If anyone is looking for a Wizard! to stick these fine CPR products on I know one will be for sale at PAGG by a fellow Pinsider (not mine).

Is there a gallery for that backglass?

Will any vendors have Wizard! backglasses available for pick up at PAGG?

PAGG is in 9 days (the 17th-19th) FYI.

payment sent - wow WW pf, Wizard bg, Taxi next - I need to find another job...

Stu,

Any chance we will see EATPM translites soon? I'm in need of a new one...

You can still find EATPM in the wild - I bought one last year and one of my friends bought another at Allentown for a lot less than I paid...

_{Post edited by BumperMcBaulhogh : trying to keep the hobby positive}

_{Post edited by BumperMcBaulhogh : trying to keep the hobby positive}

Yup, they look a little different. So ... don't buy it?

I never noticed the snake in the backglass until now! I have played it many times and never noticed.

Neither have I now you've mentioned it.

CPR is doing GREAT work for items that for a long time have been extremely hard (not to mention expensive) to find in good shape.

As far as I am concerned, if the color is a little off, so be it. Even back in the day when games were built you would see games with different shades of the same color from time to time.

If you do not like it, don't buy it. If you think you can do better, then volunteer with CPR to repro something.

I don't frequent forums in the hobby due to time constraints, but this thread was brought to my attention. Normally Stu is the forum traveller on our behalf, but this thread actually drove me to join PinSide in order to post a reply.

These benign new-release announcement posts that sometimes quickly lead to "Gotcha" threads simply astound me. We spend all the time we do in order to bring a reproduction to the hobby, with all the checks and balances in place, and from time to time, within hours, somebody seems to always appear with their 5 minutes spent bringing us their "IMHO" on cross-comparisons to "all over the internet" originals.

I always wonder - why do some people seem to pop up to immediately perform this Where's Waldo function? Not emailing ME or Stu or Mike, but making it a public post to all, in the actual Announcement thread just to dig it home, and then (IMHO) tuning back in later to see what drama or debate you instilled...what reactions you got... it can be the only motivator I can think of. Right down to Photoshop work and photo expose's to drive the point home. That takes work, and a vested interest.

So let me get my 2 cents in. Stu has nothing to do with the darker tone of "Love", as you call her. It was MY call. I mixed the ink personally. It was intentionally a light chocolatey brown, about 2 Pantone steps deeper than original tone you see on the 35 year old glasses today. It was my judgment call to finally make her the black woman she was supposed to be. I found the faded tones of caucasian vs. black skin on current glasses to have very little contrast. It's also the spot color of Roger Daltrey's hair (which is supposed to be brown - not tan/blonde). All the photos on our site are consistent with this, from the Store to the Gallery. The "update" thumbnail was generated by Stu many many months ago, and has nothing to do with the final color mix of the 12 spot colors I mixed for this glass last week.

"Love" on the glass is derivative of the character of the Acid Queen in the movie Tommy. Played by Tina Turner. Tina Turner is black. Now she's black on our glass. It was my decision. I don't trust the washed-out "olive" tone on current glasses. As we always say, we do NOT make reproductions look 30+ years old. We want people to have tonal facelifts for their machines, not blah tones aged from the 1970's. Now she's a hot chocolate mama. Stu was blunt, yes. The only thing we can say to those who don't LIKE she's a chocolate mama, is "don't buy it". Really, what else can we do? One of the twelve spot colors isn't to somebody's liking. All that person has to do is move on and ignore the glass exists.

This philosophy has been up on our site for a very long time. Be sure to check out:
http://www.classicplayfields.com/chronicles.html and pay very close attention to "Case #5"

We've been doing this 9 years, and color battles have always been around (from day one, actually). I've attached a Fathom playfield photo set, showing the original battle (2004) where the first playfield of all, was nitpicked as "not being the correct colors". Meanwhile, everybody is sitting with super-greened playfields, wondering why the 2004 repro is so "off"... not knowing the repro inks were mixed to the Pantone colors noted on the actual Bally negatives. 30 years of color shifting (so slow nobody could notice) and voila - color arguments. Huge differences between original and repro. Then came the Fathom re-run in 2009. This time, *I* was the silkscreener, and *I* mixed the inks. I discovered that the 2004 silkscreener must have been slightly color blind, because my colors mixed Pantone-book-swatch-perfect-match to the numbers on the negatives. Thus you see the 2009 re-run appearance. Even more gorgeous. But again, the color arguments raged in 2009, with guys laying them next to their originals, taking side-by-side photos (sigh) and again we had to explain these concepts. The bottom line is - look at the photo I attached... in hindsight, which color mix do you prefer (ie. want to buy over the other two). The choice is clear to me. 1981 is green shit, 2004 was great, 2009 was awesome.

"IMHO" is simply that. Just be aware that another person's "HO" may differ, maybe even in vast majority. My "MO" sure did - just look at the glasses. I made them that way. It's a free speech forum, and if one must get baggy on something we release, I suggest starting a new topic/thread and becoming an OP on said baggery. Take responsibility, put your opinion out there, in your name. Popping into an announcement thread is just too easy. (IMHO)

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

fathomcomparisons.jpg

Hey Guys...Ty is one of the good guys here. You may not believe it but he is very well known as that here in SoCal. He owns a Wizard and was just pointing it out a color change that now has been explained and thank you Kevin for that.

I have also worked with Stu directly and I too was surprised by the "don't buy it" comment. A shorter version of your explanation would probably have ended it right there.

And that is IMHO.

Joe

Kevin, this was never intended as a bag on CPR or your products. I like what you guys do and you are truly an asset to the hobby. I found this more of a "Revisionist" take on the backglass than a "Reproduction" which is why I brought it up. We are talking about changing a character's race from the original - not Fathom water or Pinbot blue. (I never read anywhere that "Love" is the Acid Queen, this is news to me - so thanks for that tidbit.) I respect your opinion/decisions and wouldn't have said anything if this was brought up anywhere with this release announcement. Because if she was originally intended to be the Acid Queen, I would see this as an improvement!

I know your post isn't about me personally as it is for all of the posts like these that you have had to deal with over the past nine years. I can unnderstand your frustration.

All that said - I guess, with me, it is personal, because it was Stu's shortness that made me post the 2nd time. He could have just said "We are going in a different direction with that character." But instead, as usual, he is quick to be snide with things he doesn't agree with on a consistent basis. (If it has anything to do with him or not.) You have no further to look for a drama creator than on your own team.

Yes, this is on me and I will take responsibility and retract my previous two posts - because I expected this from him!

(I deleted my posts as best I could)

Ty

P.S. The fact that he is your "forum traveller on your behalf" is not a smart business move. IMHO.

Thanks for that, Joe! But who is gonna vouch for you?!?

I'm sure Ty is a great guy. We just don't like our announcement threads taken in new direction by "color analyzatists" . Ty is of course entitled to his opinion, and to post it. Criticism and feedback if we have or are screwing something up is very important. We just hope in the future that guys can start NEW threads and the OP is the analysis... then let the thread flow where it may.

In this case, we announce a glass becomes available, so Wizard folks are aware. If they go "yay" and come into the thread happy to know they can finally get a new glass to replace their shedding one where the bulbs are showing...suddenly further down are posts that stop them cold. Now there is F.U.D. and they too start looking/pondering/considering the skin tone of the Acid Queen. Something most wouldn't have even considered to be a showstopper - now might. Because they read it's a showstopper in the mind of one of the good guys.

Radio silence or censorship isn't the goal here. It's more where to post a color analysis, if one must question it publicly (ie. before approaching us for an explanation in email).

My other point is we (I) too have eyes, and we (I) too see she is brown. Thus I can assure everybody now, again, 99.9% of the time it is intentional. There is really no such thing as an accidental color. Colors are mixed and pre-pulled onto swatches hours or days before ever being poured into the press. Over and over, until I get the color I want. Presenting an opinion that a mistake or screwup in a color was made is almost always going to be just that - a differing opinion from mine, the one who mixed the ink. It's been going on for what feels like centuries, to me. All the way back to playfield One. That is why the "look guys... CPR's (insert color here) is wrong... in what universe is this even close..." posts still happening in 2013 (see Fathom story above) just grinds our gears a little. Probably as much as my color decisions grind some peoples' gears.

Thanks for the insight, Joe

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

My Mom!

Your welcome and I understand. Both Ty and I work in the Television Industry and we both fully understand what critics can do to a product. Keep up the good work and I personally love my 2004 Fathom Playfield. It looks great in my fully restored machine!

Ty,

Just read your post after my reply to Joe went up. I totally get what you mean. I always have to understand that I'm trodding on holy historical ground sometimes, and these things mean a lot to people. For me, I'm just trying to make something a little better. Sometimes I take liberties, sometimes I hang back a bit. Depends on audience, project, and significance I guess. The EM guys are different from the Alphanumeric guys, different from the DMD guys. Some stuff you can alter a bit, some stuff is strictly biblical. It's a tightrope walk.

It's all good.

Yes, Stu and I have talked many times about his postings, and he is steadfastly going to remain his own individual as far as the forums go. I've been told, and that's that. He distinctly (and always was) a 2-legged pinhead before CPR came along. Thus he does (and will) post as "Stu" the pinhead. Yes, he later became an invaluable art contributor to CPR, and even later to the point of taking over the entire art side of CPR. In that capacity he is Stu CPR Art Team Director, and will sig his posts as such. He refuses to give up his individuality in the hobby, though. Thus we've had "muzzle" talks (remember those, Stu? haha) where I got spanked. He was right - his contribution to the Art Team and his "business" announcements, team management, and scan-hunting, etc, are all separate from his ability to function as his own person in the hobby. Yes, I realize he is the same person. But he's also the owner of Genysis too, a graphics house in Phoenix. He's also a cornerstone of APPL in Arizona. Stu wears many hats in his life. You know what hat he is wearing by how he signs his posts, as far as the forums go. When it comes down to the thick of things as an official CPR statement (ie. other than art or Art Team affairs), it's always going to come from Mike P. or I.

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

Kevin,

Thank you for the level headed response.

FWIW, I always assumed that "love" was a black woman...

The only thing I can add to this discussion is my perspective as a CPR artist.

One of the things I appreciate most being a CPR artist is that Kevin (and Mike too) goes way out of his way to accommodate the repro artist's vision regarding key decisions on how the artwork gets produced. This extends most importantly to colors. I had countless discussions with Kevin regarding the colors for the Flash Gordon playfield. I was intensely focused on trying to get the color pallet as close to original as possible. In all things art, there are subjective issues. As Kevin said it is hard to match colors on 30 year old fields! I personally in my projects strive to stay authentic to the original artists whose art I am reproducing.

We debated reds on the phone for quite literally hours (red is not a simple color). I had spent many hours at my original field with swatch book in hand. I was insistent on matching the translucency of blue on that field (which is used to create additional colors through layering). Kevin went so far as to have many of the key colors lab mixed for the field so that they would be scientifically matched to the Pantone swatches I had selected as best matches. He put a lot of the control in my hands as the repro artist, and I greatly appreciate that.

The end result pleased me to no end. I really wanted a Flash Gordon field that I thought was a faithful reproduction, and Kevin (and Mike) helped me realize it just as I had planned. I expect the same will happen again with my current Medusa project, and on projects to come beyond that.

The whole CPR team really wants to get it right. Stu has been a godsend coordinating the Artist's efforts and tirelessly cranking out prodigious amounts of repro art. Kevin and Mike have been wizards making it all a reality. Without their dedication, none of this would be possible.

-Jim Heck
Proud CPR Artist Team Member

Kevin/CPR:

Thanks for all that you do for this hobby. I understand both points of view and appreciate the time you took to give all of us insight on how decisions are made and WHY.

From my point of view I would still have a blown out Flash Gordon, Xenon, etc if it weren't for the team's efforts.

I have a "1981 shit green TM" Fathom While for an original it is very nice, I would LOVE to have a re-re-run of that 2009 version someday!!

Jim,

You did a hell of a job on that FG field. I can still remember the feeling of awe when I opened it for the first time. Truly stunning, thank you!

I think the 2009 run looks way better than the original. I would buy the 2009.

Thank you for the accolades. It really means a lot to me!

Now back to this morning's task of drawing the colored stripes in Medusa's hair...

-Jim

Since you mentioned Fathom, can you please do another run of the playfields?

I'm thrilled to see the amount of products CPR is releasing, and *IMHO* think they do an amazing job. I've got a CPR Firepower playfield that is not only beautiful (and perfect), but plays amazingly fast. MANY THANKS to the folks at CPR for helping some old machines see new life.

I like the new Wizard glass better, but I think black girls are beautiful. I also like the overall effect on the balance of the art. However the problem here is not that artistic liberties are taken (they SHOULD be). It's the fact that buyers DO need to carefully compare their glass to the pictures on CPR's site before they decide whether to buy it. Some of us are not buying repro glasses because ours are blown out. We may decide that it's worth buying a new glass just because the reds are faded in an otherwise nice original.

Bottom line, a little disclosure goes a long way. If CPR pointed out these differences (and yes, sometimes flaws) up front, nobody could play "gotcha". And you're right - most people will buy the glass anyway, because theirs is blown-out. Nice original 35-year-old back glasses are rare!

To CPR's great credit, they take excellent pictures of what they sell. And if you're unhappy with something, they'll refund your money (in my experience). I'm a long-time CPR supporter, and I'll continue to buy their stuff as long as I can stand to do playfield swaps. So take this as (unsolicited) advice from a friend!

EDIT: I agree that everyone who thinks making repros is easy or deterministic should read this:

http://www.classicplayfields.com/chronicles.html