(Topic ID: 197455)

any advice on convincing an operator to sell an on location pin?


By Fusionwerks

1 year ago



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  • 77 posts
  • 42 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by hocuslocus
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 77 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Right now, there are 4 listed for sale. Asking prices are $5000, 4295, 4200, and 2995. These 4 listings are also looking for best offers. Go look in sold listings and of the sold history that is available, no JPs are in the sold listings. so, all of these asking prices are fiction.

One in Chicago for 2600 right now I think

#52 1 year ago

If you can find one in Dallas/Ft. Worth I am heading the way soon and can grab it for you. I go threw Fayetteville, AR on the way down and back. Just a thought and no I don't want any cash to help out. We need more pins in this state.

-1
#53 1 year ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

This is probably a long shot. Most career operators are hoarders and never sell.

Or money laundering.

#54 1 year ago
Quoted from Slim64:

One in Chicago for 2600 right now I think

Do you have a link?

#55 1 year ago
Quoted from Fusionwerks:

Do you have a link?

It's on "letgo"

Screenshot_2017-09-06-22-13-29 (resized).png

#56 1 year ago

I hear you op!
A decent creech sits alone under dirt and burnt bulbs neglected in a nearby pizza joint- just ignored.
Ive inquired, but the owner of the place doesn't even know the operator.
Must be hoarding situation because its not making much money at all.

Oh well.. they have animal rescue, how about pin rescue?

#57 1 year ago

Stack of cash in hand when you go for it is the #1 best option. You could also offer what is more or less a trade: buy another game, and sell/swap it with the operator's Jurassic Park. They probably don't care about which title it is, but more that there IS a title out there making money.

#58 1 year ago
Quoted from Slim64:

Can't believe people actually downvoted this.
I'm hoping the jam up guy was just being sarcastic or joking. But seriously. Don't mess with people's livelihood.

Well when you use the words "idiot and imbecile" to describe someone who was clearly makeing a funny joke you deserve to get downvoted. He needed to lighten up and realize the guy was just messing around. Take a chill pill

#59 1 year ago
Quoted from Mfsrc791:

Well when you use the words "idiot and imbecile" to describe someone who was clearly makeing a funny joke you deserve to get downvoted. He needed to lighten up and realize the guy was just messing around. Take a chill pill

it is not as funny of a joke when it happens to a game you have on route; trust me.

#60 1 year ago

to the OP, vid gives you the best advice possible on how to go about this.

I have rarely purchased games off operators and IME, the ones that are willing to sell will know what the value of the game is. If you are fair based on condition, have cash, and make it VERY easy on the toperator then you have a shot.

Dont be put off when they say no, as that is the most common answer you will hear.

#61 1 year ago

Yes my previous comment was a joke (sheesh). In all seriousness though if you need to have that specific JP, Vid/LTG advice is the best, 1)bring cash, 2)offer a set fair price, 3)say you'll never hear from me again, 4) be prepared to competently move on your own.

I wouldn't personally waste time trying to buy from operators. Just wait and you'll find what you want on the open market somewhere else.

#62 1 year ago

The regulars above me are mostly spot on in this matter:

DO NOT BUY A 25 YEAR OLD GAME AS YOUR FIRST TIME, PLAYED WHO KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES-- BEING ONE OF ONLY A HANDFUL OF PINS IN YOUR AREA.
JP is good - not great - and prone to some pretty well known failures (T Rex).
Local yocal ops (the don't return calls types) tend to speak highly of their own games' condition too...not always truthfully.

You can get a New in Box Stern PRO - any game you want, many better titles - delivered - for $5,xx0 or possibly less.
You dislike?-- you resell with ease and take a 10% - 15% hit--maybe.
You buy a money pit....you could be out thousands.

Just .02 from someone else much like you. (8 years and 90 pins ago....aahhhhhhh!)

#63 1 year ago

There is more than just having the money on hand.
A few extra tips from an "old dog".
However, if you have not done this before, I will upfront tell you, it is good time to get an experienced collector to be beside you.

Carry your wad of Ben Franklins in your pocket, which you flash "by accident" during conversation IN PERSON when explaining the offset in comparison to how much he can make in comparison to route operation.
DO NOT do this at the location of the machine, but rather at the operator's business location by travelling to meet the owner (not technicians) directly. If you are talking to technician when he is cleaning the game, you are already "doing it all wrong". Don't infer any significant experience "in pinball" to the operator owner, or it will simply be perceived as arrogance.

Always have some "flex" in the amount of value, and never tip your hand on how much you are willing to pay initially.
Learn how to negotiate, know who are really supposed to talk to which is the owner not the minions, understand the game's specific "Achilles heels", request a full technical inspection of the game or get assistance before final negotiation of the price (which is done on site), and know the base value of the machine in above average, fully working condition.

If an agreement is reached, be prepared by having a written printed fillable invoice in your other pocket with a pen which you can both sign at the time, as the operator will most likely not be prepared. This is commonly forgotten, and critical step. Use a witness, if possible, as some operator's can and will attempt to "change the deal" afterwards. Protect your interests, and IMMEDIATELY pick up the game under their supervision meaning have your tools and transport ready. Do not leave and "come back later" as you are looking for trouble for a whole host of reasons beyond this posting.

- TBK

Addendum: Another collector just located a NIB DE JP that was found in the care of widow of an old operator in the last couple of weeks. He bought the game for $500, although she offered the game to him for free as a friend. Truth is stranger than fiction.

#64 1 year ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Addendum: Another collector just located a NIB DE JP that was found in the care of widow of an old operator in the last couple of weeks. He bought the game for $500, although she offered the game to him for free as a friend. Truth is stranger than fiction.

I saw that post and it broke my heart...

#65 1 year ago

And to everyone that added insight to this topic, I appriciate it, but i have decided to NOT persue this particular machine any further. Since the start of this thread I have had numerous leads on this game far below the craigslist and eBay outrageous prices, and not too far from me. Thank you again everyone

#66 1 year ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Learn how to negotiate,

Excellent advice.

If you aren't a good negotiator, get a book on selling and learn. Tom Hopkins is my favorite author.

LTG : )

#67 1 year ago

But remember, the operator is NOT going to negotiate.

He does not want to sell the game in the first place.

If he wanted to sell it, he would have a sign on it, or have it on Craigslist. (in the old days, he'd take it to the auction).

You are not going to meet the op in his office somewhere to explain how much money he is losing by not taking your offer. His "office" is just a bay in an industrial park filled to the ceiling with stuffed animals for the crane games. No secretary, no fax machine, no land lines.

I have not seen a op with an actual office and desk in 30 years, and I service their machines all the time.

I he agrees to meet, it will be at the game's location. He'll take the last money out of the till. He'll take your cash. He won't write you a receipt. You won't get to do some close up inspection, he's in a hurry. You'll ask if he has any other games for sale. He'll say "Nope." He won't help break the game down, but he will stand around talking on the phone, to make sure you don't damage the door on the way out.

#68 1 year ago
Quoted from Slim64:

Can't believe people actually downvoted this.
I'm hoping the jam up guy was just being sarcastic or joking. But seriously. Don't mess with people's livelihood.

It seemed like a pretty obvious joke to me -- I don't think it would help get the op to sell the game. Then he attacked the person that made the joke. So yes, downvote, I don't think the jokester is an 'imbecile'.

#69 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

It seemed like a pretty obvious joke to me -- I don't think it would help get the op to sell the game. Then he attacked the person that made the joke. So yes, downvote, I don't think the jokester is an 'imbecile'.

Agreed, the "jam the coin return" (and include your name and address) suggestions had to be a joke. I'm sure that crap happens all the time to route games, but it's not going to help anyone get a sale.

#70 1 year ago

Maybe I am an imbecile! Who knows.

#71 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Go look in sold listings and of the sold history that is available, no JPs are in the sold listings. so, all of these asking prices are fiction.

I see two that sold just last month. One for $2400 and the other for $2750.

#72 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

But remember, the operator is NOT going to negotiate.

I have personally done every one of my referenced steps many times with success regarding purchase of pinball machines since the 1980s. This includes meeting the owner at his business/office after figuring out who truly owns the games. Does it always work? No, but skills in negotiation remain paramount for the buyer especially when it comes to buying games on routes.

Some of the best examples of games still in my collection were private negotiations with operators, while the games were still relatively new. This includes exported versions of game titles to Europe. Many are well over 20-30 years old now, but I bought another game under the same precedence about a month ago, so my methodology does work.

One critical part of negotiations is establishing rapport. An aspect often missed by the inexperienced.

It also helps to have professional business cards on hand and know fellow operators, if he is not known to you in a region.

The invoice aspect was clearly stated that the BUYER need to be prepared, not the operator, including means to break the machine down on location.

Please do not make attempts to discredit my experience. I have no reason to lead others down an incorrect path.

If you have personal issues with me, contact me offline.

#73 1 year ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Please do not make attempts to discredit my experience.

Who's trying to discredit you?

Don't take anything I say personally, because if I'm responding to you, I'll quote you. I'm not shy.

-

I work for the 4 largest operators in my state, right now, in 2017.

I hear about all the calls they get every day.

I've seen them play back their messages, and delete 3 in a row that were about buying a pin they have on route. The instant they hear "Hey, I see you have an old pinball machine at The Doll House...." they hit delete.

I see that NONE of them have a formal office. They might have had one 40 years ago, but it's a leaner business model now.

And anyone that has ever bought a machine from a real op knows, they ain't giving you a receipt. If you hand them a receipt book, they'll sign John Smith, or just tell you to Fnck right off. They did not stay in business through the lean years by getting hung up on a stolen game or implying that they are selling you a functional game.

#74 1 year ago
Quoted from SirScott:

I see two that sold just last month. One for $2400 and the other for $2750.

I went back and double checked by clicking on the "Sold Listings" box. . I checked using Chrome and also with Firefox.

I cannot find any JPs in Ebay's sold listings. Sorting by Highest Price + shipping, the highest priced sold item I see is a JP LED kit for $203.00. The 2nd highest priced item is a JP topper for $179.00.

How are you searching? Why are we seeing different things?

#75 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I went back and double checked by clicking on the "Sold Listings" box. . I checked using Chrome and also with Firefox.
I cannot find any JPs in Ebay's sold listings. Sorting by Highest Price + shipping, the highest priced sold item I see is a JP LED kit for $203.00. The 2nd highest priced item is a JP topper for $179.00.
How are you searching? Why are we seeing different things?

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&ad_machine_key=267

#76 1 year ago

I think it's silly to think that in today's advance of information and how hard it is to route a pin that an operator would not know the value of his machine.

I also think there is a lot of "old" experience is being told on this topic. As an operator I take exceptional care of my pins, all of them play flawless and all but one is beautiful inside and out (it plays super nice and is fully functional) also I am legit with a LLC, proper records keeping for taxes and not just putting pins up from my home.

A lot of the picture that has been painted in this topic is a dirty cheating operator that is evading taxes, doesn't take care of his equipment, who is very angry all the time, hordes equipment and sells to know one due to possible competition. This is not the case today.

I am happy to discuss selling a pin off route, not because there is something wrong with it, it's good to change the line up. I am happy to meet and discuss, break down the pin, help load, answer questions, but only to a serious buyer. I also encourage other people to become operators, I have helped one guy become an operator and helping another right now. I don't care about "competition". There are more places to put pins in today than operators can keep up with. I love to promote pinball and would love to see pins everywhere!

I will say this, don't go and offer up $1000 less than what they sell for, when a pin is sold another has to fill its place. It doesn't make since to take a loss like that. Also, don't offer up trades that are a lateral trade, it doesn't make since to move a good working and earning pin for one that is unknown, needs prepared for route and has a lot of leg work in moving stuff around. If it wasn't listed for sale, you have to offer up a reason to sell. A humble buyer will get a better deal from me than a know it all, aggressive one that is going to be a pain in the rear. I think most ops would sell if they weren't worried of having to deal with the pin again when it leaves.

#77 1 year ago
Quoted from Bud:

A lot of the picture that has been painted in this topic is a dirty cheating operator that is evading taxes, doesn't take care of his equipment, who is very angry all the time, hordes equipment and sells to know one due to possible competition. This is not the case today.

that's pretty funny... God I hate tax time, just finished my 2016 return last Saturday.

I'm always happy when I see new machines at different locations. I could careless about competition as far as pinball is concerned, the more the better. In my area the machine's I see the most - 7 or 8 ghostbusters mainly pro's and maybe 6 Star Treks, 3 AC/DC's. I know that's not a lot for some area's, but that's a lot for Houston. Hoping those numbers only get better with time.

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