(Topic ID: 110500)

ANNOUNCE: New CPR Playfield Preorder System in Place


By KevinCPR

4 years ago



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  • 240 posts
  • 90 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by dasvis
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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    There are 240 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 4 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Just curious, since I haven't ordered one form you before -
    Are email updates sent out describing the progress? (i.e. "The first CNC cut will be made two weeks from today!")

    I can answer this one. No, you will not get personalized update emails. However, CPR does a great job updating the 'request' (now pre-order) page with details of where that playfield is in the production process. Check it out: http://www.classicplayfields.com/order.html

    #152 4 years ago

    Thanks for the explanation. Seems like this is about the best the system can get.

    Scott

    #153 4 years ago
    Quoted from SunKing:

    I can answer this one. No, you will not get personalized update emails. However, CPR does a great job updating the 'request' (now pre-order) page with details of where that playfield is in the production process. Check it out: http://www.classicplayfields.com/order.html

    Okay, so that page would be kept up with 'current' status. Good - as long as there's somewhere to look up and see status.

    #154 4 years ago

    How do the different quality levels fit in with this new pre-order system? Do pre-orders all get "gold" class quality (meaning there is likely some excess production that will fall into the "silver" or "bronze" bins)? Does this differ if the pre-ordered playfield is sold by a supplier other than CPR (i.e., the Addams Family split into two parts being supplied by CPR and PPS)?

    #155 4 years ago
    Quoted from HighSpeed1:

    Kevin, is CPR running a full plastics set for TAF as well?

    My ears just grew points.

    RM

    1 week later
    #156 4 years ago

    It would be nice if PPS would provide confirmation of Addams repro playfield pre-order commitments to those who placed an order with CPR, but who were shunted over to PPS due to CPR's allocation being filled. Any thoughts on this, Kevin?

    #157 4 years ago
    Quoted from swanng:

    It would be nice if PPS would provide confirmation of Addams repro playfield pre-order commitments to those who placed an order with CPR, but who were shunted over to PPS due to CPR's allocation being filled. Any thoughts on this, Kevin?

    As I read it, if you got an order in before they shut that inbox down, you're confirmed.

    #158 4 years ago
    Quoted from KevinCPR:

    To produce the playfield you signed up for within 12-18 months of the Inbox opening - not 3-4 years anymore.

    This is a big plus for me - I was originally in on the FT ones (main and smaller), but after a couple of years my tastes changed and the machine was 'traded' off for something else. I think if anything, the wait is what caused people to drop off the list.

    All the best with this new system - and I still look forward to 'hopefully' ordering something in the future.

    #159 4 years ago

    Wow...sounds there is a huge amount of interest in the TAF playfields...

    Preorders Full / Closed
    All playfields spoken for
    Waiting list closed too*
    *there are enough waiting list folks now to
    backup a 50% abandonment of preorder
    promises. Which isn't going to happen.
    No sense in false hope.

    If CPR did a second run, it sounds like they could easily sell out (but I'm guessing that probably won't happen due to licensing)

    #160 4 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Wow...sounds there is a huge amount of interest in the TAF playfields...

    If CPR did a second run, it sounds like they could easily sell out (but I'm guessing that probably won't happen due to licensing)

    Why not?
    IPB did several runs
    CPRs limitation is that this run is finishing what IPD started
    The wood and inserts are ready and waiting
    To do more would require them to sourse more inserts, and that requires a donkey trek to the ends of the earth

    #161 4 years ago

    This is just uninformed conjecture, but what if............................the current license(s) only allowed a certain NUMBER of playfields to be reproduced, and this is the last of the playfields remaining under the current license(s)?

    #162 4 years ago

    Theyhave already said there are constraints and the TAF run is for a specific #.

    #163 4 years ago

    I have read through this thread but still have concerns over my situation with TOTAN. I signed up when the window was recently re-opened, so that is considered loosey goosey. It has been recommended to confirm this under the new system but the window for TOTAN is now closed. I went ahead and clicked on the waiting list link to check it out but it resulted in "page not found". I definitely still want one and would feel better if I had a little reassurance that I am still "in".

    #164 4 years ago
    Quoted from Silverballer:

    I have read through this thread but still have concerns over my situation with TOTAN. I signed up when the window was recently re-opened, so that is considered loosey goosey. It has been recommended to confirm this under the new system but the window for TOTAN is now closed. I went ahead and clicked on the waiting list link to check it out but it resulted in "page not found". I definitely still want one and would feel better if I had a little reassurance that I am still "in".

    Read the second to last paragraph in the OP. Contact CPR directly if you're still concerned.

    #165 4 years ago
    Quoted from Silverballer:

    I have read through this thread but still have concerns over my situation with TOTAN. I signed up when the window was recently re-opened, so that is considered loosey goosey. It has been recommended to confirm this under the new system but the window for TOTAN is now closed. I went ahead and clicked on the waiting list link to check it out but it resulted in "page not found". I definitely still want one and would feel better if I had a little reassurance that I am still "in".

    I am in the same situation. When I contacted them they basically said TOTAN will be sold like the previous playfields. No guarantees you'll get one. I hope they do a good job estimating demand and the people who want one get one.

    #166 4 years ago

    I don't mind placing a deposit on something as long as it's not too far in advance.

    #167 4 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    I don't mind placing a deposit on something as long as it's not too far in advance.

    For what this hobby costs, I have no problem putting down 50 or 100 bucks on a 900 dollar playfield even if it takes 2 years to get it, assuming:

    1. My deposit is refundable if they fail to run the playfield at all
    2. I can pull out and get my deposit back if I do so before CNC cutting starts, and the slot goes to someone on the waiting list

    100 bucks in limbo is nothing where we drop hundred just on mods, LEDs, upgraded boards, etc.

    RM

    #168 4 years ago
    Quoted from RussMyers:

    2. I can pull out and get my deposit back if I do so before CNC cutting starts, and the slot goes to someone on the waiting list

    Herein is part of the problem....If you even had the slightest notion of pulling out and getting a refund then you Never should have signed up in the first place!

    So ok, CPR "BUYS" Inserts and Wood 6-11 Months prior to starting the CNC process, for your Playfield that you promised to buy....So if you are allowed to "back-out of the purchase" prior to the CNC Process then CPR is Still stuck with Wood & Inserts for "Your" playfield. Now this doesn't sound that bad if it were only 1 or 2 people backing out, but if it was Policy then there could/would be up to 50% of the people backing out and CPR would be stuck with 50-75-100 Playfields that can't be sold. Understand this: The "Production Process" actually Starts when CPR "Purchases" Wood & Inserts, NOT when the CNC process starts, and Inserts take 6-11 Months to receive once they have been ordered from the supplier.....So technically speaking our policy for Backing-Out should be closed at the time of ordering Inserts & Wood.

    The Playfield Manufacturing process is a Long Time-frame, and in most cases it's 2+ years (due to the Inserts taking so long to receive once the order is placed).....

    Now, here is another issue: In an effort to keep the Playfield Costs down CPR has to purchase Inserts and Wood for 9-12 Different Titles ALL AT THE SAME TIME....With each Playfield taking around 18 Months from start to finish it would be fine if it was only 1 Playfield at a time that was being Pre-Ordered, however, we have to purchase Wood & Inserts for Multiple Titles all together, Yet we can only make 1 Playfield at a time.

    We have to take Pre-Orders for all 12 titles so that we "know" how many Inserts & how much Wood to purchase almost a Year in Advance of the "First Title" going into the CNC process...so that First title gets done within the first 18 months or so, but what about the 7th, 8th, 9th, 12th titles????
    All 12 titles have had the Inserts & Wood PURCHASED Years in Advance, ALL BASED UPON THE PRE-ORDER PROMISES WE RECEIVED 2-3 YEARS PRIOR.....

    My PERSONAL Suggestion ( NOT CPR's Stance ) is this....If the title you are considering signing up for on the Pre-Order is Not something that you KNOW will be in your collection for Many Years to come > then Don't sign up for the Pre-Order....if the game in question is something you plan on Trading, Flipping, or are just not thrilled with > Don't sign up....However, if the game is something you just can't live without, Planning a "keeper" Restoration, etc. then Sign-up for the Playfield.....The days of Flippers buying the Playfields and selling them on eBay 2 weeks after CPR releases the tile are pretty much over.

    Manufacturing Playfields is a HUGE Financial Investment and to get stuck with playfields because some people back out after telling us they "Had to Have One" just simply puts our investment dollars on a shelf for years....Eventually the well will run dry......

    Edit: Sorry for the rant, I swore I was not going to chime into Kevin's posting regarding the new Pre-Order system, but I felt that uninformed people would just keep posting stuff until they had more information regarding the subject.....I've said my peace now so back to simply "lurking" and no more posting for Stu.....

    #169 4 years ago

    Stu, but until the wood is cut, it is just a sheet of wood
    It might be turned into a Bally playfield, it mightbe turned iinto a Williams playfield
    Same with most inserts
    Paragon inserts are the same as Star Trek inserts
    If they are not needed for this project, they can beused for another

    Most businesses have to to plan ahead, get iinventory in.
    And are then subject to the whims of those wonderful people, the customer

    #170 4 years ago

    Another solution to your problem of people backing out would be to just make people who want one pay the full price up front, and charge a "restocking fee" or some such if they pull out (possibly put in a cut off date, since you don't order components for the pf's right away).

    If you only want people who are 100% on the pf and the title, that's how you do it. CPR is past the point of getting their name out and getting their products out (as proof of quality), there is no reason for this method, just let the customers who want the product pay the money for the product. You know you'll make the PF, it's just a matter of when. Now you are saying 12-18 months, so the customer knows they have to wait at least a year for their product. It will make them think it over before just dropping the cash down.

    #171 4 years ago

    While I can appreciate your line of thinking it just doesn't work that way....No 2 playfields have the Same Amount of Inserts as another...Example: Paragon may use 9 - 1" White Flat Bottom Opaque Inserts whereas Star trek my only use 2 of those specific Inserts ( or maybe 14 )...and the same effect for Every Shape & Size & Color ( both Flat Bottom Opaque, Flat bottom Translucent, and Star-bursts )

    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    Paragon inserts are the same as Star Trek inserts

    #172 4 years ago

    Stu, I am not going to argue
    But predicting customer tends is a part of running a business
    We all have to do it, and we will never be 100% successful

    #173 4 years ago
    Quoted from KevinCPR:

    So CPR is going to rescue what was the former "late 2014 IPB run".

    Sweet - now maybe people will calm down after raking PPS and CPR over the coals in the Stu/Artwork thread over fears of PPS is shutting everyone down fud

    #174 4 years ago

    They just updated the page.

    Fish tales mini pf.

    #175 4 years ago
    Quoted from jjoravec:

    Which ones did you order? I just put in a request for Space Invaders and Paragon and got no email reply. If we are committing to a preorder then we should get an email confirmation.

    I have done this as well with pre orders earlier this year with no response back.!

    #176 4 years ago

    Time for Stu to bow out gracefully from this thread....Time to "Drain it".....

    #177 4 years ago

    I find it difficult to believe that it takes a year to make a playfield.

    Is it a volume issue from the insert supplier? What kind of company can't deliver product in less than a year?

    #178 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I find it difficult to believe that it takes a year to make a playfield.
    Is it a volume issue from the insert supplier? What kind of company can't deliver product in less than a year?

    A single playfield, probably not. A batch of a hundred of them? Certainly. Lots of labor and QC involved.

    #179 4 years ago

    WMS used to take a year to go from concept to a game out the door, and Sega/Stern did it in six months. How much of that time was waiting for finished playfields?

    I can see it taking a long time to pound inserts in and beltsand it. I'd love to see a breakdown of the timelines.

    I'm not saying they're wrong, just curious about the process and why it takes that time.

    #180 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I find it difficult to believe that it takes a year to make a playfield.
    Is it a volume issue from the insert supplier? What kind of company can't deliver product in less than a year?

    This has been hashed out many times in earlier threads which you can enjoy at your leisure... but it's a few things

    - Inserts must be bought in volume and have a very very very long lead time.
    - To keep costs down, insert orders for games are combined, so multiple games must be planned before they can be ordered
    - Wood has bulk ordering and lead time issues as well
    - Inking playfields is not a fast thing... and each playfield needs multiple screen passes
    - CPR is small - they don't have the ability to do multiple copies of the same steps concurrently
    - CPR is small and want to remain small

    If CPR were bigger, had more lines, more staff, and could afford a huge inventory overhead to minimize parts leadtime... they could start projects faster. But this isn't churchhill cabinets.

    I don't know what the story is with the world cartel on insert manufacturing or something... but apparently the suppliers don't sit on huge inventories of every variation either.

    #181 4 years ago

    Re time; Kevin has explained about the wood
    The plywood is custom made for CPR
    Who ever makes it cannot just drop eeverything and make what would be, a short run of plywood
    The wood is probablyvthe biggest PITA for Kevin

    #183 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Time to head to China for inserts!

    where do you think they're coming from now?

    Post edited by Aurich: Apparently not China, shows what the F I know!

    #184 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I find it difficult to believe that it takes a year to make a playfield.

    I find it difficult too. It DOESN'T take a year to make a playfield. When have we ever taken a year to make a playfield except year one and two (in 2004 & 2005) ?? It took us a year to make a run of Fathoms, and another year to make a run of Centaurs. With no glasses or plastics those years.

    Year three we made two playfields (Black Knight and Xenon). Plus a handful of plastics and glasses.

    Year four we made five playfields (Eight Ball, Captain Fantastic, EBD, a Centaur re-run, Fathom re-run). By this point, about 8 plastics sets and 3 glasses on top of that.

    And so on.

    At this point we're up to ~7 playfield runs per year. That's a new playfield released about every 2 months. Plus 25+ plastics set runs per year, and 4-5 glasses runs per year.

    2014 was a temporary exception (only 5 playfield runs) because we had such a hard time with being mill-less for wood for a while.

    It takes 3 months to make a playfield run here, from first cut to last clearcoated. As you can see on our site, there are 4-6 playfields in motion at all times. Like a bucket brigade, runs following each other through the stages.

    Maybe you're referring to lag time. From opening of preorder to us actually releasing the playfield.

    Typically it's like this:
    8 months to a year: collect preorders. Gives everybody a beyond fair time to get counted.
    Then, make the run (3 months)

    In those cases, for a decent crowd for a decent title, 1.25 years from announcement to reality.

    Then there are the draggers...
    2-4 years: collect preorders... yes, sometimes it takes that long just to see 60+ names!
    Then, make the run (3 months)

    In those cases, for offbeat "C" and "D" titles, sometimes 4 years from announcement to reality.

    Quoted from Aurich:

    where do you think they're coming from now?

    Chicago. Original tooling. 95% of the time.

    Sometimes we have used inserts from Mirco (Germany) in the past, in a pinch. He had some rare/missing tools redone. With those particular playfields we just got all the common inserts from him at the same time.

    There is zero insert tooling in China.

    KEVIN
    Classic Playfield Reproductions
    http://www.classicplayfields.com

    #185 4 years ago
    Quoted from KevinCPR:

    There is zero insert tooling in China.

    Well I hate to say it, but maybe it's time there is? Or is that just a colossally bad idea? It seems like the inserts are a constant headache, and maybe that would make it worse, I dunno.

    #186 4 years ago
    Quoted from Stu:

    I've said my peace now so back to simply "lurking" and no more posting for Stu.....

    But Stu you always make such perfect sense. You can chime in anytime.

    #187 4 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    Stu, I am not going to argue
    But predicting customer tends is a part of running a business
    We all have to do it, and we will never be 100% successful

    What's the issue here? CPR was using one system to predict customer behavior, and it wasn't producing enough predictability for their needs. So now they're trying what is essentially a "one strike honor system." They trust you to buy if you commit to do so by staying on the list past their cut-off date (doesn't matter if you agree that their cut-off date is the last possible cut-off date, the point is you're making a commitment if you stay on the list past the date they chose to make their business manageable for them). If they blow their deadline, you're released from your commitment. If you break your commitment, you're required to make a (probably too small, IMO) down-payment for any future playfields.

    Seems like a fair and reasonable way of "predicting customer trends" to me, especially in a boutique market like reproduction playfields.

    -5
    #188 4 years ago

    @Foraisu, i have a problem with Kevin coming on to Pinside and complaining his customers are not loyal enough

    II'd love it if my customers were predictable, but the are not. It is part of running a business. If you deal with customers then you have tottake the good with the bad
    Every other business has the same issues
    Kevin needs to deal with it

    #189 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwinn1812:

    They just updated the page.

    Fish Tales mini pf.

    I just went there....says pre-orders are closed.

    I ordered a FT playfield, but if I can't get in on the mini playfield as well, I don't want the FT playfield I ordered.

    #190 4 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    @Foraisu, i have a problem with Kevin coming on to Pinside and complaining his customers are not loyal enough
    II'd love it if my customers were predictable, but the are not. It is part of running a business. If you deal with customers then you have tottake the good with the bad
    Every other business has the same issues
    Kevin needs to deal with it

    He did no such thing (complaining) - they simply stated their reasoning WHY the change and what they hope to achieve from it. The only negativity in the thread I see is coming from you.

    CPR doesn't want to have a inventory and sell through model. They want a built to order model with only small overages. That's their choice - if you don't like it, don't buy from them and buy from the playfield people that stock inventory for you to buy.

    10
    #191 4 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    @Foraisu, i have a problem with Kevin coming on to Pinside and complaining his customers are not loyal enough
    II'd love it if my customers were predictable, but the are not. It is part of running a business. If you deal with customers then you have tottake the good with the bad
    Every other business has the same issues
    Kevin needs to deal with it

    WTF. Dude, people sign up for something, CPR spends countless hours making it happen, and then they shrug and go "eh, I didn't really want it" and Kevin just needs to suck it up? F that noise.

    I think the only problem CPR has it they're being too nice. I'd make people put down deposits and keep them if they walked, it's pretty lame. I get flakes or people changing their mind with my mods too, but it's not the kind of % CPR gets, and really, it's just some prints and someone else always wants them. I don't sweat it. If I had to eat huge costs and store unwanted playfields that people ditched onto me I'd be getting way harsher in my tactics, assuming I didn't just walk away.

    I hope everyone at CPR is seeing some money for all their work, I begrudge them not a dime, but there are easier ways to make a buck. They've saved countless games (including mine!) and as a community we should be supporting everyone who helps us restore and keep the hobby alive, not shrugging and throwing them to the wolves.

    #192 4 years ago

    did this really reopen and is already closed?

    WTF? I have been in on both the main pf and mini beofore but refuse to resign up and commit for the main without a gaurentee for the mini.

    Appears the mini is already closed again (if it did reopen)

    #193 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    did this really reopen and is already closed?

    WTF? I have been in on both the main pf and mini beofore but refuse to resign up and commit for the main without a gaurentee for the mini.

    Appears the mini is already closed again (if it did reopen)

    I'm wondering the same thing.

    I signed up for the FT playfield as soon as CPR "re-opened" the request for it w/ the "new request system" in place.

    I'm only interested in the FT playfield if the boat ramp playfield is available as well. If it's not available, I guess I'll have to back away from my FT playfield request.

    #194 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    did this really reopen and is already closed?
    WTF? I have been in on both the main pf and mini beofore but refuse to resign up and commit for the main without a gaurentee for the mini.
    Appears the mini is already closed again (if it did reopen)

    I think they just put it up to show it is being done soon. I don't think they reopened but I may be wrong.

    #195 4 years ago

    I saw that the mini play field was back up but just for a few days.

    #196 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Well I hate to say it, but maybe it's time there is? Or is that just a colossally bad idea? It seems like the inserts are a constant headache, and maybe that would make it worse, I dunno.

    Having the inserts done on already existing tooling (read: already paid for) at Foremost, is 1000x cheaper than milling all new tooling and then sending it to China.

    #197 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Having the inserts done on already existing tooling (read: already paid for) at Foremost, is 1000x cheaper than milling all new tooling and then sending it to China.

    Makes sense. I guess I just automatically assume anything done in bulk these days is coming from China without even stopping to think about it.

    #198 4 years ago

    China saves you on labor and on hazardous environmental handling.

    But if you need to machine new die pairs for $10,000 to have some inserts made in China rather than Illinois - you'd need to run a whole lot of .02 cent inserts to ever reach the break even point on the dies.

    #199 4 years ago
    Quoted from fiberdude120:

    I saw that the mini play field was back up but just for a few days.

    Was it open to new orders?

    #200 4 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Was it open to new orders?

    I put an order for one a long time ago so I did not pay a whole lot of attention to it. So I can't say one way or another.

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