(Topic ID: 83912)

Announcing new product to help resolve resets in WPC era games


By rkahr

5 years ago



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#201 5 years ago

I hope one of those are Mine.. Just Placed A Order. Can't Wait to get it..

#202 5 years ago

Are people who have no issues going ahead and using this product. I was just curious. I bought an extra one for my STTNG and was curious if I should just pop that bad boy in there..haha

#203 5 years ago
Quoted from FishPharm:

Are people who have no issues going ahead and using this product. I was just curious. I bought an extra one for my STTNG and was curious if I should just pop that bad boy in there..haha

I bought one for a game I was taking to a show "just in case." Now that my game is home, I still have it in there. If problems pop up in one of my other games, I'll switch or buy another one.

Remember how great sliced bread was when it first came out? Nothing compared to this!

#204 5 years ago

I purchased one of these yesterday for my TZ. Looking forward to installing it.

#205 5 years ago

Anyone have an issue when turning the machine off where the knocker partially fires? I have tried a similar fix (supplying the watchdog IC with a clean 5v) and have my knocker partially fire on a Doctor Who pinball when turning the machine off. Happens maybe half the time.. haven't tested with and without the voltage regulator in there to attribute entirely to the alternate voltage regulator supplying the watchdog, but so far in limited tests I haven't had the knocker fire when the alternate regulator is not in there.

Just for anyone's curiousity, Leon actually had a similar solution about 5 years ago (labeled his 2nd solution to WPC reset fixes). His first was putting a very large capacitor between 5v and GND going to the WPC MPU. The 2nd solution involving a voltage regulator supplying the watchdog monitored voltage with a clean 5v was discussed back in 2009. At the time some of the German pinball members were going to produce a more plug-and-play solution. Someone toward the end of the forum thread linked below had even suggested an in-line plugin solution that sounded like it would connect at the power inputs to the MPU. Ingo had created a board design, but after discussion it appears it was ultimately determined to not be a great solution & Leon was asked to pull the 2nd solution from his website. I had wondered why I never saw that fix before until stumbling across the PDF below. Anyway I do think people should have an idea of possibly problems using a board like this as a long-term fix.. if it works for you great, but at least know that there could be issues if relying on this setup.

PDF for 2nd Leon solution:
http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/howto/cms/media/pages/pdfs/kompendium/spezielle/Fehler_WPC_Leon_2.pdf

Some links here on discussion & 2nd Leon solution here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D77389%26highlight%3Dquick%2Bdirty&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php%253Ft%253D77389%2526highlight%253Dquick%252Bdirty%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D900

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/howto/cms/pages/kompendium/spezielle-probleme/reset-quick-fix.php&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.flippermarkt.de/community/howto/cms/pages/kompendium/spezielle-probleme/reset-quick-fix.php%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D900

IMO I think this type of board is better used as a "diagnostic tool" than a fix or long-term solution. I'm not sure if my knocker partially firing on shut-down is any indication of an issue with this type of setup. I'll have to do more testing to determine that.. but I'm definitely interested in hearing if anyone else that has the WPC Reset Fix board installed has experienced any coils partially firing during powering the machine on or off. Just curious.

#206 5 years ago

^^^ Nope. Zero partial firing coils

#207 5 years ago

I would not put it in a game unless it is reseting. Even then I would try to figure out what the actual problem is and pull the board out for a time I need it again. I have one that I bought, but I fixed the game in the two days it took to get here so I did not install it. If you do take the easy way out and install it permanently, I would also install the 12v regulator.

#208 5 years ago

Just ordered 2 myself.

#209 5 years ago

Just received my board today and popped it into my STTNG which has been resetting lately with the use of both flippers. I powered up the machine and immediately tested it out cold. NO reset issues at all. I do notice a GI blink during the use of both flippers, but no reset! Just want to send you a big thanks for offering this board. I'll have time one day to track down the source; but until then, I'll keep playing.

#210 5 years ago

I haven't had the coils partially firing but I did have a problem where the right flipper would launch the ball into play and the left flipper would not allow me to move through the start of ball menu to select faster. Removed the board and no problem went away.

#211 5 years ago

Got mine a few days ago and CFTBL is back! Still need to find the problem. I have a cap that is pretty domed, after going thru the wiki list, I think this is it. Until then it's game on! Great product!

#212 5 years ago

Thanks for posting this, AceBathound - it reminds me somewhat of my first prototype from November 2013. My first daughterbaord used a 7805 transistor and I quickly discovered it would need a heat sink. I had this first prototype in my booth at Allentown but not too many people got to see it because I was a "one man show" the whole weekend. Although my first daughterboard eliminated those "cut trace" and "drill hole" steps that cannot be undone from the solution you found, it shared the same heat problems that solution experienced because of the linear regulator taking 12 volts all the way down to 5 volts. The design I've offered for sale solved the heat issue by using a switching regulator to eliminate the heat burn off. I also did the analysis of the 12 volt line and load to ensure it could deliver the needed power within component specs... and for those so inclined (and with soldering skills), I offered a power-saving solution for the 12 volt line that counterbalanced the loading from the MPU.

Those pesky resets long pre-date my daughterboard and there have been many creative solutions prior to my work... the resistor hack (to which I offered a way to accomplish without cutting board traces), extra coil windings, PC power supplies plugged into the service plug, soldering wires to pins, ... the list goes on with 20+ years of creativity. Others may come after me - if so I hope I've set the bar high for simplicity and thoroughness.

I've been on vacation for a couple of days and waited till I got home so I could include a picture of my first prototype... I hope it garners a smile or two out there!

prototype

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#213 5 years ago

I have one of these in my Addams that was resetting even after the power driver was rebuilt by Coin-Op. I didn't read about the 12v reg, so just ordered 2 more with the 12v as it looks like I need to install that also since the machine is on 9-10 hours a day..

#214 5 years ago

There's no doubt that this type of mod can resolve many reset issues, the switching regulator reduces heat and is more efficient, load of the 5v/12v supplies is balanced better. It looks like great detail went into testing all of that and it works as it should stopping resets on these machines. But what is the impact of having the watchdog on the WPC MPU monitoring a totally separate power supply? Blanking is based on this alternate power supply & the blanking signal is fed to other boards in the machine. Without the mod, if the 5v linear supply is out of tolerance, coils/lamps/etc wouldn't be allowed to activate. But with this mod, blanking is based off of the alternate supply.. so the other boards get the "everything's A-OK" blanking signal.. but they are being powered off of a possibly failing 5v linear supply. Maintenance of the linear 5v supply is recommended in the product info, how many people are doing that? Probably not very many. Instead they see this mod can fix their resets and otherwise save $100-200 on a service call and they buy it. If resets go away, problem solved..close up the backbox and play pinball.

The question remains, is it really a good idea to recommend this type of board as anything but a diagnostic / troubleshooting tool – or a temporary quick-fix in a pinch? I think this is where the discussion in the forum post I linked had gone & ultimately why Leon's 2nd fix was pulled from his website. It was the holy grail of WPC reset fixes, but could possibly cause issues as the 5v linear regulator degraded and MPU was otherwise sending an “A-OK” blanking signal to the other boards in the machine. The problem is putting the board out there in any form, people will use it to solve all problems and not do the necessary maintenance on the 5v linear supply -- and when things go south, what happens? That may be the scary part of having this as a product that people are relying upon.

It seems like there should also be separate monitoring of the machine generated 5v circuit on this mod & complete shut-down of the alternate switching regulator circuit (or otherwise proper signaling to the MPUs watchdog) if the linear 5v supply is determined out of tolerance. That would keep the blanking working as it should and this could then be a plug-in-and-leave-in mod without worries down the road of what happens as the linear 5v supply gets worse.

Just some thoughts based on the discussion I had seen and my own interpretation. I'd love to know if this is all something not to be concerned about based on the WPC design though.

#215 5 years ago

Can any body tell me if you got Confirmation after ordering the Daughter Board When it was shipped out .?

#216 5 years ago
Quoted from Diller:

Can any body tell me if you got Confirmation after ordering the Daughter Board When it was shipped out .?

I ordered mine four days ago, and it arrived today. I do not believe that there was a shipping confirmation. It just showed up.

#217 5 years ago

Awesome... Thanks I'm at 4 also... Even Though I think I found my Problem was the Slam Tilt Switch On the Coin Door Was WAY too sensitive.. Don't need it for Home Use So I Disarmed it and all has been well for the last 60 games or so...

#218 5 years ago
Quoted from Diller:

Can any body tell me if you got Confirmation after ordering the Daughter Board When it was shipped out .?

For domestic orders, yes you normally do. Wednesday last week through Tuesday this week was an exception because I was vacationing in a remote part of South Dakota (Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Badlands NP). I brought some daughterboards and shipping supplies but did not have access to a printer. I hand-wrote addresses on the envelopes and mailed from Custer, SD at the clerk's counter. A couple also shipped from Lyons, CO.

When I use paypal to send they automatically transmit tracking info to the buyer. When you go to a post office counter the tracking number is not automatically associated with the order and I didn't have reliable enough Internet connectivity to punch in the tracking numbers for what I shipped. Luckily I have a receipt with a tracking number for the package I sent to LA. I'll PM that number to you.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#219 5 years ago
Quoted from rkahr:

For domestic orders, yes you normally do. Wednesday last week through Tuesday this week was an exception because I was vacationing in a remote part of South Dakota (Rushmore, Crazy Horse, Badlands NP). I brought some daughterboards and shipping supplies but did not have access to a printer. I hand-wrote addresses on the envelopes and mailed from Custer, SD at the clerk's counter. A couple also shipped from Lyons, CO.

Wow ... mailing them on your vacation. Now that's what I call customer service!

#220 5 years ago

Rakhr.. I got it and thanks.. I Always like new things to try. And so for it's doing it's thing.. One strange side effect though. Rudy Is Talking More. Like on A Ramp Shot, Used to be I would get One "Zoom" Out of him every 15 or so, Now it's every time. And a Few Other Speech Things Similar to that...Go Figure...

#221 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Now that's what I call customer service!

Thanks... funny though because that's not what my wife called our daily stop at the post office!

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#222 5 years ago
Quoted from Diller:

One strange side effect though. Rudy Is Talking More. Like on A Ramp Shot, Used to be I would get One "Zoom" Out of him every 15 or so, Now it's every time. And a Few Other Speech Things Similar to that...Go Figure...

I noticed a strange sound thing as well with my TZ. During attract mode, the game played it's usual music, and then the last note sort of hung there forever. I don't recall that ever happening prior to installing the daughterboard. I turned off all attract mode sounds, so hopefully it won't be an issue going forward. I haven't noticed any anomalies yet while actually playing the game.

#223 5 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

It seems like there should also be separate monitoring of the machine generated 5v circuit on this mod

Yup - this was brought up in the CreditDotPinball article in April ( http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/26/tech-wpc-resets-and-the-wpc-mpu-daughterboard/ ) and I took that concern to heart. Today I announced the availability of the Pro Daughterboard that includes monitoring of the PDB 5 volt supply.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/kahrus-announces-pro-daughterboard-with-monitoring-functionality#post-1851636

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#224 5 years ago

How useful "monitoring" is when the unit is mounted inside the backbox, which is normally not opened unless there's a problem? The suggestion to shut down the daughterboard 5V output to the CPU board when the power driver board's 5V output rises or drops significantly seems more robust.

#225 5 years ago
Quoted from jadziedzic:

How useful "monitoring" is when the unit is mounted inside the backbox, which is normally not opened unless there's a problem?

Yup - that's why I answer the question "Do you need Classic or Pro?" on my website with this way: "Should you buy the Classic or the Pro version? The simplest way to decide is to determine whether you would ever open your backbox to read the indicator LEDs on the daughterboard." And you'll continue to see both versions available because that answer will undoubtedly be "no" for some.

Quoted from jadziedzic:

The suggestion to shut down the daughterboard 5V output to the CPU board when the power driver board's 5V output rises or drops significantly seems more robust.

Not in my view - the whole point of the Pro Daughterboard is to indicate without shutting down the game. WPC already has a solution that shuts down the game...

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#226 5 years ago
Quoted from jadziedzic:

How useful "monitoring" is when the unit is mounted inside the backbox, which is normally not opened unless there's a problem? The suggestion to shut down the daughterboard 5V output to the CPU board when the power driver board's 5V output rises or drops significantly seems more robust.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts. Various people have commented on this thread about how this adapter is intended to be used versus how it's actually going to be used. We know how this adapter is being used by a majority of the 800+ that have been sold. Plug it in and forget about it. You can't control that from happening other than having a fail-safe built in that would monitor and shut down the alternate regulator or pass on the no-go signal if the linear 5v is found very out of tolerance. So by offering this mod without a fail-safe and for people to be using it as the only method of fixing resets, you open yourself to a good amount of liability IMO. Comments of people using this on-location at a pizza shop for instance -- the machine is on 8-10hrs a day or more, no one is going to be checking in the backbox because everything seems to be functioning as it should – until the linear 5v gets too bad for the other boards in the machine to operate properly. So what is the worst-case scenario in the WPC architecture for the other boards to operate off of an unstable 5v with the MPU thinking everything is okay? What damage [if any] could possibly occur as the linear 5v supply goes downhill? I don't know, I'm not an engineer by profession.. that's why I asked if there's someone else more familiar with the WPC architecture that could answer.

In terms of an improved version of this mod, an audible alarm would be slightly better than led indicators and I'd imagine easily triggered from the same setup you're using to drive the led. A nagging sound coming from the machine once it's triggered would be hard to ignore – and then there's no need to open the backbox unless you hear it. Still I think shutting itself down would be most appropriate if there's any chance it could cause damage to anything as the linear 5v supply fails.

To me this is still one of those “you can offer it, but should you” type of things. Even if you offered it ONLY as a diagnostic tool, people would still use it as a permanent solution once they see that their reset issues are fixed. It's unfortunate but it would happen. The only way to control how it gets used is to either not offer it as product in the first place or have the fail-safes built into it. It really sucks as you want to create these products to help people, but also have to be aware of what you're opening yourself up to should something go wrong.

#227 5 years ago
Quoted from rkahr:

Not in my view - the whole point of the Pro Daughterboard is to indicate without shutting down the game. WPC already has a solution that shuts down the game...

I can see that viewpoint, but the daughterboard could have more lenient monitoring of the linear 5v supply and not affect the end goal to eliminate the much pickier MPU watchdog monitoring going on. At least in this way if the 5v linear supply got very bad, there would be a proper fail-safe. I may have to try playing around with such a circuit myself -- could be a fun project.

Anyway.. best of luck with the new PRO board! I do think it's great to have a solution like this out there so people have it as a way to aid in diagnosing reset issues. The led indicator is definitely a step in the right direction!

#228 5 years ago

I got mine and will try one this weekend perhaps
Thanks Chad

#229 5 years ago

Hey rob. Is it possible to make one of these for modern stern machines? Eg tspp

#230 5 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

I can see that viewpoint, but the daughterboard could have more lenient monitoring of the linear 5v supply and not affect the end goal to eliminate the much pickier MPU watchdog monitoring going on. At least in this way if the 5v linear supply got very bad, there would be a proper fail-safe. I may have to try playing around with such a circuit myself -- could be a fun project.
Anyway.. best of luck with the new PRO board! I do think it's great to have a solution like this out there so people have it as a way to aid in diagnosing reset issues. The led indicator is definitely a step in the right direction!

I thought about that and could imagine to make it like in the attached schematic:

// Error: Image 278917 not found //

Daughterboard schematics (2).JPG
#231 5 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

in the attached schematic:

You have to start with user needs; not drawing circuits. There are two classes of users - commercial users and home users. There are also technicians who could be employed by a commercial user or a home user (and could themselves be home users as well). Do any of those users want to watch a circuit board in real time to determine whether an under voltage occurs? Do any of those users want a board which will shut down (aka reset) the machine when an under voltage occurs?

The voltage lines drift around over time because of changing enviromentals (i.e., features activated in a game, air conditioners kicking on, etc.). The schematic presented doesn't latch any of the indicators so there would be no "memory" of the "yellow" condition occurring unless someone was watching in real time. The buzzer is connected to the same leg as a shutdown so you'll get a quick chirp from it as the machine resets. The reset will be noticed; I don't see how the chirp will matter.

Plug my pro board in, play a game...play for an hour... or a day... and then open the back box and see if the indicator turned red. That works on location, in tournaments, at parties, when needing to decompress in front of a machine after your boss yells at you for something stupid. Plug in a build-out of that schematic and you'll get a mid-game reset just like without the board installed. Sounds like the Zune of daughterboards.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#232 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I noticed a strange sound thing as well with my TZ. During attract mode, the game played it's usual music, and then the last note sort of hung there forever. I don't recall that ever happening prior to installing the daughterboard. I turned off all attract mode sounds, so hopefully it won't be an issue going forward. I haven't noticed any anomalies yet while actually playing the game.

FWIW, I don't have Rob's board in my TZ (Great product btw Rob!) but I had that same thing happen once. I had hit the flipper button while that attract music was going and the horn honked (flipper button) and held the one long note from the attract song. Maybe a bug? I started a game and it went away but stayed with that high pitched tone for 30 seconds. Who knows how long it would've gone for.

#233 5 years ago
Quoted from dmacy:

FWIW, I don't have Rob's board in my TZ (Great product btw Rob!) but I had that same thing happen once. I had hit the flipper button while that attract music was going and the horn honked (flipper button) and held the one long note from the attract song. Maybe a bug? I started a game and it went away but stayed with that high pitched tone for 30 seconds. Who knows how long it would've gone for.

It's very possible that it had nothing to do with the daughterboard. If so, it was quite a coincidence that it happened for the first time within 10 minutes of installing it.

#234 5 years ago

My tz would reset if both flippers were hit at once during about the first 30 seconds of the machine being turned on. No big deal as I could just not hit both or wait 30 seconds. Decided to go with this board and no issues anymore. I'm no expert but I'm guessing I have a thermal intermittent chip. I got my board from John in Vancouver since I'm in Canada. Great to deal with and fast shipping
Thanks Rob

#235 5 years ago

The root of some people experiencing problems likely rests in determining where the 5v issue is. If the drop lies in the connection between the driver and CPU (most common and easily rectified), then I would not expect much issue. If it lies elsewhere in the driver, and after a while a larger drop occurs, one that normally is never seen as any machine would start resetting by now, I think unknown issues could occur.

#236 5 years ago

I started a new thread "Should the kahr.us daughter boards be a staple in WPC’s?":

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-the-kahrus-daughter-boards-be-a-staple-in-wpc%e2%80%99s

I didn't want to derail this one, but think it's a good question, one I discussed with Rob prior to posting.

#237 5 years ago

200+ Games in on mine with out the first Hiccup....I see it this way.. We All know that the power Board When New Was at it's Limit...Hello WPC95... Now that the WPC89 is 24 Years Old They Just need a Little Help. And this is Just What the Daughter Board Does.. I see where a few have a lot of,, if and's and but's, about it. But A Mousetrap Is still a Mousetrap, What I mean is remember when it used to be a small piece of wood with a heavy duty spring that would take it's head off. Next time at Lowe's, see what they got to offer. Good Grief....

#238 5 years ago

All,

I added some Williams sound board stuff to my website (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/volume-control-switching-regulator-for-wms-system-3-7-sound-kahrus-circuits); please let me know if my simplistic web skills have made the site hard to navigate for Daughterboards. I hope that's not the case, but all I have so far is my own opinion...

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#239 5 years ago
Quoted from Fuse:

My tz would reset if both flippers were hit at once during about the first 30 seconds of the machine being turned on. No big deal as I could just not hit both or wait 30 seconds. Decided to go with this board and no issues anymore. I'm no expert but I'm guessing I have a thermal intermittent chip.

It's probably your Thermistor--if so you can buy one here:

http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=457&zenid=9fec2f8c37d2c04af6eb02d4f37cf8c7

Test yours by doing a bypass explained here:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Failed_Thermistor

#240 5 years ago

I have a low 5v I'm dealing with now which I believe is the regulator, connectors replaced and no drop there, bridges and caps already done a couple years ago, I believe since this started a couple weeks ago it rests in the regulator, so I've ordered the new designed ones that Rob noted in another thread.

The reason I am posting is because I too have experienced a strange thing while finally testing this board. At one point hitting the left ramp caused the diverter to pull back, and drop the ball down the right habitrail, as if for the super skill shot, but it dropped into the auto plunger lane, as the lower diverter did not activate (as it was not time for this to happen), and it sat in the auto shooter lane, and didn’t shoot out. This has never happened before, and happened in the first few games I played with the daughter board. I believe it shot out shortly after, and no other issues, but just odd. I’ve played my TZ to death and never had this react before unless it was for the super skill, and again, this drops into the manual shooter lane always.

Just thought I would report too, as there appear to be small switch things going one with it’s use.

#241 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

I believe it shot out shortly after, and no other issues, but just odd... ... as there appear to be small switch things going one with it’s use.

There's still no magic in the daughterbaord; it is deriving a fresh 5 volt line exclusively for the MPU board from the 12 volt line (which stems from the 18 volt line). In WPC, switch rows are sensed using LM339's biased by the 12 volt line (yes, the same 12 volt line). As the 12 volt line drifts around (which it will in operating in a real-world environment), the sensing will continue to work - there should be quite a wide range where this is true, but at some point the sensing breaks down (guessing in the 7 volt range). Again, the real-world environment is dynamic, so even if your 12 volt line isn't hovering low (I.e., reading extremely low on a voltmeter when the game is idle), a quick collapse and recovery of the 12 volt line could reveal itself as a switch mis-read.

Not surprising the ball eventually kicked out as the software probably went into ball locate mode where it cycles solenoids to try to release a trapped ball after sensing a pause in the activity.

And that's just one possibility, but given you've got more than a few games on the machine and only saw this once after installing the daughterboard, it seems reasonable seek paths where the two could be linked... and that's the path I could envision. Mechanical switch issues, corrosion and other such "what if's" or coincidences really aren't interesting or helpful to this thread. Also, I don't think it's an incompatibility between the specific title and the daughterboard because multiple others have it installed in TZ with positive results. And if it is a slightly weak 18/12 derivation in your machine you may or may not see recurrences depending how often the supply hiccups and what is happening in the game at hiccup.

In any case, thanks for reporting because it keeps us thinking about both the goodness the daughterboard brings and the limits of what it can resolve. Quoting myself again, we still need to maintain our power supplies...

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#242 5 years ago

It wasn't like a failing switch issue, the ball went up the left ramp, triggered the switch and opened the diverter, again, as it should for the super skill shot, but didn't activate the other diverter in the shooter lanes, as this wasn't technically the time.

So it wasn’t like a opto going in and out, as the switch is a micro, and the diverter opened once triggered by a micro switch, that had to be physically closed, and did it fast as normally done on the SS shot. Seemed more like a logic hiccup, which never happens otherwise. Anyway, I thought I would report, given other people have noticed similar strange things.

Maybe this is the product of playing a game that has a low enough 5v that it should be resetting anyway, and these little anomalies are being seen for the first time. I’ll look for other issues prior to fixing it for good this weekend when I have time, and report back.

#243 5 years ago

All,

I have begun shipping the "single board" solution for the Classic daughterboard. This integrates the switching regulator directly onto the same PCB that has the male and female connectors. This new version is a little bit more compact than the previous version. Unlike most products that get upgraded (e.g., iPhone), no change in pricing.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#244 5 years ago

Pinsiders outside the USA,

Both the classic and pro versions of my daughterboard are now slightly smaller, single-PCB solutions. This change reduced the shipping weight enough that I can include four ezSBC 12 volt regulator replacements in the international four-packs for no extra postage. Soooo, if you want 4 daughterboards AND 4 regulators, add both to your Paypal cart before checking out. The regulators are $7 each ($28 for four); same as in the USA. You don't have to buy the regulators but I thought it would be a nice option since 12% of USA sales include the regulator. I don't sell the regulators without the daughterboards; if you only want the regulators visit my friend Daniel's site at ezSBC.com.

Check it out at my website (http://www.kahr.us).

If you are not in one of the listed locations where I ship directly for international but are on Pinside, PM me - I can make exceptions to the list for Pinsiders.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

1 week later
#245 5 years ago

Anyone else having problems using these in WPC-S machines? I bought one for TZ and it works great so I ordered 3 more for the route and NONE of them works for more than a couple minutes before getting stuck in an endless reset cycle. I have tried 3 different boards in 4 different WPC-S games (Corvette, DH, RS, JM) and even swapped the reset board with the TZ and a RS. The TZ works but the RS still only works for a few min. Of these machines only Corvette and TZ had reset issues originally.

#246 5 years ago

yes, I only have one of the boards and I put it into a WPC-S (JM) and JM froze up after two minutes. Powering off and on showed it to be still froze with the same stuck DMD pattern. Pulled it out and it was back to the normal boot sequence.
I had a bad DMD and high voltage section and wanted to replace it with a 5V DMD that I have, which was working until I hit the frenzy mode and the MPU reset, so I wanted to try this board since I was overloading the 5V line.

#247 5 years ago
Quoted from sk8ball:

NONE of them works for more than a couple minutes before getting stuck in an endless reset cycle.

Quoted from briandols:

I put it into a WPC-S (JM) and JM froze up after two minutes.

It is compatible with WPC-S, but we still need to maintain our power supplies... we no longer need to worry about fractions of a volt coming of the 5 volt line. Both of these sound like supplies sagging as components warm up but I'd like to be sure it isn't your daughterboards reacting negatively to heat.

Here is a no-solder method to temporarily power the daughterboard off the unregulated 12 volt line instead of the regulated 12 volt line. I've been hesitant to share this publicly (see warning below) but it may help more than it hurts. Doing this can help you isolate where you need power supply maintenance. Specifically by moving the daughterboard from the 12 volt regulated supply to the 12 volt unregulated, you are moving the MPU load off the J101 header (J123 in WPC95) and instead deriving power through the J112 header (J127 in WPC95). You are also taking the LM7812 out of the daughterboard power path.

You will need two alligator leads to set this up.
- Turn your game off.
- Connect your daughterboard to the MPU board. Do not connect the wire harness to the other end.
- Connect one alligator lead from the daughterboard's ground input pin to the ground test point on your PDB.
- Connect the second alligator lead from the daughterboard's +12 input pin to the +12 Unregulated test point on your PDB.

Your daughterboard should look like this:Photo Oct 03, 6 00 31 PM.jpg

Once you've double-checked your connections, turn the machine on. The machine can boot and play in this configuration, but this is a temporary setup - alligator leads are not making the same reliable electrical connection a header clip achieves and an alligator clip that slips off a header pin is now randomly swinging a voltage around in your back box... so be careful and only do this temporarily. Keep it running beyond the "couple of minutes" where you were seeing problems.

What did you learn? Well, if there is no reset, in this temporary configuration then your 12 volt regulated supply needs maintenance (J101, the 18 volt supply caps, or the LM7812). If the same symptoms persist, suspect the MPU or the daughterboard... in that case PM me and we'll do a daughterboard swap-out to isolate.

WARNING - DON'T DO THIS WITH OTHER SUPPLIES IN YOUR MACHINE!!! While the daughterboard can take as much as 30 volts input and deliver a stable 5 volt output, the 12 volt pins on the daughterboard are a direct pass-through to the MPU. The switch matrix portion of your MPU likely will not appreciate higher voltages... possibly resulting in burned components. I have experimented with +18 and +20 in my PZ with varying results; +12 Unreg is more interesting than +18 because it moves the load off J101. I risk these experiments because my MPU is pretty much junk anyway (and I have 2 spares); let me burn mine up rather than you burning yours up!

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#248 5 years ago

All,

I will be at the York show Friday and Saturday so orders not in by tomorrow morning will not ship until Monday.

-Rob
-Visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

#249 5 years ago

Wanted to let everyone know daughterboard number 1000 was sold at the York show. I didn't get to play many machines while there but I enjoyed talking with many friendly people.

-Rob
-Visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

2 weeks later
#250 4 years ago

Bump for an excellent product. I'm not even sure I need this, but I picked up a "pro" unit as a great diagnostic tool.

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