(Topic ID: 224673)

Another Whirlwind playfield swap/refresh: CPR Gold second run

By dmacy

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by russdx
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“Another Whirlwind playfield swap/refresh: CPR Gold second run”

  • More playfield swaps from the average “Joe”. 17 votes
    81%
  • Enough, you’re another hack. 1 vote
    5%
  • Cats! 3 votes
    14%

(21 votes)

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#1 5 years ago

Will be documenting my own playfield swap which starts with a decent factory Mylar'd non Diamond Plate playfield with the most recent CPR Gold. Like everyone else, it has no dimpling on the back side and will need many top side holes drilled/opened/beveled. It has new Reese Rails and will be going with all new ramps, plastics, targets, and anything else found along the way.

I have my share of hacks I'll be cleaning up along the way. Most of which is from adding some lighting to the cloud and will be retained using some Molex connectors. The playfield has been curing for a year or more at this point. There's been great posts of suggestions, improvements, and changes from the community on how to work some of the issues and plan to be follow them. I'll use my original playfield as a dimpling template for the new one. It has a full Cliffy set on and will be transferring over. It also has LED's but many of the GI will be changed out for 2SMD style.

Here are some pictures of when I got the playfield. Note some of the holes aren't drilled all the way through like the slings, etc. They're drilled but not quite the full way through. Easy fix.

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#2 5 years ago

Machine with original playfield installed. It's in good shape compared to most. Mylar is lifting and peeling in a few areas. I had put the disk overlay area where the edges were worn down to the wood.

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#3 5 years ago

The new playfield needed buffed out as there were some scratches along the length of the playfield. They came out with some mild cutting polish on a DA and polished out. They didn't show up in photos, but they were there. Below is pre and post work with the DA. Waxed after and ready for rails.

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#4 5 years ago

Rails on and prepping pop bumper bracket twist screws. I've been using the black ones recently as I prefer the look. To counter sink these, I use a hand countersink tool. It takes more time but find it easier to control and removes material slowly.

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#5 5 years ago

Old playfield out. Hardware is being tumbled.

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#6 5 years ago

Gauging interest: does anyone really want to see another swap? Trying to add more pics, issues, and data points that help the average guy like me to help others or their own swap? I’ll add to a poll as it seems there’s not much interest.

#15 5 years ago

Ok thanks all; I’ll keep updating. Just wanted to avoid wasting space and this is nowhere near Chris’s level. Your work is art!

#16 5 years ago

Old playfield tear down pics:

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#17 5 years ago

More of the old top side. Note that plastic protectors didn't save the 3 drop target plastic.

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#18 5 years ago

Bottom pics:

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#19 5 years ago

More of the bottom:

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#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I am also curious being that yours is a second run if you have missing holes and or dimples on your playfield? Mine is only a Bronze, but its from the first run.

Interesting to note, mine is dimpled but very lightly. The bottom of the playfield isn't too bad but nearly impossible near the top. And yes, there are quite a few missing holes. I hope to document them side by side soon.

#22 5 years ago

Here's some pics I have on hand to show the dimpling. It's hit or miss but they are there. I did trace with contact paper on the old and transferred to the new, and dimpled holes look to be right on or close. Having two apart recently, you can see there's a lot of factory dimples not used by the factory so it goes to show it's still best to take a good look and triple check before cinching down.

New playfield Gold second run WW CPR:

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#24 5 years ago

I'll get your the specs on the screws although you can reuse the old ones as you likely are aware. With new rails I've been using new screws that are slightly shorter than the originals.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Do you have a source for the screws that hold on the rails? Keep up the good work it’s inspiring me to start the same swap

Original length is 1.25”. Using 1” in the new rails that I’ve been able to source at local hardware store.

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#26 5 years ago
Quoted from lurch:

This. Seriously. If not today maybe tomorrow or the next day this will help someone. Keep em coming!
BTW that original pf looks sharp. What cha gonna do with it?

Thanks. I’m hoping to sell it to someone. It’s in good shape especially if someone can put the effort in to remove the Mylar and clear it. I’ll be at York Friday.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I am also curious being that yours is a second run if you have missing holes and or dimples on your playfield? Mine is only a Bronze, but its from the first run.

So good and bad: spent a bunch of time getting some comparison pictures tonight. Others have shared too but I’ll try and clean them up and share.

Through Holes: Mostly all through post holes are drilled. You will obviously want to countersink them and may need to open them up. I’ll get some pics when I have my parts ready to install. Will measure and compare to actual pieces.

Dimples: As mentioned, most are present but some really hard to see. Personally I don’t mind this so much as it allows me to mount as needed. Often new playfield dimples are off anyway. But plan on added time regardless.

Wood Screw Holes: None, zilch, nada. You’ll want to take advantage of others recommendations. Old plastics as templates and some measurements.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I am curious as to how you made and use your countersink tool? I am going to use this and hopefuly HEPS Whirlwind threads to do mine.

Yes, me too! Wishing to see his work and cry lol.

The tool was/is the one all the usual suspects have and sell. Nothing I made! It’s really cheesy but it keeps me from overdoing it with power tools. I’m sure there’s a few different sizes that would be much better. But it does the job and what I’m comfortable with.

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#31 5 years ago

Here's a few comparison side by side pictures.

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#32 5 years ago

Hinge brackets. Loosely installed the 8-32 screws and then with 1/8” drill bit and drill stop pre drill.

NOTE: The screws for this and most every Williams/Bally machine I’ve done uses these course serrated under head hex screws. So keep note of them as they’re a hair longer than most of the other hex heads used.
Drill Stop setDrill Stop set
Pre drilledPre drilled
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#33 5 years ago

Organization will make your life easier and makes it go back together quicker in the long run.

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#34 5 years ago

Adjustment post plates. Reminder to always triple check the screw lengths being recessed. Nobody likes an extra “feature” on the playfield this way. Few pics of drill stop used, pre-drilling, etc. these use the short hex heads. I use a 1/4” DeWalt driver for screws removal and install but I’m not running them in balls-to-the-wall. I’d recommend hand installing and using for removal. And 18v is way overkill but what I’m used to using in my old trade years ago. The large set I have has lasted me a good 10 years and going. Batteries have been replaced a few time though.

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#35 5 years ago

Started on some top side marking. Using contact paper with sharpie for marking key locations. I’d highly recommend having the old playfield clean before you start this. You should have your new playfield cleaned and waxed already before this too.

Most all the through holes are done so it’s just the wood screws they need marked. I mark anything I can in sharpie. Then mark the screws needed with awl or similar.

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#37 5 years ago

I work in sections for a few reasons: may get distracted, it’s hard to get the contact paper easily pulled to start or move, and usually way easier to line up the marks. Remember that these holes may not be the best location as you can still be off. It’s still best to use this method with measuring and using the plastics, guide, etc. to verify.

Pulling off the new sheet carefully, transfer it over to your new playfield. It’s best to do this before you populate the top side as you can see I didn’t. Using the contact paper also makes a great place to make notes. I accidentally marked the ramp flaps holes but prefer to put the machine mostly together and make a fresh drill hole. The new ramps are so thick I find the original holes are always the best.
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#38 5 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

I really like the contact paper idea. That’s clever and I’ll have to use that for my next swap.

Thanks I wish I could take credit but learned from others here about it. Frisket paper works good too but harder for me to see and it’s really fragile.

#39 5 years ago

So far the couple of plastics I marked from the contact paper looked to line up exactly and worked perfect. In this case I’m again using 1/8” drill bit, manual countersinking, then installing the plastic spacer and screw. DEA265E9-927B-43F4-A435-449D8F60F627 (resized).jpegDEA265E9-927B-43F4-A435-449D8F60F627 (resized).jpeg
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#41 5 years ago

Post Locations on Rails and the two large ones on upper right of Playfield: A few sizes noted with the great idea of labeling from Mr. Chris from HEP. Excellent idea.

Overall:
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Bottom left where ramp mounts gets no spacers.
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Upper Right has two post holders. One is a two piece:
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Mid right by shooter lane:
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Upper left is two posts:
IMG_0184 (resized).JPGIMG_0184 (resized).JPG
IMG_0185 (resized).JPGIMG_0185 (resized).JPG

Upper Right on playfield are 3 1/8" (right side) and 2 7/8" (left side):
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#44 5 years ago

That would be great idea but I don’t have a scanner. And I’m pretty far along on this one now.

#45 5 years ago

Making some slow progress. Most of the top side hardware is installled with parts being ultrasonic’d and tumbled.

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#46 5 years ago

Most of the top side is finally cleaned and installed. I’m currently on vacation so progress is slowing down but I was able to get the common issue area with the post on these playfields not fitting working. I did open up the hole slightly by using the correct/original post. So wondering if there’s some discrepancies from one to another but with little effort I was able to get things to fit.

I am using washers on all the ball guides so that may be of help.
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#48 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I'm curious being that you restore games for a living what your guidelines for repro playfields are? Some say they are good to go from the supplier and others swear they need to be re-cleared. I'm curious because I can run my fingers along my First run repro and I can feel the edges of the inserts very faintly. Is that acceptable and should I worry about insert chipping? I don't feel like the inserts are raised, but also don't want to go into my swap worrying about future wear. IMO a new playfield should never have any issues with chipping or wear if clear coated properly.

I'm by no means doing this for a living. I like doing it but I'm not at that level and it wouldn't pay my salary for my day job. I do it for the fun of it. Chris H. (HEP) would be better to ask that question. But I will say I would recommend to anyone that is particular, get any of them professionally cleared as there are a lot of minor issues with all the repro's. A professional clear on top would correct it all and make it look nicer longer. But the truth is, most of us will play them and many of the issues are less than what they came out like new.

If you're feeling those issues, and you can't stop thinking about it: get it professionally cleared.

#52 5 years ago

Anyone else notice there’s an extra hole in their CPR? No big deal as it’s hidden under a plastic. Not sure what I’m going to do to “finish” off the extra hole but for now it’s a screw and nut.

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#53 5 years ago

Sorry about not putting in some quality cat pictures. Hoping this makes up for it.

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#55 5 years ago

Apron related parts were installed. Dimples weren't there as mentioned so used the contact paper method with measuring as confirmation. Parts still being tumbled; mostly mechs. Waiting for some more odds and ends parts and going with new Cliffy's, shooter lane protection, ramp protector, and lane guides.

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#56 5 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

It's about time, since I'm just here for the cat pictures.
That catnip fish in the last picture looks really familiar!

She loves that fish!

#57 5 years ago

I've posted this before, but I use a smaller Delta drill press a friend gave me along with a PinRestore rivet press kit (Used on a HF arbor press) and their materials. It works great but highly recommend buying the long dies too. You'll use both.

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#59 5 years ago

Great idea Vid! Now have another excuse to buy a TV!

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from Elicash:

Would love to see some details and pics on the shooter lane protector. Where do you get this and does it alter the way the ball sits/shoots out of the shooter lane?

I’ll post some pics when I get my orders in. It should cause no issues with the shooter lane. I’ve been using them as many others on here on many machines.

Bottom left is the shooter lane protector and where to order:
http://www.passionforpinball.com/whirly_pros.htm

#66 5 years ago
Quoted from Squeakman:

I prefer the Mantis protectors on new playfields because they fit inside. Its too bad he doesn't make one for Whirlwind. I am debating weather or not I want to put the Cliffy on the cellar holes or not.

I'm a fan of them too especially new playfields but yes, not an option.

#67 5 years ago

Have the lamp boards cleaned and installed, the wire loom holders, scoops, and mechs/associated are making their way back on. I'm swapping in some premiums for some old ones. Will need to order some more....

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#68 5 years ago

Pics of the top side mostly complete. Experimenting with using some blue posts in place of the clear ones on tops of plastics.

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#71 5 years ago

Honestly I haven’t had anything way off but I did open up the ball guides slightly which helps some. But not so much that there was much more than a friction fit. I’ve been through several and this hasn’t been bad other than dimpling that isn’t present or hard to see and several through holes not drilled. Again, annoying but not the worst thing like the CV playfields having the unnecessary hole in the back. Thank you again @mschonbrun for that.

The guides were tight at this spot but I didn’t have to bend or tweak the guides to make it fit. It really is going to vary from machine to machine. FWIW this was a January playfield. But really early 1969 lol.

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#72 5 years ago

Some progress. Riveting of plastics done along with the wheel mech.

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#75 5 years ago

I’m using the Marco ones wherever they’re sourced from. I used them on another and really liked them.

#76 5 years ago

Removed.

#77 5 years ago

Ramps as they came off. I did install the Cliffy side ramp protector way back but ordered a new one (Actually his whole kit) to install with the new ramps.

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#78 5 years ago

Rivets being removed. There's quite a bit and I will often replace with a 6/32 screw and nylok nut unless it affects ball travel or how a part attaching it won't fit or look right. The side wireform ramp clear plastic is a good example of needing rivets for ball travel.

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#79 5 years ago

Mechs are all almost ready to assemble. Whirlwind uses mostly 23-800's other than 5 or so other different ones.

Note, the manual is wrong and you need to order a 26-1400 wrapper for the cellar kickout coil. PPS/BAA sent the right ones according to the manual. I'm guessing a change early on?

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#80 5 years ago

Pop Lamp wiring. Following the original set up but trying to keep a bit neater than it came. Using air upholstery stapler and small 1.5 gallon compressor. Take a pop bracket to check as you go and don't forget to use new tubing. I use the butt of the nut driver to flatten down the ends of the leads that curl up when you staple them near the ends.

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#81 5 years ago

Finished of the mounting. Will need to get the lamp and switch harnesses ready and installed to move forward with this.

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#82 5 years ago

Regarding the shooter lane protector from Cliffy: Pretty easy install now or if in you game. Remove the apron and three screws need to be removed to install the protector. It helps to remove the rest of the screws while installing. Adjust to get the cliffy in place and not to block the hole and tighten down screws.

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#83 5 years ago

Switches are installed but a few. Missed this switch for the ramp that is really sloppy so will be ordering one...

As far as dimples for the lane switches, they're pretty off but it's better to line up perfectly, pre-drill and then cinch down anyway.
Bad ramp switchBad ramp switch
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#84 5 years ago

Pops are done other than running the solenoid harness and soldering. Lamp wiring is done with new spoons, diodes and clear tubing. Six pop bumpers makes this take forever! This is when you find all those hard yellow wires that are daisy chained with switches and lamps that are fragile and break off.

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1 week later
#85 5 years ago

Was away for a long weekend so just getting back into it. Most of the mechs are together and mounted with an exception of a few (coils being cleaned...) and I still need to order the ramp switch and order some premium LED's. It seems you're always out of the ones you need no matter how many you order.

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#87 5 years ago

New switch came in so wrapped up the switches and soldering. Ramps are done with exception of the ramp up/down ramp as I’m polishing up the hardware. All the solenoids/brackets/assemblies are installed with exception of the up/down ramp. Apparently I was shorted a coil wrapper.

Extra GI bulb for saucer kick out and planning to add some light to back of drop targets triggered with skill shot inserts.

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#88 5 years ago

Pics of new ramps.

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#89 5 years ago

Slight side bar:

I’ve started this RoadBlasters control panel refresh way back in the early summer. Finally getting back to finish it. Have a spare original with metal handles that I’ll keep as a spare and original.

Needed new buttons (they were flaky) and overlay. Otherwise was working fine.

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#91 5 years ago

I swap around between them and IJ but MM does stay in there mostly.

#92 5 years ago

Solenoid harness is installed along with all the flash lamps. Props to Planetary/Rick for shipping out the coil wrappers fast so I had them today (Sunday) so the up/down ramp is completed.

Flipper mechs are installed but have a lot of soldering to do now. Barring any major issues, it should be done this week.

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#93 5 years ago

Tested pop bumper and GI lighting. I'm comfortable with waiting until the playfield is back in the machine to test the insert lighting. There's a bunch lumped in the middle that could easily be moved around. Cool white 2SMD's in most of the GI with Warm whites in the sling and ball guides to complement the yellow/red/oranges down there.

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#94 5 years ago

Thanks to Freeplay40 for his new lift ramp. Mine is actually in good shape but wanted to go with as much new as I can.

Ramps are done with just needing to button down the main ramp to install.

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#95 5 years ago

Ramps are done. A few comments to hopefully help some others:

1. Regardless of where exactly your measurements are on both the lift ramp and mech, you will likely want to wait to mount these permanently when you install the ramp/lift ramp. I did have measurements exactly, but did still need to move my mech assemblies slightly. After some fussing and cussing, it's perfect. You need to make sure the lift pivot clears the radius in the rail guide up and down so it doesn't bind up. It may be of help to also hold of drilling and mounting your rail guide although if you have everything measured up correctly, it should be fine. It shouldn’t be a problem on a OE field but worth mentioning.

2. Ramp flap on the main ramp (vertical flap, not the lift ramp flap): everywhere I’ve seen on mine before the swap, others I’ve seen or worked on, and even others on the interwebz has the flapro the right of the main ramp (if looking at it). It would make sense you want it on the left side so it helps a smooth transition onto/into the ramp. I’m going with this method unless it plays like poo or any future alignment problems. With new thick ramps, maybe it’s more of a problem, but I have it set up on mine and the last one to at least appear to work well. Anyone else share what they did or how there flap is?

11/32" and 3/8" was what I needed to install the pivot (new replacement as the original was worn down pretty well).

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#96 5 years ago

Top side is pretty much ready other than back panel, apron and a few light sockets/switches I'll place when it's off the rotisserie.

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#97 5 years ago

Bottom soldering and wiring clean up. I need to add a few screws to the saucer eject, but I like to test it out in game play if it needs a slight tweak. Will mount the rear relay and top switch when playfield is off or back in the machine. Need to triple check a few things and insert lighting checking but should be back in by the weekend.

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#98 5 years ago

Playfield is installed.

Daniel the Tiger says hi.

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#99 5 years ago

Closing this out as it hasn’t been real productive for anyone and playfield is in.

#104 5 years ago

Thanks to all. I hope it gives some inspiration to at least one person to do their own.

Quick pic of powered up and working. Have some insert lighting and a target switch to check. Up/down ramp took some tweaking to work smoothly in play. Thicker ramp is causing some issues and corrections. Recommend anyone doing swap with new ramps to make final adjustments when playfield is in.

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1 month later
#108 5 years ago

Glad it will be of some help. It plays great and fast. I’m putting a Playfield-Protector on and will post when I do. The scores have gone down due to how much faster it’s playing but not much of a shock.

4 months later
#110 4 years ago

Thanks; it came out nice. I believe I included them to the new owner but not sure. I probably would at some point if I still had it. Sold it in December.

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Pinballrom
 
$ 27.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
4,600 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Greenwood, IN
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
From: $ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
7,500
Machine - For Sale
Bakersfield, CA
$ 90.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 

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