Last June I was fortunate enough to see a cabinet and some of the materials, but he didn't have any PFs in yet.

I will say, that the cabinet build quality, strength and finish was exceptional. I am hopeful that the lockdowns will ease up and I will have a chance to flip it at some point (the business is pretty close to where I live).

I'd suggest anyone interested to PM PinballBuzz. Andrew has a clear passion for pinball and loves to share knowledge. I am not sure if he is connected with the media of this account.. but if you get a hold of him, be respectful and maybe he'll share some of what he's up to.

It is pretty cool to think of someone making pinball machines in the same city as me. I have been privy to some video footage, and as I have said in a previous post, have laid hands on the prototype cabinet and some of the toys etc.

Andrew has invited me to check things out, but unfortunately, I have a high risk child, so we are pretty much locked down in our house.

It is clear the project is progressing, but the release is perhaps a bit different. My impression is that PinballBuzz are creating the game they want to see, they probably want to complete the vision and have some people really get their hands on it, before people critique things based on what they think they see etc. As we all know, pinballs need to be played and understood to be properly appreciated. Personally, I like the approach of having something finished and then showing it as it is meant to be played. We see a lot of prototypes at shows etc.. that's great too.. but completing and being ready to accept the orders on a launch is another deal entirely.

I think the video works, much time has gone by due to covid, and clearly we are getting closer to a real release. This will serve to remind people about the upcoming game. It's entertaining.

I definitely like Dave Sanders work, so looking forward to seeing how this one shoots.

Some gameplay footage has been updated. nice light show.

I'm not sure what to tell you people. My friend and I met Andrew a couple of times over the past couple of years buying / selling pins. He has always been friendly and loves talking pinball. A real family guy from the seems of it, which perhaps is a force behind his theme. He has indicated this theme is the one he wanted to build.. his own personal passion project.

What I did see of the ideas and the build for the machine felt and looked excellent.

At some point people need to get over things. With regard to personal attacks, I just wanted to raise some awareness that through my interactions, this is a decent human being, has a family, works hard and has a passion for pinball. Behind a keyboard, we can sometimes forget humanity it would seem.

Also, as a idea like this takes wings, it's important to remember it has become bigger than one person. A whole team of people, respected industry experts and so forth. I have not had the opportunity to flip Mafia, but I have played Full Throttle and Alien, and have to say they are fun games to shoot and play!

Well I mean, there is a toxic vibe with a factory producing puns.... so rainbow clown puke is probably a win.

Thought I'd report here that I was able to drop by pinball adventures recently. They had a prototype game set up which was playable.

Barring any weird issues, from what I saw, it seems like it will be ready for shows.

Gameplay felt good. The machine set up did not have glass on etc, so it's not like it was set up to really hammer away on. I will say, it shoots like it looks, which (for me anyway) is a good thing. Lots of targets, and it has the retro street level playing vibe that I understand punny was very much modeled after. Obviously anyone expecting a playfield full of ramps and subways should understand that this is not that machine, and on the contrary, anyone looking for a more classic pinball experience on steroids may be pleasantly surprised. The shots really were quite satisfying, sniping those standups on the side, cranking the vari-target etc. I was making the shots, so I felt pretty good about it

The code path is definitely on the modern side with the additional depth of having a number of objectives and completions to make around the PF. It seemed pretty far along all things considered, and Andrew demoed the objectives and a number of puns all which seemed to function, including a 2-ball multiball.

Seeing the rail system in person, I was quite impressed, and the cab build seems to be the same quality as what I had originally observed and was excited by years ago. It appeared that there were a number of machines in the works, and I noticed a line-up of populated PFs ready to go.

Not sure what else to say. In my mind, if the goal was to produce a machine, Pinball Adventures has done it and huge kudos to them. If they bring it to the next show, or the show after, I can't say.. it seems to be the plan.. and it seems like there is a real push now to have it all ready. That benheck quote of "pinball is hard" is my mantra when I hear of people building a machine with grand ideas, and I acknowledge that I have no idea of the challenges they must have encountered leading up to this stage (Obviously, this has been years in the making), to produce not a one-off, but a machine in quantity.

It will be interesting to me to see how it is received. It's kind of a odd mash of just an amazing build, that cabinet, the little details, rail system, it's like no expense was spared. At the same time, it's a more basic layout, with more classic play (I don't mean for this to sound like a bad thing.. I enjoyed it.. but it's not perhaps what people expect for a new machine with ramps here to there and so forth. not a licensed theme, which speaks to perhaps it being more economical, despite being wrapped in a premium shell? Or maybe the $ was spent on a crazy amount of software art yet to see.. apparently there are a lot of puns.. if there is supporting art for it all, that could be crazy.

Anyway. Hopefully I can get myself another invite to play when the glass is on and I can try to get some video.

I did not see them in the vendor list.

Would be cool but the cost and logistics of getting a machine and all that gear down there seems like a lot.. I'd anticipate seeing something at Yegpin more likely.. I'd like to try it again.. If I end up with a chance to try it again, I'll try to give you a heads up to try it out. Still a hope it could make it to one of our vrpa events.

It'll depend how many doll hairs it will cost...

Yeah, I was thinking recently, It's a real shame as punny was ahead of the curve on a classic layout for a modern pin, which feels like a real theme now.

... but pinball is hard. I do recall seeing it ~~2019, so there has been a flipping prototype since then, but the trials and redos of this type of thing could probably fill a book.

Hey Folks, I spoke with Andrew and I will be setting up a live stream for gameplay.

We are shooting for around ~10:30AM PST Sunday morning (April 23rd).

Expecting to have a world champion in attendance to kick the tires, and we'll have Andrew to answer questions about the game etc., rules and so forth.

I'll post the final stream details later.. want to do some dry-runs first to make sure we get it right.

Looking forward to the stream this Sunday 10:30am PST:
https://www.twitch.tv/pinbruh

Code seems pretty decent, quite a lot to do, which I'm looking forward to exploring. Pretty nice gap on the left outlane, which feels extra mean with where the inlane post is... should keep the ball times down, but we'll see how that goes.

After gameplay, I'll also try to see if we can go over some of the extra polish that has gone into the machine, demonstrate the rail system and other interesting features etc.

If you can't make it, please feel free to post any questions regarding the Punny Factory here and I will try to get them answered during stream.

a few points from my perspective.

Yes, timelines were not met for sure. For us on the outside, it doesn't cost anything. It gets silly and the brand suffers for sure. 100% I'm sure they more than anyone would have loved to have this out years ago, and saved tons of dough and headache in the process.

I have had a bit of a pulse on this project since the beginning. They had a flipping prototype a couple of years ago.. there were bugs, and issues with various mechanicals, so I get why Andrew probably thought he was really close.. but then, as I understand, some of these issues basically had them start from scratch several times. I think this is a good sign tho, if they were what you were saying, they could have easily smoke and mirrored it and maybe pre-sold over covid and moved on by now. The game was mostly working.. why not get it out the door make the cash and run?

I have met Mark and Tim who are part of his staff working on this game and they seem to really care about the product, so regardless of what you feel about Andrew, behind the scenes, he has a team of people working on this, who take pride in what they are doing.

Not sure what to say, everyone who came to play this morning had fun and enjoyed the game. I can state that from optics, I've seen a row of shelves with populated punny playfields, and quite a few cabs around, bins of parts and so forth. I've been told the parts are mostly ordered from Pinball Life, and this appears to check out, with the assembled flipper mechs etc.

Oh c'mon.. I thought everyone had come up with something being punny at some point?

Not going to disagree on paper. IRL, perhaps that's what's most impressive is that it comes together.. Little charm vibe maybe.. Idk. My typical genres are horror, sci fi. Not my jam, but it does work.

Never a bad idea to work with a good distributor for new pinball purchases. An extra layer of protection if you have any qualms with buying direct etc.

IDK, the same question applies to most titles of custom license, GTF, Fathom Mermaid would you rather have that then the latest Stern Pro? Do you want a restored classic over the latest Stern Pro?

I don't really see competition going on here, different market as I see it., .. I'll give tho that it is an oddball for sure. From what EalaDubhSidhe has said, this is a proof of technology. It happens to shoot well, and he seems to be making enough sales to increase what I thought was going to be a smaller run initially? I guess we'll need to see where the dust settles and where the machines end up, and who buys them. We all know the money is out there.. and I'm pretty sure if we are being honest, we all know a couple of collectors who might just pick one of these up because they have that different kind of collection going that is not defined by the top 100 list.

On another note, with some comparison to Stern and others the build quality going on with this Pinball Adventures machine is amazing. I'm talking about the cabinet and backbox and metal work here. Tough to imagine this being sustainable and profitable, especially because it is not the type of thing many players are going to see? but damn.. I was impressed that they are shipping all the trim like that.. I've read about people joking about the finish on the bottom of the cab, but I liken it to some of the modern restorations going on, where people are really cleaning up the bottom board etc. Happy to report also, that upon lifting the PF, we do not have layers of coil dust accumulated.. I'm sure it will happen over time, but a sign of the kind of quality you get when you source through Pinball Life.

For sure. I recently picked up a Dirty Harry and have been playing that a lot, and find the flow and supporting code amazing.. and after playing GZ, Rush etc.. one gets flow for sure.

At the same time, I love my classics as well, I was speaking with woz about this specifically. He loves Black Hole.

The people who will enjoy the layout are classics players for sure.

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For the latter.. yeah, IDK.. It was not a problem for me playing it.. but it would not be a selling feature personally. The Knott's esque voice does fit, it is not overused, I think it's a pretty good impersonation personally.

Something I think about for sure.. From a business perspective, the more units sold, the more likely it is that you are going to get refined code to support it.

For most boutique pinballs, it's either going to get refined as a passion project from the company.. or it's going to be what it's going to be mostly at launch with a few critical issues addressed.

For a unreleased game, all the stream players were very impressed with the level that the code was at in our gameplay.. especially as many of us have the opportunity with our club to play early Stern launches and so forth. The code is solid. Whether or not you get more features later? who knows.. I would not count on it tho unless it is a blocking issue.

As players we all can think of titles where code could use refinement.. and I think we can all put our business hats on to know how that works... Glass half-full, this is the charm of having something different and uncommon

Yeah.. will be interesting to see how it pans out for distributors. I get the feeling for many it will be wait and see if they have people request it from them, or wait and see what they think of the machine and if they can move them.

The whole thing gets invalidated when we add the perspective of this being a proof VS the other themes with more general appeal in the pipe.

Who knows. Pinball is crazy. It's a different world entirely than when AMH was launched.

I'd wager two demographics I can think of:

1 - Person who loves playing a challenging classic layout. They don't like ramps (yes they exist). And has the financial budget to acquire new machines. I think there are many who like the layout.. The theme is a challenge for me, but if I compare it to the themes of some of the 80s street levels, I mean, it's a gem... so it become nostalgia VS something pulled off and implemented really well (the puns and sounds and the package does come nicely). This gets a lot more niche when you put down the New machine price point.. this is where I think of the Fathom remakes, perhaps justified cost based on the $ you pay for a fully restored fathom?

2 - The collector's who like to have different games and will buy NIB if it's something interesting enough to them.

These are much smaller niche markets.. but they exist.

Homepin started with all of their replacement parts etc as well.. also at a time when distributors were hungry for more items to sell.. I think the general mechanical and electronic stuff was always solid. Machine under delivered in playability for sure.. but I think the key is the support the distributor actually needs to provide which can affect the bottom line. In this sense, I think Alien was probably the biggest wake-up call for the level of support a machine can push on to a distributor.

Interesting comparable. The electronics are similar for sure. (relatively simple playfield, decent shooter)

Mafia was an amazing theme choice for the time.. perfect theme.

Price point was way off. It would be akin to having an MSRP of ~10k by today's pricing.

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Punny is way better value materials-wise. It's simple, but it does have many additional mechs, multiball play, 3 individual drop targets, the vari-target, kick back, etc. (Even Stern cheaps out on the kick-back lol)
Side armor and all the bling. Better everything really but for most, a preference of theme probably?

The price point is very reasonable by today's costs... but at the same time, I'm not going to argue, as I get the value of having themes that call to you. For me, license / theme is huge as for what comes in to stay in the small amount of space and budget that I have... and for operators, I know how valuable these licenses can be despite other titles shooting much better and so forth.

Yeah. I kind of have the feeling that it was very close originally.. but I know that they have their own branded boards now underneath. Just guessing that this might be part of the delays etc that they needed to work around? maybe other things they wanted to do? someone from Pinball Adventures will need to chime in officially.. I am just hypothesising.

Not for me.. I actually do like the way it shoots tho.. and the build quality as I have mentioned ad nauseum. Quality parts!

If it was the Evil Dead license, shooting the same, same parts and build etc.. I'd sell whatever I needed to buy it tho.

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Translation, I really like playing it. Single or multiplayer.. I could play it for hours, and could see really going for the challenge of collecting 50 puns etc.. which seems impossible from the stream play... but then, as you know, I love playing all eras.. The classics are easy to play a lot of due to the short ball times, that leave you with that easy choice to try another game and do just a bit better. .. just theme-wise, it doesn't fit for my collection.. it's close tho..

Care to elaborate?

Thanks for itemizing.

I'm just happy to play more pinball, and the team that came out to play had a great time. There is certainly a lot of baggage in this thread.

Time will tell I guess I believe it will be at some shows now starting with NW, so more people will get to play. Hopefully some distributors will pick up some for something different. Quite a charming player.

The QA, consultation and legal from this thread seems to be pro bono at least.

I noticed an assembly guide link is now available on the page:
https://www.pinballadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Pinball-Adventures-Game-Assembly-Single-Page-WEB.pdf

Maybe this can be reviewed. I suppose my only observation is with securing the backbox, typically I don't trust only the rear allen key lock, and prefer at least one or two bolts directly securing the head. Hopefully this is available as well.

I don't think that one is off the ground yet..

Might be fun, just follow a physical build of a ChatGPT concept. Perhaps the rules could be regenerated at a certain interval with additional data points collected from collected metrics.

oof. It's like one of those find the difference kids puzzles. Wonder if there is a old JJP document where they are even more similar. It's a bit odd to make the changes that are in place. Guessing a poor choice of contractor for the manual, but who knows. No doubt lifted tho. I'm sure JJP already has been contacted.

Maybe the "Wish" version of "Airplane", which would have potential...

Like the Gold Wings to Top Gun.

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Andrew has been nothing but kind and generous to myself and pinball friends in our region (We have a great community here in BC, Canada).
Inviting anyone to drop by and check out what he's working on.

I really can't agree with anything horrible, scammy, and embarrassing about that.

That's the pickle for me.. I really enjoy CrazyLevi posts. I know the story and see where people come from on both sides.

It's just sad for me to see things become so personal online either way.

I'm just speaking from my personal interactions and experience.

Tough to quantify everything, I don't disagree with a lot of what has been said. At the same time, any discussion of Pinball Adventures in the same breath as Deep Root, jPop and the lot is an insult to those who were truly victims of scam IMHO-

Mad Amusements is an interesting analogy for debate. Right along with many other vendors it seems unfortunately.

For me, scam is a pretty big accusation, one that has been used way to lightly to refer to a product of poor quality / value etc.

Yeah, but cringe is how I would generally feel about anyone in sales.. I learned this early on, adapted my brain to understand where they come from.

Build that understanding, and see the results of them being the type of people you need to be successful as well.

Capitalism is hard...

Yes, I am saddened to see some material on the website that was lifted from various sources, and particularly disheartened to see flippers.be impacted.

As I say, I'm not disagreeing with many of the posts and comments made.

At the same time, I don't know the whole story. At this point, it doesn't look good.. the best thing to do is cooperate with the owners and remove the content.
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I have only heard Todd's side from what I have read in the posts.

I think Todd is pretty savvy, I don't think he'd let himself be scammed. At the same time, there was clearly a big misunderstanding/miscommunication with regard to their venture.

It's always interesting to me, as I had met Andrew after that whole thing had blown up, and at that time, in person Andrew had nothing but praise and good things to say about his time with Todd.. some sort of online ego stuff goes on.. IDK. It's unfortunate.

Definitely explains why Gottlieb went with:
"The Games" and "Torch"

In this aspect, Punny Factory should be pretty safe.. lol, as the word itself appears to be under debate. Looking at the game itself, it seems pretty clear.. but it's an interesting consideration, as another hurdle as a game goes from a one off art project, to a commercial product. After the fact infringement would be brutal.

Hopefully the website gets cleaned up from any infringing material.

Problems all seem to start when the vari-target did not reset. Never really saw how that mech was designed, but prob a good idea to have it trigger the release latch coil with each new ball like vari-target classics anyway... unless something else was going on with it.

Reviewing some of my own footage, I can't find anyone getting past the first pun. Perhaps some rule adjustments to spot or alter the targets to advance through more puns could help progression... or perhaps the difficulty is part of the charm? I kept coming back thinking I could do a little better.

Fun watching Don's stream. Despite the issues (that flipper would drive me crazy), he seems somewhat happy playing.

I recall it tying in with the clover drop targets that come up in that mode. It was explained to me, but I can't find any more info on it. :/

"Open the head, and use the touchscreen to quickly read out a human-language error condition, or to test or configure the game"

That reminds me of the 6803 ABC pad for some reason. Hopefully can still use typical door panel buttons to navigate menus etc. but sounds interesting.

IKR, Personally, I would try to pass any draft copy and images through this thread for review and free legal advice.

That's quite interesting.. curious what the story is for sure... One would think by the time you have the blank cut and inserts in etc. that the expense is already there... also presume they are still putting a full clear coat on?

Thanks for sharing. Didn't know about this one, but fun to listen to. Cool he brought up the cabinet stuff. I'm kind of surprised they were able to make production with those cabinets, really nice and sturdy, probably the best IMHO.

hmm.. I've heard of toys being ball catches, but this is next level.

Not that interesting, nothing new. Summary:
Same thing, from the unhappy Don.

Although the dispute is apparently still going on and the CC sided with the merchant, so his $ cleared.

*Allegedly*, Pinball Adventures is now refusing to send even a blank playfield which was promised.. and a bunch of "I'm getting my lawyer talk".

---

My takeaway:

It's always good to deal with a reputable pinball distributor. I feel the good ones provide a service to buyers in this industry. Let me be clear, this is nothing against PinballAdventures directly... Just like all the issues from JJP and Stern.. your odds of getting things sorted out are better when you have a distributor brokering the support.

Pinball Adventures said they would ship a blank PF. Not sure if that was truly rescinded or not...?

N1.. Well done-

I say let the market decide. Forget the 6k threshold, and rather set a date, I propose Christmas eve to coincide with the Nakatomi incident.

and although the waste of this makes me sick (I hope someone tries to salvage the pinballlife parts), I understand this can be part of the healing process, so hopefully helpful for D0n and Todd to move on and perhaps have something they are happy about to look back on from their experience.

And here I was thinking this was a book burning...

Some of the material quality is debatable. All common mechanics are WPC style from PinballLife. The cab is exceptional. The playfield layout was from Dave Sanders. Most who play it are pretty happy with the build feel and shots etc. In addition, I am aware of a punny factory that is or at least was on location near me for some time, and it seems to have been reliable from what I've heard.

It's a shame it was not released 4 years ago, as I think the reception for a single level older school feeling shooter may have been better.. but I think the part shortages over covid definitely caused some delays.. and of course, pinball is hard and so forth.

The majority of toxicity toward the machine is really about the theme and a larger community issue personally directed toward Andrew Macbain due to a falling out related to a book deal with Todd Tuckey, which saw many pinball books sent to dissatisfied buyers, many of whom were unhappy with the quality both material and in copy/editing of the book. If you look back in this thread, and search other posts, you can find all the details about the book issues.

TBH, When I first met Andrew, he game me a copy of the book, I think it was the original print, and I understand that there was a second print on some better paper stock. To be given a copy, I of course was quite happy with it... but with a MSRP of $39.95 I believe, I could see buyers being upset as the paper quality is quite thin and would be what people would expect in the $14.95 type range likely. Also, I understand there was a mixup in the editing, as it was printed directly from Todd's notes, and not corrected for spelling / grammar as some would expect.. personally, I enjoy it more knowing those are Todd's notes verbatim. I do hope Todd moves on to try the idea again with the coffee table quality book he wanted to deliver along with QR codes etc.. It is great to have his operator insight.

Yeah, I guess that's fair.. I agree he has been his own worst enemy at times on pinside forums.

It's too bad, as he is a nice guy to speak with in real life, and has been quite generous and nice to have around locally.

IDK, I'd argue a con man would keep away from written dialog that can so easily be used against them.

It's tough for me also, as I've met the person, the family man etc. He's a friend and I enjoy speaking with him. At the same time, I tend to just call things as I see them, so I'm sure I have vexed him at times with my candor. I did speak with him, hoping he would work out the arrangement with D0n. if_ he in fact said he would send a populated PF, then he should have. At the same time, he did keep a deal to send a unpopulated new PF, and I understand already sent parts for all the other issues. It may not be optimal, but it implies some sense of trying to make things right.

Watching this thread certainly at times hits a level of online bullying which is difficult to be party to. Whether it is deserved or not, is beside the point to trying to keep things constructive.

I was pretty happy he was able to deliver punny's without taking deposits etc. that's a plus for sure... and regardless of what is thought about the machine.. he succeeded in producing a commercial machine.. that would be a dream for me for sure.

I was kind of wondering if someone on either side tried to spray it with an ammonia cleaner or something which particularly reacted with the clear coat. I still don't know what Andrew was talking about re the clear, the original PFs I saw were all perfect.

re: txts/ emails, My understand, yes the populated PF was agreed to be shipped with the 2nd machine on order.. but when the 2nd machine order was cancelled, so too was the populated PF. I understand total cost of the crated PF and mechs was part of this business decision. I am not sure of the nuances of the discussion of how attached the deal here was with regard to the populated PF. Still, the offer of a unpoplulated PF (which still stands BTW), seems reasonable.

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uhm... goes to show how different experiences can be. My experience with Haggis Fathom thus far has been a negative, not because of ownership, but machine just never seems to be up for me. With regard to the haggis CC, I've not heard about any issues.. at the same time I'd really like to see more examples of punnyfactory CC issues.. just not enough third party data in the community.

I'm not a fan of the team pinball framework, but I'm not sure if I would call someone leveraging it to be sub-par. I agree with you about the wiring etc. But the finish and build quality of the cab, armor, PF, mechs really is first rate.. I don't really see how anyone who has experienced this machine can debate these aspects. That cab is so damn solid, I'm actually kind of curious how well it will hold up after falling off a roof... worst thing going for it is weight due to the extra thick plywood.

Works well at the border crossing..

"Are you bringing anything back with you?"

"Well, that depends...."

Thank you. I mention the cabinet as going down a path like Thunderbirds for example, where we have a cheap cab and cheap buttons and flimsy lockdown bar etc. If one were trying to produce a machine trying to cash out on profits, I would certainly expect to cut corners on this aspect. Instead we have a remarkable cabinet, and a powder coating and armour quality which rivals the best custom jobs out there.

Speaking of the inner cab art, I agree so far as WTF why not skip this and reduce MSRP, this area is prone to dirt and coil dust over time anyway... my thoughts precisely when I heard about it.. but I can't deny it is a nice touch, and something again we see from some of the classic restorations.. going that extra mile these days entails having a really clean cab bottom.

Same with the playfield bar supports. I imagine this is extra bom over industry standard as well.. but can't deny, it's pretty slick when you actually use it in action. I feel like I'd need to go back to 60s Bally to find that kind of added BOM that has been added just for the operator / repair person.

--

I also wanted to say, over the past week I've spent a fair amount of time conversing with both d0n and Andrew.

It's too bad they could not come to an arrangement. I can certainly see where both are coming from, as a consumer who dropped a lot of $, and a small business owner who can only bleed so much $.

If anyone cares, my attempt to be unbiased, and to paraphrase the stories from each:

* The original deal to receive a populated PF was an agreement that D0n would take receipt of a second punny factory, which he would then swap his bad PF into, and then take the second punny to the expo, and sell it there.

My opinion, this is kind of a half-baked idea. It rings true because I don't think anyone could make this up. D0n said this option was a deal and then taken away. Too many missing subjects and details (what-ifs) to determine any sort of contract IMO. Still, I think from here, we can extrapolate that a PF issue was confirmed.

* I personally have been stating that there is an offer to send D0n an unpopulated PF.

In actuality, there are strings attached to this, which would be for D0n to remove all negative comments and actions with regard to the situation.

I understand that both parties believe the damage was caused at the other end. Particularly as at this stage, we have no other evidence of PF / clear issues with punny. To think that a damaged one was sent on purpose, is just as unlikely as to think the customer intentionally or accidentally damaged it. There is no winner here, but the seller needs to decide if they are going to replace it or not.

My opinion, as a business owner, Once you mention or agree to sending a replacement part, you can't put strings on it, or change the agreement if it is rejected as not being good enough. All you can do is provide the optics to the community that you sent the part and this is what you did to support the product. TBH, most pinball people I know would probably agree this is a pretty reasonable support action. At the same time, a customer is allowed to complain and write their feelings about the situation under free speech, and removal of this cannot be part of a agreement.

*** My understanding is at this point, PinballAdventures is pending the credit card dispute, at which point they will follow the proposed resolution. I do kind of wish the PF could just be sent, as the optics are better than the CC company forcing your hand.. but I can respect that they see the process underway, and are just hanging tight.

Anyway.. TLDR; I just wanted a chance to clarify my own incorrect assertions with regard to the unpopulated playfield, I get why D0n rejected it, and is upset. I do hope that he can get help adjusting the game so it can at least play properly. I think we can all empathise with how frustrating it can be when you are pending support or parts or time to get a machine playing properly.. and it just sits taking up room :/

whitewood makes me think how cool it would be if the code could be open, or at minimal be able to replace all media assets with like custom ones (similar to pinball browser). Then allow a buyer to get the game as a clean slate graphically, or submit their own art to have for decals etc.

Raspberry pi def supports 4 channels.. would be pretty slick if it were integrated specifically in the code to actually work with the game... let alone how the speakers might be configured to make use of it.

Mostly agree.. I suppose I'm looking at it from a code perspective... thinking it would be neat to have sounds configured to be coming from behind.. even if for most, this is just simmered into 2.1.. it keeps some potential for a more extravagant set up if a home user wanted.

To be fair, that's around a $1400 USD discount.

Take the Factory down to 4k range, it could generate some orders for the novelty at some locations..

Although pinball is weird. Sometimes I see desirable titles sit for a while at fair prices, and sometimes you see people paying whatever they need to obtain them because a few in the pool of buyers have decided they need to own it now.

It would not have surprised me if sales increased after that event...

Couple reasons off the top:
1.) b/c events like that cater precisely to the type of collector that might want one for the novelty / story / exclusivity

2.) b/c unlike many of the titles from point 1 above, this one actually has a PF which is pretty decent to shoot.

Well, I guess 'nobody' is up to interpretation. I'm sure there are a number of people in NA that would like to get a Mafia, but I think the value proposition for these limited boutique titles just is not there so much. Seems to have a MSRP of 6k now.. but IDK if that is to the door. I'd suspect that if you could list a bunch NIB ready to ship at 5k you'd move some.

The game certainly had some hype for a new machine back in 2018/19, yet only 3 sales recorded on pinside. Back then, the 7500MSRP was prob quite a turn-off. I kind of suspect production issues as well in actually getting them to people. I'm sure over the supply issues covid years, people would have easily paid whatever just to have a new machine.

I should not even need to qualify this, but I never meant to imply that any of these titles would be big sellers.. I don't think any of the creators would expect it either. At the same time, unless you have tunnel vision on pinball, I feel like most of us would agree that there is a small part of the community which is buying machines for different reasons than many comprehend... and thus, that statement 'nobody' wants to buy it, is not true.

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https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/pinball-adventures-punny-factory-standard-edition

Looks like the Punny Factory has a $4800 private sale.

I think the French probably have a word for that.

Curious about precedent for ownership in this case...

Say, high value (>5k) item, with special shipping requirements, payment refunded...

For me, if I shipped a game to someone, and they were not happy with it, and were refunded due to issues which were not disclosed (obviously hypothetical, but just trying to fit the narrative), then as a human, regardless of all the other talk, I would expect the buyer to recognize it was still my properly, and make some times available that I could arrange to have someone drop by to take the machine back.

I gather this is where d0n was after the dispute.

With an assumption that the credit card company refunded d0n because they deemed the product was faulty, kind of puts all of the onus on the seller to arrange for and take the product back imo. Pretty ugly situation, but I see it with people talking about rejecting shipment on their new Stern machine because they observed box damage etc. Due to these logistics, the notion of mfgs shipping machines is pretty crazy for me, and the distributors just add so much value here in being in the correct region to properly take care of any scenario like this.