(Topic ID: 261178)

Any car dealers here?


By russdx

3 months ago



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    #1 3 months ago

    I have leased my cars for the past 6 years but now want to just buy a year old car and swap it every few years for another year old car. I am not used to buying the cars from dealers only just ordering lease cars. What sort of discount can you expect off the sticker price? How much can you ask for off without being rude? I will be paying cash which I believe puts me at a disadvantage as dealers like to make money from trade ins / finance (any truth to this?)

    Any one work for big (car)dealers here?

    Any advice?

    Thanks

    #2 3 months ago

    Price matching between dealerships seemed to help a little.

    Try to shop at the end of the month or end of the quarter.

    One tactic that seemed to work was to go in with someone else who was also looking to buy, so there were two sales happening at the same time.

    Don't mention how you'll be paying or if you have a trade-in. Just say "I don't know" or "I haven't decided yet".

    Feel free to walk away if you don't like what they're offering. Chances are if they think you're serious about leaving, they might knock down the price a bit to get you to come back. Especially if they have invested a fair amount of time talking to you, and especially if it's near the end of the month/quarter when they're trying to squeeze in a few more sales.

    One closing tactic I used nearing the end of negotiation was saying, "how about an even $x?" (rounding down to the nearest thousand dollars). That seemed to work to bring the price down just a hair more.

    #3 3 months ago

    Thanks for the advice, iv also read the end of month/quarter, so prob best to wait until end of march? Only problem is my lease is up early April so gotta find something before then

    One car I have my eye on is £25,650 so was thinking offering £25,000 nice round number.

    #4 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    Thanks for the advice, iv also read the end of month/quarter, so prob best to wait until end of march? Only problem is my lease is up early April so gotta find something before then
    One car I have my eye on is £25,650 so was thinking offering £25,000 nice round number.

    I can tell you this much, be prepared to walk out of the dealership. There is another dealer right around the corner so don't be afraid of losing what you think is the perfect vehicle.
    NEVER take the 1st, 2nd, 3rd offer they present to you. Go crazy with your offer. The worst they can say is no.

    Since your buying used the price can swing quite a ways. If you can identify which cars online have been on the lot the longest, look at those. A vehicle sitting around is space they can't put another car on the lot with.

    I don't know the money exchange, but I am sure you can do better than £650. Offer £21,000 and see what they say. The mark up could be huge or they could say we can't match that. Then you walk and next time offer a little more.

    #5 3 months ago

    Seeing that you are not in the US, your rules for car buying may be much different than here in the states. Big price swings are usually more doable on new vehicles when the dealer is close to hitting their bonus money from the manufacturer at the end of the month. They may be willing to take a bit of a loss in order to trigger a $xx,xxx bonus for moving X number of this model that month. So buying new may actually make more sense than buying a 1 year old model, so long as you hit the timing right. This would really only be true for high residual value vehicles, like many Toyotas and Jeep Wranglers. Again, this may be very different where you are. If you want to own a vehicle that has a high drop in residual, by all means...go after a 1-3 year old one.

    #6 3 months ago

    My goal is to never make car payments again.

    #7 3 months ago

    Ah ok its a 2019 Mercedes C Class 220D AMG Line in white, needs to be 2019 as they just had a face lift.
    Thanks for the advice guys I'll give it a go Tempted to try and leave until end of march... bit of a gamble but could pay off hehe.

    #8 3 months ago
    Quoted from Jasontaps:

    I don't know the money exchange, but I am sure you can do better than £650. Offer £21,000 and see what they say. The mark up could be huge or they could say we can't match that. Then you walk and next time offer a little more.

    Yeah, the rounding down tactic is the just last final act of negotiation--it's not something you should open with.

    #9 3 months ago

    Important to choose the right vehicle.

    103EBF51-BC74-45E5-8A6A-0517CAF15562 (resized).jpeg16425456-AEB0-41DD-9D84-0C636D91C931 (resized).jpeg
    #10 3 months ago

    Maybe I'm missing something here but how is constantly buying and selling a car every few years different than leasing. It seems like you're going to have a higher payment and lose more money on each sale/trade in - not to mention having to go through the hell that is car buying over and over and over like some sort of eternal torture.

    My wife got rear ended a few weeks ago so we literally just finished the car buying process. Feel free to take or disregard my advice but here is the approach I used the last few times to success:

    1. No matter what, never say you "need" a car.

    2. Go in first to any dealerships and test drive the cars you think you are interested in. Give them whatever story you can about how you are early in the process, taking your time, etc. You want to know the car you want before you let them know you want their car.

    3. Once you know what you want, comparison shop as much as possible...all the dealers, cars.com, truecar, carvana, etc. You want to know exactly what you are comfortable paying and what everyone else is paying before you even contact anyone.

    4. E-mail as many dealerships as you can, ideally on the same email, with exactly what you want and asking for the best price. Give whatever excuse you can make up to not waste your time in there...taking care of a sick parent, have a child, whatever. You want to know their number before you even waste your time talking to someone in person.

    5. Take the best offer and call the dealership (ideally email if you can) and get the sales manager, not the sales person that emailed you. Ask them how much better they can do on the price. Whatever they say, go lower and see where they are willing to meet you. If they refuse to discuss it over the phone, someone else will. Get the price on the phone, get the interest rate on the phone if you don't have your own financing. DO NOT GO IN A DEALERSHIP UNTIL YOU BASICALLY HAVE THE DEAL DONE. These people want to waste as much of your time as possible so you feel locked into a sale ("if I leave now I have to start all over, I've already been here 4 hours..."). Be prepared to hang up. Be prepared to walk out at ANY stage - and follow through.

    6. Don't worry about being rude and don't worry about being loyal to someone. The car sales industry is a flaming pile of garbage. These people are not going to sell you a car they don't make money off of. If it looks like you're getting a good deal and they are still selling you the car, they have room to move on price. When they don't call back, then you know their real bottom dollar.

    Ask me how I really feel about these scumbags sometime .

    #11 3 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    Maybe I'm missing something here but how is constantly buying and selling a car every few years different than leasing. It seems like you're going to have a higher payment and lose more money on each sale/trade in - not to mention having to go through the hell that is car buying over and over and over like some sort of eternal torture.
    My wife got rear ended a few weeks ago so we literally just finished the car buying process. Feel free to take or disregard my advice but here is the approach I used the last few times to success:
    1. No matter what, never say you "need" a car.
    2. Go in first to any dealerships and test drive the cars you think you are interested in. Give them whatever story you can about how you are early in the process, taking your time, etc. You want to know the car you want before you let them know you want their car.
    3. Once you know what you want, comparison shop as much as possible...all the dealers, cars.com, truecar, carvana, etc. You want to know exactly what you are comfortable paying and what everyone else is paying before you even contact anyone.
    4. E-mail as many dealerships as you can, ideally on the same email, with exactly what you want and asking for the best price. Give whatever excuse you can make up to not waste your time in there...taking care of a sick parent, have a child, whatever. You want to know their number before you even waste your time talking to someone in person.
    5. Take the best offer and call the dealership (ideally email if you can) and get the sales manager, not the sales person that emailed you. Ask them how much better they can do on the price. Whatever they say, go lower and see where they are willing to meet you. If they refuse to discuss it over the phone, someone else will. Get the price on the phone, get the interest rate on the phone if you don't have your own financing. DO NOT GO IN A DEALERSHIP UNTIL YOU BASICALLY HAVE THE DEAL DONE. These people want to waste as much of your time as possible so you feel locked into a sale ("if I leave now I have to start all over, I've already been here 4 hours..."). Be prepared to hang up. Be prepared to walk out at ANY stage - and follow through.
    6. Don't worry about being rude and don't worry about being loyal to someone. The car sales industry is a flaming pile of garbage. These people are not going to sell you a car they don't make money off of. If it looks like you're getting a good deal and they are still selling you the car, they have room to move on price. When they don't call back, then you know their real bottom dollar.
    Ask me how I really feel about these scumbags sometime .

    Yeah i totally agree, but then i think iv been paying £300 a month for 4 years for something I just now give back! nothing to show for it. I have to keep it in very good condition and stick to 8k miles a year etc... But if i bought the car in 4 years even if its only worth 15k that's 15k better then 0k And i might just choose to run it into the ground or put in another 10k to upgrade it. When you lease your paying for the depreciation in the first few years of a car which is the highest. Buying 1 year old its lost quite a bit and is still pretty much a new car so is deffo savings to be had, but yeah is more hassle i guess. Like I said iv been in the leasing game for a while now so thought id trey it the other way round

    #12 3 months ago

    When leasing, you are making a wager that the vehicle will depreciate more in X years than the sum of your payments. When you buy outright, you are wagering the vehicle will depreciate less than what you have into it during the same time. This is only applies when you don't keep vehicles long term.

    #13 3 months ago

    Idea was to keep for 2-3 years then trade for another year old car but i like the idea of actually owning it and putting as many miles on it that i want (yes will lower value etc..) or if i just feel like keeping it i can, or want to swap early i can. I like the idea of having more freedom then signing on the dotted line and stuck for next X years.

    #14 3 months ago

    "If you can"..deal with the Mgr rather then the sales guy/gal. I used to belong to a key club which allowed me to deal directly with the mgr. I was able to walk in and deal directly with the Manager, cutting out the salesman's commission. That was part of the deal. $cheap deal for $29. a year. and lesson learned.

    I now also have a buddy that can always give me a GM family and friends discount whenever I want. So then I get the price at one dealer mgr vs my buddy's.
    Almost always the discount wins, depending on the price of the vehicle.

    #15 3 months ago

    If you have an agreement written up and it is "Subject to Financial Approval". You could end up owning the vehicle before you are aware that you own it.
    One thing I have heard of is having the agreement written up as "Subject to Spouses Approval".

    Getting multiple car dealer quotes, involving your bank info, can effect your 'Credit Score' temporally.

    The only advantage to leasing is the ability to write off the payments if the vehicle is used for work.

    #16 3 months ago
    Quoted from Darcy:

    Getting multiple car dealer quotes, involving your bank info, can effect your 'Credit Score' temporally.

    This is sort of true, it might be different in the states. A dealer isn't allowed to pull your credit without your authorization. If you are having them do your financing for you, they will usually do it through some sort of indirect auto platform that basically sends your info to a bunch of banks who then respond with their financing offers based on the info. So it will look as if you had a bunch of credit inquiries on one day, but shouldn't really have a meaningful impact on your credit since anyone who understands what they are looking at would see that you were purchasing a car.

    That said, do your homework and rate shop on your own and if you don't want to get your own financing just ask the dealer to match it (and they will). Our last car I got a great rate available with BoA and the dealer was offering some absurd 6.95% rate. I told them what BoA was offering me (3.3 I believe) and suddenly they were at 3.3 without even having to pull my credit. They will pull your credit eventually, but this way it was just with one institution if that's a concern.

    #17 3 months ago

    This is definitely worth a listen - https://www.thisamericanlife.org/513/129-cars.

    #18 3 months ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Important to choose the right vehicle.[quoted image][quoted image]

    I bought a 2016 Wrangler Unlimited last fall. There wasn't much room in negotiation, all the dealers I went to seemed to know they had the leverage.

    #19 3 months ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    I bought a 2016 Wrangler Unlimited last fall. There wasn't much room in negotiation, all the dealers I went to seemed to know they had the leverage.

    Hence why I tend to buy less desirable models, or lower trim levels...

    Example being, I bought a one step above "work truck" trim Silverado a few years ago, that was very desirable to me (Crew Cab, long bed, 4x4), but didn't have leather, the largest V8, no sunroof, top tier alloy wheels, nav, etc. I was able to aggressively negotiate on it because it sat on the lot for a while, and most people are looking for loaded out Denalis/King Ranches/Rough Countries/Platinums/etc...

    Jeeps have exploded stupidly in price as they have become the preferred chariot of the well-heeled suburban soccer mom, and everyone knows it. (A far cry from the traditional buyer who wanted utilitarian, rugged performance in all terrain and weather). It seems the majority now are loaded out "mall-crawlers".

    It saddens me to think about how many clueless people have been ripped off buying a lesser trimmed version that some unscrupulous dealer/person slapped a "Rubicon" sticker on. For some, it's all about the status of a sticker...

    If you really want a shocker, price out a new 4-Runner. $60k is about average now. I'm not sure there really is anything left that I would consider "affordable" to most that is: truly off-road capable, can tow a trailer, can fit the whole family, and can be daily driven.

    #20 3 months ago

    I sold cars years ago. People that came in with the Costco price always got near the best deal. Quick and easy way to do it.

    #21 3 months ago

    Offered £24500 so about 1k under sticker they did not accept (asked for a better offer). Worth countering or just waiting for another?

    No credit this will be cash.

    Also did not realise how much uk road tax is now, for this car it’s £465 which is insane I swear it was only like £185 on my last bought car. It’s always included in the lease deal so you never think of road tax when leasing. Might ask for them to throw in free years tax or something. Do dealers get this cheaper?

    #22 3 months ago

    Buy an ex demo or display model.

    That way, you save bucks up front ... the car is still worth the same when you go to sell it down the line.

    My current cars:
    Lexus RCF Carbon - it was 3 mths old, had done 4000km, guy had traded it in on a Audi R8 (he was one of those ADD guys that buys new cars all the time). Car sat on the lot for a few months. I ended up getting it for 5/8th of the new car price. It’s 4 years old now, the current used value is just below what I paid for it.

    Acadia - top of the range, dealer had 3 sales cancelled on them. I had the choice of white, silver, grey. $16,000 discount off list price. My depreciation is covered for 2-3 years.

    Don’t be impatient to buy - keep your ear to the ground, there are always deals coming up. You just need to be there to grab them.

    Or be flexible on colour or trim, as often the company has inventory they want to quit. My buddy was looking for a Mazda Ute - best deal he could get was $28k. I used my contacts to see what the wholesale deals were - they had a non desirable green colour in stock, my buddy wasn’t fussy and we got it for $22,000. He drove it for 10 years and sold it for $15,000. Nice!

    Another trick - keep an eye on the other brands yards for trade ins. 10 years ago, I saw a little ad in the paper from the Mercedes dealership, they had a near new Lexus IS250 at a really good deal. I went around to look at it, and couldn’t see it. I asked the dealer if they sold it. He said “we had to put it out back, because our Mercedes buyers were looking at it and asking why the Mercedes didn’t have all the stuff the lexus had in it”. Haha!

    I looked at the car, it was mint. It was $49k. The dealer was so keen to move it off the yard, he showed me the paperwork for what they had traded it for, and said “just pay us our $42,000 back that it owes us, and you can have it”. I transferred the money on the spot and drove it away 15 mins later. I drove it for a year and sold it for $50k lol. I think that’s the only time I ever made money on a car.

    Again - keep your ear to the ground for the deals.

    The same applies to everything, houses, factories, pinball machines ...

    rd

    #23 3 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    My goal is to never make car payments again.

    We started doing this about 4 years ago. Paid cash for toyota 4 runners with about 45,000 miles on them. We only owe on house now and it is crazy how much money we have left over at the end of month now.

    #24 3 months ago

    I had Lexus is200 when younger in my boy racer days had alot of fun with that

    My problem is I am very fussy when it comes to cars! Like this HAS to be white and the AMG line and a 2019 plate face lift. Having the ambient lighting / the new digital dash would be a bonus as well. Alot of people can walk into a dealership and be happy with many of the cars but for me it has to meet all my specs or I am not happy! which does put me at a slight disadvantage will agree. There is only 5 near me with this spec in my price range. And 4 of them is over 120 miles away this is only 50 so far closer.

    #25 3 months ago

    Not sure if already said but if buying new look for leftover models from year before.

    #26 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    Offered £24500 so about 1k under sticker they did not accept (asked for a better offer). Worth countering or just waiting for another?
    No credit this will be cash.
    Also did not realise how much uk road tax is now, for this car it’s £465 which is insane I swear it was only like £185 on my last bought car. It’s always included in the lease deal so you never think of road tax when leasing. Might ask for them to throw in free years tax or something. Do dealers get this cheaper?

    you made an offer on their asking price, now it is their turn to counter you .

    #27 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    Offered £24500 so about 1k under sticker they did not accept (asked for a better offer). Worth countering or just waiting for another?

    I managed to get almost $5k below sticker. At only $1k less, it sounds like they're not terribly interested.

    #28 3 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I managed to get almost $5k below sticker. At only $1k less, it sounds like they're not terribly interested.

    I agree I might leave it and wait for a better deal I still have 2 months to find one, and the longer I leave it the nearer the end of there quarter it gets so hopefully they become a bit more interested in offer discounts to meet sales targets etc...

    #29 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    I agree I might leave it and wait for a better deal I still have 2 months to find one

    Phone around the country.

    Someone will be keen to give you a deal.

    I used to buy all my cars from a dealer in Wellington, 800km away. He would put them on a truck and ship them to me. Easy.

    rd

    #30 3 months ago
    Quoted from fristin1:

    I sold cars years ago. People that came in with the Costco price always got near the best deal. Quick and easy way to do it.

    Same thing for AAA members. Some dealerships have Fleet Managers that only sell over the phone via referral from AAA or Costco, usually $800 over invoice.

    Call costco/aaa and ask for a list of fleet managers. Go to a couple of dealerships that don’t have a fleet manager, look at cars, test drive and figure out what options you want. Ask for quotes. Then call the fleet managers. I bought a Camry this way and the fleet manager price was over $1000 less than the regular sales reps. This is because they don’t get paid a commission, they get paid to sell a certain number of cars (a quota) and they have to sell every car at invoice plus a flat dollar amount. There’s no haggling on the price.

    #32 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    Offered £24500 so about 1k under sticker they did not accept (asked for a better offer). Worth countering or just waiting for another?
    No credit this will be cash.
    Also did not realise how much uk road tax is now, for this car it’s £465 which is insane I swear it was only like £185 on my last bought car. It’s always included in the lease deal so you never think of road tax when leasing. Might ask for them to throw in free years tax or something. Do dealers get this cheaper?

    Did they take down your "information" when you made the offer? If they did wait a few days and see if they call you trying to sell it to you again. Typically once they have your phone number they will do everything they can trying to make a deal. What I normally do is go in with my offer and if they say no I walk but tell them if they change their mind before I find something else give me a call. It is amazing how many times I have gotten a "no way we can sell it for that" and a few days down the road bought the same car cheaper than I originally offered for it. When they call I just tell them I found something else I am likely going to buy and next thing you know the deal gets even better.

    #33 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    Worth countering or just waiting for another?

    No credit this will be cash.

    DO NOT COUNTER, if you 'give in' first, they know they won the deal. Wait for them to counter.

    I've NEVER negotiated a car purchase in person. All my previous deals have been via phone. I will visit the dealer one time to kick the tires and meet the salesperson but I only tell them I'm looking. Once I'm ready, after doing all my internet research, getting pre-approved if applicable etc, I contact them again with my drive out details and let them do the "talk to their manager" bit while I'm in the comfort of my own home and not rushed.
    I've only had to walk out of a dealer once when the finance guy tried to pull some B.S., I had no sooner loaded up the wife and kids (whom were very young) and left the dealer when the salesperson was calling me on my mobile about what went wrong. I told him that I had told him they get ONE CHANCE at my business, they failed and I thus left. I think I was only 30 at the time.
    A few hours later, at my convenience, I went back and signed the paperwork that matched the numbers I told them up front. I was there less than 20 minutes.

    I often get involved when friends and family make large purchases, they know I negotiate for a living. I actually love the art of the deal. Boggles my mind that some people pay sticker, bless their hearts.

    #34 3 months ago

    Yeah they got my phone number, the sales guy actually phoned this evening he did not mention any numbers but said feel free to stop by and take a look if you like. I definitely won’t be paying sticker! But not quite sure what my next move is? Does it look to needy to go take a look or just wait and see if they call back with a offer? I still have 2 months left to search for one. This one does have the ambient lighting package which I wanted so that’s a plus

    #35 3 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    DO NOT COUNTER, if you 'give in' first, they know they won the deal. Wait for them to counter.

    Tom Hopkins "The first person to speak loses".

    LTG : )

    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Tom Hopkins "The first person to speak loses".

    Yep, that's where I got it, was required reading back in college.
    Could not recall who it was though, thanks!

    #37 3 months ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    I still have 2 months left to search for one. This one does have the ambient lighting package which I wanted so that’s a plus

    I'm also a proponent of if it is what you want, then get it. Do not compromise. If you are able to broker a deal YOU think is fair, it is for what YOU want, then you have won. End of story. You know there will always be someone who paid less and someone else who paid more than you.

    I'm always willing to pay a little more for exactly the model I'm after, even if it takes months to locate. My current vehicle was located about 300 miles from me, took approx 2 months to find, and the dealer had to send a driver to deliver it to me. That was in 2012 and I'm still driving it. It was EXACTLY the model in the color I was after.

    Happy negotiating!

    #38 3 months ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    I bought a 2016 Wrangler Unlimited last fall. There wasn't much room in negotiation, all the dealers I went to seemed to know they had the leverage.

    Almost went with the Wrangler but went with the Tacoma off-road. That was back in 2016. Might keep the Tacoma and buy a NIB Wrangler in 2 years.

    #39 3 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Yep, that's where I got it, was required reading back in college.

    I heard him interviewed on Larry King many years ago. Loved it. A little later he did a seminar in Minneapolis. 8 hours long, two twenty minute breaks. I went. Everyone there. Male or Female. Had their power selling outfit. White shirt, dark blue jacket, red tie. Me, I was the only one in street clothes.

    I had a blast. Only seemed like an hour long. I felt sorry for the small lady next to me. You did exercises with the person next to you. First thing was to introduce yourself and exchange business cards and explain the nature of our business. She gave me her card, she was a graphics designer. I didn't have a business card. I tore a piece out of the work book and wrote my name and number on it. I told her my business was coin operated games, and if she didn't let me put them in her business I'd have her knees broken.

    Every time we had to stand up, she seemed to get a little more nervous each time. She finally admitted I was much better at this than she was. I told her to relax. Learn and practice. The parts you can use will become second nature.

    What a great day !

    LTG : )

    #40 3 months ago

    I'll second the Costco process. Invoice pricing and dealer holdbacks are all available online. Purchased a new BMW at the end of 2018 for $600 over invoice and the dealer messed up allowing me to swipe the Amex for the full purchase price. Picked up 80K MR points, got a fair deal and was out of the dealership in 75 minutes.

    Used offers a buyer the most leverage as dealers typically have a ton of margin (previous customer trade ins, etc). Google the VIN as part of the research process and you can determine when the last emissions inspection or DMV update via Autocheck. This gives you a ball park idea of how long the vehicle has been on the lot. Remember you're purchasing a depreciating asset that loses value by the day (~$15/day) and the longer it sits on the dealer lot, they are paying the depreciation and want to move it.

    If you're buying from a publicly traded company, take a look at their last earning's report and check out the average gross margin per unit and that gives you an idea of how much leverage you may have. Just a few tips that most folks don't think about that work well.

    #41 3 months ago

    Some great advice here, not quite sure what this Costco process is or even we even have it here in the uk, it’s at a main Mercedes dealership so I can only assume there is some room on the price, it’s been there for at least 2 weeks from what I can see from the advert. All others are over 120 miles away but a closer one might pop up so that’s the gamble. I will probably stop by and see it on sat with my gf and youngest as she will want to test toddler seats (as they do Lolol) and will see what they can offer basically for me has to be £25k or under or I’ll walk

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