I sorta assumed he was doing it as a tax write off
(Topic ID: 257626)
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4 weeks later
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:The same shit, no real updates, no progress.
Eventually you guys will realize this is 100% a scam
Yeah but what kind of scam? I still lean towards it's him writing his homebrew hobby off as a business expense on his taxes.
I don't think he has ripped anyone off though (besides maybe the Don Knotts estate - and that whole Todd Tuckey book situation). Hopefully his contractors are getting paid since someone else is doing a lot of the design work
1 month later
Quoted from PinballBuzz:Who did we scam? Please show your proof before posting total lies. It’s morons like you that ruin this industry.
Pretty large homebrew project.
Are you a homebrew project or a commercial business?
Because you come off as the former, but probably report it like the later...
I don't really care either way.
Don't speak ill of Chuck Tingle. He is a true artist
(I once got modded just for posting some of his book covers before, so watch out)
I actually think the art is probably the best part of the project thus far. I could nit pick some parts of it, but overall it's solid. (Not an award winner, but totally competent and comparable to a lot of commercial art packages)
I'm willing to give you props where deserved.
like a nitpick would be, why is the red band on that side of the ball guide?
it seems like part of the playfield art ended up on the ball guide. Or at least it looks a bit funny
edit something else to nit pick, the Exit arrow should probably be in the outlane area, not on the ball guide area
Quoted from dr_nybble:PinballBuzz do you have the rights to use any of that artwork on your site? (I seem some art from https://www.menyhei.com)
PinballBuzz has been documented stealing photos from the homebrew section on pinside for use in his videos. So it's not outside the realm of possibilities
Come on man, we all saw you lift a render from a homebrewer's project and then put it into your video without any sort of permission
Don't gaslight us. Just own up to it for fuck sake.
Quoted from toddtuckey:I wanted to be RICH and FAMOUS---and Andrew promised me the WORLD! Now, I am just a sack of SHIT!
Hey now, you’re the sack of shit that let the rest of us realize the type of person who was really behind this company
Can you imagine the customer service if you had an issue with his game (if he ever actually finished one)
Thanks for being our shit bag canary in the coal mine. (And for the years of great content)
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:We like you, Todd. Sorry you got screwed over.
Any inside info to share on what the heck is actually going on with these Pinball Adventures making pinball plans? I certainly don't understand the angle of years and years of (presumably) spending money on ever-changing concept artwork, parts R&D, storage space, subcontract manufacturing, etc, etc to still not release even a crappy game.
It seems like he’s racked up a lot of “business” losses over the years. Where’s a Canadian tax attorney when you need one?
1 month later
Quoted from Smack:I don't think this has changed since before Expo '22 of which they said they would be there to demo games. But with all of the "innovations" being added and tweaked I fear what looks like a mostly complete game is never going to see the light of day as there will be continual excuses and setbacks. At least a deposit is only $50 if you for some reason wanted to throw your hat in the ring. Ahh shit they are out of stock
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/thoughts-on-pinball-adventures-/page/3#post-6955042
Hmm
Bill backed out at some point of Game Number 1
Is the controller board the one designed by Team Pinball, who did some of the game designs and The Mafia before?
What I've seen of the backbox for Pinball Adventure and The Mafia appear pretty similar. A custom controller interfaced with a raspberry pi.
2 weeks later
I was taking a gander at their instagram and noticed that the punny-factory url is now pinballadventures.com/punny-factory-2. If you go to pinballadventures.com/punny-factory you can see the older page was updated with an avalanche of SEO terms
Also the hydro dip process looks incredible for people who love rainbow clown puke in their pinball machines.
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:On the other hand, no preorder dollars.
Just hope you the rest of the design teams got paid
1 month later
It looked alright. No interest in owning one or playing it more than maybe once, but I can’t deny it exists.
Quoted from PinballBuzz:We have no interest in you owning one, but we can't deny you exist. Why do you even bother to keep posting negativity? We get it, you do not like us, point taken so just move on dude!
It’s your friendly charm that keeps me coming back.
I sent an email to Don Knott's daughter just letting her know about stuff like this
(Also downloaded a copy if any lawyers need to see this later. So when Andrew starts to DELETE ALL THE THINGS, holla at your boy TreyBo69)
It took Spooky what, about a year to sell 150 AMHs? And that was with a community that actually like Charlie and co on a personal level.
I think this will be more like Cosmic Carnival only making 25 or so of a planned 100-150 or Mafia only making 10 of a planned 100. Are there any official distributors? Doesn't seem like it
Original IP build in small boutique numbers is a hard sale, even before the documented nastiness from the company.
Yeah, let's see how it goes.
I'm just surprised that Homepin can get distributors to sign up for Spinal Tap. The nice thing about the distributors is it's some guaranteed sales, at a small discount, and it gets the game in front of people. Original IPs desperately need that exposure.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the key players from The Mafia are on this project as well. Like I know it's their boardset
3 weeks later
Speaking of rip offs, I think this page was written by Chat GPT
https://www.pinballadventures.com/pinball-leg-guide/
Because it seems somewhat original at times, while also having large verbatim lifts from sources like this
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:That stuff predates ChatGPT. Definitely ripped off. Just the old fashioned way.
Ah. I'm sure there are other pages like that.
I wasn't even trying to find this. I was looking up pinball legs for another reason. Andrew's SEO game is on point
As an aside, Google reverse image search has made huge strides the past few years if you feel like knowing where Andrew is "acquiring" art
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Share some choice links?
A lot of it, maybe all of it, is from Art Station. It's a storefront for artist. What was and wasn't paid for, Idk. I won't speculate too much more
Some of them are actually easy to trace back because Andrew didn't rename the image files when he reuploaded them.
Honestly the site is littered with stuff stolen/used-without-attribution from various pinball people. I PM'd some others just to let them know.
Just start reading the blog that he somewhat buries
Dozens of copy and paste articles with a smorgasbord of SEO terms
https://www.pinballadventures.com/category/pinball-adventures/
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Have you PMed the Knotts family?
I sent a random comment on his daughter's contact me page, but with a throwaway email. That was about as far as I was willing to pursue it.
Quoted from koji:oof. It's like one of those find the difference kids puzzles. Wonder if there is a old JJP document where they are more similar. It's a bit odd to make the changes that are in place. Guessing a poor choice of contractor for the manual, but who knows.
I looked at the WW manual in particular, because I assume that was one of the more recent ones when this manual was made.
It's clearly a JJP game in the photos... Even shows their internal components in the photos of how to put the game into service position. (Also how you know it was a more recent JJP as the game boards aren't in the bottom of the cabinet)
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:The entire mod community is littered with stolen/used-without-permission IP's
Do you PM those companies also?
Whataboutism
And I have before...so not sure what your point is lol
Andrew might be a fun guy to hang out with. But he's also pretty well documented at ripping off people in the hobby and then doubling down on it, sometimes in a very obnoxious way.
Next time you're hanging out with him, ask him about his book series with Todd Tuckey and when his unofficial biography of Todd is coming out
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Interesting. That stuff had been up for years and its stolen nature previously commented upon. Perhaps he's only taken note with the higher visibility of this thread (and treybo's documentation diligence).
If Andrew plans to remove all content that appears plagiarized or for which he does not have usage license, rights, or permission, it's going to be one empty website (and a pinball shop with no pinball machines for purchase).
I can keep going with blatant examples too. Here is one where he edited it down from 10 games to 3. So crafty!
3 Greatest Older Pinball Machines - Pinball Adventures - Pinball Adventures.pdfThe 10 Greatest Pinball Machines of All Time _ The Robot's Voice.pdfAlso just to say, I wasn’t looking for the infringement originally. I googled a question about pinball legs and Andrew’s whiz bang SEO made it a top result, along with flippers.be (a resource I’ve enjoyed for years)
I think Punny is an adjective.
Also, let’s get real. The script of this game was written by googling “101 fun puns”
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Yeah, this is what I did to see what was going on.
PS, because of fair use I'm launching my own pinball company whose first game will be Pun Factory. The machine and marketing materials will repurpose most of Andrew's assets but will be centered around the name, image, and likeness of Norman Fell.
Do you take wire transfers for preorders, or just bitcoin?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I'm flexible. Glad to steal your money however you want to get it to me.
As long as I have no avenue for re-compensation for a subpar product, I think I'm good.
Quoted from flynnibus:No, redrawing something does not grant you fair use. Learn the difference between parody and promotion.
It's actually interesting to hear producers on South Park and The Simpsons talk about the back and forth with their legal departments to make sure which designs are clearly fair uses and which are parodies that are "clearly differentiated, yet reminiscent" of the IP. People were terrified of Disney before they bought almost everyone...
Quoted from CrazyLevi:In the futurama staring the original Star Trek cast, legal wouldn’t give them the ok for Nimoy to be drawn “with the ears.”
They REALLY wanted to use the ears.
And James Doohan said "no way" to doing that episode, so they made Welshy to replace Scotty, who just so happened to look a lot like a more modern James Doohan
Quoted from flynnibus:But hey, we’re just trolls on the internet telling the head of a company how basic intellectual property works …. I mean he’s big and successful!!
And somehow it’ll be our fault for company failures by simply making external observations of how the business operates and presents itself.
Quoted from toddtuckey:I thought you would all enjoy one of Andrew's responses to my QR Code idea I wanted to do.....and see for yourself and how his "Staff of 12" thought QR Codes are SO outdated! (my "book" he completely botched was released in October. Of course, QR codes are HUGE now, and all pinball manufacturers and pretty much everyone else does too...but the PIgeon Folks say they are "OUTDATED!" Just SOME of the WISE WORDS of Andrew!
On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:26 PM, Tntquality <[email protected]> wrote:
Let's put a qr link for the YouTube videos on bottom...Frank's idea..so the book will be more helpful...each page can link to the videos I list
Todd N. Tuckey TNT Amusements Inc.
On Friday, May 4, 2018 Pigeon Patrol Sales <[email protected]> wrote:
I am willing to put at the back of the book where we are creating a reference to the games that you have explained the code. However this will determine on the space available.
A quick poll of our office of 12 staff, everyone said that the codes are outdated and that they would never use them and only two staff have ever used them in their life since you need an app.
We will see what space we have available.
ANdrew
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
Quoted from Smack:Are we just fuelling excuses for Andrew not to bring this pin to the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show? We'll find out in just over 1 week!
Not putting their new game out in front of a lot of potential customers sure would show us trolls how to run a business the right way.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Well, sure.
But I can't imagine a more spectacular downfall for a pinball company - at least in entertainment value - than one caused by an all-out assault from the estate of Don Knotts and Andrew Dice Clay himself.
Deeproot was years of lulz topped off by a SEC investigation. Hard to top that shit show...
I imagine those books are pretty cut and paste low effort like a lot of "joke" books on Amazon. I can't imagine the flood of AI books on Amazon now...
1 month later
The playfield looks like shit, both the print quality and clear coat application. But let's talk about the wire bundle for a second...
It has barely enough slack to put the head down, and almost all the wires are the same color. Good luck troubleshooting when it inevitably breaks. Hope you don't stretch any wires to the point they screw up connectors or break inside the insulation. (And I'm hoping there's a ground strap between the head and body not pictured)
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Who wants to hear this shit? It amazes me that somebody would buy a game like this and expect anything but a disaster.
When it comes to pinball scams, I've completely lost patience for the suckers who embrace them, and I'm in full "blame the victim" mode. When you sign up for something like this, you are getting what you paid for. It's a "roll of the dice" and all part of the experience!
d0n probably figured he could flip the game as "rare"
he was gobbling up Haggis preorders when he thought those would be rare
Quoted from toddtuckey:Andrew's NEXT game WILL be a SMASH! "ELEMENTS" and you will be able to see and play BOTH at his booth at Pinball Expo in October!
Todd your optimism and enthusiasm is contagious. The next one will be better
GO PINBALL ADVENTURES!
1 week later
Whenever I get bored, I look at Andrew's site. It's the best
https://www.pinballadventures.com/fruit-o-matics/
>Fruit-O-Matics Pinball Machine is the perfect mix of Pokemoon[sic], Indiana Jones with a touch of the Smurfs. Fruit-O-Matics entertains on so many levels you won't be disappointed
Quoted from Haymaker:did he change the description already? I can't find that particular wording. If he saw this and then immediately changed it that would be pure comedy
He hides it in the meta tags for SEO reasons (helps to spell the infringing property correctly though)
pasted_image (resized).pngWhat’s the Venn Diagram for fans of pokemon, smurfs, Indiana Jones, and pinball?
I like three of the four, but hate pinball
1 week later
53 games so far if my math works out. That's more than some of the other notable small boutique games like The Mafia and Cosmic Carnival. (I think more than new RAZA preorders? That is if you discount the Zidware preorders and the ones Mueller bought for himself)
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Lol.
If they have actually built and shipped 53 punny factory games I will happily tattoo the pun of Andrew’s choice on my ass.
Based on their build status page, it's more like 6 have been built (as they have statuses for games 1-20, except for 6 numbers)
Which sounds about right. It sounds like there are 2-3 in the USA, 2 in Canada, and 1 at the factory
2 weeks later
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:What is?
the game where some of the shots go nowhere and just bounce back at you
3 months later
Quoted from Haymaker:I have no reason not to believe him.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from koji:Deleted post
Andrew McBain is going to be Bob Mueller's industry expert witness.
Andy has shipped more games than Blobert!
Quoted from gandamack:What is a Punny anyway? Is it like a Pun?
Idk but there is 50 of them, and apparently no one has been able to get more than 2 in a single game
Quoted from koji:It would not have surprised me if sales increased after that event...
why? no one wants this thing...
See also Captain Nemo, WOOLY, Cosmic Carnival, and similar
Maybe if it had a really sexy art package. But this? Nah...
Magic Girl is really the only exception to the rule. And that is because of its batshit history and incredible art package.
Rare games are rare because no one wanted them....
1 week later
Quoted from Beechwood:It's ok, they will totally redeem themselves with their pin about flying on an airplane. I mean, who of us haven't been waiting for a theme based on something very few people like to do and consider it a necessary evil?
Next to a pin about being in a hospital on life support, I can't think of a better theme.
I don’t know if that airplane game will get off the ground.
Still optimism is sky high as sales are expected to soar from 4 to as many as 5
That is if they don't just wing it
1 week later
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Did the PF smokestack topper materialize for the machines that have been made?
Vaporware
Quoted from Beechwood:They outsourced production to the butter factory who will churn them out. They're pretty slick.
They melt under the heat
Wasn’t he going to make a game about Canada and Mounties? Maybe it’ll be a retelling of this story with fair use of Don’s appearance
Quoted from Smack:I don't quite get this part. It's the machine supposed to be restored before it gets shipped back?
I've also never bought NIB. I would have figured that most dealers/manufacturers would not take 100% payment on a credit card due to the risk of chargebacks let alone the processing fees. Is this common?
Most want a wire transfer. But most dealers don’t also make the machine…
I imagine those actual pinball companies can absorb a few chargeback disputes
A friend had initiated a chargeback with Spooky over a poorly built TNA and months of inadequate remote support. Spooky offered a refund if he shipped it back at his cost. He didn’t agree to it. His CC sided with him and their attitude was Spooky should come pick it up on their dime if they wanted it back.
Ultimately Spooky fixed his particular game. Although he had to drag it to a local-ish pinball show for their people to spend a few hours troubleshooting shorts. He dropped the chargeback.
Most companies don’t threaten customers with contacting the police and earnestly try to find a solution… and TNA is worth the hassle vs Punny Factory
Quoted from mbwalker:Punny Factory employees.
The workers need to seize the means of punduction.
Sorry. Puns about communism aren’t fun unless everyone gets them.
Quoted from Haymaker:This is sounding more and more to me like the CC dispute isn't settled yet, but Andrew knows hes going to lose, so he's doing everything he can to try and just get the game back before he has no recourse. He should have learned you attract more bees with honey instead of ramping up the police and lawsuit threats that will go nowhere. Sending the game back now just sounds like a recipe for Andrew to weasel his way out of paying a full refund as he suddenly "finds" other flaws in the game and then at that point its too late to get the credit company involved.
From what I understand, the CC company has reached out to Andrew but Andrew hasn't responded yet, so everything in the recent e-mails is essentially another Andrew lie.
This soap opera won't have a sudsden ending
Quoted from Beechwood:For those who think Punny Factory is a bad theme
I think if he just called it "Punball" people would get the idea vs "punny"
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:What's Avi up to these days?
Last I talked to him he had a falling out with John over a repair bill
All can be true
- d0n should have known what he was buying
- d0n should have known whom he was buying from
- PA sent him defective junk
- d0n is an ass
- PA should have known he was dealing with an ass
- PA should have remedied the situation
- PA should not have threatened an upset customer with mounties
- d0n should not have to pay to send back defective junk
- PA should not take credit cards if they aren’t ready to deal with the ramifications
- everyone can be a loser
- d0n has a great CC company
Quoted from Beechwood:In the case of D0n v. Punny Factory, on the matter of a credit card refund, we the jury find for the Plaintiff.
On the second matter of the Punny Factory theme being an insult to the pinball community and mankind as a whole, we find the Defense guilty of crimes against humanity.
Throw that fucker off the roof!
What did the parking lot do to deserve this? It's always being taken for a ride
Quoted from Mr68:To be precise, he purchased two Punny Factory's
d0n was trying to be more frugal, but it’s a tough sale
Quoted from Mr68:I would like to accurate also and am searching for it. My recollect is he had a second game on order but canceled after the first one.
Can someone confirm?
Haymaker, do you know what I'm talking about?
d0n
>I contacted andrew and he promised to send a populated playfield.
Andrew
>The deal was you were going to buy another game and we would swap out the populated playfield, thus saving money on the shipping. You changed the deal when you decided not to buy another game , but we fairly offered a brand new playfield shipped to you like any other company would do.
I think it was d0n was supposed to buy a replacement game, take the good playfield out to swap, and then sell the junk one to someone else. (why not just keep the new one and sell the old one at that point? Reasons, that's why)
Quoted from Mr68:Looks like d0n would have been the majority owner of Punny Factory's. How many did they actually make?
Kinda reminds me how he was trying to corner the market on Fathom Mermaid preorders while also seemingly trying to scare off other customers so the rare game would be even rarer.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Genius plan except for one thing: it requires another human to voluntarily exchange money for a punny factory pinball machine
Just need to rebrand it and put it on location in Mayberry
IMG_4378.jpegQuoted from Beechwood:He should donate it to the local prison, talk about true punishment!
cruel and unusual punnyshment
Quoted from Tranquilize:There not selling anything over their.
I see what you did they're
Quoted from Smack:They are up for sale on my local FB Marketplace. I am seeing a Standard for $6000 Canadian which perhaps is a typo? Still ain't worth it even if that is priced in loonies.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/265535842835347/
Idk, but at $6,000 CAD, that is $4,400 USD. Which yeah....still too much
Quoted from PismoArcade:Is this a first? The owner of a pinball company selling his unsold pins on Facebook Marketplace?
Oofa.
Don't worry, I'm sure he's properly collecting sales tax as the original manufacturer selling direct to consumers
Quoted from Yoko2una:Allow me to be in that group.
I had the pleasure of wasting $1 on this PoS last night out of sheer curiosity. First thing I noticed when I started the game was the artwork went all the way down the shooter lane... which means there was no shooter lane groove routed... which means the ball could be off center. Speaking off things not centered, I believe the plunger was too low as well. How do I know this? A full plunge would airball into the plastic over the entire lane and fail to make the long entrance into the orbit. It just came back down. Rinse and repeat.
A soft plunge wasn't hard enough. A full plunge would reject. Therefore you had to find the Goldilocks zone where it was hard enough to make it up, but not too hard to airball into the plastic above the shooter lane. So basically if you can get the ball in play you should be awarded a skill shot!!! Or at least the game should pause and ask if you now would like a refund.
Let's see, what else. *Squeak squeak squeak*. Flippers had no travel yet way too much power. Airballs off the center targets all day, rejects out of the factory saucer, and yet no good feel to hit all the side targets due to lack of flipper travel. The vari-target had the resistance of a wet noodle on a hot day, and the rest of the layout was a bore.
Someone mentioned above that these now may be $4400 USD. I can probably list 100 games I'd rather have for $4400, and some of those would be overpaying, but still would be a better deal.
gotta have those strong flippers for all the ramps...oh wait
1 week later
Quoted from LORDDREK:I finally played this trash last night because there was a free credit on it. No channel cut in the playfield made it fail to plunge 9/10 times. If you are going to cheap out on the most basic requirements at least make it work. Don’t put a metal cover 6” from the rod leave it open so it can rattle its way up. If you can’t get a ball in play nothing else matters. Total fail…
How many puns did you press? No such thing as bad press
Programming a CNC router to cut a shooter lane groove is slightly harder and more involved than just making holes in a playfield. It takes minutes to do. The main thing is you need a different cutting head and to vary the plunge depth along the shooter groove. (Or you can make a template and do this by hand with a hand router)
They could have also just used some wire rod to function as a groove, like what Stern did for Star Wars Home/JP Home
1 week later
Quoted from Beechwood:I tried to drill through this whole thread, turns out it was just boring.
you just hit pay dirt
Quoted from PismoArcade:Andrew's threat to "air Don's dirty laundry" in a lawsuit seems like a violation of SLAPP, but what do I know? And why bring up his Air BnB account?
I'll never understand why people like Andrew and Dave Fix constantly threaten lawsuits and not just hire a lawyer to correspond with the party they're having conflict with.
Having said that, if Andrew is indeed paying to have that POS pin wrapped and shipped back, I'm not sure why Don is holding out for another $250. Just send it back and be done with it.
Lawyers cost money. Threatening to consult with a lawyer is free
Quoted from Haymaker:I really like the part were he calculated my pinside use (despite having me blocked btw). Yes Andrew, I have some time to kill at work, just like a bunch of us here. Excellent work, Good Will Hunting.
Working at Pinball Adventure Manufacturing, he should know what it’s like to have free time
2 weeks later
Quoted from toddtuckey:I wonder if Punny Factory and Elements will be at the Texas Show this weekend!
Not on the exhibitor list. Though maybe they have a distro bring a Punny Factory
It seems dead at this point
1 week later
Quoted from toddtuckey:topped off with wind via a fan underneath the cabinet simulating that First Class Experience.
must be on one of them Boeing planes if you feel the wind inside
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:#notapun
I'm not excited about this theme. I bet this First Class Airplane game will be very Boeing
4 weeks later
Again, I don't see why this is d0ns problem to send the game back. Tell Andrew it's on the curb in front of his house and it's up to him to go get it before the trash collectors do.
So how do you guys think Elements is coming along? It's only been over a year since it's reveal, several months since asking for deposits, and some unknown number of months from his scrubbing the preorders from the website store
when I got into pinball, I never would have thought I would learn sooo much about the legal system
and now I get a crash course in international law
Quoted from Sandman33:WHY would anyone...anyone "invest" in Punny Factory?
how does one short sell a pinball machine?
Quoted from Mr68:Or at least I tried
I hope you weren't dealing with a case of premature adjudication
Quoted from flynnibus:Lol...
missing from the complaint... several lines that should say "and then magic happened here..."
And it seems Square acts as an intermedite here... since they don't have the vendor work with Visa, etc directly. https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/3882-payment-disputes-walkthrough
"refund" maybe Square's terminology - but the reason they are taking the money from the vendor and giving it back to the customer is because they lost the dispute. Pretty sure the credit card company, not Square's policy is the one to enforce here. So who cares what drone Square employee says... what does the credit card company say to the customer and square.
The belief of losing 10 game sales turning into 250k is rich...
Ditto for saying they “sold over 30”
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