(Topic ID: 103321)

Another BSD Opto Problem – FIXED


By mnpin

5 years ago



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  • 38 posts
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#1 5 years ago

Alright, I’ve read every thread I could find on BSD opto issues. I’ve also tried everything I can think of. I’m totally STUMPED.

Issue:
Everything on my BSD works great, but the LONG opto switch doesn’t work at distances further than 6 inches apart. The long opto is used to see if there’s a ball on the magnet as it moves across the playfield. I CAN get the long opto to work, but only if I physically place them close together to test them. They just won’t work at the long distance required (across the playfield).

Fixes I’ve tried:
-Swapped in different opto boards (both of them). No change.
-Swapped in a good half dozen opto senders AND receivers. No change. The receiver can’t pick up anything beyond about 6 inches of distance. I used NOS Williams/Bally’s senders/receivers.
-Swapped in a new shield cable for the opto. No change.
-I even picked up this:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-6771?green=779DAC1E-97AC-51DD-B070-DAAAF2FF2F95
The infrared detector card showed me exactly what I thought was happening. It showed the infrared beam more focused up close. At distance, the infrared (as shown on the detector card) washed out/spread out… until at distances beyond about 6 inches, the receiver can’t pick it up more.
Thoughts? I’m REALLY stumped on this one. Is there a long distance (focused) opto I’m supposed to be using? If so, where the heck would I find them? I can find plenty of optos, but nothing that doesn't wash out past 6 inches or so.

Thanks in advance!

#2 5 years ago

can you take a couple of pics?
Do you any LEDs that could be causing an issue?

#3 5 years ago

Is there possibly a long range opto that goes in that spot, which might be higher powered or more focused? Just a though...

#4 5 years ago

You said you changed opto boards , but what if both have the same issue .
The problem you describe did i have ones or twice .
It was on the 24-opto board L1 . It has two legs and one had been broken off trough vibration .

#5 5 years ago

If this turns out to be a "parts no longer available" issue, there is an alternative that should be able to be made to work.

http://www.bannerengineering.com/en-US/products/8/Sensors/23/Compact-Photoelectric-Sensors/57/MINI-BEAM-Series/

I've used these sensors for timing applications, and they are typically 15 feet apart. The ones we use also happen to run on 12VDC.

Does the BSD opto use a lens?

#6 5 years ago

The mist opto is definitely a long-range pair, different from the other optos. I couldn't find a number in the manual though. Should be in there summerce.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

If this turns out to be a "parts no longer available" issue, there is an alternative that should be able to be made to work.
http://www.bannerengineering.com/en-US/products/8/Sensors/23/Compact-Photoelectric-Sensors/57/MINI-BEAM-Series/
I've used these sensors for timing applications, and they are typically 15 feet apart. The ones we use also happen to run on 12VDC.
Does the BSD opto use a lens?

Excellent photo eye....

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

The mist opto is definitely a long-range pair, different from the other optos.

This sounds like your issue.

#9 5 years ago

Sw. 82, ball on magnet. A-14315(LED), A-14316(Trans). From manual page 2-46.

I found this old thread on RGP that might help.

http://rec.games.pinball.narkive.com/Yhc9ytXy/where-to-buy-replacement-bsd-opto-switches

#11 5 years ago

Yep, they're definitely A-14315(LED), A-14316(Trans)... which are unobtainium. From what I can tell, they were replaced by A-16908 and A-16909. I don't know about the originals, but the replacements (A-16908 & 9) wash out after a few inches.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

can you take a couple of pics?
Do you any LEDs that could be causing an issue?

Curious about this statement... I've got Cointaker LEDs in my BSD. How could LEDs be potentially causing an issue with the optos? Thanks!

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from wellarmed:

You said you changed opto boards , but what if both have the same issue .
The problem you describe did i have ones or twice .
It was on the 24-opto board L1 . It has two legs and one had been broken off trough vibration .

Thanks for the idea. I originally thought this might be it, but I now know the optos are working... but washing out over the long distance. If I physically bring the long optos together... to a range of the rest of the optos on the playfield, they work just fine. They just can't handle the distance.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

If this turns out to be a "parts no longer available" issue, there is an alternative that should be able to be made to work.
http://www.bannerengineering.com/en-US/products/8/Sensors/23/Compact-Photoelectric-Sensors/57/MINI-BEAM-Series/
I've used these sensors for timing applications, and they are typically 15 feet apart. The ones we use also happen to run on 12VDC.
Does the BSD opto use a lens?

No lens on the BSD optos... Well, it's simply a domed LED.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpin:

Yep, they're definitely A-14315(LED), A-14316(Trans)... which are unobtainium.

Rob Anthony sells just the original optos. (no boards)

http://lockwhenlit.com/products.htm

Seems like they should all be those. Not a special long range pair just for Mist.

#16 5 years ago

EDIT: WRONG INFO POSTED

SW82 "ball on magnet" is a normal pair. The "pocket" opto is half of the long range pair tuned to a certain wavelength. I looked but couldn't find a number....

I went back and reread the manual again and you are absolutely right, SW82 is the long range opto. I apologize for my misinformation.

The manual calls out 82 as the same part number as the rest of the optos, so I guess ignore me altogether! I shoulda just kept my trap shut!

#17 5 years ago

I was having long opto issues for awhile, it turned out the gate on the left was actually blocking the beam, I put some washers on the gate to hold it in a slightly different position that doesnt block the beam. It took me forever to figure this out.

#18 5 years ago

LEDs could be too bright causing optos to act up. Is what he meant.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from MagicMako:

I was having long opto issues for awhile, it turned out the gate on the left was actually blocking the beam, I put some washers on the gate to hold it in a slightly different position that doesnt block the beam. It took me forever to figure this out.

I wondered if this might be the issue... but I pulled the optos out of the machine, and I can't get them to "see" each other beyond about 6 inches. I tried a handful of the A-16908 and A-16909's, but they all wash out after a few inches. By 6 inches distance, they can't "see" each other.

I was guessing the opto was washing out at distance... then I got this and proved it:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-6771?green=779DAC1E-97AC-51DD-B070-DAAAF2FF2F95

At around 1-3 inches, it's the opto makes a pencil diameter sized mark on the IR detector card. Move it further back, and it totally washes out. No chance of it actually shining across the playfield IMO.

#20 5 years ago

Did u measure ur voltage at the optos? Could be not getting full +12 ??

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Rob Anthony sells just the original optos. (no boards)
http://lockwhenlit.com/products.htm
Seems like they should all be those. Not a special long range pair just for Mist.

Thanks! I ordered some to give them a try. I can easily solder them into the board. Hopefully, that'll do the trick. I'll post results after they arrive.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from kporter946286:

Did u measure ur voltage at the optos? Could be not getting full +12 ??

I haven't done that... but that's a good idea! I'll have to check.

I was also considering fabricating my own lens or tube to focus the IR across the playfield. You know how it goes... potential pin solutions pop in your head at 2 AM... and then you have to go and try and see if it resolves the issue.

#23 5 years ago

I think ur thinking too hard...I've been there too. Usually its a solution that's been right in front of you the whole time. My motto ASAP always start at power and go from there.

#24 5 years ago

For what it's worth my game had no optos in it when I got it and I installed the a-16908 & a-16909's and my game works fine, so you should be ok with them. I also have a homepin long range opto board in my game the previous owner installed as the original was missing and from what I've read are problematic also.

http://www.homepin.com/bsd.html

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Should be in there summerce.

Cody, you do know that only people 'down South' know what you were saying?

We sort of say it 'sommers', here.

Mike in Kentucky

#26 5 years ago

The optos are the same as used all over the machine .
The difference is how they are used .
That is why the 24-opto board looks so different to normal opto boards .
Normal optos work with light but in this case radio waves are used to bridge
the distance .
This technique is provided by the 24-opto board and L1 on it fails very often .
It is only a little coil but trough vibration one leg breaks off sometimes .
Just check this part or put in a board from a working machine .

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

Cody, you do know that only people 'down South' know what you were saying?
We sort of say it 'sommers', here.
Mike in Kentucky

Mike, I do declare I have no idea what you mean.... :0)

#28 5 years ago

I had similar problems with my old BSD. I replaced the opto board with this
http://www.homepin.com/bsd.html and it totally fixed my problems. I replaced the sender and receiver several times before trying this fix.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Jodester:

I had similar problems with my old BSD. I replaced the opto board with thishttp://www.homepin.com/bsd.html and it totally fixed my problems. I replaced the sender and receiver several times before trying this fix.

I decided to do exactly that... order placed.

So, I've got some new (old) optos on the way... and the homepin board. Hopefully, one or both things will fix this prob once and for all. I'll post updates once I get it all installed. Thanks everyone!

#30 5 years ago

Do you have the empty opto body in front of the opto I think it was left side where they are double stacked? Mine was also missing these optos when I bought the game and I just threw some in I had laying around worked fine no problem.

#31 5 years ago

Didn't you mean "dee-clay-uh"?

I've been to Mobile so many times in life, I can't count 'em.

I can't understand why you didn't invite me to drop by.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from Venom_249:

Do you have the empty opto body in front of the opto I think it was left side where they are double stacked? Mine was also missing these optos when I bought the game and I just threw some in I had laying around worked fine no problem.

Yep... Have the empty opto body in front of the receiver on the left side. Thanks for the idea though.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Pintucky:

Didn't you mean "dee-clay-uh"?
I've been to Mobile so many times in life, I can't count 'em.
I can't understand why you didn't invite me to drop by.

Next time you're down, hit me up. A couple of my games still work...sorta.

#34 5 years ago

What were your voltage readings on the opto's. I still think before you jump the gun you should take 2 seconds and test voltage.

1 week later
#35 5 years ago

Voltage was/is fine. Posting fix in msg. below.

#36 5 years ago

Update:

So, I finally got my back BSD up and running perfectly. The solution? It was two-fold and complex:

First step: I installed the Homepin card (works/fits great). When I installed that card, suddenly the receiving Mist eye “woke up”. In the Mist/magnet test mode, it was now noting that the beam was projecting across the playfield. Initially, I thought my problem was fixed. Not yet… While the receiving opto was indeed now detecting something, it wasn’t detecting the transmitting opto from the other side. Why would it be noting it was receiving a signal even when I blocked the transmitting eye on the other side of the playfield? I suspected the nearby GI lighting might be causing the problem. So, I pulled the GI LED near the receiving eye. That fixed the false opto signal. However, the standard transmitting opto on one side of the playfield STILL wasn’t reaching the opto receiver on the other side of the playfield. Below is a link to the transmitting opto I was using (I tried 3 or 4 of these in case I had a bad one – it didn’t fix the issue):
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-16908

Second step: I installed a different transmitting eye:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-14231

I used that eye, and swapped the plastic housing from the other eye. BINGO. It now works PERFECTLY.

Note: the opto from the bottom link that finally worked IS definitely a different color than the opto in the top link. Maybe it's the fabled "long range opto"? The opto in the top link was far darker than the near clear looking opto in the second link. For whatever reason, the 2nd opto seems to be able to hold it’s beam (focus) all the way across the playfield.

So, if you’re having problems with your Mist function on BSD and it involves switch number 82 – the fix I’d recommend is: Install the Homepin card. If that doesn’t fix your problem, I’d also install this opto, and just swap the plastic housing from your existing opto. http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-14231

This problem stumped me for MANY hours. I hope this write-up helps someone.

#37 5 years ago

Glad you got it but, I've got an even weirder problem with mine. I've had a weird random mystery VUK problem for years. The VUK just activated whenever it felt like it. Sometimes not for weeks or months. I replaced optos, checked wires etc and eventually gave up so I bought a new 10sw opto board from Great Lakes Modular http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/. Now with the new replacement board I've never had a problem with the VUK.

The unfortunate side effect of fixing the VUK with the new 10sw opto board is sw82 is suddenly jacked. If you go into test sw 82 is flickering on and off constantly. If I put the original b/w 10sw board back in there is no problem with sw 82. I should also mention that the 24 opto board is a homepin that was installed by the previous owner.

This one has me so confused I don't even know where to start. The 10sw and 24in optos do not appear to share any part of the switch matrix. They do share power and ground but, I have no idea why the b/w 10sw and homepin 24in work fine but, the GLM and Homepin do not. I tried contacting GLM for support but, no reply. I wouldn't reply either except maybe with WTF?!

#38 5 years ago

Just a thought here... maybe the different opto board is doing something (good or bad) to the volts on one of your GI lights near the switch 82 optos? Maybe that slight fluctuation is causing your switch 82 to falsely see/not see what it thinks is the switch opening/closing? That long range opto has a long ways to shoot compared to the rest of the game's optos.

Try removing the GI bulb near the receiving opto and see if you notice a change. If that doesn't work, you might want to also try the transmitting opto that helped fix mine (just swap over the plastic shroud - 1 screw):
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-14231

Best of luck!

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