(Topic ID: 146417)

Another Gottlieb Baseball question...score motor "delayed".

By DPhillips1965

8 years ago


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#5 8 years ago
Quoted from DPhillips1965:

If I read this correctly, activation of any of these should activate the score motor (1C) immediately.

That's not a correct way to read it. In this section of the schematic, the logic "flows" right to left, so in this case, the normally closed switch at motor 1C needs to be closed in order to complete any of those paths to the various runs relays.

On the left are all the coil symbols, and the path to any one of them has to go through the series of switches as indicated, reading it right to left (although it's often easier to start at the coil, and trace the path back, left to right).

So as noted above, to see what causes the score motor to run (or not, in this case), find the score motor symbol (an 'M' in a circle), and then there will be a group of normally open switches drawn in parallel. Any one of them closing will cause the score motor to run, and the score motor will continue to run as long as any one of them is closed.

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

On the Baseball schematic, Motor 1C is drawn as normally open.

There are several switches at position motor 1C; the section of the schematic highlighted by the OP is showing a normally closed motor 1C switch used to feed the runs relays, not the motor 1C switch that feeds the score motor to keep it running.

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#11 8 years ago

So on your schematic you'll see the various switches that cause the score motor to run: W, E, I, O, S, SB, and one at motor position 1C (these are just the ones in parallel, ignoring the reset path that also causes it to run via a DB2 switch).

The only two that are related to scoring/game play are E and I. W, O, S, and SB are usually all on the score motor board, so are near the score motor. But where are E and I located? The path from I apparently is working, since manually activating I does cause the score motor to run. But the path from E to the score motor might be suspect.

Otherwise, the E and I relays don't have very much in common, so it might be better to debug one at time for now.

E should energize whenever either "Single" rollover switch closes. E should stay energized ("locked on") via its own switch, and a normally closed switch at motor position 2B. But a switch closing on E when it energizes should also cause the score motor to run (which in turn will de-activate E when the switch at position motor 2B does open).

It won't score the 100 points either without the score motor running, since it needs the first pulse of the score motor to do so.

I think the simplest thing to do would be to focus on the switch on E that is supposed to cause the score motor to run, and the path from there to the score motor. Looks like one side of that switch is going to be with a GR+RED wire.

Now, the I relay is a different path. The I relay is directly energized via the three top rollovers switches, or the two "2" standup targets switches. Once energized, the I relay should stay locked on via its own switch and until a switch at score motor 2B opens. If none of those five playfield switches energizes the I relay, then it's either the I relay coil, or there's a common open in the path.

Since the I relay has a lock-on path, if you manually activate I and it locks on and holds while the score motor runs, then the coil is fine. That then means there's a common open in the path. If that's the case, then the thing to consider is where is the I relay located relative to the playfield switches? If the I relay is on the score motor board, or is in the backbox, then there's at least a Jones plug involved.

So in both cases, it could be as simple as a Jones plug possibly, depending on where E and I are located.

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

So from this we know that the playfield switch, the plug and wiring from play field to bottom board where the score motor and relays are is good.

So is the 'E' relay on the score motor board? If so, then it has a wire that joins in on the path to run the score motor. That's the path to focus on. D, T, and H can all be ignored for now, and E does not feed a signal to I.

#17 8 years ago

And where is the "I" relay located?

#19 8 years ago

Ok, good. So look for the GR+RED wire on the "I" relay on the switch there that causes the score motor to run. Then follow it over to the E relay and look for an open. The switch on E that closes and should run the score motor is losing the signal, but apparently it's reaching at least from the "I" relay to the motor. That's for the issue of E energizing, but not running the score motor.

Then the issue of "I" not energizing from the playfield switches is going to be about checking the wire on the "I" coil there back to the Jones plug where the playfield plugs in, and then up to the playfield. There's an open along that path to also find.

This is where using jumper wires to help isolate come in handy.

1 week later
#35 8 years ago
Quoted from DPhillips1965:

I can manually activate the switches with the PF up

Check all the rollover switches for one that is 'sagging' when the playfield is down. Especially the 'Single' rollovers, since they can activate the 'E' relay, and 'E' can cause the score motor to run.

Otherwise, go back through the list of relays that have switches that cause the score motor to run: W, E, I, O, S, SB. One has a switch closed, so need to first determine which one it is.

#37 8 years ago

Well, if the difference is that consistent with the ball being in the outhole or absent, then that might suggest focusing on the outhole switch, or the 'O' relay (Ball Return relay). If the outhole switch isn't opening fully after the ball kicks out, then the 'O' relay will keep energizing, and that will keep the score motor running. But the outhole kicker should keep firing too. Does it?

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