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Jersey Jack, 2016
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3 months later
Twitch is down at the moment. I plan to start at 8 pm eastern tonight as long as twitch lets me! Haha
1 month later
Quoted from Tsskinne:Anyone out here can help a bit with obs settings for a 3 or 4 camera set?
It is like I can't get consistent performance and its a bit frustrating.
2 or 3 c920s for player, score, and occasionally a flipper cam.
1 c922 for playfield cam.
I am on fiber optic internet with 23-25 upload speed, and this is my computer. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834154494R
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Try and just use 3 cams for now. Player, scores and PF
Set the dmd to something like 800x600 and 30 frames
Set the player to 800x600 around there and 20 frames
Set PF to 1270x720 and 60 frames.
Make sure the PF has plenty of light on it.
Basically the lower the res and the fps you set the dmd and player to that is not completely unwatchable, the better the chances the PF looks perfect at 60 fps.
This has been my experience with using all USB cams.
If jack helps you out, I'd love to hear his thoughts too.
Quoted from akm:Camcorder + capture card setup is the way to go for the playfield. C922s have been found to be buggy and inconsistent when using its 60fps mode. At this point I suppose you are stuck with it, but anyone else trying to get into this, do it right and avoid these things as playfield cams. You will be happy you did.
For the other cameras you want different models. Multiples of the same make/model can cause device conflicts as well as confuse the software. This can make the configuration process tedious and difficult. I use a C920 and a 920-C for the player and the DMD cam (the later is the 920 business model and doesn't conflict with the consumer model). If you need a third one, get another unique model. Honestly though a fourth cam doesn't add much to the stream and I don't feel it's worth the trouble setting up. At the very least, ensure you have three stable cams (playfield, dmd and player) before you decide to go all-out on a fourth. Or even better, make sure you have two fully consistent, stable cams before you rig up the third.
On a laptop setup like that you will need a good, powered USB hub as well if you really have to have four cams. Otherwise that MSI system linked to should be fine out of the box as-is. It is current hardware. I am using a laptop that's got an i7 generations older and am not running into the issues you mentioned. You shouldn't need to drop the other cams down to lower resolutions either as your system is plenty beefy enough as is.
Something else of note, when using Logitech's cams, you want to disable the added processing for lighting ("Right Light", low light compensation, etc). You will find the motion in the camera has a choppy, laggy nature to it when these things are enabled. Things will also get choppy if you have your exposure and gain set too high, so make sure these are lower. Have lots of light in your room to brighten up the room without relying on the webcam's built in post-processing.
Great info thank you!
So when you recommended using a powered hub to tommy, you don't think that will cause issues? When I've tried a powered hub I have to drop the res and fps on everything else a ton to be able to run 720 at 60 fps on my playfield, and really just get all three comeras to even show up.
Do you think that's my computer not being up to snuff, my use of two C922s, or what?
Also, anyone know in OBS when the message along the bottom saying overloading the encoder. What does that mean? Saw that a couple times tonight while streaming.
Quoted from akm:Also, I know some folks I have spoken with in the pinball streaming community have had issues with their 922s at 60fps.
What issues specifically? Not sure I've seen this with mine.
Quoted from akm:Choppy framerates and a blurry picture for some folks.
Damn!! Mine does the blurry picture and I've always wondered about that.
I'm gonna check those drivers you mentioned. Maybe that will help me.
Thanks again for the help.
Quoted from uncle_jose:x2 on AKM's opinion, Camcorder + Capture card. Lighting is tricky when avoiding shadows reflected on the playfield.
~ja
I would really like to figure out a reliable setup without HD cam and capture card. Can one set that up for less than a few hundred? That's more than what my whole rig has cost me.
What about hdmi signal loss at long distances? Anyone set up a PF HD cam with capture card where the computer is over 50' away?
Quoted from akm:As far as HDMI length, it seems like 25 feet is sort of pushing it. Repeaters exist, but they cost money. The logical solution is using an external USB 3.0 capture card, mounting it close to the cam, then running USB the 50+ feet you need. This is a cheaper and possibly more flexible alternative.
I'm in the process of building a computer similar to tsskinne's setup so assumed I'll have the same capabilities if not more.
Didn't know this was an option for HDMI. My current setup I would like to run as perfect as possible with USB cams and having the computer right there. Then when I have tournaments, have the computer 75-100' away at a commentator table. So this hdmi idea you have could be an option if my Ethernet hub proves unreliable. Thanks again!
Just figured out how to set up the groupings and the standings in two different scenes in OBS. They are structured so they can handle up to a 40 player group matchplay event, and no changes are needed except for the URL in the settings.
So each time you go to use them, change the two urls to the current tournament and you're done.
Trying to figure out now how to export these setups for others to use.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:Does anyone have a recommendation for a camera that can be hooked directly up to a TV? I don't want to stream or have to deal with a a laptop. I'm just looking for something to plug directly into a TV via HDMI.
I see some cheap cameras on Amazon (<$100), but wasn't sure if anyone had any experience with a direct to TV connection.
I'm just looking to have a camera on the playfield. I don't care about the DMD.
No experience but any HD cam with a HDMI out should be good.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:So something like this:
amazon.com link »
How high of a tripod should I buy?
For tripod just anything that can mount the camera as high as the middle to top portion of the backglass. Not sure how high that is. Most tripods extend to pretty high so should be plenty.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:Will a standard tripod work? I don’t think it’s be able to get it in the middle of the glass.
I was looking at a microphone boom stand which I think might make it easier to get into the middle of the playfield.
I guess I’ll need some type of adapter to attach the camera to the microphone stand?
Not sure. I use a very unique track system that hangs from my ceiling and before that I used these two items:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ABB4HC/ref=asc_df_B000ABB4HC5218980/
1 week later
I run two C922s and a c920. I wish I could get the C922s to not look blurry if used on the playfield. No idea if it’s my computer or the cameras. Both c922s look that way. Also there was always a slight lag in the video if I streamed with the 922 on the PF at 60 fps.
So now I do 30 fps and use the 920 on the playfield and use the 922s for the player and dmd.
I’ll post my computer specs in a bit. I’m running windows 7 professional and have 4 2.0 USB ports and one 3.0.
Here’s my Funhouse stream from last night using this exact setup.
Quoted from Rensh:I am using a c922 on playfield and doesn’t look blurry. Did you disable the focus? I put it on manually as it was sometimes moving the focus. Think is was confused by the lights in in pinball
I really reccomend the c922 As I think 60fps is really needed. At 30fps the ball movement is not so great seen on the display
Yes I turned off auto focus. 922s are very very very finicky. It’s seriously a luck of the draw thing if you get the lag and/or blurry video.
Does anyone know how in OBS when using a URL source how to get it to refresh?
Is there a key stroke that does it? The only thing I’ve seen that does it is to open the settings of that source, then close the settings. Haha
1 week later
Quoted from Pinball_LIVE:Just joined the forum and seen this - thanks for the nice comments!
I'm finding that CX405 cameras to be far better than C920/922 cams, and I would agree with vexx_182 about the importance of good lighting. Even, soft lighting is the key to a high quality presentation.
Had a great stream with RFM last night and will be playing a classic 1993 pin tomorrow (Wed) 8pm GMT / 2pm CT.
If you're around it'd be great to have you in the chat...
Glad to be finally on board.
Cheers,
Tim
I’m about to the point that I’m gonna go with the CX405 as well. Could you post a link to the capture card you use? I’m having a new PC built too.
Quoted from Vexx_182:Im very happy with the quality that im getting out of the c922x
I just can’t get past the lag and the blurriness I get when I take my C922 to 60 fps. Maybe my new comp will be different, but it appears other have that issue as well. Seems the CX405 has rave reviews across the board for streaming so I’ll just bite the bullet.
Agree on the price difference. It’s tough paying that.
Quoted from Vexx_182:Its all in the lighting. Also its has to be set to 1280x720 when you go to 60 FPS and if you distort your image at all in OBS or whatever program you use to fit a certain border or frame that you may be using it can cause it to lose quality as well (learned that the hard way). I thought the same thing when we first got our 922 but proper lighting and settings changed my mind completely. The last stream we did on my Baywatch is super crisp and smooth. I agree with you that ultimately the 405 is where its at and yeah its basically the decision of biting the bullet or not.
I’m all ears on the 922. I’ve tried everything. No matter the res, if I go to 60 fps, blurry.
I have pinstadium lights in my games. No better lighting for streaming than that imo. Floods the game with light. Still blurry. Take it off 60 fps, crystal clear. So weird.
I use OBS too. I’ll check out your baywatch stream. Thanks for the help.
Quoted from Vexx_182:Yeah they are definitely tough to dial in. It took us 2 streams before we figured things out.
Here is the stream i'm talking about where we got it dialed in nicely. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/186954726
2? You guys are way better than me. Feel like I’ve done hundreds of streams. Gave up a couple months ago. Back to 30 fps for me. I’ll keep at it. Thanks again. Stream looks great.
I feel ya tommy. Also if anyone wants to come watch me stream for SDTM pinball tomorrow night we are going to be messing around with a stream rig I made to hopefully be used in the future for the tournaments I host. If working right, should be able to go from game to game with ease and stream up to 15 pinball machines with only one set of cameras. The streaming booth will be around 75ft away from the cameras too. Game switching should take seconds. We shall see. Would love other streamers to tune in and give your thoughts.
Quoted from Tsskinne:Send me the blue prints I want in on this rig.
I’d be happy to. Preview: it’s on a track on my basement ceiling. Haha
Quoted from Tsskinne:I'm sure the lady will be fine with me installing one of those in my living room
If you do it cleanly and make sure it’s attached to the studs, it’s not too bad of an eye sore. But my basement is unfinished so it’s really easy to have all this setup and not look too crazy. Either way I’ll send you a punch list at some point and you can do with it what you will.
Tournament stream dry run. Rig on a track on the ceiling. we were able to switch game to game pretty seamlessly. see below for YouTube video.
in order to have the stream computer to be way far away, I bought a USB hub that uses Ethernet to extended the signal. In this case, I have 100' of Ethernet that runs from the stream rig to the computer. In order to have the three cameras play nice in that hub, I had to dumb down the res and fps. Player and DMD are 15 fps, and playfield is 30 fps. All resolutions are around 640*480. I will play with the setup more to see if I can push it higher, but from the link below you can see the quality of the stream is pretty solid. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
Quoted from akm:Going to the browser source properties, scrolling down then selecting the "refresh manually" button will refresh it. There should be a checkbox to have it refresh automatically as well. Make sure that is checked.
As long as you have an internet connection at the time of loading OBS, it should refresh automatically as long as the setting is correct. If you don't have a connection at the time of loading OBS, the browser source in my experience won't refresh for the first time until you do it manually.
There are shortcut hotkeys in OBS but you have to set them manually. Go to your settings screen and poke around there to see about setting them up.
got it! didnt see that I could scroll down in that properties window haha.
Quoted from Vexx_182:Yeah last week I had 2 things plugged into usb extensions and this week I had all 4 plugged into the 10 foot extensions. Each in their own USB ports no hub. I’m guessing adding the extra extensions pulled more power than my bus could handle?
Yep. When using extensions the signal loses strength big time unless that extension has another power source to boost the signal.
1 week later
Quoted from mizary:Any feedback is welcome. One thing we want to add is the current point totals of each player next to their names when they are playing a game. Also we only have one cam rig which we moved from game to game. This is why we couldn’t switch to games in progress.
I think this can lead to a positive for these smaller events. Allows local players to come talk about their game that was just streamed, do interviews, and pump up local events, etc.
I will make a better effort next event to get these things on stream even though I thought these happened pretty naturally on this stream.
5 months later
Quoted from RatShack:What are you guys using for a camera stand nowadays? Microphone stand with 1/4" screw mount and a few additional camera clamps?
Mines over kill, but I love this beast:
On Stage LS7720BLT Lighting Stand https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E2D4SO/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_i_3wReBb4P3F4HA
Goes great with these:
Smatree Ajustable Jaws Flex Clamp Mount 13.4" Gooseneck Extension for GoPro Hero Fusion/6/5/4/3+/3/2/Session/GOPRO HERO 2018/for Ricoh Theta S, M15/for Webcam C920/Compact Cameras(1/4" thread) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWNYGUS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GxReBbYVYX764
8 months later
Quoted from zaphX:Is anyone tapping video directly off the screens on a JJP machine? If so, what parts are you using to do this?
I’m thinking it might be cleaner to have a direct feed than a camera pointed at the backglass.
There’s no plug and play option. That’s all I got.
8 months later
Quoted from Chitownpinball:Playfield looks good, maybe a little more exposure to lighten it up.
Leave the exposure where it is and flood the game with light from led lights on a stand.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:Lower camera needs auto focus turned off. Not sure I love the angle. I may put it up higher shooting down more.
Having a good shot of the lower playfield on this game would be key. I’d try to put a web cam down there.
Also even if your cameras are set to 60 FPS, your stream may not be outputting that. Make sure it is.
Good luck!
Quoted from Chitownpinball:Ugh....more stuff, lol. I dont have space for all this. Ill see what I can do....
I looked at where I could go with the camera and its not going to be worth it to put it down there. The angle of view would be total shit. Plus I cant get the glass out unless I move 3 games so F that, ha!
With the camera at 60fps, the playfield looks 100x better than it did with the 30fps, but I will look and see. Pretty sure Im at 1080p at 60
Well your broadcast is outputting 720. Not sure on the FPS. Might only be 30 FPS.
3 months later
4 months later
Quoted from MisterM:What equipment is needed to stream wirelessly? Do you need a wireless hdmi transmitter for each camera? Would you then need a capture card for each camera? Is there a way to get a webcam to stream wirelessly? Looking to get a stream setup at a local arcade.
Yes you need a transmitter and capture device for each camera.
In order to do more than two at once, you have to mix up brands.
I use a monoprice hdmi transmitter for two cameras and a nyrius hdmi transmitter for the third.
For the nyrius you have to add a hdmi splitter at the end by the capture device or it won’t work properly. Don’t ask me why, it just needs it. Haha.
1 year later
Quoted from Durbin:What is used at the big tournaments for streaming?
Usually twitch, but PAPA uses/used YouTube as well.
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