65w is a lowly Intel i3 processor used in the cheap Dells and Emachines like a little girl would take to college.

150w is an Intel Xeon E5 - 8 core processor used in a server.

Got to get your facts straight if you are going to pretend to be hardware expert around here - some of these guy's rigs are serious.

I use water with water wetter now, used to have to use glycol because my system ran sub-zero (had peltiers in the loop). Tried various fluids, even did a full immersion with fluorinert several years ago.

Yep, sorry. I am definitely interested to see JJP's hardware. Alex, do you know if they are actually doing any real time 3D rendering, or if it's all 2D animations?

The Ivybridge 8core is 85w(77 actually)... That's whats coming in all new intel based servers.

It also has a built in QPI bridge which helps keep instruction round tripping across links.

Watch the condescension around "pretending". You don't seem to have YOUR facts straight. Considering I wrote the linux power management component of acpi im quite sure i am aware of power consumption of procs. And the 150w processors are highly antiquated original 8proc first gen nehalems that NO companies adopted because the power per square foot requirements of the datacenter couldn't facilitate them in dense populations. Thats also why you don't see them in blade servers because 2x 30amp 208 3 phase is a TREMENDOUS amount of power but thats what was needed for a 16 blade chassis loaded with those crappy proc's.

You keep dodging.

I deploy computers and CAM systems for a living .

The 8 core Xeon just deployed in March of 2012 are 150w chips.

I now believe you really don't know what you are talking about - at all.

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Let's get back on topic and answer this question ONLY IF YOU KNOW:

Is WOZ using an Adam processor?

Remember, answer only if you know...

FYI - The ColorDMD is a LAPTOP LCD Display. The ribbon cable you are talking about would plug into the laptop motherboard.

-Mike

Never, the license holder would never allow it.

-Mike

By all means point out a 150w chip on this list of server processors deployed this year (Ivybridge).

And there is NO SUCH thing as an Adam processor.

Now STFU and go play elsewhere. Tech is my sandbox..

ivybridge.jpg

You could have just Googled it rather than further showing that you don't know Jack:

http://ark.intel.com/products/64582/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2687W-%2820M-Cache-3_10-GHz-8_00-GTs-Intel-QPI%29

Here is an easy to digest overview of it:

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/processors/intel-xeon-e5-2687w-1074013/review

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Did you know that, or have to Google it???

I just wanted to see if you would BS about it.

I'll give you that credit, even if you did have to look it up.

Didn't realize I clicked on the dick measuring thread.

My mistake... Carry on.

Thats not an ivybridge its a final generation sandybridge and you wont find it in an enterprise class server. Thats for home tinkerers and people who build shit whiteboxes. Sorry I don't play in that space. Thats not what REAL companies use.

Go to HP, DELL or IBM's server sites and find that processor used in one of their enterprise models.

You won't. Only dumbasses who use supermicro white boxes would put that processor in their machine. It's missing so many instructions needed to perform efficiently in a heavy HPC world that it will never make its way into an enterprise machine and hasn't. It's a desktop processor on steriods. Has no embedded option capabilities.

Sorry but you are wrong. Just say "I Was Wrong" and we can move on. (P.S. i called out Ivybridge from the start but since you know nothing about processors and their appropriate names you had to actually find a single niche processor > 100w LOL)

When you can write a single line of code or actually understand what a QPI link does and what the benefits of having less than more you let me know. Until then go back to sleep with you.

BTW.. Those new ivybridge processors must be in girls laptops because they all MAX around 70-80w.

Power consumption is priority #1 in datacenters not speed. When you learn that you may actually progress to doing something meaningful in technology.

I don't know about HP or IBM but I know Dell makes enterprise-class servers that use the C600 chipset (the server version of the X79 that you apparently don't like) of which the chip that Vid1900 pointed out is a member (E5-2600 family). 130W TDP is quite common in the server processor space in multi-core processors.

Didn't sony say the ps3 was unhackable? If it is human made, it can be human hacked I figured the movies MI and such would of sold everyone on that :-p

I can say i posted this on 3dm and there is a group just waiting.

haha. I wouldn't doubt it.... the scene can do amazing things.

I might email geohot and see if he wants to touch this 9th grade project

haha. You may have better luck with those p2p groups. They are blowing up

George might take it on as its been billed so far as super 1337. Plus there is no money to back up a suit like he is used to with SONY or APPLE. Jack does not have that kind of money to piss in the wind on something. Especially since the EFF backs almost everything he does.

SAM shit has been hacked for years and floating around in the dumping group for some time. I know there was some issue getting Tron and AC/DC stable but they are running now at full speed. SAM driver for pinmame can be found.......

Yes I did hear about that.. I haven't checked in, in a while. Freaking sony....ugh...they should spend money on a new psn "live" system that doesn't suck ass. Or starting production of gt6 as it will take another 12 years.

George does like a good challenge

Guys, play nice. I have no idea what either of you are saying but I know you can do it without telling each other you are stupid. That I can see, it's ugly.

Now back to are initially started thread, WOZ System.

Check the thread. Again I didn't start anything or make any disparaging remarks. Same WOZ haters continue to badger me. So I respond with facts.

"Get your facts straight"

That's a pretty ballsy thing to say.

We can pick a simple language. How about base c?

We can write a thread affinity module to control power consumption since he seems to know a lot about

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Edited to make nice}

And with that post..

thanks-alex.jpg

Alex, I did not direct that at you, it was for both of you. Step back, take a breath and act like an adult. That is for you. Your above comments are rude and I am going to edit accordingly. If you want to reply about the WOZ system feel free but both of you need to stop. I do not know who is right because I do not know about that stuff but I can see you are both calling names and using profanity.

STOP

I'll delete. No need to edit

That processor is currently $1900.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117272

But I will finish out with the fact that 25% of our last quarter roll outs had that processor.

_{Post edited by absocountry2 : Edited to comply with community rules}

Jack did say in one of his speeches that the game would be open source.

That would be cool if the game after WOZ that he says will be non licensed, got back to that idea for us "home tinkerers".

Jack did say that a long time ago but retracted that statement shortly after. Licensing was the biggest reason he stated.

Correct, and rightly so.

But if his second game is unlicensed, then that would be a VERY cool thing....

Copy, you are talking next now.

If it were my company I would lock it up so others could not copy my code to get a jump start on a thing new I was doing. It seems like code takes a long time to write. I know nothing about it, but seems like a big issue.

I don't think that they'd release the source code until after the game was out. Plus it really wouldn't be applicable to Stern, totally different system. About the only thing Stern could get from it would be overall design concepts, which are valuable if they're better than what you have.

Okay, I feel compelled to clarify something: from day one (and I mean go back and listen to the VERY FIRST interview on Spooky Pinball in January 2011), Jack stated that he wanted to make rules open source, but clarified in the same sentence that it would only be possible on unlicensed pinballs. He never once said it would be done with WOZ.

Yep, that's what I heard too.

Copy, I thought he said he wanted it open at first and changed but I probably missed that. There is a lot of info that has gone by. I was watching that video with a bunch of the clips from the beginning added together and there were a lot of things I already forgot.

Where there are controls over data/systems you own, you have a right and duty to break them. Imagine if you bought a film, popped it in and 'sorry, we can't let you see our IP'. Buy a car and find the hood is locked. Many other analogies. Protecting pinball code seems even more pointless - even in the case of a license if people really want the assets, they could buy a DVD and get them all for $10 with very basic equipment instead of spending $7k to take them from a pinball machine.

snooooooooor, hu, what oh did I fall asleep….

your analogies are skewed. Locking the code does not make it non functional like your examples do.

But in your new cars the code for the media system and nav are locked just the same. Locking IP doesn't gimp functionality it only stops theft and copying.

If you made a product, let's say iPhones, and you now see knockoffs all the place hurting your sales or even worse someone released unreliable "code" Addons. Now your support dept is flooded with calls from people who thought something was innocuous but wasn't.

No company wants someone messing with their creation. That's even the case with open source. Redhat releases an enterprise OS. RHEL. You are free to install whatever you want however if you use a non Redhat kernel or if you install a kernel module that didn't come from Redhat they will not support the machine.

Just the fact you referenced newegg makes me chuckle. You are buying parts from newegg for your customers? No doubt building whiteboxes. I will give you a contact at a big var Newegg is overstock and seconds. Sorry man but that's bush league. Buy an enterprise class server with proper supprt and driver sets. One where the components are properly tested and certified to work together. Not something you slapped together. Your customers deserve better than that.

You may be deploying 150w processors in servers that you built but it isn't in any servers that any fortune XXX company would use.

Go read this article. It tells you everything you need to know about the disservice you are doing to 25% of your clients. You're welcome.

http://communities.intel.com/community/datastack/blog/2012/07/27/qa-jeffrey-s-klaus-of-intel-data-center-manager-solutions-talks-power-efficiency

"I like The Wizard of Oz. I like the Tin Man."

tinman.jpg

The problem does boil down to the fact that lets say WOZ comes out and the code isn't complete... or lets say JJP even makes Pin #2 and the code isn't complete, there are bugs, whatever.

Lets say JJP folds; everyone is stuck with 10K JJP pins that aren't fully functional. Now everyone is in the same spot as they are with a game like Cactus Canyon... incomplete and something that could've been way better.

I understand the desire to keep the sauce secret, however; it could be a selling point to allow people to take their pins out of "tournament mode" and develop their own rules, make tweaks, whatever. People are going out on a limb here and basically funding his business... not saying JJP is bad... just saying that it would be some neat insurance for everyone if the system was more open than the competition.

You clearly understand software so I'm sure you've seen games, applications, hardware, whatever that never really reached the full potential for many reasons.

You've described the reason for the open source software movement. Unfortunately the reality today is that profit motives are more important than unhindered and continuous progression of the quality of software.

As you can see in every Stern thread everyone is dying for the next release of software of every pinball machine they own... so yes, it's important to bring this up, but obviously JJP has had to bow to the licensing gods too... and we have to ask for the 1 millionth time, where are the custom themed pinball machines that avoid this?

You can bow to the licensing gods without going overboard. That way you satisfy both camps. Android phone OS is this way. Come on encryption just slows down software and the licensing would not require this.

My lord this may be the biggest clusterfuck thread ever.

No company that spends money on their private work (software) is going to give it away. Open source does not mean they are giving code away. It just means that if they modify someone else's open source code (ie 95% of the Linux OS), then they are obliged to make it available. However, new source code and private loadable modules are exempt from open source guidelines. And as such can be (and will be protected) as much as possible. If the company folds - who cares. The code is dead along with it. It's called reality.

Sure all code can be cracked, but with the low production numbers of these machines, it will not attract the best and brightest hackers - so the likeliness is NILL. Alex was (Im sure) empowered to make it as hard as possible to circumvent given the current standards and tricks. We employ the same technology in our products, and personally I dont know anyone who can crack them on site.

Apple etc gets hacked because there are millions of these machines made and ultimately someone finds it interesting to reverse it or "stick it to the man". As passionate about pinball that many of us are (possibly to a point of needing medication), most owners just dont have the technical ability to hack them and make these kind of changes that you all believe would be awesome to do some time in the future. Let's take a small step back here and remember that this is an appliance... not a life altering event.

Lastly, whatever processor(s) JJP uses is of no concern to anyone. It's not a high end server and the software doesnt require a high end CPU. The whole machine could probably run on a couple 25Mhz RISC chips, but it is way cheaper to use off the shelf low cost parts especially since they are just writing apps that wiggle I/O lines.

You guys who are arguing this crap are just way too in love with what you know to really know how consumer electronics are really made.

There are different ways to pull things off and make people happy. Granted... it would be aiming for a niche market in an already niche market.

Think video games that have map editors or developer kits. The whole thing isn't open but there is a highly customizable component to it.

I think it would be a neat feature that would differentiate JJP from the competition who appears to be rather poor with timely software updates. Obviously WOZ pre-sold pretty well so those people aren't worried about getting an incomplete or buggy machine. It is a business and if JJP doesn't feel the need to open up all or parts of the system he's free to make money however he wants.

And yet they will not try to stop you doing it. In fact they'll even help as far as they can, I know - my company has a contract with them.

I despise the idea that companies think they can tell people what they can and can't do with products they have purchased (of course, aside from cases where civil or criminal law prohibits such actions - for example piracy).

Technology related post of the year. 100% spot on. Thank you, I wouldn't change a word.

They won't stop you from installing whatever you want on the server. It's your server. They won't however support you if something outside their supported stack breaks. That's on you but it's expected.

If you modify someones intellectual property you are in violation of a few laws. But it depends on WHAT you modified. For example RedHat will not allow you to modify their real time kernel. They don't even provide the source for it. Only the kernel headers for compilation. That is a licensed product. They provide you the ability to add on to it programatically but you can't change the core of the product.

Same thing here. We are saying the same thing but in a different way.

This thread makes my brain hurt.

Im not sure i like the idea of the machine being hooked to the network. To me that means that someone could "get into my machine." what if one morning i fire my machine up and porn pops up on my LCD instead of the opening sequence? Is this a possiblity? The other thing is it running on a PC if i uderstand correctly. Current hardware in machines now is pretty reliable, where PC's are lucky to make it a year without some type of issue. Excuse me if i have no idea what im talking about, im by far not a computer person.

YAAAAWWWNNNN......You don't quit even when the mods have warned you....keep talking about things you know nothing about.

You are making a lot of friends here lately