(Topic ID: 257412)

Any landlords here? Please post tips and stories

By JohnnyPinball007

4 years ago


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“Rental property, yes, no, or thinking about it?”

  • Hell no, I do not want the hassles 35 votes
    25%
  • I love my rental properties 48 votes
    34%
  • I have been thinking about doing that 28 votes
    20%
  • I used to and called it quits 31 votes
    22%

(Multiple choice - 142 votes by 141 Pinsiders)

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#41 4 years ago

I currently own 4 (soon to be 5) SFH in my actual neighborhood.
I have a few tips for the various aspects of being a property investor, landlord, an operationally.

I like homes close to mine. It makes it easy to maintain them and keep an eye on things. I tell all prospective tenants that I am their neighbor and that alone helps filter out the ones that are thinking of hiding things (pets, extra roommates, etc...)

I buy homes with good bones and plan for the big stuff. I am slowly doing metal roofs as needed. I do the majority of work myself and I try to do as much as budget will allow before getting a first tenant. All properties must be at least $300 cash positive per month for them to be of interest for me. All of that profit goes 100% back into the properties for fixing and improving. I am playing the long game. Once I have 10 homes paid off then I will likely quit my day job and leverage those to buy more to grow the snowball.

When doing initial fix ups, plan for low maintenance and hassle in the future. Install hardwood, not carpet. New quality appliances bring in and keep better tenants. If you see a potential problem when looking to buy a place, it WILL be a problem at somepoint in the future. Quick example > bought a house last year with a remodeled shower but a shitty thin shower pan. I knew it would be an issue and sure enough it cracked. I now have to limp it along with ugly epoxy till current tenant takes a 1 week vacation and then I have to hustle to fix it correctly and for good. Just do it while the unit is empty and remove your future headache. I did not take my own advice because I bought 2 homes last year and needed to get to work on the second... Lesson learned.

Operational aspects are my least favorite thing. I have learned to enjoy them more by developing a good system for finding and screening tenants.
This came all from the help of a Pinsider a few years ago and has been a big help. I have learned to be hard and strict with my filtering of tenants to find good ones. You will have a bad one get through at some point, but refining this has meant way fewer headaches. Main things are 3x rent as total income, all persons must be listed on lease (no, cousins that showed up or extra dogs), no smokers period!, set clear expectations and verify by checking in. It is always a good idea to do a post move in inspection to see how the tenants live. Then go in 6 months later to "check" on the house. You want to give a good tenant their privacy but also see potential issues before they get worse.

For me personally, I will be in 'pay off the loan' mode before I get any more homes. Mainly becuase maintaining 5 seems to be my limit.
My current goals are to turn 2 year tenants into 5 year tenants. Turnovers take time, energy, and cost money. Despoite what someone else said, I NEVER raise rent ever for a good tenant. If they pay on time, take care of the property, and notify me ASAP when a problem comes up; then rent stays the same for as long as they love there. My properties are all cash positive so I have no issue making a little less each year (taxes and operating costs/ins go up) if it keeps a tenant in the home for multiple more years.

With a 15 year mortgage, I would like to only have a max of 5 tenants in that time frame.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

I've considered buying investment properties for years, but can never make the numbers work vs. keeping the money in a long-term, diversified stock portfolio. The only opportunities seem to be when the housing market takes a real downturn and you have cash on the sidelines, can somehow beat out the pros in buying property that will benefit from planned development in the area, or have the skills/time to do major improvements yourself. Doesn't seem to make sense to accept mid single digit returns given the work and risks involved. Am I missing something, or is your main motivation to be a landlord aversion (or diversification) to the stock market?

My main desire is to earn money 3 ways.

But most importantly I have no idea where I could do better with my money.

20k down plus 20k in fix up gets me a 120k house that is worth 200k when I have fixed it up. So 40k plus sweat equity already more than doubles my money.
I am cash positive a minimum of $3600 on the year so that is a 9% gain on my 40k real money investment. Most years that beats the stock market.
Lastly, I take the write offs on taxes.

Best part for me is once a house is completely paid off then it is promised income for the rest of my life with relatively no risk.
(note: I have bought smart in a good city that did not even feel the blip on the radar the last housing downturn and in fact, rents went up even more then. Madison is under 2% vacancy and much of that is due to college kid turn over season which I am not subject to).

In short, other investments will have bad years, but my property should be very stable and in the long term (once paid off) it will make me big money.

#74 4 years ago

I have actually found pet owners to often be good tenants. I have strict rules around it, charge a little extra, and find that they tend to stay and keep good care of the place. I will ALWAYS take dogs over cats. Cats can cause way more issues in my experience.

Quoted from JayDee:

then they get charged another $120 a month and we will provide landscape service

curious if this $120 is standard for landscape services in your area. I have a few tenants that dont maintain the laws as well as I would like. I have been unable to find a reasonable service for them to hire that is affordable.

Quoted from JayDee:

Also everyone has to have a background check

curious what other landlords are using for a service to do background, credit, and criminal history checks? I need a new one and have some spring/summer rentals coming up.

#87 4 years ago
Quoted from LargemouthAss:

Anyone who says they never accept government assistance (section 8/vouchers) needs to check their local fair housing classes. "Source of Income" is a protected class in many areas and makes blanket bans on housing assistance applicants a fair housing violation.

actually you are allowed to NOT verify eligibility of you property for gov assistance. Then your house is not able to take section 8.

Outside of that, I believe you can stipulate that security deposits of 1.5x must be provided by tenant. Most giv assistance will not provide more than 1x security.

#91 4 years ago
Quoted from DaHammer12:

Not sure if I understand that correctly, some of my units I take section 8 and it must be certified and pass inspection to collect section 8 vouchers.

correct.
As I understand it from my real estate lawyer that specializes in this sort of thing.

You can legally opt to NOT allow officials into your units for certification/inspection, which means you are not eligible for the program.
You can also have screening parameters based on all sorts of things that ensure you are not discriminating.

I have never run in to section 8 requests and doubt I will. I have a simple primary screening that requires household income to be 3x takehome of the rental amount. Add 1k for each additional person.

If rent is 1200 per month, then you must have 3600 take home. If you have 2 dependents then that would be 5600 take home.
This is a simple approach and you are allowed to set non-discriminatory parameters. You can adjust over time as needed to fit each house/timing. All that matters is you are consistent in your use (i.e. dont discriminate)

#93 4 years ago
Quoted from DaHammer12:

Holy cow, while I respect those figures that you offer they do seem steep

yeah, they are set to properly screen for my needs as a landlord.

It simply comes down to what the market allows, how to find the best tenants for my rentals, and making adjustments as needed.
All my places are on average $200 below market rate so that brings me lots of applicants. Since I get lots of applicants, I use aggressive filtering.

The TLDR version when I list a place:
Good description with lots of photos that blasts out to Zillow, hotpads, etc... on a Sunday late in the day (markets to people with jobs on Monday mornings). Description notes showings available for the following Saturday for qualified applicants.

Description notes to call (no text and no email; if you do then you are automatically disqualified since you can't follow directions). Requests when calling to leave a voicemail with some basic info about yourself. I turn off my phone while at work and then pre-filter from messages.

I will get 20-50 voicemails that day. I call back every single person after 5pm that day and have a list of general questions (where do you work/how long, where do live/how long, pets/trained, etc...)

If an applicant answers all my questions and has good work/housing history, then I set up the first appointment for showing at noon the next sat.
If the next applicant I screen has better answers then I book them at 11:30
If the next applicant I screen passes but slightly worse answers (less employment history, any questions of concern, etc...) then they get booked at 12:30
I typically book 5-7 showings so I am only busy 2.5-3.5 hours on that Sat; working my way earlier/later based on phone screening.

The trick is that 30min is barely enough to show the place. The 'best' people on paper are first to see the place and as they are getting done, the next ones are knocking on the door. I hand the first people the application if they are a good fit and have found that if they want the place (they usually do) then they are filling it out in the car and bringing back as the 3rd set is showing up for showing at 12:30.

I take the applicants, historically run them through local court search and an online credit/criminal background check, and then call their most recent AND the one before landlord for info.
Whomever passes this screen gets a call back to let them know and I suggest meeting on Saturday afternoon/Sunday morning to sign the lease and for them to provide a check for security deposit to secure the place.

This far, staying under market and providing nice house with a few perk features has brought me good tenants that like to stay for multiple years.
The cost per month being below market means I typically have more tenants to pick from but I need to filter better to avoid potential issues.

A few things I have found is that people can and do lie on applications. You must follow through on background and reference checks.

2 weeks later
#112 4 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Have been looking at properties the last couple weeks. Found one we are interested in and along the way I've had my insurance company price quoting each property to get an idea of what that is going to cost. The pricing seems very high and has a bunch of stipulations that are confusing considering what we are trying to do. Are there any insurance companies that specialize in multifamily rentals?

insurance should be inline with your personal home (assuming you are doing a SFH rental)

Maybe $100 more annually

#113 4 years ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

Has anyone ever challenged a property tax increase? And if so how did you go about it and what was the outcome?
THANKS!

Yes

I have not had much success, but the process will be different for every county/taxing agency.

In short you will need to prove why your value is more accurate then what the assessor came up with.
If a recent purchase then use comps and good solid logic with you math.
They use a software that takes in account #Bed/Bath sqft, etc... there is a condition factor but they will shoot high IME.

If you are more than 10% high to comparables then it is worth fighting if you are holding the property for any amount of time.

Good luck

1 week later
#119 4 years ago
Quoted from bkfiv:

My situation - I'm a complete amateur. I have one condo that I used to live in. Instead of selling, I kept it and rented it. I've only ever had 2 renters in there over the last 11 years. The first 6 ended up being a couple - the guy I knew from High School. They paid on time, every time, like clockwork. When they were ready to move on, I had a friend & his family in need. Yes, I sense all you veteran's sirens going off - but I wanted to help. The friend needed to move, and wanted to come to this community for the schools, safety etc. I was happy I was able to help. It was good for a long time. I'm not sure I ever really received rent by the 1st of the month and usually a casual text got it sorted out. Well, somewhere along the line, nothing to do with renting, we're not friends anymore. I'm actually not sure why, I think it has something to do with coaching kids in sports somehow, but again, just guessing here. Anyway, he won't speak to me, I don't care about that. Unfortunately now rent is going past the usual 1 week-10 days after the 1st. Now it's more like 15-25th of the month. I've started writing them "late rent" letters with a $50 late fee. I'm looking forward and I don't know what to do. I don't want to make them move. They have no credit, probably no other real good options. They still have a Sophomore daughter (2 others graduated already) that will go through my High School soccer program. So, I really don't like the dad, who for whatever reason has decided to be disrespectful and create some problem. But the daughter didn't do anything, I actually like her. Have any of you not renewed leases due to late payments? Is this even grounds to do anything? I really just wish they'd either pay <close to> on time, or let me know there was a problem doing so. Any advice is welcome.

This is business and unfortunately that means you need to remove the emotion.
I give everyone 1 chance. I sugest:
-Message them via email/text/ whatever your normal line of communication is.
-Let them know you would like to talk in person about upcoming lease renewals.
-Remove emotion and tell them plainly that you must have rent on time going forward. Rent is due by the 5th (or whatever date)
-Going forward if you do not get payment on time, then you get to learn about the eviction process quickly.
-They currently view you as a push over and for good cause (you have let it slip for a while now)

Sounds like a good place, good location, and possibly below market rate if they have been their for years. You will find new and better tenants with less headache.

I honestly have really only 3 rules
1. Pay rent on time everytime
2. Take care of the place
3. Let me know immediately if there is an issue (leaky pipe, broken lock, etc...) so I can fix immediately and prevent a bigger problem.

Follow those rules and you will only see me 1x every 6 months when I do a maintenance inspection.
Follow those rules and your rent stays the same for as long as you live there.

Deviate and you get 1 chance to remedy. Don't remedy and I will enforce the lease.
I have thus far not had to evict and hoping my screening process continues to uphold that trend.
I have had to talk with a few tenants but so far they have all dealt very positively with the business interaction and me treating them how I would want to be treated.

Big picture > screen better next time and remove the pity case from your decisions.

#123 4 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

So I just received word that my offer on my first 4 plex has been accepted. I thought it was overpriced and offered quite a bit less than what they were asking. I didn't like their counter offer, so I was ready to walk away. My agent said, rather than just walk away just tell them you aren't going higher. I said that was fine, expecting it to be over. I was surprised to hear they accepted it.
Now for the freaking out about if I made the right decision or not.

congrats! I also find the reddit landlords (i think that is what it it called) good info. Not always accurate, but good to read others real experiences

#132 4 years ago

It is my understanding that quite often the management company collects the rent and they pays the property owner.

One reason it to help legally isolate the management from the physical asset. For example some one sues and they are suing the management but can’t get the property.

Other reason is obviously because the manager wants to secure their payment and also money in reserves for repairs as needed.

#141 4 years ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

On the contrary, you're only insuring the building, not the contents? My rental insurance is only about $475 a year on each house - ?

you should have a larger liability that will offset.
My similar sized rentals are possibly $100 less annual premium than my personal home.

(and likely you should have a separate umbrella)

#147 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I see a couple people posting who manage their own things to post the rent under 5% to 10% what they should go for...at that point, shouldn't you just use a property manager (who charges 10% usually) and then not have to do anything at all? Save your time, put the work on someone else, and make the same money?
It's kind of like listing a house FSBO at a 6% discount to save yourself the 6% realtor fees...why not just charge the full amount and let the realtor do all the work?

Property managers typically get 1 month rent commission plus 10% of monthly rent.
That is a very large cut for doing very little for me.

I also dont enter into situations where the motives of someone I am hiring are different than my motives.
Agents often want to get the unit filled, care little about proactive maintenance, and actually benefit from turnover (1 month commission each time)

As a personal landlord, I have had no problem finding tenants so see no value in having someone else make that decision for me.
I desire to have 2 year tenants become 5 year and 5 year become 10 year. I want to decrease turns as each time I do turn it is effort and money yo clean, paint, etc...

If an agent works for you, then by all means go for it. I like making sure I find the right people and if/when it goes wrong it is on me. What is the agent doing when 'oops I got you a crap tenant that trashed the place and did not pay rent' ?

I can totally see using an agent when you dont live near your place or they bring value for a skill you dont have.
In totality, I see little time or value in paying someone ~15-20% of my yearly take on a rental for the little effort they need to put in.

Again, if it works for you then great, but around here that is like paying 2500-3000 for someone to fill a likely sub-par tenant and then collect rent.

#154 4 years ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

OK, here's a question -
I've never asked a tenant to sign a new lease when their old one expired, it simply went month-to-month at that time. And it's been fine, one couple stayed another 5 years, and another stayed a couple more. Nobody has ever packed up and left the day their lease ended.
But this next time, I'd like to lock the current tenants in for at least another year - what do you guys do if they DON'T want to sign for another year?

I sign 12 months minimum. Then when the lease is coming up for end of term, I schedule an annual maintenance inspection.
I walk through the property and assuming all looks in order I give them a renewal form.

The renewal for has 3 options and a deadline for return.
The options are a 1 year lease extension, 2 year lease extension, or notice to not renew and end lease at the current term.

If they are good tenants and I want to entice them to renew for 2 years, then I provide a rent reduction for the 2 year extension.

#155 4 years ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Here's how my property manager breaks down:
She takes a one time 3% of whatever the yearly rent amounts to, and the referring agent (if there is one) takes 2%. Or in other words if the rent is $5000/mt, that makes one years rent worth $60000. My agent takes 3% of that which is $1800, and if there is a referring agent she takes 2% which is $1200. That makes the finders fee between $1800 to $3000, or between 24% to 60% of one months rent. This is only paid once, it is not paid yearly so if the renters stay 30 years it doesn't matter, that one time fee is never paid again.
The beauty of this setup is both my property manager and the referring agent are realtors so they had a pile of people looking to rent a location, hence my place was basically rented right away and at a higher rent than I expected. So in my situation I actually made money by having a property manager just from the savings in carrying costs and higher rent as a bonus, because if I tried to do it all my self it would have taken much longer meanwhile I'm still paying the mortgage and other carrying costs.
Her monthly cut of the rent is 6%, but she got us a rent that was > 6% of what we were expecting, or in this case she knew a fellow agent that had a more lucrative client and we went with them.
So the TL:DR is between the carrying cost savings and higher rent, our property manager is not only free but actually making us more money than if we did it alone so everyone is happy.

This is the beauty of having a property manager actually. You can still do everything yourself if you want, like you can refer a tenant even if you have a property manager, they don't care, so in your circumstance as to what happens if they trash the place, nothing changes compared to if you go it alone. Except for one key detail, now you have a second legal team on your side that can go to bat for you!
So yeah everyone's circumstance is different but in my case the property manager made me extra money by saving me carrying costs and getting me a higher than expected rent, and I get a legal team, a few decades of experience, a large client list and someone to do it all for me.
EDIT: Maybe one thing to recommend is to go with a realtor as a property manager as most of them not only sell property but also rent them, and they know other agents in the city doing the same. So with that army of data it becomes much easier to fill a place quickly and for higher than expected rent.

Good info and thanks for sharing. For now I am very happy with my own management. In the future/as I add more properties then things may change.

#157 4 years ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

So, say for whatever reason they don't want to get locked into another year (job may be relocating, whatever), you kick out otherwise good tenants and have your property empty?

no, I end the lease at its normal conclusion and find new tenants during the best time of year to do so.

Given that we live in 4 season weather, I dont want to have a vacancy in Nov (I perceive that to be the worst month to start a vacancy as nobody wants to move with Holidays and then snow flys till March) . I dont allow month to month because of that.

I sign or renew for full leases.

#159 4 years ago
Quoted from pinostalgia:

That's extreme

not really.

It is not like I am kicking anyone out, lol.

I give any good tenant the option to renew/extend. If they dont want to, then the lease ends at the normal time and then move out.

This is really just simple business. The city I live in seems probably 80% of tenant turn over during the months of May-August. As a landlord, that is when you also want leases to end to ensure you have the greatest chance at filling a vacancy and finding the most qualified tenants.

The alternative is a month to month tenant leaving on Oct 31st with no new tenant for 6 months. Every landlord should be avoiding that.

#162 4 years ago
Quoted from fredsmythson:

During the final years of my landlord career, I had a lot of tenants who refused to pay their rent. I would write them letters, call them, and even hired attorneys to send them a bunch of "official" letters, but nothing seemed to work. Finally, I printed up some 8x10 neon orange pieces of paper that said, "EVICTION PROCESSING," in large letters with a paragraph of legal speak right below it. I taped three of the signs at one of my rental homes - front door, front window and garage door. Within hours I was getting calls from the delinquent tenants. Back rent was paid up within 24 hours. These little neon orange signs worked perfectly and I would use them with great success for all of my delinquent tenants... Always check state and local laws in regards to posting signs at a tenant's residence...

Is the assumption it worked well because of the public shame? (because all the neighbors could see and the tenants wanted to pay up to remove the shame?)

1 week later
#170 4 years ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

I've never done this. I've had people on month to month leases for 5 years. And I've never had a problem renting a house no matter what time of year - someone always needs a roof over their head. You could almost argue that you could ask MORE in the winter since inventory is lower, and 80% of the population wants to move when it's summertime. As for a 6 month vacancy - the longest my place has been empty is 6 weeks, and that's my fault because I take forever to paint and stuff. I must get asked every time I'm there if it's for rent. I'd rather have 2 18-month tenants than 3 one-year ones.
I can't see ending a lease with a good tenant just because they're uncertain about committing for another year. But I do see the logic of your choice.

Like most things, it needs to be a case by case basis.

6 months later
#191 3 years ago

I sold one.
With all the added burden and stress being put on landlords it felt like good timing to pull cash and reduce debt. Took that money and paid down loans on other rentals and now am more able to jump on the next deal I find to fix up.

I never thought I would sell, but current tenants wanted to buy and it was largely a no hassle sale. That made it an easier decision.

#193 3 years ago
Quoted from northerndude:

That’s an ideal situation if current tenants wanted to buy. Probably skipped all the realtor shit, skipped inspections and such and just had to do the deal?

Pretty much. They caMe asking. I told them they could take 3% off market value if it was no hassle.

I could have probably sold for 10k higher on open market but then you deal w all the BS and “fix this or I walk crap”.

This was also my least favorite investment property due to the larger yard that no tenants take care of

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