I went to Logan Arcade the other night. Put a 20 in the change machine. I played my heart out all evening with a friend and bought his games too and I was shocked I still had quarters. Location pinball needs to charge more. I spent way more on beer than I did pinball. They could double the price of the games and I wouldn’t blink an eye

Funny, because getting to 100% gross ROI is probably the biggest factor of how I judge a game. I look at the pace, and expect a modern/new game to take 4-6 years to get there. I also don’t like to sell until the “% paid for” cell in my spreadsheet gets to 100%+ and is that lovely dark green.

But then again, I’m bad at selling games in general. I buy a project saying it’s a fix and sell situation, and then I start to really like the game. Trying to get better at that because I’m out of space at my locations and in my pinball room.

I can appreciate your argument.

I also appreciate the other comment that in somewhere like Portland the competition is a lot tougher for coin drop. Maybe a united front is required between the locations to up the prices a little bit.

How about making “new release” games $1.50 or $2? Have a sign on the top (like the old Stern “tournament play” sign) that says LATEST RELEASE! Or BRAND NEW GAME! Emphasise that it’s the latest and greatest.

If people don’t want to pay for that one, you have your trusty older $1 games right next to it for them to play.

Then drop the $2 down to $1 when the next new one comes out.

That model makes perfect sense to me.

Latest and greatest = more $$ to play.

rd

Why skip $1.25?

Nothing like a good suck up!

Nah, that’d be 10 games to one beer!

If one beer lasts 10 games, they’re doing something wrong! Drink better!

rd

The real question is why route a premium only to have to charge more if you are worried about charging more? It will get the SAME play as a pro for the same price. That makes no sense to me

I never play pro’s only the premiums. Logan does it right. Mostly. They had a pro or two I think. But mostly good old fashioned games or premiums

Unfortunately i think 1.50 will scare a lot of people away. I hear people complain about $1 and walk away unfortunately.

I’ve been doing $1-1 $5-7 on newer sterns my hardcore pinball fans don’t mind but casuals don’t seem to play those games.

Stranger things is my best earner at $1-1 $2-3

Hopefully increased game prices will push players to location plays rather then collecting and we can make up for it with volume.

Will know more about connect after Wednesday’s webinar

and with the new online thing people may think of that $0.50 more that stern is takeing $0.25-$0.50 of it per game.

That's cool that they do that, but Joe blow operator shouldn't being buying premiums unless he feels charitable. Just my opinion, hobby guys sure I guess if they plan on taking the game home one day.

This was my thought as well. We hardly see
many premiums/le in this market and doubt that will change with Insider Connected and price points.
I imagine operators will raise a bit and be very particular on which themes work best for their route.

Disclaimer: This mainly applies to FEC operators.

To be fair, I’ve been doing this arcade thing for about 3-4 years now. I’ve spent many, many months in the arcade now, pretending to be a customer. Many hours casually watching how the average jacka- I mean, patron mishandles my machines. They don’t even look at the price stickers. They just put quarters into it until the game gives their audible cue to start.

Exhibit A: Need For Speed jams all the time. I’ve witnessed a full grown man put about 10 quarters into it until he realized “it doesn’t work” then he kicked the game unsuccessfully trying to clear the jam, and put 4 more quarters into the other slot. (Yes, I went and cleared it after his game and put a couple freebies in it)

Exhibit B: Seawitch does NOT make a noise after every coin inserted. This frightens the average patron. Without fail, the coin return it smashed all the way in, and the coin chutes have about $4 in them. However, every single time I clear it and run the quarters through it works fine. The jams are caused by people getting upset and smashing the return because it doesn’t make noises when the coins go in.

The average, causal player is MORE arcade-illiterate than the players of the 70s, 80s and 90s.
Now people are so dumb they need Stern to show an goddamn video of how you put coins in the chute and press the start button, otherwise they’re hopelessly lost.

I’ve witnessed thousands of transactions at my changers. People put in however much they want to spend.
They take those quarters and mindlessly dump them into games until the game prompts them to do something:
GET READY... CRANK IT!
STACK THE BLOCKS TO REACH THE WIN ZONE
PULL THE LEVER TO WIN TICKETS!
Once they run out they decide if they want to do it all again or leave.
At no point does price per game seem to matter to these people.

TL;DR it doesn’t matter how much most the games cost. They don’t look at it. The games that make money are the flashiest, loudest ones. Crank it and Big Bass out-earn my pins 15 times over. Real math.

Also people flipping the coins in. Hard to convince them to put the coin in the slot and let gravity take over.

LTG L )

there’s been discussion among operators about skipping $1.50 and going right to $2.

with the skyrocketing cost of everything it’s getting to this point.

yes, you will get some old people that complain. it happens every time we raise prices. but the net result is every time we have raised prices earnings go up.

I have a Halloween on route which is close to the cost of Godzilla NIB, I believe, and I still have it is set at $1

You say they will pay 2.00 a game. Lol. That's crazy. I would never even walk into your place if it's 2.00 a game.

IME, Stern Premiums don't earn any more than the Pro's and the Premiums usually will have more maintenance issues as well. You can add JJP LE games to that list, too. More work to keep going on location and the earnings usually aren't any higher than a typical Stern Pro, or CGC remake.

Here are Steve Ritchie's recommendation on doubling the price of games back in the day for Black Knight 2000. Here is a direct link to the full letter from IMDB. https://www.ipdb.org/files/311/Williams_1989_Black_Knight_2000_An_Important_Message_To_Operators.pdf

Bk2k (resized).png

Being able to raise your price depends a lot on the supply of games in your area. This is a topic I've discussed with the other ops in the area. As long as there is an op willing to put newer Sterns on .50 a play and do zero maintenance, that's where the players go.
They are very price sensitive at least in my area. I refuse to do that because I hate shitty playing games so I have them on 1.00 3/2.00 except for games with super short ball times like iron man and have OCD about maintenance.
I still have a healthy base of players and have a crane machine to offset the loss but I'm definitely leaving a bunch of money on the table but I'm ok with that because I really don't do it for the money. I do it to bring pinball to the masses.
Over the years I've done some pricing experiment and what I've found to hold true is people spend what is in their pocket regardless of price. If they have $20 they'll spend it and just get more or less games. Foot traffic is what draws extra earnings and for that you need new games, lower prices or a cool atmosphere.

Anita Mann said it best, "You want to play , you gotta pay"

Judge Dredd

I guess I see this from a slightly different perspective. I feel that your average pinball player coming to your site to play will instantly recognize putting more than 4 coins in for one game. Even if a bill validator is present, a dollar bill inserted will not start a game and that will be a turn off for the majority of casual customers.

I've done much of my own research regarding pricing at our sites and it's definitely a gigantic hurdle to attempt to make more than $1 on a game. This logic is based on people's reactions when they see a game actually is a dollar to play. 85% of casual players look at the pricing for the game and if it is a dollar they turn away. What is true about the 15% of casuals that do play is strictly based on license/theme.

In depth discussion with people that come to our sites to play the games has certainly led me to believe that casual play will have to go to a card system before we can eclipse the $1 per game threshold. The Stern online system may help to get pinball veterans to pa slightly more but there has not been the change in appearance that would likely be needed to make that jump.

Just my 2 cents. I am not stating that any of this is hard evidence for your location or your situation. Just a small sample size at a few of our busier sites.

Cheers!

If you ever get a chance to read through coin op industry Playmeter magazines from the 1980s, you will find many letters from operators and articles discussing increasing price per play to 50 cents on pinball. Eventually, all the operators found their way to 50 cents and those that waited the longest simply suffered from weaker margins and lower ROI.

I think this is key. If you have a card system you can decouple money from the credits and definitely charge more. I've considered getting a card system but can't justify the cost hurdle with the level of business I do. It'd be a losing endeavor.

With the popularity of pinball,rising cost of machines and maintenance ops should get 100% of revenue
Future ops should market to the location that pinballs will bring people in particularly if leagues and tournaments are promoted in the location.

I'm moving to the Akron area this month, so reading this makes me happy! Message me where you have pins so I can play them when I get out of the house

While this might not be directly on topic it is related since the idea is for ops to get more money to pay for these ever increasing prices. I am completely supportive of that as I imagine it is tough to stay profitable. This can be done one of two ways: Limit play time (to drive additional plays) or to raise prices.

With that said, as a pinball player and not an operator, I really dislike when an operator charges less BUT they make the game so difficult to play. I am perfectly fine with limiting extra balls and replays. However, I have seen crazy playfield pitch, removed rubbers on outlanes, tilt overly sensitive etc. These were obviously deliberate attempts to keep ball times lows... extremely low. At that point, I would much rather pay a little extra money so that it isn't impossible to progress in the game. Doing those things just takes the fun out of it for me.

I went to a location like that just a little while ago. Only 50 cents per play but it just wasn't fun. The next day I went to another location that was $1 per play with stock setup and enjoyed myself thus they got more of my money.

Just food for thought.

Dupe... senior moment.

I would pay $2 on an exciting new title like GZ. Something like a LZ pro - lol forget it. Don't cry about taking longer to recoup costs. It's not like the pins become worthless and you have to earn the entire cost of the game to become profitable. Games retain more value today than ever. You might even make money selling a lightly routed pin these days. In the end, charge what you want and see how it earns. I just don't think casual players are going to want to pay that much for a quick game. That's why I preferred to play video games when I was younger. Pins cost twice as much and I would get less than half the play time.

Do we really need to have the discussion of all the other areas we're lacking that make this comment extremely laughable?

When I was but a boy all pins were 25 cents. These games have soared in price making $1 per play less profitable. High prices on used market have helped greatly but that won’t always be the case. The location by me has mostly LE’s and they only charge a buck. The cost will rise, it’s just a matter of when & how much.

I miss playing every LE at Banning for free...

I'd pay $1.50 or $2 for a Premium or LE, if it meant actually getting to play those versions of the game. More often I only see Pros on location and never get to enjoy the full game. I'm probably in the minority, though.

Personal point of view as a customer:
I do realize this is highly personal and certainly regional!

My personal pain threshold is typically around 75c per game. Or if it is a dollar/game then 4 games per $3. I will put a few games into the newest machines if they are more expensive but leave them alone otherwise.

Typically I drink a couple of beer and a coke, and if available get a snack. So, when I'm spending already $20 to $25 there anyway without having a single game played and I would get charged another $1.50 then I likely either switch to drink Water instead and / or go less often.

From my point of view at this price point per game it starts getting significantly more expensive than a movie night and not worth the expense to be doing that on a regular basis especially knowing that the operator can likely sell the machine itself for a profit or very little loss in the current market once something newer comes out.

I always figured that the machines are there to attract people and just pay for their own upkeep and depreciation and the money is made with the $8 beers and snacks. I also do realize that this doesn't work for places that aren't barcades.

Again this is just personal highly subjective opinion and not a scream that pinball needs to be cheaper or whatever else may be read into this.

I went to $1.25 a game because the price of everything has gone up. Literally, everything. Utilities, shipping, parts, games, everything.

Casuals are the money makers, and they don't balk at the prices. They don't know the difference between a Pro and a Premium.

At some point were going to have to accept that dollars are the new quarters. It will take more than one to play a game. I dont know how ops are surviving anymore with costs spiraling out of control. At some point it just wont be worth the headaches anymore.

Just a personal observation, we have a restaurant here in town that brags about their $5 million dollar game room. Not a single pinball machine. Not a single classic arcade machine. All redemption crap. And parents shovel $20’s into the card loaders like there is no tomoro.

$1.50 per play for a new game ...pshhhhh. I'd play it and not think twice about the price. A bag of chips in a vending machine is $1.50 or higher. If people are spending $6+ glass for good craft beer (NH is full of the good stuff, f*ck Bud and Michelob), they will pay $1.50 for a game of high end flashy pinball. You could probably charge $2 on GnR for kids to watch the fancy light show with Chunk Axl

Just curious what players do when they pay for a game only to immediately find one of the flippers is broken. If it's $.50 I just move on to the next have. $1 and I'll probably be pissed and less likely to come back. At $2 I'm going to start demanding a refund. I realize it's all subjective but if operators are significantly raising prices I hope they're prepared for a change in customer expectations as well.

And I realize most of the ops posting on here are not going to be the ones with poorly maintained games on location.

These expensive beer comments are laughable and worse than a cargument. I can't piss out the beer into a cup and resell it for close to full price.

Never tried Natti light I see....

Your MM isn't priced that way, just for the record

$1.50 games is understandable and I'd somewhat begrudgingly still put my money in, but its kind of a pain in the butt with the coins needed. $2 is a little overkill though, so its tough for me to say. This is just my perspective as a location player. I can understand from the operator perspective, its a tough choice. I'm also a pretty big pinhead and I understand operator struggles, your average joe who might pop in a couple bucks on a whim, or less hardcore enthusiasts might not agree.

Bring back 10 cent pricing or 3 games for 25 cents

I would rather pay $1.50 or $2 to be able to play over not having any machines to play. If pins aren't profitable, they are not going to keep getting put in places to play. Around here, establishments look at you like you have 3 eyes of you ask them about putting pins in their location as it is. We are always 20 years behind the trend.

We would riot. People already bitch about $1/game on brand new machines (and what's funny is op's still seem to make decent money here).

Appropriate pricing is going to be super dependent on city + venue, when I lived in small town midwest I would've paid $1.50 to play Sword of Rage

Your argument about resale value is irrelevant when your looking at ROI. The money invested is greater then before with the same return.

Not to mention resale value has zero impact on the capability of operators to finance a game and make enough to cover their monthly debt. This is the issue. If their looking to grow their business resale value means nothing till they cash out and retire. Financing growth is the issue. The return on money invested is just not there anymore and it will make financing games impossible.

I operate 40 games right now and have a decent side business. I paid cash for everything if i would have been in a situation where i needed to finance all the equipment i would have defaulted on my loan years ago.

Lots of Bally/Williams still earn really well, yet everyone has played those. People who earn a living with pins on location and buy frequently should be get pins first vs a home buyer that is investing in a toy. Don’t forget it’s a commercial machine made for public use to earn money.

Not directly on topic but my sister in law got a G Wagon a few months ago and that car sucks. It rides well, but it's absolutely tiny inside.

I'm not an operator but I can tell you without a doubt I wouldn't play at a location that was $1.50 a game. Maybe I'm spoiled but St. Pete/Tampa area has tons of good locations and they are all $1.