richer than I was!

Paper route and great service supported my habit. I had a big route and got great tips.

People keep mentioning higher equipment cost... the higher equipment cost is easily outweighed right now by the higher residual values of the equipment now vs the past.

Operating equipment is not about paying off the initial cost - it's about REVENUE. Always revenue. You buy a $10,000 halo game not because you are counting down how quickly it will make back $10,000 vs the alternative $7,000 Mario game... you are counting on how much it earns in coin drop vs what another piece of equipment would do in that spot. Is the game pulling in revenue week to week? Is the game pulling in enough revenue to offset it's TCO?

The $10,000 initial cost isn't the operator's concern... it's the cost of the unit after they sell it on. So if a pin costs $7000 but the op can sell it for $6000 after 18months... it's the depreciation they are worried about not the up front cost.

Pinballs are still cheap equipment in the arcade space. The issue is their earning potential is still paltry vs other coin-op and redemption products.

This is why vendors can offer lease models - the high residual makes taking back the product very low risk.

Most all the locations here are $1/game for Sterns. One op just went to $1.50/game for Godzilla Pro. I know him well so I can provide some feedback here once it has been on location for a while.

$1.50 for a pro seems too steep, but good on him if he makes it work.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm playing a lot less if replays are extra balls. Maybe the general public will like it more.

Also for places that are tokens-only (like the myriad of arcade bars), putting 8 of them into a pin for the $2/3 plays seems like a barrier.

I love how most of the replies here are clearly not OPs

anyway I don't think $1.50 or $2 is unreasonable, if a player is unwilling to pay, oh well, less wear on your machine and chances are higher income overall... a win/win!

raise the price of your tokens

Pinsider- “There are no pins in the wild around
me, it’s a pinball desert!”

Same pinsider- “I won’t pay more than 50 cents
a game.”

Why doesn’t Stern change their software so that matches are awarded with a higher percentage based upon a lower score or perhaps awarding a 4th/5th ball. This might award poor players with a more rewarding experience (bang for their buck). Perhaps the algorithm could take into account the cost of a game. I.e. a 2$ game offers a higher potential for match or extended # of balls depending on how bad the score is. If a player feels that they are getting good value then 1$ or 2$ is the same when it comes to their experience.

Also why don’t they add a buyin option? Damn, when I am having a good game I would drop another $1 to continue? I mean Williams did it and lord knows it worked for arcade games…add another coin to continue in 10…9…8….7…

I mean these are very simple code changes that would offer ops more flexibility to cater to their location and pocketbook.

Giving casuals pricing options based on better chances to match or lower high score/free replay awards just won't work. You have to understand the mentality of the average casual or walk-up player. They can literally barely understand how to press start. I'm not exaggerating. Being on the operator side gives you a whole new perspective. That's why setting up the tables challenging with open outlanes, but long ball saves and 4 ball/game at $1.50 or 4/$5 for prem/le (pro I can't see more than $1 is fair) works for everyone. The extra ball save won't really affect the prosumer players, but it will be much more forgiving for the casuals, and the casuals love the slightly longer play the 4th ball affords them. The wide open outlanes keep the table challenging for experienced players so they're not playing 40 minute games. Well, at least not often.

Experienced players used to 3 balls/game (who are too young to remember that 5 was once the standard) that complain about 4 being weird or messing up their score comparisons have never walked away from the 4th ball on the machines I helped with, but that's always an option if they want to keep it pure.

But again, OPs shouldn't be afraid to experiment and find out what works for their locations and players. The steep price increases for machines over the last 10 years have to eventually show up on the pricing card in a more commensurate fashion. That 25 cents I was paying in 1975 for a game is $1.27 now in inflation adjusted dollars. Pinball pricing hasn't even kept up with inflation in most areas!

Then why not consider charging 1.25/game. Everyone says 1.50/game and that's too much IMO.

I think $1 for a pro is still ok. 1970s games are essentially pros.

$1.50 is Prem/LE pricing. And 4/$5 incentive is $1.25/game anyway.

Ya, that's want I meant. I should have been more clear! I'd be willing to pay that for the prem experience! I just almost never see prem in the wild and never LE's. But that's starting to change with competition with the coin ops where I'm at.

Simple for the programmer, maybe, but that particular code change would need a big-time legal review. One of the criteria that separates amusement pinball from gambling pinball (in US law) is the ability to insert additional coins to improve the odds.
.................David Marston

The price of our games will not evolve until the mode of payment changes. If you run games that accept bills and coins people simply are not going to tolerate dropping 6 coins or splitting bills. If you study the mega arcades with points instead of $, they are already charging more than $1.50 for new games.

I’d rather pay $2 with a CC than 1.50 cash

This a little off topic but curious how games like fathom,8ball deluxe and other early ballys made any money back in the day?

They had so many specials on the pf,3 credits for hs, 2 replay levels etc. We used to play 8ball and max out on 15 credits and sell them.

Casual players.

Having run tournaments helped tech from time to time at locations, I've noticed that the general public puts money in things and has no idea what they are doing.

My favorite example of this was a Black Knight Swords of Rage on location...the right flipper button was missing. You could not use the right flipper. I watched someone put money in and play it....twice. These are not the kind of players earning replays and specials.

If they only had a brain!
f978946fd5e66b9c262949cabd36def5d5f3fb4e (resized).jpg

Yes, I am sure there are some legalities that would have to be programmed around. But seriously given what is legally done with redemption (aka kiddie gambling), I don’t think anyone at Stern (or anyone else) has tried very hard at looking into this. They don’t even offer a single ball buyin feature and Williams had that decades ago.

My favorite was watching a guy put $1 into Swords of Rage at flat top johnnys in Boston and just hit the lockdown bar action button three times (once per ball) and walk away.

I wish there were stats on how often this happens. I've seen it many, many times. That big button in the lockdown bar is like catnip to casuals. There are so many that have no idea how to access the two buttons on the sides of the machine.

$1.50 just seems like an odd price to charge, probably easier to charge $2 then $1.50. Personally I would remove the 2 for $3 option, $1 per game at default settings, that's it. Hell, I would try no initial ball save at $1 a play, no 2 for $3 option. One of the locations I play at does that with all of their JJP pins.

We have the extra ball feature turned on at our TAFG at a busy pinball location and it literally is never used at all!
People don’t know or just don’t care.

Just like pinmonk and crazylevi said, casual players barely understand shooting the ball into play and using the flipper buttons… they couldn’t care less for buying extra balls.

Played Godzilla pro yesterday. Location was 50 cents a game. That seemed perfect for a guy like me that sucks at pinball. I still spent the same amount as if the game was $1, but left happier.

It works. We took in a LOT of $5s with that pricing scheme (and 4 balls/play) on Prem/LEs.

Upgraded some of the changers to take $20s and started getting those, too.

Someone here already told you how (below)

Tell me I get more than $1 per game if I pop $5 in, and watch me put that $5 in. That game better SING like I'm attending an opera....those flippers suck, switches don't work, or main toys stay down, and I'll never be back.

Personally I never do the $2 for 3 games option for the simple reason that if someone is waiting behind me to play I'd rather just step away when my game ends and let him have at it. I'd just feel like an ass if my game ended and I have to tell him that I still have 2 games left.

Imma bring some real, non operator, normal guy that goes and plays a lot and also owns a game.

¢50 is the standard and I'll drop buckets in games at ¢50. You'll make more off me that way for sure

$1 is as high as a normal player will like to go and most likely go to at all. I'll play them more if I know replays are plentiful.

$1.50 for Godzilla is dumb. Maybe I'll throw 2 games in for my very first plays. After that I will never do it again.

$2 and guys like me ( your normal enthusiasts you count on playing most of your games most of the time) we will walk right by it. Not even think twice. No way. Didn't matter if it's the newest sickest game or. Someone else will have it cheaper nearby. And I will most likely never come back to your place to play any of your games. I'll do the $2 for 3 occasionally and stay on there.

The $5 bill thing is intriguing. If I get at least 5 games then yeah maybe. But, as someone else said, I don't want to be on a game 5 games in a row if someone is waiting. I would definitely throw a $5 in for 5/6/7 games if it's not crowded and I could do it without someone waiting.

$1 for the new games for 6 months.... 50¢ for everything not em. ¢25 for em. Flynnibus got it right with his statement and formula.

The price of new games is driving ppl out of the hobby, and now op's are trying to also? Yeah I'll let my kids spend their $10 however they want. But even my 7 year old realizes she doesn't get to play as many $1 games as ¢50 games.....

Oh and whoever is making the replays into extra balls needs to stop that nonsense. Shitty players (that only hit the action button) don't earn replays. Good players that can expect to get one when they earn it.

Play on!

Unless the price of new games is cheaper for op's, maybe they are facing being driven out of pinball too.

LTG : )

A> Your "ceiling" doesn't even keep up with inflation and works out to LESS than a 5 ball game in 1975 cost on a dollar-adjusted basis. OPs are in business.

B> $1.50/1 or 4/$5 works fine for Prem/LE games. $1 for Pro works. This is not my opinion, but actual fact based on route operation of Prem/LE games with these settings. I was involved in collections at these price points for years and it was a positive move.

C> Ops are only reacting to pinball pricing they also have to pay.

D> Less wear and tear/maintenance because of your speculation of less games at higher prices is not a bad thing.

Sheesh, glad I played mando on sunday then! You're welcome for the fiver in there

I still hate the idea of replay's being extra balls. Casuals aren't getting replay's anyway and don't even know what a replay is. Why not just raise the score to get real replays?

Personally I go very rarely to classic arcades, but like to go to a Barcade where I consume food and drink and help that way pay for the machine.

I get it, if you are an operator that has no share on that revenue stream I can see that you feel like you are forced to raise prices to offset costs.

If you keep constantly growing, and your number of machines held in inventory goes up continuously or operators that want to start off with no inventory, those likely are the ones hit the hardest, otherwise there is virtually no depreciation of machines anymore and if you sell them in the same cadence as you get them because space is limited, you increase only your asset costs temporarily until you liquidate the machine.
The cost difference is then only how expensive it is to borrow $1000 more per machine over the time frame before you liquidate it again. So the cost of interest for $1000 per machine over lets say a 2 year time frame which should be in the realm of around $200 dollars additional cost per machine total.

That all being said, I get it probably totally wrong since I'm not an operator, but that is how it looks like from the outside to me.

I figure if more and more operators get priced out of the market Stern will be moving to a reduced price per machine / shared revenue model a la Blockbuster.
We'll see if that is something the operators deem worthwhile. Or if the trend continues and the home market becomes the lion share of that whole operation they may not care at all.

One thing for sure. If there was money to be made operating coin op, there'd be a lot more operators around.

The actual number not counting hobby operators, is still in decline. My state has maybe 15 or so left. There used to be 300 in Minneapolis alone.

LTG : )

Never happen from any manufacturer.

LTG : )

Games haven't been .50/game here for probably over ten years. Only solid states are that price. And I don't live in a high cost of living area. Birmingham, Alabama.

Seems like newer pins were .75/game up until about 4 or 5 years ago when they went to $1/game. I expect games around here very soon the norm will be 1.25 or 1.5/game.

You have more insight than most into the industry, any reason why they wouldn't consider that? (Probably plenty, that's why I'm curious)

Money has to come from somewhere. I doubt any manufacturer wants to bank roll operators. Tying up money and people to run it.

When Virtua Figther 2 came out it was a grand more than other fighting games. So after a bit Sega came up with a plan. Pick it up, put it on your open account with your distributor. If you paid it off in 6 months Sega paid the interest. So the distributors backed the money and people to over see it.

With the state of coin op these day. I doubt any distributor could or would do anything like that.

And as far as the games. Manufacturers have their hands full now. I don't see any adding a stripped down model in their line up just for ops. When the same material and effort can make a game to sell to collectors or hobbyists. And if the fleshed out pins aren't earning, ops won't be buying a stripped down version.

LTG : )

I'm grateful that my local arcade has roughly 40 pins. Of those, about half are 50 cents, even somewhat newer ones like AFMr, Star Trek vault, Lexy Lightspeed and Houdini. The newest JJP, Stern, Spooky and American pins are $1, $2/3, but are sometimes game of the month, for 50 cents. They even have a few System 11's for 25 cents. I'm cheap and usually only play the $1 pins during league or tournaments or of course when newbs leave, with credits on the games.

simply put, manufacturers are in the manufacturing business, not the operating business. nor would they ever be interested in getting into it, dealing with managing locations and end users.

i respect your desire to stretch the value of your dollar, i try to myself. but the reality is, people like you aren't the operator's target market. no operator wants to undercharge per play, only to create more plays for less earnings, with that much more wear and tear to have to spend time and money fixing. if the higher price means 2% of potential players will pass on it, there's still plenty of players out there who find $1 to be pocket change, and will play over and over at that rate. not to mention, the resurgence of tournament and league play has created a huge market of rabid younger players, to whom $1 just isn't that much money. so as long as the manufacturers raise the price, so will the op's, and so will the players pay. and the world will go around and around like it always has.