"Bernie Madhoff's Magic Adventure?"

This is why it's ridiculous to compare JJP to JPop. JJP announced who his design team was before he took any orders from people, and the design team is a "who's who" of experienced industry people who have a track record of delivering games. JJP has been very open about his resources and progress of his game. Nobody really has any significant doubts that WOZ will be delivered; we've all seen pictures of the production facility, the games have showed up at festivals, we've seen videos of gameplay, etc.

JPop's operation, on the other hand, still remains a huge secret. I have no doubt that JPop is a great designer but it takes more than one person to produce a pinball machine. It takes a solid team of dedicated people.

Don't be hating on me because I'm merely being "the voice of reason" here. I hope MG and BHZA come out and everybody loves them, but from the vantage point of being on the outside, there doesn't appear to be much evidence that a lot is happening. Don't blame us if the topic comes up and we express our opinion. Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

Note that I'm not being a JPop hater or JJP fanboy. I'm just stating what's obvious. One group is very open about what they're doing and clearly demonstrating they have the resources to bring their product to market. Another group is requiring anyone who apparently knows anything to sign a non-disclosure agreement. It would be great if JPop would make some more public announcements about what's going on with the games. And if it's nobody's business but those who've pre-ordered, that's kind of a slight to the pinball enthusiast community don't you think? People want to know whats up? What's wrong with that?

Has Jack ever really "set a date"? He has on a few occasions suggested he might be ready around a certain time, but I don't think he's ever, definitively said, "We will ship on X", which is why he's never had to apologize. I don't think he's ever promised anything yet.

So MG and BHZA have been put in the database? Nobody even has a picture of these games. When there isn't even an image of the game, should it be put in the database??

Can one of you guys get John to at least submit an image for the database?