Yeah honestly you still don't get it. In your reply you're asking these elaborate questions regarding life, liberty, and who am I to judge, etc? Lol. And none of that has anything to do with my point. I simply pointed out people that don't play them may feel the price increases a bit more, and reevaluate the purchases. Never did I imply they shouldn't be allowed to own a CCC and never play it, and that we should all judge these people, scorn them, shun them, etc. LOL. As you imply in your melodramatic reply. You just read too much into my point. Way way too much. Relax and stay on topic.

Mechslave, you are so far from reality, lol, probably blinded by your game room. Soon only people in the position you are, be able to buy anything that moves, will be in this hobby.

Not healthy for pinball.

What position are you assuming I'm in?

Price increases suck, ok? Happy? But I was simply trying to rationalize the expense in a different way. As a truly engaging pinball machine, LOTR cost me $400 a year. At the end of which I sold it for more than I paid. So the cost was not only refunded, but justified along the way regardless of depreciation.

Evaluate the product before you rip up the price tag.

I don't agree with you so I don't "get it". You must have killed on the debate team. I didn't realize you're points we're immutable and mine were overblown and melodramatic. Que sera sera.

...and how exactly does one go about reselling that?

I agree! After reading hundreds of posts here over the last 2 weeks. I realize I fall Into to this category as I am not buying for making a income or an investment. It is for our enjoyment pure and simple and I am willing to pay a little more for a "toy" to be enjoyed by my husband and 9 children that everyone (most of us) will enjoy for years to come. Just like our quads and other outdoor toys. Yes they are pricy I agree but they sure are they FUN! I can't wait to get our first Pin!

Sorry I quoted nate1981s with my post didn't work. This is what I am referring to in my post.

@ mechslave

I know you were simply trying to rationalize the expense in a different way.

The point i tried to make was that you failed, lol.

I do undestand your point, but 8k for a toy is way beyond normal. There is not 1 argument that makes this sain.

Now..... should you buy when you can afford? Off course! Have fun, you have earned it, and i would probably do the same.

But that is not the discussion here. The discussion is, or should be: do you think 8k for pins is a healthy situation for pinball in generic?

I dont think it is.

Standards for 8K?!

What's the LE worth now?

I guess price increases are one way to make the LE's 10-12k like Jack's been saying for a few weeks now.

Anyone who has money down for a Hobbit should not back out. They will never be that cheap again. Either JJP is going to reduce the BOM or the prices will be five digits soon.

PT I am a newbie. What does BOM mean and I put a deposit on TH today...should I be worried?

Hmm, either way it's good for Jack. More money on WOZ future orders but even more money from the new TH pre orders that are sure to come now. People will want to lock in the current price to avoid future price hikes.

BOM is bill of materials (cost of all parts in a pin).
TH is The Hobbit. Next pin by Jersey Jack (makers of Wizard of Oz)

All manufacturers are going to continue to try and push the price line until they find a number that people will stop buying pins at. $8K was mine I'm out of STLE and would not pay that for WOZ standard or LE.

Thanks! I am still learning all the acronyms!

So ... did the price go up on you? Is the distributor asking $8k+ now?

I agree with The Dude. $8k was my limit too. I snuck a couple pin purchases in under it, but that may be it for a while.

"Tried" being the key word.

Ever bought a boat? Jet ski? Deluxe Pool Table? ATV? I suppose you could call all those toys in'sain,' but others could make the point that they feel the entertainment value surrounding those items and the joy it brings to their friends, family, and the memories make the purchases, in the end, fairly 'sain.'

If the product doesn't justify the price to you, cool, don't buy. Obviously if you buy kayaks and use them twice, hang em up where they collect webs for the next three years, then they aren't worth as much to you as a someone who kayaks every morning for three miles before breakfast. You probably don't want to spend as much on your kayaks as the guy who uses it every day.

You keep saying you disagree with this point, but don't really offer up any reasoning.

Well, it might not be. But wait and see? How much time have you put on a WOZ? How far into the future can you see? The system has so much potential that I'm not sure it'll be fully realized this time next year. Why were $4800 pins which could've been plucked from 1992, with next to no innovation and often worse art, which in no way gave the average person any extra incentive to play pinball over a twenty year period, why were those machines any better for pinball than an $8000 next generation machine with new features designed to enthrall the general public, offering a complex and engaging ruleset for a deep players' game which will not grow old (hopefully) for many years?

Like I said, evaluate the specific product without drawing conclusions based on a generalization founded in an imaginary cost ceiling.

Would anyone have any idea about what the cost of materials would be? Electronics really can't be THAT much when you consider that a top of the line gaming computer can be had for sub-$2k anymore. The WOZ LCD monitor is probably one that can be bought for anywhere from $200-300 given the way prices are now (maybe cheaper in bulk?). Stainless is indeed very expensive, but I can't imagine JJP is using enough to really hurt the price.

I don't know anything about the cost of parts in a machine (bumpers, ramps, etc), but LEDs are cheap, especially in bulk.

I'd be interested to see a cost breakdown of a machine...Labor is probably not cheap, and of course design of the table and game is probably pretty expensive. Art is ALWAYS expensive since it's a very skilled "trade".

As someone looking to buy their first machine (which will likely be a relatively newer production), creeping price does worry me.

Exactly.

Funny to see you get thumbs down for stating the obvious.

Or you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jimmy but ya doesn't hasta call me JJP Jr.

ray J.jpg

I was very interested in the standard at $7300 with the Invisi-glass and shaker. I had read a while ago that was to going rate. At $8000 I am no longer interested.

I get more fun out of 30k worth of pins than the 75k pool. Most of us have some fun cars or Harlys etc. Its the same but in my opinion better : )

I thought this pinball market was crazy a year ago, it's jumping to all new levels
bubblesBar11307_450x197[1].jpg

That is what happens to a business that fails to provide a product at an affordable price. Someone else can fill the need...

I had a ton of fun with my ACDC Premium that I played for 10 months before selling it slightly below purchase price.
I have a WOZ now and given the price increase, expect I might even make some money when it's time to sell.
Of course nothing's for certain, but you can understand why I'm not too too worried about paying a hefty price tag for a pin.
That is, of course providing that it's a AAA title. I got snagged on Avengers and lost about $400.
Still, all things considered, given the amount of play time I've had on these things, it's not a terribly expensive hobby.
Pretty comparable to cable TV if you ask me.

Thread saved for requote Now where is my kettle black gif.

Hmmmm

After shipping (& waiting until who knows when) it's what $8500 for a standard?

That's a...
HUO Tornado Foosball
HUO Metallica Pro
New 60" HDTV
New recliner
Used kegerator with a new keg & co2
A nice multicade
Xbox 360 with Grand Theft Auto
Used coinop dartboard
New ipad with fatty headphones
Small cigar collection with a humidor
A stock of several aged rums with a nice crystal glass
$100 of Chinese takeout

Shove all that in a corner & surround yourself with epicness

Edit: Deep fried cream cheese with corn syrup & imitation crab sound good right now

Too funny. They haven't even shipped the preorders from two years ago and they are taking prices up again. They just lost my money..........

I think I am best suited to be a bottom feeder and live off "B" titles for the most part. I could never drop that kind of money on a pin, much less leave money out there and have to wait for it to built for a long time. Seems a little over the top spendy, but it if it's floating enough peoples boats and their buying, then more power to them and I hope they enjoy their game, (when they finally get it).....

mmmm.....$100 of Chinese food. Crab rangoon for everybody!!!!

^^^ You cannot unsee that. Thanks.

Maybe I will get slammed for this but......am I the only one who dosnt care if I have to wait till next year for TH and not have to spend a large chunk when it comes out because it been paid for ahead of time with manageable payments leaving me the funds to be able to shop around for other games knowing my first ever NIB box pin is all looked after. ( Yes I read all the drama about the first preorders ECWOZ and not knowing if the games would be delivered....ever and the crazy start up busness model but that is no longer the case I hope) I am also ok with the prices BUT keep in mind I have ONLY been shopping for Pins a couple weeks and I am seeing all sorts of games that are between $5,000 and $8,000 Such as MM, LOTR, Indiana Jones WOZ, Star treck LE that I want. So what's $2,000 more to buy NIB when the going rate for used is so high. Speaking as someone who has JUST come into the market and seeing the price of the games I want the only option I have is to pay what being is asked as I have never seen all these "cheaper " prices most of you have in the last few years. So Infact YES there is folks Comeing into the Market that will pay these "crazy" prices because that's all that's out there right now and all we know. I have been searching for the pins I want for cheaper but they don't seam to be out there. (Wonder why?) If us newbies can find them then we will buy them for cheaper but as long as the prices stay up we have no choice as newbies but to support the market as it is. JMHO as someone who is buying thier first Pins.

ETA: So if anyone out there has any of the above games they want to sell me "cheaper" so I am not forced to pay a few hundred dollars more for a NIB Let me know! I am all for helping bringing the prices back down (JK)

^^^

how did you decide what pins you "want"? there are TONS of fun pins that aren't "a-list" ones that cost far less... it sounds like as "newbie" that you have simply decided "a list pins are the best so that's what i want"... that's a very dangerous trap to fall into...

fwiw, "it's just $2k more for a nib, so might as well buy one" isn't great logic...

national_lampoons_pinball_machine.jpg

Play these pins first if you can and decide what kind of style you like.....take your time and most of all be "patient"!................

Don't buy into the LE hype, wait until the market adjusts, STLE is a perfect example, at 800 of those you will be able to pick up one MUCH cheaper down the road if you want one after you play it, AND after the code is done, wait a few years for that to happen.....

Lmfao

That's funny as.....PBW, is that you? Kind of looks like Curly?.........F ing hilarious

No, this is me

My target at the end of the range... High pinball prices lol

image.jpg

ManicMama, I agree. I have purchased two older pins, one of which I still have. I have never had a NIB pin. But right now, I have fully paid for a WOZ ECLE that will be delivered in December or January and I have ordered TH LE and am current on my payments up until next January. My wife and I have met and talked with Jack; we are both very comfortable dealing with him and with our decisions. Fortunately, these two pins are well within our entertainment budget and we are looking forward to their arrival. Welcome to pinball; it is as crazy as you want it to be!

_{Post edited by txstargazer3 : fixed mixed up pronouns}

Somehow, I picture you as "Kenny F ing Powers"........

Damn Wolf, that is some funny ......

PBW.....no doubt....

kenny.jpg

JJP's new slogan:

"JJP: The Price Increase Leader"!

what's the price of TH right now? a year and a half before it's out?

ahhhh plenty of time to pump up the price a little bit.

$10K by next Christmas doesn't seem so far fetched...

ManicMama.....sounds like you have the fever.......welcome!!! ( it doesn't get any better, btw)
Buy what YOU like and YOU can afford .....it's sort of that simple....lots of great people on here that have helped me, and happy to give their opinions......but at the end of the day, enjoy this great hobby..............mark