Agreed...but. It WOULD be super tempting to just see what the modes looks like. Not sure there's a PAPAs competition video I've seen that doesn't have peeps timing out modes.

True...'it they' did both...I guess I'd be fine with it

Rarehero, agree with most of your points. I would vote for not replaying completed modes.

One more thing, should have a sound effect or callout when the ball is saved.

Less back and forth video animation, especially the pop bumper animation of Gambit when you are in another mode. I think only the top priority (ie. mode animation) should be played.

More frequent Night Crawler mode it should not be super-rare since that's one of the best features. maybe should happen once every three games or more something like random like it is, but more common.

Good suggestions overall Rarehero. Although, I wish you would of mentioned to Stern the possibility of having completed Hero's make for less hits needed on Villains. That would integrate gameplay a bit better then just making Hero's all around easier IMO.

I also do not think modes should be replayed once complete. Especially for a pin like this with the degree of difficulty of shots. It just interferes with us completing the modes we really want to in order to progress. It serves as a roadblock and really adds nothing to the experience since you already completed it on that very game.

Well currently you're encouraged to play Hero modes before starting Magneto - as you'll get more points for those shots once starting Magneto. I'm not sure if there's a difference between playing/completing when it comes to Magneto benefit. Perhaps a solid hero insert could benefit you in Villain mode by counting as 2x hits? That could be cool. Honestly I don't think the Villains should be a TOTAL cakewalk. I don't think I'd mind restarting them as long as the progression was saved a la Multiballs in LOTR and Modes in TF

I think lit hero shuts doubling damage on those villain shots is appropriate. Ideally it would have a fast animation of that hero doing something cool to the villain. This would result in less shots and I think would be an ok substitute for villain progression. If you agree maybe you can send to Borg since you already have his ear.

I agree with ya' Greg, on all but one point: that hero modes should be able to be completed whilst in villain mode play.

This, in my opinion, is unnecessary and makes those modes clunky with too much going on. Villain modes should be focused, as they are now, except for the brotherhood and hellfire MBs, which I think should still stack for hits.

I've explained this before, but I'll lay it out again: it makes complete sense for certain completed (solid) hero mode combinations to make certain villain modes easier.

We have to bring more story into this pin through gameplay, allthewhile insentivising players to make strategic choices in order to give another layer of depth and strategy to it. So here's the scenario as an example: let's say that Sabertooth is "weak" to the combination of Wolvie and Storm. If you start Sabertooth mode after fully completing at least both Wolvie and Storm, Sabertooth takes 1/2 as many shots to beat, but even if you have just Storm completed, and Wolvie started, but unsuccessfully completed, you fight Sabertooth as normal. Each villain has a specific set if completed Heroes that they need to get the bonus during fighting them, with the Mag, Brotherhood and Hellfire MBs benefit according to the total number of heroes completed up to that point.

This brings more story and strategy, makes total sense, and gives you a reason to pick certain villains to fight during play.

Oh, and Stern, please give us jackpot callouts!!!

...rant over.

TSPP

...seriously....if no one has emailed Borg about this hero mode influencing villain difficulty, then do it now! As I stated on page one of this thread: if this is left out, I lose all confidence in Sterns creative's competence, because this is such an obvious addition that if left out, I'm dumping the XM and moving on....unless something knocks my sock off.

I did a couple months ago and got a pretty positive response

I was kinda hopping that a each villain\hero had a arch-nemesis towards each other. I've never seen an Xmen movie so I have no idea. Although I did Tivo one tonight

Rarehero - I like your list of stuff. If I had to take everything that you mentioned lock, stock and barrel I'd do it in a second.

Just waiting patiently for an update that I hope brings the love back to Xmen in our house (ever since Tron arrived a month and a half ago Xmen hasn't seen the power switch get turned on very often).

There have been a lot of games lately that don't specifically say "Jackpot"...I don't mind it as long as there's some badass sound FX or voiceover that more or less lets you know you got a Jackpot. I wonder who makes the Jackpot/No Jackpot decision....the guys at Stern or the licensor? TF just has "jackpot sound FX" which I honestly thought were pretty cool. Right now X-Men has sound FX for when you hit Magneto and take down his energy bar...those are essentially Jackpots. Wolverine's Jackpots are slashing the guards to death...those are pretty subtle though and could be more pronounced. Even AC/DC doesn't always call them out - but you know you get Jackpots when you hear the solo guitar riff during Multiballs. Steve does say "Double Jackpot" though.

Agreed. Point taken. But the jackpots sounds should be more pronounced at least, I don't get a rush from them currently.

I couldn't agree more with Rareheros suggestions. They are right on the money and would make this game amazing.

Great suggestions Rarehero.. I agree with everything you listed.

I had a great game on my X-men LE tonight, and I'll say again that I love the layout of this game and think Borg did a great job with it... We just need the code to match.

And the more I look at Avengers, the more I want to keep my X-men! If they tweak the code and do it right, this game will become harder and harder to find as people realize it. And to boot, no premiums exist.

My hopes exactly. There are no premiums, and if the code really elevates this game, then it at the very least will hold its "value" better, whereas if the inverse is a reality and the code sh!ts the bed, then this title will tank, many more will be on the selling block than there already are, and those ones aren't being bought even, so thus we'll have a high supply with hardly any demand, and value will plummet. I hope this doesn't happen, as this pin has such awesome potential. It has the chance to be the total package for me! Time will tell, fingers crossed.

I agree with rare hero too especially on NIGHTCRAWLER. Get rid of that jiggly wiggly sh*t and get them popping up and down with some speed like in Xavier.

I really like the idea of an iceman hero up mode. I'd love to see a mini mode associated with each hero. For example, beasts mini mode shot is gambit. Icemans mini mode could be rare heroes suggestion of iceman hurry up. Xavier could have a collect the mutants mode where all targets count as one mutant and combos count as 3 mutants or stronger (multiplier?) mutants, then hit Xavier to collect the mutant bonus.

Just my 2 cents

As for repeating completed hero modes; I hate it when I start cyclops, for example, a second time when I need to still finish storm or rogue as cyclops is a great set up shot. However, not doing hero modes 'might' get boring when you have all lit but one or two. SOOOOO what if you can stack a completed hero mode with a non completed hero mode and have two hero modes at once. Let's say you have all heroes kit but Phoenix and storm. Then you accidentally start beast - the player should still be allowed to stack beast with Phoenix or storm.

Yeah...some subtle things might help. I'm just going to assume they don't have the characters saying "Jackpot" ...I think they wanted the jackpots to be story/character driven. So - Wolverine's Jackpots would probably have more "OOOMPH" if they amped up the volume on the "Slash & Scream" ...maybe throw in a little music sting of some sort (guitar riff) ...and kill the GI for a beat & burst the flashers...that would probably get your attention and make you feel like you did something.

I'm surprised there isn't more complaints about Weapon X multi. Especially since it still starts so easy and often.

When the left side is the target, even though there is three flashing shots, you can only hit ONE, whereas the right side has 3 shots available. The other two flashing on the left can only be made by hitting a combo....which means you have to hit one of the right first sending you back to hitting Wolvie to reset....

Not to mention the one available shot is through the bumpers, which means you can get one or two balls bouncing around in there that will stop you from making the shot fairly regularly it seems like.

ugh. I hate it when the GI flashes or dies. Don't do that. It's general illumination.

My thought exactly when I stumbled over the first pictures on the Stern webpage. I am a VERY visual guy and first impression counts. With Avengers I was very disappointed seeing the playfield. So ... I am happy I got one of the XM LEs and even happier I did not make a payment to reserve Avengers.

Last i checked Rogue was the only one who had a mode fanfare light show upon completion. You must beat it a certain way to get said fanfare as well.

I think this is hilarious.

Well, I'm thinking just a quick burst or flash. Or, in the case of X-Men, they could do a quick alternate blue/white/blue/white for a cool effect. With the different GI zones, lots of possibilities!

I hope they add code to utilize the yellow strobe lights. 2x scoring?

the gi flashing in tf killed my eyes, the clicking killed my ears

I like the jiggly. Maybe add an adjustment on the timing though. "Slow", "Normal", "Fast".

Stop hitting Wolverine and your problem is solved

Dave.

Large sound effects when defeating a villain or finishing a hero are a MUST in my opinion. Make it seem like a big deal!

Dunno if you remember all the versions of Spider-Man. In the early code, when you defeated the final Sandman mode, it just said "Dune of Doom Completed". Yawn. Then in an update there was a whole sequence from the movie where the giant Sandman is defeated and falls apart. That made it better...then in another update, Lyman added great flasher choreography and shaker choreography that worked with the footage on the DMD...at that point it was badass!!! So - I'm hoping X-Men has the same path of improvement. It already has really cool comic book panel graphics and animation when you defeat a villain...it just needs some sound and flashers to go with it. For instance when you defeat the Sentinels it shows Wolverine flying and SLASH - the Sentinel's body and head lands on the ground. So - they add some sound design to those sequences and finishing villains will feel very satisfying.

The hero stuff is pretty well done already, IMO...especially Storm. There are great light shows during that mode and a big finish! I really like the start of Xavier's mode...the light chase sequence on the playfield fits w/ the Cerebro animation on the DMD.

Yea that would be perfect if they did something like this it would really integrate the game and rules in a fun way. Would be a huge improvement I hope they go this route. Not saying I want Villains to be too easy but definitely easier then they are presently.

This game really rocks. The more I play it, the more I love it. It is not easy. That is my first point that it is great. You really have to train to get the shots right. Then the completion of the characters. Rogue with being able to take away powers from other X-Men. We have comic book like animations going on depending on which character you hit. And I agree with the animations that are there for beating villains. We need more sound! And I also agree that the completion/stacking needs to be worked on. But we have a good base to work with. What really drives me nuts are two things:

1st: the iceman ramp moving and me hitting a shot at that time. The ball lands behind the flippers and is drained.
2nd: the wolvi or magneto magnet throwing the ball into one of the possible drains in light-speed so that you cannot do anything about it.

I hate those two because there is nothing you can do about it. In all other scenarios you can always argue that the previous shot was not as good as it needed to be, but with that -- it is simply bad luck.

I also get tired of the music. There needs to be one or two more tracks that are played. However, I can only repeat what I said in another thread: I am really happy I went for XM and did not wait for Avengers. That playfield really does not attract me at all

WOW. You are on top of this, I hope this happens. You have basically addressed everything and then some.

I agree with you on this one, I sure do hope they bring back this track, thought it was pretty cool (click on "animated LED backbox light replacement panels", then scroll down to either Magneto or Wolverine and play the video):

http://www.flipperfidelity.com/products.php?cat=Animated LED Backbox Light Replacement Panels&itemId=96

I kind noticed a "cheat" that I'm surprised it took me so long to notice. After a ball is locked in Magneto, you can cheat your way to Multiball by nudging! Even a light nudge will push the captive ball back enough to depress the switch & earn you a hit toward Multiball. Is this happening on your games, or perhaps my switch is just very sensitive? In any case, it made me think of a new rule to 'fix' this. Let me know what you guys think.

What if they ditch the "hit the captive ball to get Multiball" rule (just use the Lock shots)....and use hits to the captive ball to qualify Villain at the scoop! I always thought it was weird that the Blackbird lanes light the Blackbird AND Villain...perhaps this is a good way to fix 2 issues. I think hitting the captive ball to qualify villain would be more satisfying - it would feel like you actually accomplished that on your own. With the current rule, Villain just kinda seems to eventually light itself. Also, if we can't avoid the fact that nudging can cause a switch hit - I think it's less of a crappy "cheat" to lite Villain vs. Multiball.

Yeah i noticed you can nudge your way into mulitball, I don't nudge much anyways, and avoid doing it, mulitball is almost too wasy to start anyways.

I really like the qualifying villains idea though! I don't like them stacking up from the lanes at all... I end up avoiding lighting the blackbird because the awards are all crap anyways just to not have a million villain modes stacked up all the time.

me too.

hitting magneto's captive ball makes alot of sense for advancing/lighting villians. maybe the playfield multipliers could be moved to blackbird inlanes as well as the lighting the blackbird awards.

I think finished Hero inserts should become combo multipliers!!!

That's a good idea. There needs to be something to do For completed hero shots.

any word when the update is goin down? pre-xmas unwrap it early (21st) or an actual x-mas gift on the 25th? think rarehero really nailed it with his list of fixes/improvements. hopefully stern can come through with most of the requests. see, having unfinished code at the start just allows for more player input into later updates! cable deadpool are my faves so fingers crossed for a cool deadpool mode, maybe throw cable in the dmd animations or something.... i noticed i found him on cerebro...

Nice find and fix Rarehero, But I kinda feel that its going to be too late for then to address this now.
Also they will be too hard at work with the TFLE coding

There will be an update this friday followed by another update in a few months.

Can't wait till Friday!

Never say never.

Honestly, whether this update has all our wishes or just some - I think I'm gonna feel pretty good about it. I've been jammin' on my X-Men a bunch this week after mostly playing AC/DC, Tron, Gofers, and some others ...and I was like "man, ya know...as much as we've been bitching about this game - it's really good" I think it shoots great, has a solid and strong feel to it, looks beautiful. While we've debated the nuances of the villain modes to death, I do really enjoy them. They feel like battles w/ great color GI FX, DMD animation, and voices (all the villains have good voicework IMO!).

I dunno, this game is generally a winner to me...it's like a Lawlor Addams-ish design but with Steve Ritchie speed and flow. Maybe that's why it didn't work for some people...the Lawlor type players want things a bit easier....and the Ritchie type players don't like pops & stuff taking up playfield space. I like the best-of-both-worlds aspect.

The word about having another update past this Xmas one is a good sign, too!

I have to say that one issue that I would like to be addressed and will loose almost all faith in the programing team if it isn't corrected, is proper use of the inserts. There is no excuse for the obits during Juggernaut mode (which increase his jackpot) to be lit exactly the same as the shots that damage him.

Each shot has 2 inserts (the mutants name and the arrow). There is no reason not to use those inserts to help explain what is going on. Arrows should be designated as the thing to hit to complete the mode. The name inserts should be lit to show shots add to the bonus. Each of these inserts can also be flashing (at different speeds even). This just adds to the stupidity of having red arrows during Jugs mode mean different things.

Keep in mind I am just using Jugs mode because I am pretty familiar with it, but I'm sure using the inserts in a better way can help almost all of the modes.

I completely agree.
I'm one of the few that has not been jaded by any issues on my LE and have been able to enjoy it since day 1. This is the most solid and well-designed pin I have seen from Stern ever... with Tron being a close 2nd.
Aside from the occasional ball geting trapped behind a nightcrawler, there is nothing about the design of this pin I don't like.
In terms of their superhero lineup, it does a lot more for me than SM, IM or Avengers.
Can't wait to get this update!!!

I REALLY love how this game shoots... except for the rejections from super fast beast to storm shots... but I still haven't attempted to make any adjustments.

Going to try some of the tweaks mentioned in this thread:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xmen-upper-flipper-storm-ramp-shot-tweaking-to-prevent-airballsrejections

I have a pro, so there is no potential Nightcrawler issue... but it just seems that the ball is getting hung at the ramp cover. I can't exactly tell how the ball is getting rejected because it always happens so fast. It just seems to get to the cover and flies right back back down the ramp.

Anyone have any advice beyond what was mentioned in the storm ramp tweak thread?