I hope one of those are Mine.. Just Placed A Order. Can't Wait to get it..

Are people who have no issues going ahead and using this product. I was just curious. I bought an extra one for my STTNG and was curious if I should just pop that bad boy in there..haha

I bought one for a game I was taking to a show "just in case." Now that my game is home, I still have it in there. If problems pop up in one of my other games, I'll switch or buy another one.

Remember how great sliced bread was when it first came out? Nothing compared to this!

I purchased one of these yesterday for my TZ. Looking forward to installing it.

Anyone have an issue when turning the machine off where the knocker partially fires? I have tried a similar fix (supplying the watchdog IC with a clean 5v) and have my knocker partially fire on a Doctor Who pinball when turning the machine off. Happens maybe half the time.. haven't tested with and without the voltage regulator in there to attribute entirely to the alternate voltage regulator supplying the watchdog, but so far in limited tests I haven't had the knocker fire when the alternate regulator is not in there.

Just for anyone's curiousity, Leon actually had a similar solution about 5 years ago (labeled his 2nd solution to WPC reset fixes). His first was putting a very large capacitor between 5v and GND going to the WPC MPU. The 2nd solution involving a voltage regulator supplying the watchdog monitored voltage with a clean 5v was discussed back in 2009. At the time some of the German pinball members were going to produce a more plug-and-play solution. Someone toward the end of the forum thread linked below had even suggested an in-line plugin solution that sounded like it would connect at the power inputs to the MPU. Ingo had created a board design, but after discussion it appears it was ultimately determined to not be a great solution & Leon was asked to pull the 2nd solution from his website. I had wondered why I never saw that fix before until stumbling across the PDF below. Anyway I do think people should have an idea of possibly problems using a board like this as a long-term fix.. if it works for you great, but at least know that there could be issues if relying on this setup.

PDF for 2nd Leon solution:
http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/howto/cms/media/pages/pdfs/kompendium/spezielle/Fehler_WPC_Leon_2.pdf

Some links here on discussion & 2nd Leon solution here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D77389%26highlight%3Dquick%2Bdirty&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php%253Ft%253D77389%2526highlight%253Dquick%252Bdirty%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D900

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/howto/cms/pages/kompendium/spezielle-probleme/reset-quick-fix.php&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.flippermarkt.de/community/howto/cms/pages/kompendium/spezielle-probleme/reset-quick-fix.php%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D900

IMO I think this type of board is better used as a "diagnostic tool" than a fix or long-term solution. I'm not sure if my knocker partially firing on shut-down is any indication of an issue with this type of setup. I'll have to do more testing to determine that.. but I'm definitely interested in hearing if anyone else that has the WPC Reset Fix board installed has experienced any coils partially firing during powering the machine on or off. Just curious.

^^^ Nope. Zero partial firing coils

I would not put it in a game unless it is reseting. Even then I would try to figure out what the actual problem is and pull the board out for a time I need it again. I have one that I bought, but I fixed the game in the two days it took to get here so I did not install it. If you do take the easy way out and install it permanently, I would also install the 12v regulator.

Just ordered 2 myself.

Just received my board today and popped it into my STTNG which has been resetting lately with the use of both flippers. I powered up the machine and immediately tested it out cold. NO reset issues at all. I do notice a GI blink during the use of both flippers, but no reset! Just want to send you a big thanks for offering this board. I'll have time one day to track down the source; but until then, I'll keep playing.

I haven't had the coils partially firing but I did have a problem where the right flipper would launch the ball into play and the left flipper would not allow me to move through the start of ball menu to select faster. Removed the board and no problem went away.

Got mine a few days ago and CFTBL is back! Still need to find the problem. I have a cap that is pretty domed, after going thru the wiki list, I think this is it. Until then it's game on! Great product!

I have one of these in my Addams that was resetting even after the power driver was rebuilt by Coin-Op. I didn't read about the 12v reg, so just ordered 2 more with the 12v as it looks like I need to install that also since the machine is on 9-10 hours a day..

There's no doubt that this type of mod can resolve many reset issues, the switching regulator reduces heat and is more efficient, load of the 5v/12v supplies is balanced better. It looks like great detail went into testing all of that and it works as it should stopping resets on these machines. But what is the impact of having the watchdog on the WPC MPU monitoring a totally separate power supply? Blanking is based on this alternate power supply & the blanking signal is fed to other boards in the machine. Without the mod, if the 5v linear supply is out of tolerance, coils/lamps/etc wouldn't be allowed to activate. But with this mod, blanking is based off of the alternate supply.. so the other boards get the "everything's A-OK" blanking signal.. but they are being powered off of a possibly failing 5v linear supply. Maintenance of the linear 5v supply is recommended in the product info, how many people are doing that? Probably not very many. Instead they see this mod can fix their resets and otherwise save $100-200 on a service call and they buy it. If resets go away, problem solved..close up the backbox and play pinball.

The question remains, is it really a good idea to recommend this type of board as anything but a diagnostic / troubleshooting tool – or a temporary quick-fix in a pinch? I think this is where the discussion in the forum post I linked had gone & ultimately why Leon's 2nd fix was pulled from his website. It was the holy grail of WPC reset fixes, but could possibly cause issues as the 5v linear regulator degraded and MPU was otherwise sending an “A-OK” blanking signal to the other boards in the machine. The problem is putting the board out there in any form, people will use it to solve all problems and not do the necessary maintenance on the 5v linear supply -- and when things go south, what happens? That may be the scary part of having this as a product that people are relying upon.

It seems like there should also be separate monitoring of the machine generated 5v circuit on this mod & complete shut-down of the alternate switching regulator circuit (or otherwise proper signaling to the MPUs watchdog) if the linear 5v supply is determined out of tolerance. That would keep the blanking working as it should and this could then be a plug-in-and-leave-in mod without worries down the road of what happens as the linear 5v supply gets worse.

Just some thoughts based on the discussion I had seen and my own interpretation. I'd love to know if this is all something not to be concerned about based on the WPC design though.

Can any body tell me if you got Confirmation after ordering the Daughter Board When it was shipped out .?

I ordered mine four days ago, and it arrived today. I do not believe that there was a shipping confirmation. It just showed up.

Awesome... Thanks I'm at 4 also... Even Though I think I found my Problem was the Slam Tilt Switch On the Coin Door Was WAY too sensitive.. Don't need it for Home Use So I Disarmed it and all has been well for the last 60 games or so...

Wow ... mailing them on your vacation. Now that's what I call customer service!

Rakhr.. I got it and thanks.. I Always like new things to try. And so for it's doing it's thing.. One strange side effect though. Rudy Is Talking More. Like on A Ramp Shot, Used to be I would get One "Zoom" Out of him every 15 or so, Now it's every time. And a Few Other Speech Things Similar to that...Go Figure...

I noticed a strange sound thing as well with my TZ. During attract mode, the game played it's usual music, and then the last note sort of hung there forever. I don't recall that ever happening prior to installing the daughterboard. I turned off all attract mode sounds, so hopefully it won't be an issue going forward. I haven't noticed any anomalies yet while actually playing the game.

How useful "monitoring" is when the unit is mounted inside the backbox, which is normally not opened unless there's a problem? The suggestion to shut down the daughterboard 5V output to the CPU board when the power driver board's 5V output rises or drops significantly seems more robust.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts. Various people have commented on this thread about how this adapter is intended to be used versus how it's actually going to be used. We know how this adapter is being used by a majority of the 800+ that have been sold. Plug it in and forget about it. You can't control that from happening other than having a fail-safe built in that would monitor and shut down the alternate regulator or pass on the no-go signal if the linear 5v is found very out of tolerance. So by offering this mod without a fail-safe and for people to be using it as the only method of fixing resets, you open yourself to a good amount of liability IMO. Comments of people using this on-location at a pizza shop for instance -- the machine is on 8-10hrs a day or more, no one is going to be checking in the backbox because everything seems to be functioning as it should – until the linear 5v gets too bad for the other boards in the machine to operate properly. So what is the worst-case scenario in the WPC architecture for the other boards to operate off of an unstable 5v with the MPU thinking everything is okay? What damage [if any] could possibly occur as the linear 5v supply goes downhill? I don't know, I'm not an engineer by profession.. that's why I asked if there's someone else more familiar with the WPC architecture that could answer.

In terms of an improved version of this mod, an audible alarm would be slightly better than led indicators and I'd imagine easily triggered from the same setup you're using to drive the led. A nagging sound coming from the machine once it's triggered would be hard to ignore – and then there's no need to open the backbox unless you hear it. Still I think shutting itself down would be most appropriate if there's any chance it could cause damage to anything as the linear 5v supply fails.

To me this is still one of those “you can offer it, but should you” type of things. Even if you offered it ONLY as a diagnostic tool, people would still use it as a permanent solution once they see that their reset issues are fixed. It's unfortunate but it would happen. The only way to control how it gets used is to either not offer it as product in the first place or have the fail-safes built into it. It really sucks as you want to create these products to help people, but also have to be aware of what you're opening yourself up to should something go wrong.

I can see that viewpoint, but the daughterboard could have more lenient monitoring of the linear 5v supply and not affect the end goal to eliminate the much pickier MPU watchdog monitoring going on. At least in this way if the 5v linear supply got very bad, there would be a proper fail-safe. I may have to try playing around with such a circuit myself -- could be a fun project.

Anyway.. best of luck with the new PRO board! I do think it's great to have a solution like this out there so people have it as a way to aid in diagnosing reset issues. The led indicator is definitely a step in the right direction!

I got mine and will try one this weekend perhaps
Thanks Chad

Hey rob. Is it possible to make one of these for modern stern machines? Eg tspp

I thought about that and could imagine to make it like in the attached schematic:

// Error: Image 278917 not found //

Daughterboard schematics (2).JPG

FWIW, I don't have Rob's board in my TZ (Great product btw Rob!) but I had that same thing happen once. I had hit the flipper button while that attract music was going and the horn honked (flipper button) and held the one long note from the attract song. Maybe a bug? I started a game and it went away but stayed with that high pitched tone for 30 seconds. Who knows how long it would've gone for.

It's very possible that it had nothing to do with the daughterboard. If so, it was quite a coincidence that it happened for the first time within 10 minutes of installing it.

My tz would reset if both flippers were hit at once during about the first 30 seconds of the machine being turned on. No big deal as I could just not hit both or wait 30 seconds. Decided to go with this board and no issues anymore. I'm no expert but I'm guessing I have a thermal intermittent chip. I got my board from John in Vancouver since I'm in Canada. Great to deal with and fast shipping
Thanks Rob

The root of some people experiencing problems likely rests in determining where the 5v issue is. If the drop lies in the connection between the driver and CPU (most common and easily rectified), then I would not expect much issue. If it lies elsewhere in the driver, and after a while a larger drop occurs, one that normally is never seen as any machine would start resetting by now, I think unknown issues could occur.

I started a new thread "Should the kahr.us daughter boards be a staple in WPC’s?":

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-the-kahrus-daughter-boards-be-a-staple-in-wpc%e2%80%99s

I didn't want to derail this one, but think it's a good question, one I discussed with Rob prior to posting.

200+ Games in on mine with out the first Hiccup....I see it this way.. We All know that the power Board When New Was at it's Limit...Hello WPC95... Now that the WPC89 is 24 Years Old They Just need a Little Help. And this is Just What the Daughter Board Does.. I see where a few have a lot of,, if and's and but's, about it. But A Mousetrap Is still a Mousetrap, What I mean is remember when it used to be a small piece of wood with a heavy duty spring that would take it's head off. Next time at Lowe's, see what they got to offer. Good Grief....

It's probably your Thermistor--if so you can buy one here:

http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=457&zenid=9fec2f8c37d2c04af6eb02d4f37cf8c7

Test yours by doing a bypass explained here:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Failed_Thermistor

I have a low 5v I'm dealing with now which I believe is the regulator, connectors replaced and no drop there, bridges and caps already done a couple years ago, I believe since this started a couple weeks ago it rests in the regulator, so I've ordered the new designed ones that Rob noted in another thread.

The reason I am posting is because I too have experienced a strange thing while finally testing this board. At one point hitting the left ramp caused the diverter to pull back, and drop the ball down the right habitrail, as if for the super skill shot, but it dropped into the auto plunger lane, as the lower diverter did not activate (as it was not time for this to happen), and it sat in the auto shooter lane, and didn’t shoot out. This has never happened before, and happened in the first few games I played with the daughter board. I believe it shot out shortly after, and no other issues, but just odd. I’ve played my TZ to death and never had this react before unless it was for the super skill, and again, this drops into the manual shooter lane always.

Just thought I would report too, as there appear to be small switch things going one with it’s use.

It wasn't like a failing switch issue, the ball went up the left ramp, triggered the switch and opened the diverter, again, as it should for the super skill shot, but didn't activate the other diverter in the shooter lanes, as this wasn't technically the time.

So it wasn’t like a opto going in and out, as the switch is a micro, and the diverter opened once triggered by a micro switch, that had to be physically closed, and did it fast as normally done on the SS shot. Seemed more like a logic hiccup, which never happens otherwise. Anyway, I thought I would report, given other people have noticed similar strange things.

Maybe this is the product of playing a game that has a low enough 5v that it should be resetting anyway, and these little anomalies are being seen for the first time. I’ll look for other issues prior to fixing it for good this weekend when I have time, and report back.

Anyone else having problems using these in WPC-S machines? I bought one for TZ and it works great so I ordered 3 more for the route and NONE of them works for more than a couple minutes before getting stuck in an endless reset cycle. I have tried 3 different boards in 4 different WPC-S games (Corvette, DH, RS, JM) and even swapped the reset board with the TZ and a RS. The TZ works but the RS still only works for a few min. Of these machines only Corvette and TZ had reset issues originally.

yes, I only have one of the boards and I put it into a WPC-S (JM) and JM froze up after two minutes. Powering off and on showed it to be still froze with the same stuck DMD pattern. Pulled it out and it was back to the normal boot sequence.
I had a bad DMD and high voltage section and wanted to replace it with a 5V DMD that I have, which was working until I hit the frenzy mode and the MPU reset, so I wanted to try this board since I was overloading the 5V line.

Bump for an excellent product. I'm not even sure I need this, but I picked up a "pro" unit as a great diagnostic tool.