Announce: CPR BEGINS its NEW BUSINESS MODEL

(Topic ID: 220220)

Announce: CPR BEGINS its NEW BUSINESS MODEL


By KevinCPR

7 months ago



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  • 352 posts
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  • Latest reply 17 days ago by KevinCPR
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    There are 352 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 8.
    #301 7 months ago
    Quoted from lordloss:

    Gorgar is behind another 18 runs of xenon, centaur, fathom, xenon again, and joust.

    Quoted from Travish:

    That's what I'm afraid of.

    my understanding is that joust is a very small run (only enough will be produced for those that commited on CPR's website). any additional requests would be through CPR's digital "one off" suite (much like how mirco produces playfields)

    3 weeks later
    #302 6 months ago

    I have one EATPM original NOS set that should tie someone over till they are remade.

    #303 6 months ago

    Another vote for Quicksilver playfield.

    #304 6 months ago

    Do you think you will have globetrotters playfields ready soon? These were on the pre-order list so are you going to screen them or print them with this new process. Also you have globetrotters plastics, and with playfield, any chance we will get backglasses too? thank you!

    1 week later
    #305 5 months ago

    Kevin, any updates on how the play fields are coming along?? I picked up a Flash Gordon last week that could really use a nice new CPR playfield.......

    #306 5 months ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    I've never seen a full playfield artwork file, and I am not sure if it is even possible to see one because how could it be shared? If it were a bitmap at full size with high resolution like 300dpi, it would be a huge file, at least a few hundred megabytes I would guess. If an entire playfield were completely recreated as vector art, the file size would be much smaller. But that would be a massive undertaking. I'm sure it has been done but I can't imagine how much work that would be. If someone has made one I would love to see what it looks like.
    Here is an example of a single plastic that I did as an experiment. Again this pic of course as a bitmap of the vector art file, but rest assured that this is a full vector file. It is compared to a photo of the plastic and a scan of the graphic. The vector SVG file is only about 25k file size.
    Granted I am far from a pro, but I'm not gonna lie, it was a lot of work just to get that single plastic recreated as all vector art. And this is a fairly simple graphic really. More complex graphics take more time and effort. Just recreating an entire set of plastics would be a pretty hefty job timewise.
    [quoted image]

    I need a complete set of Bally Dixieland plastics. I have an original set, cracks and all. I had them scanned at 600 dpi, I believe, and the result was a set of TIFF files that were about 800 MB each! I have discovered that there are some issues to be resolved. One is that the outline (i.e., just the plastic shape) is not quite right, so what I did was trace the plastics onto paper and then carefully come up with ODG files (i.e., OpenOffice Draw) with rectangle, triangles & circles from which a GIF file can be generated, and then carefully modify that GIF until it gets right; I am just starting that, and it looks to be a long process, although maybe it will quickly get good. The other is that the scan files have, in general, about 7 cartoon colors, but that is only in a logical sense; the actual RGB values for each pixel could be off a little bit, so I am looking into finding a good color quantization app (or roll my own in VC#.NET) that could lock down those colors to a single RGB (the cracks will be able to clean up by then). The next problem after that was finding someone to cut the plastic and then somehow getting the cartoons printed out, but it looks like CPR will be able to do this (whew!)

    #307 5 months ago
    Quoted from swampwiz:

    I need a complete set of Bally Dixieland plastics. I have an original set, cracks and all. I had them scanned at 600 dpi, I believe, and the result was a set of TIFF files that were about 800 MB each! I have discovered that there are some issues to be resolved. One is that the outline (i.e., just the plastic shape) is not quite right, so what I did was trace the plastics onto paper and then carefully come up with ODG files (i.e., OpenOffice Draw) with rectangle, triangles & circles from which a GIF file can be generated, and then carefully modify that GIF until it gets right; I am just starting that, and it looks to be a long process, although maybe it will quickly get good. The other is that the scan files have, in general, about 7 cartoon colors, but that is only in a logical sense; the actual RGB values for each pixel could be off a little bit, so I am looking into finding a good color quantization app (or roll my own in VC#.NET) that could lock down those colors to a single RGB (the cracks will be able to clean up by then). The next problem after that was finding someone to cut the plastic and then somehow getting the cartoons printed out, but it looks like CPR will be able to do this (whew!)

    swampwiz If Cpr passes it won’t be able to get to it for a few months you should contact Pinball Rescue and Shay Arcade Group ss they have added new titles based on customer requests in the past

    #308 5 months ago
    Quoted from AUKraut:

    Kevin, any updates on how the play fields are coming along?? I picked up a Flash Gordon last week that could really use a nice new CPR playfield.......

    I second this request of when are playfields going to start coming out? Need an EBD a soon as they are available.

    #309 5 months ago

    Still a need for the small upper and small lower Elektra playfields.

    #310 5 months ago

    I have a gold CPR EBD if you don't want to wait.

    #311 5 months ago
    Quoted from jj44114:

    I have a gold CPR EBD if you don't want to wait.

    Pm'ed you

    #312 5 months ago

    Wish they'd just sell the Earthshaker backglass separately. Some of us have a nice playfield and would gladly pay for just the glass.??? I don't need / want to bundle.

    #313 5 months ago

    I couldn’t find an answer to this....is there any plan to do Classic Stern parts? I know some plastics are available, but what about playfields or backglass? I could use a Galaxy backglass.

    #314 5 months ago
    Quoted from SR230CC:

    I couldn’t find an answer to this....is there any plan to do Classic Stern parts? I know some plastics are available, but what about playfields or backglass? I could use a Galaxy backglass.

    Cpr announced earlier this year that they will be making Seawitch, Star Gazer and Nine Ball playfields. I have a Galaxy playfield that Id be willing to sell. Meteor has been on CPR’s boutique list for several years now. Greatwichjon is making Seawitch playfields right now and is still taking orders. He will do a small second run of Star Gazer playfields if their is enough interest.

    If you’re looking for other titles pm me and I’ll try to help.

    #315 5 months ago

    Thanks for the reply! I’ll have to email Mayfair and see if they still have backglass. I actually have a Galaxy playfield I have been slowly getting ready to clear coat. I did buy the CPR plastics and they are excellent.

    -2
    #316 5 months ago

    Digital is the future. Purist silk screen lovers will be dinosaurs. Sort of like restoring any old hot rod and asking for hardware store paint like it was in the 1900s, brush painted on, done every year because it flaked off that fast, cause that's the original purest way of things. What's next, keeping your game as an original "survivor", calling all the damage "patina"?

    Any "unique" color limitations will soon be history. Besides that, most can't agree what the original colors of many playfield should be because there's no reliable record, and variances in the original production of said playfield.

    What I'd like to see is digital reproductions of all original art. This should, over time, reduce production costs therefore lowering prices.

    What I'd like to see is someone produce playfields that are cleared to the aftermarket standards of kruzman, which should also be a minimal additional cost because it's all done at the same time. Getting a pf, then shipping it for more clear at 100s over cost of the new playfield as it is, is ridiculous and unnecessary. For an additional 50 to 100 bucks i should get a higher level of clear if i want vs paying that for shipping alone to and from 3rd party.

    Maybe we could see a future of digital printed pfs that could sell cheaper, due to reduced labor costs, say 5 to 600.00, and then you could play the hell out of your games knowing you can buy another playfield years later that wouldn't cost half the price of your game.

    #317 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    Any "unique" color limitations will soon be history. Besides that, most can't agree what the original colors of many playfield should be because there's no reliable record, and variances in the original production of said playfield.

    Actually, now that the original films have been found by PPS, the EXACT Panatone color codes are now known.

    No more guessing, or looking for the least faded sample, we have the codes.

    d47f01a1e935e1c63ea813c72490ae9f4976ff99 (resized).jpg
    #318 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    Digital is the future. Purist silk screen lovers will be dinosaurs. Sort of like restoring any old hot rod and asking for hardware store paint like it was in the 1900s, brush painted on, done every year because it flaked off that fast, cause that's the original purest way of things. What's next, keeping your game as an original "survivor", calling all the damage "patina"?

    Except silkscreening still allows things not possible with digital..

    Quoted from leonml:

    Any "unique" color limitations will soon be history

    Not with the technology being used today...

    Quoted from leonml:

    Besides that, most can't agree what the original colors of many playfield should be because there's no reliable record, and variances in the original production of said playfield

    The original colors are known... it's that there are lots of variations in what was produced.

    Quoted from leonml:

    What I'd like to see is someone produce playfields that are cleared to the aftermarket standards of kruzman, which should also be a minimal additional cost because it's all done at the same time

    Uhmmm.. no. The very reason a kruzman clear job is different... is why its so difficult to do in production. TIME.

    Mirco already addresses the technology side of the equation by clearing in controlled spaces, consistency, etc.

    Digital speeds up the print process and reduces steps. It's not changing the other pieces.

    #319 5 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Except silkscreening still allows things not possible with digital..

    Not with the technology being used today...

    The original colors are known... it's that there are lots of variations in what was produced.

    Uhmmm.. no. The very reason a kruzman clear job is different... is why its so difficult to do in production. TIME.
    Mirco already addresses the technology side of the equation by clearing in controlled spaces, consistency, etc.
    Digital speeds up the print process and reduces steps. It's not changing the other pieces.

    My point is that the technology in digital is very very close to to taking care of the minor color issues. What does it allow over digital? Some colors? Metallic?

    Also, they don't have every produced games original colors, do they? Doubt it. Either way, if they didn't care to follow them having produced variations, then is it all that crucial? In fact so many people like they're variation, many would rather stick with it.

    Please explain, other then hand sanding a playfield and assuring a level clear, which could be done by machine, what other then time is he doing? It's same as car clear. You want a perfect reflection clear, it's a matter of the number of coats and sanding, and there's limits on coats before you introduce other problems. I understand he does corrections, but a perfect digital hd copy, wouldn't require this. In fact, one giant, flat sanding bench would make perfect level finishes. I don't see it at impossible or expensive. In fact, If they put enough coats on and did a standard sand job and sent it, it wouldn't take much to fine sand and wheel buff and polish to a mirror. You can buff the orange peel out of new cars fairly easily. A pf shouldn't be any different.

    #320 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    Please explain, other then hand sanding a playfield and assuring a level clear, which could be done by machine, what other then time is he doing?

    First, you have to let the playfield "dieback" for 6-8 months.

    This allows the normal shrinkage of the wood vs. the plastics and clear to it's "steadystate"

    Here is what you start with after a "Gold" playfield diesback for 8 months:

    IMG_20180727_220333416 (resized).jpg

    It's not a sheet of homogeneous metal, it's a field of different materials, some hydroponic, some not.

    #321 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    My point is that the technology in digital is very very close to to taking care of the minor color issues. What does it allow over digital? Some colors? Metallic?

    Building layers... paints that blend materials like metallics, neons, UV sensitive just to name a few.

    Quoted from leonml:

    Also, they don't have every produced games original colors, do they? Doubt it.

    The point being - digital isn't helping here. This isn't some new place improved by digital.

    Quoted from leonml:

    Please explain, other then hand sanding a playfield and assuring a level clear, which could be done by machine, what other then time is he doing?

    Why don't you ask him? And ask him why he doesn't just use a machine? Do you really think the difference in output is simply because no one has thought about automating it yet?

    As I said before... the biggest issue is TIME... which is the enemy when trying to do things in volume. They already use power tools. The issues revolve around time inbetween steps. It's just not 'I'll throw on 3 coats'. It's the sanding, prep, and curing all in there as well. Robots are not time machines, nor are they really good at variations. Kuzman jobs take months... not something you want in a factory setting.

    #322 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    In fact, one giant, flat sanding bench would make perfect level finishes.

    It really would not work.

    Again, here is another "Gold" quality playfield, and you can see that after a year of dieback, the shooter lane is now ready for sanding back and perfecting:

    IMG_20180727_192832775 (resized).jpg

    It's not like you are just going to put the playfield through a drum sander and get perfection back.

    It's a shipload of very specialized work, that no machine known to man can do.

    #323 5 months ago

    Seems to me part of the issue is the anal demand for perfection. What are you really trying to accomplish with a perfect playfield? If I could still buy original new playfields for $120 I would go that route over these $800 clearcoated masterpieces every day. I want a solid smooth surface that has all the graphics on it for the purpose of playing the game. I know that's not enough for some but I just want to play pinball.

    #324 5 months ago

    Think of an expensive car.

    You get an "orangepeel" factory finish from the robots.

    It's kinda, sorta, OK.

    It's good enough for 95% of new car buyers.

    Now if you are going to turn this into a showcar, you need to have a pro painter shoot extra clear and then block it all out.

    No robot can do that.

    #325 5 months ago
    Quoted from 64bsstp:

    Seems to me part of the issue is the anal demand for perfection. What are you really trying to accomplish with a perfect playfield? If I could still buy original new playfields for $120 I would go that route over these $800 clearcoated masterpieces every day. I want a solid smooth surface that has all the graphics on it for the purpose of playing the game. I know that's not enough for some but I just want to play pinball.

    Amen brother! Last time I checked, these things are toys/games that are meant to be played, not museum pieces. But everyone seems to have a different opinion. I just want a playfield where the ball rolls relatively true. I don't need to spend $1500 on a playfield. I don't understand the logic of buying a CPR playfield and then sending it out to someone else to perfect the clear coat. Once I get it, I want to do the swap, drop it into my game and start having fun!

    The Deadpool that we had access to at our tournament over the weekend had ball marks all over the playfield within a day. $10K game that looks worse than my CPR Firepower after 2 years of use! Ouch!

    #326 5 months ago
    Quoted from 64bsstp:

    Seems to me part of the issue is the anal demand for perfection. What are you really trying to accomplish with a perfect playfield? If I could still buy original new playfields for $120 I would go that route over these $800 clearcoated masterpieces every day. I want a solid smooth surface that has all the graphics on it for the purpose of playing the game. I know that's not enough for some but I just want to play pinball.

    And that's what people like Mirco offer today..

    This tangent was started because someone did want the anal perfect clearcoat (kuzman) and thought it should just happen because of volume increases...

    #327 5 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Think of an expensive car.
    You get an "orangepeel" factory finish from the robots.
    It's kinda, sorta, OK.
    It's good enough for 95% of new car buyers.
    Now if you are going to turn this into a showcar, you need to have a pro painter shoot extra clear and then block it all out.
    No robot can do that.

    Cars not flat though. So extra clear and sanding could be done quite easily by machine. I just think no playfield company wants to do it. I'd order and pay and wait for extra clear, cure and sand time.

    #328 5 months ago
    Quoted from 64bsstp:

    Seems to me part of the issue is the anal demand for perfection. What are you really trying to accomplish with a perfect playfield? If I could still buy original new playfields for $120 I would go that route over these $800 clearcoated masterpieces every day. I want a solid smooth surface that has all the graphics on it for the purpose of playing the game. I know that's not enough for some but I just want to play pinball.

    Yes, but that cheap a pf would mean a playfield would be trash in a couple years five or take, of playing and most don't want to rebuild that often. With a more durable pf with clear, perhaps you'd get 4,6, maybe 8 years out of it, and you break that down it's as cheap as swapping out throw away playfields.
    I guess you could mylar the cheaper ones with no clear but they don't look as nice and you could get air bubbles.

    #329 5 months ago
    Quoted from dzorbas:

    The Deadpool that we had access to at our tournament over the weekend had ball marks all over the playfield within a day.

    Excellent!

    That's how the wood fibers get compressed to their final flatness.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check

    #330 5 months ago

    That's hilarious....

    15
    #331 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    Cars not flat though.

    Neither are playfields

    Quoted from leonml:

    So extra clear and sanding could be done quite easily by machine.

    Show me what machine can easily do that?

    Quoted from leonml:

    I just think no playfield company wants to do it.

    Of course they don't.

    Normal playfield finishes are fine for 95% of the buyers.

    That crazy 5% of buyers that worries about mirror finishes or dimples - no one wants to deal with those idiots.

    #332 5 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Excellent!
    That's how the wood fibers get compressed to their final flatness.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check

    So if we all know this is going to happen why do we get all worked up about "perfect" playfields? We are willing to pay a boat load of money for a smooth-as-glass playfield knowing that there's nothing that will stop dimpling other than never playing the game?

    Doesn't make any sense to me...

    #333 5 months ago
    Quoted from dzorbas:

    Doesn't make any sense to me...

    My #1 thought all day when ready Pinside.

    #334 5 months ago
    Quoted from dzorbas:

    So if we all know this is going to happen why do we get all worked up about "perfect" playfields? We are willing to pay a boat load of money for a smooth-as-glass playfield knowing that there's nothing that will stop dimpling other than never playing the game?
    Doesn't make any sense to me...

    If you re do a used playfeild this doesn't happen as the fibers are already compressed.
    Plus older games had way less airballs so less dimples.

    #335 5 months ago
    Quoted from leonml:

    Yes, but that cheap a pf would mean a playfield would be trash in a couple years five or take, of playing and most don't want to rebuild that often. With a more durable pf with clear, perhaps you'd get 4,6, maybe 8 years out of it, and you break that down it's as cheap as swapping out throw away playfields.
    I guess you could mylar the cheaper ones with no clear but they don't look as nice and you could get air bubbles.

    How long? Playfields started getting cleared in the early 90's and a lot of them still look and play really nicely today. I don't want to spend insane amounts of money on a playfield. I just want replacements to be available when it does come time to replace it, or you find a game that never was waxed or the balls changed. My biggest concern is when that time comes for modern Sterns. They keep a stock of some, but once those are gone, that seems to be it. Same thing with game specific toys and whatnot. It's a long ways out, but I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that Stern playfields have a future reproduction possibility.

    #336 5 months ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    My biggest concern is when that time comes for modern Sterns. They keep a stock of some, but once those are gone, that seems to be it. Same thing with game specific toys and whatnot. It's a long ways out, but I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that Stern playfields have a future reproduction possibility.

    Stern could go out of business tomorrow, so no one can guarantee you any replacement parts.

    Keep your games waxed, replace your balls often, Mylar and Cliffy heavy wear spots - that's all we can do.

    3 months later
    #337 74 days ago

    When can we expect to be able to order past playfields with your new equipment? kevincpr

    #338 74 days ago
    Quoted from Muskie82:

    When can we expect to be able to order past playfields with your new equipment? kevincpr

    Also wondering the same. I'd be in on a Flash Gordon.

    #339 74 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Also wondering the same. I'd be in on a Flash Gordon.

    Are the hot pink and neon green printable colors? I thought there was some issue with that.

    #340 74 days ago
    Quoted from radium:

    Are the hot pink and neon green printable colors? I thought there was some issue with that.

    Neither are really extreme... I bet they can print something pretty close. The pink isn’t really neon... and the green they might do something more muted.

    But yes, there are limits to what they can print.

    #341 74 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Also wondering the same. I'd be in on a Flash Gordon.

    sorry brother, but I dont see the print on demand happening for some pfs (that likely need screening to do them right)

    #342 74 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    sorry brother, but I dont see the print on demand happening for some pfs (that likely need screening to do them right)

    If that's the case, it would be nice to see a list that is in consideration. It seems like they're using it to print plastic and backglasses. It would be nice to hear why pfs haven't been started yet? In either case, its this or hardtop. If FG is a pf that wont ever be print on demand, then hardtop or NOS will be my only options.

    #343 74 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    If that's the case, it would be nice to see a list that is in consideration. It seems like they're using it to print plastic and backglasses. It would be nice to hear why pfs haven't been started yet? In either case, its this or hardtop. If FG is a pf that wont ever be print on demand, then hardtop or NOS will be my only options.

    Reach out to Mike S and see if he would sell you the pf he pulled from his game. Probably pretty rough, but may be restorable by Neo or Ron. The benefit of an original is that you have all the right hole and dimple placement.

    I think print on demand pf are still quite a ways out since it still takes quite a bit to even get to the stage of printing. I also think anything that has super bright colors or difficult layering will need screen printing to stay true to original?

    #344 74 days ago

    They've already acknowledged their first run screen print PFs will have colors or features they may not reproduce on a direct print PF... but that was not going to stop them from doing direct print PFs for follow-up runs. Basically they would have two versions of the PF... first runs and later/on-demand runs that could differ depending on the product.

    1 month later
    #345 37 days ago

    Approaching 7 months of the original post. I don't see any info about this on their website. Any updates appreciated.
    ps - Need a Skylab pf !

    2 weeks later
    #346 18 days ago

    I was wondering if you can do Bobby orr powerplay backglass. I could use 3.

    #347 18 days ago
    Quoted from dabomb1:

    I was wondering if you can do Bobby orr powerplay backglass. I could use 3.

    Only three, lol

    #348 18 days ago
    Quoted from dabomb1:

    I was wondering if you can do Bobby orr powerplay backglass. I could use 3.

    http://www.pinball-shop.de/product_info.php?m=shop&p_id=1058&language=en&mcID=7

    Nice looking example but overseas!

    #349 17 days ago
    Quoted from dabomb1:

    I was wondering if you can do Bobby orr powerplay backglass. I could use 3.

    We can, but we need a donor of a near-minty specimen, or NOS never-used specimen to master new artwork from.

    That goes for any backglass y'all want to see. Otherwise, it's just the occasional glass our Art Director chooses to source, by his choice.

    EDIT: By donor, I mean "loan to us, we send it back - with a reward" ... not donor as in "donate it, never get i back"

    #350 17 days ago

    Kevin

    How close are you to printing one off playfields in the digital suite? Ones that have already been run

    Thanks

    Andy

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