Elkhart, IN
id would be cool if you could incorporate Peter Schillings "Major Tom" song before the multiball
(Topic ID: 123559)
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Pinbot
Williams, 1986
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2 months later
Hi guys. Sorry it's been a couple months since I've posted. I am alive and well, still working on my Pinbot 2.0 project. Actually a while back I took a break from coding rules/modes and teamed up with a buddy to author software to create, edit, and export lampshow files. These shows can be used in (among other things) P-ROC projects. It was a very fun project and quite rewarding. This ended up being absolutely huge for Pinbot 2.0. I was able to create lampshow files like the type you use for attract mode and on jackpot-type shots in only minutes. Here is a video of the tool (which we're calling QDLS or "Quick and Dirty Lampshow Tool.") in action.
The basic idea of this tool is that you take a bit of time to drag the dots over an image of a playfield and from there you can move frame-by-frame and light the lights you want lit in that frame. The end result is a text file that indicates on or off for that lamp.
What I mostly show in the video is a handful of built-in effects that I've coded which represent a majority of what you see in run-of-the-mill attract sequences. I normally at least try to start with a pre-fab effect and tweak from there. They are never quite 100% perfect after running the effects, but it sure gets you close.
This is an attract mode that I made in under an hour. It's a combination of 5 different animations that I made using the tool. One cool thing about the tool is that for every animation you export, you actually get 4 animations because you get the reverse, the inverse, and the reverse of the inverse of that show. Basically if you take the time to fill the slate from right to left, you get emptying the slate for free. You also get filling the slate from left to right for free and emptying that slate as well.
As cool as this is, I'm *really* excited for the next post! I've just coded my most complex mode to-date. 4 ball multiball anyone?
Dan
Quoted from Curbfeeler:But I've got really neat animated gifs of all the planets from NASA, and NASA is awesome...
So are you able to put gifs into the display? Like when a certain mode starts, can you have it play a video?
Quoted from Curbfeeler:The basic idea of this tool is that you take a bit of time to drag the dots over an image of a playfield and from there you can move frame-by-frame and light the lights you want lit in that frame. The end result is a text file that indicates on or off for that lamp.
Very cool. What's the output look like? Wondering if it's MPF compatible.
Quoted from pinlink:So are you able to put gifs into the display? Like when a certain mode starts, can you have it play a video?
Yes, he can.
Pinbot 2.0 runs PyProcGameHD which is the same framework that Buffy runs on (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-pinball/page/7#post-2749034).
Dan was unbelievably helpful tweaking this tool in the run up to expo, and even made lampshows for Buffy for us! This tool is huge time saver.
I'm very excited to see the next round of Pinbot videos --he's running some "bleeding edge" features that I haven't even checked into GitHub yet! I can't wait to see what he's doing with them.
Pinbot 2.0 in the P-ROC booth in 2016!!
Quoted from Aurich:Very cool. What's the output look like? Wondering if it's MPF compatible.
Here is the format it generated for the leftward sweeping rectangle in that video.
I'm pretty sure it will work with MPF, but only with a P-ROC. -Edited
Dan
Quoted from Curbfeeler:I'm pretty sure it will work with MPF, but only with a P-ROC.
Then it doesn't really work with MPF, since the entire point is to be hardware agnostic. Still, very cool little tool.
Quoted from Aurich:Then it doesn't really work with MPF, since the entire point is to be hardware agnostic. Still, very cool little tool.
Sorry, that was actually a joke, though. I don't know why it would not work with any system. The output is just plain text.
So with your game is running on skleletongame. Is there an advantage or difference with mpf? I'm slowly getting my base set up and started with mpf. But now that I read about skeleton it seems pretty cool.
Why did you choose skeleton?
Quoted from agodfrey:Why did you choose skeleton?
I have to refrain from commenting on MPF at all, because I really don't know enough about it to do so. Aside from the fact that I like both Gabe and Brian and can tell from their posts that they are awesome guys, anything I'd say would be under informed. However, I can certainly tell you why I love SkeletonGame--no problem there. Before MOcean (Michael) wrote SkeletonGame, I must have had 5 different occasions where I false started on a P-ROC game. Star Wars was my most memorable and goes down as one of my most embarrassing pinball failures. After I whiffed on Star Wars I even gave up and sold all my P-ROC stuff. Sold it too cheap -- had to buy it all new...
One of the reasons I had such bad luck before SkeletonGame was that I was asking permission from other P-ROC guys to use their work as my starting point and then going in and hacking away at it in search of a starting point for my project. This didn't work for a number of reasons, which led to a lot of frustration for me. It wasn't anything to do with the guys whose work I was using, but it just wasn't the way to go. Been there, done that...
Then Michael came along and made SkeletonGame. SkeletonGame allowed me to get up and running in just a few hours, using his sample game as my baseline. What before could take 40 hours, now took 2-3 hours tops. I was now starting games, adding players, launching and draining balls, awarding and collecting bonuses, even logging and keeping high scores. Oh plus there was a service menu. For real!!! This was all stuff that I would have had to write line-by-line that I was now getting for free.
Because I was mooching so much functionality for free, my very first lines of code were on my skillshot. I used his example and made my own. Had it up and running very quickly. Next, I tackled a mode (pluto mode). Again, had it running quite quickly. Then the next mode, then the next, etc. It's been like that the whole way. When I've had questions, Michael has been a superstar and been there to help me with every one. But for the most part I've found it very self explanatory and easy to use.
Okay, now an important disclosure. I am a software dev by trade and so I actually prefer to code rather than to configure. While I did not feel like I could possibly find enough free time to code an entire game and framework from scratch, I actually really enjoy coding my Pinbot-specific modes very much.
In closing, if you are interested in coding your own pinball game, you should know that it is a very complex project and will take you a long time. It's super rewarding, which is why we do it, but it's a long term commitment, no question. I say do it anyway! A great experience. You'll meet great people, make great friends. And really, Python is one of the easier languages to learn. A great way to pick up a new skill. Eric didn't know any programming when he started Cactus Canyon Continued. He just had a goal and was determined to be successful and now he is pinball legend.
Buy a P-ROC! Woot!
Hope that is helpful to someone.
Dan
This next post is one I'm very proud of. I've now completed my most complex and time-consuming mode. The Pinbot 2.0 Four-ball MULTIBALL!
Summary of Events
00:00 - 00:12 seconds: My Attract Mode.
00:12 - 00:20 seconds: Simulate Ball One Launching to the Shooter Lane.
00:20 - 00:24 seconds: I hit the Super Skillshot, worth double the highest vortex (200K)
00:32 - 00:42 seconds: I complete the chest mode (pinbot's main objective) to open the visor
00:48 - 00:50 seconds: Lock Ball 1 in the left eye eject.
00:51 - 00:53 seconds: Simulate a second ball launching to the Shooter Lane.
00:58 - 00:59 seconds: Lock 2nd ball in the right eye.
01:02 - 01:03 seconds: Simulate the 3rd ball launching into the Shooter Lane. You have 30 seconds to lock the eject to earn a 4th.
01:05 - 01:06 seconds: Lock 3rd ball in the single eject.
01:08 - 01:14 seconds: Simulate 4th ball in the Shooter Lane and into playfield. Lock 3rd ball in the single eject. Simulate ejecting the other 3 for the 4 ball multiball frenzy!!!!
01:19 - 01:20 seconds: I hit the right advance planet standup to ready the Jackpot. This is a timed shot.
01:19 - 01:20 seconds: I hit the right advance planet standup to ready the Jackpot. This is a timed shot.
01:24 - 01:25 seconds: First jackpot made. This is a timed shot but also only valid if there are multiple balls in play.
01:30 - 01:31 seconds: Another jackpot made. I am on fire!
01:34 - 01:41 seconds: I drain 3 balls, ending the multiball event. I'm back to chest mode.
01:46 - 02:00 seconds: I start completing the chest again, to start a second multiball sequence.
02:07 - 02:08 seconds: I lock a ball in the left eye again...
This multiball sequence is very similar in structure to the stock rules except of course it's a 3 or 4 ball multiball. Also the requirement to start the jackpot sequence using the right standup target is not part of the original rules but I think a nice wrinkle because the left ramp is a pretty easy shot in that game.
Dan
I think this framework is for me. I work in video production and graphic design and the idea I have would be pretty video and graphics heavy. JUst dressing up the 'DMD'. Because of that this set up seems to be a lot more friendly (mostly bc it;s designed to work with an lcd)
Plus the build in feature are very attractive. I'm aware it'll take forever which is why i have no delusion I will have a 'game' ready for expo.....maybe expo 2017!!! For now I will watch the masters at work, and slowly start learning. I'll install skeleton when I get home and see where it leads me.
Quoted from Mocean:Yes, he can.
Pinbot 2.0 runs PyProcGameHD which is the same framework that Buffy runs on (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-pinball/page/7#post-2749034).
That's awesome! But those look like custom animations, I guess my question is can you pull clips from a video like the one below, and have them play on the LCD at certain points? Or say a clip from a movie? Thanks!
Quoted from pinlink:That's awesome! But those look like custom animations, I guess my question is can you pull clips from a video like the one below, and have them play on the LCD at certain points? Or say a clip from a movie? Thanks!
» YouTube video
Yes, absolutely! Michael's got gobs of movie clips in his Buffy machine. I am guilty of purposefully holding off on most animations for the time being. I'd like to do that type of stuff as the last step, just having been burnt doing too much of it too early on past projects. I'll post a video soon of walking through the various planet modes, and I do have animated gifs for each spinning planet for that. But I have tested Mp4 clips and they work very well.
Quoted from Curbfeeler:This next post is one I'm very proud of. I've now completed my most complex and time-consuming mode. The Pinbot 2.0 Four-ball MULTIBALL!
Dan, this is coming along great! I love how every time I watch one of your videos, I see you using my gui helper tools to make a really solid workflow, yet I still use the keyboard and blind guesses on the lamps. I'm going to have that space disco song stuck in my head all day long!
I cannot wait to see the videos of this running on the physical machine. I guess you'll need a three camera rig: one for playfield, one for the alpha display, and one for the apron display...
For those who don't know, Dan is an enormous help to the advancement of SkeletonGame --its development originated from listening to complaints of others in the PyProcGame community (as well as my own) in trying to build a full-featured game and an effort to reduce the redundant effort in starting up a second game.
My goal for SkeletonGame is to make it faster/easier for the developer to get to "the hard stuff" because that's where the fun is. I also want to make sure you have a nice set of tools when you have to battle the hard stuff. I'm extracting what I needed to either invent myself or borrow from others for the Buffy pin, and I'm embedding that code (or those concepts) into this framework. SkeletonGame is an extension of PyProcGame, it does not replace it and would not exist without it.
Dan pushes me to improve documentation and to stop and spend the time to explain "how to do X" or "why isn't there a way to do Y?" Dan is an extremely bright, nice, and patient guy. I'm pretty lucky that he wants to use my codebase.
Now that we are past Expo, my priority is to improve the documentation of SkeletonGame and provide some meaningful tutorials... Unless I can talk Dan into doing that for me 
Anyone working on a custom machine really needs to bring their machine to Expo (or some similar event). Watching others play and hopefully enjoy the game is a real rush, and the amount of insight you gain from new players is easily worth the travel expense.
Quoted from Mocean:. SkeletonGame is an extension of PyProcGame, it does not replace it and would not exist without it.
.
To be clear, it is an extension of the HD version of the framework which is what has the color, LCD, movie support and other advanced features not in the original framework -- however the HD framework does NOT support a standard DMD. If you plan to use a standard DMD you need to use the original pyprocgame framework. So when starting a project be sure to install the correct one.
If you are using the MP4 feature there is a requirement for openCV, and not sure if Moceans new one click installer for windows installs that are not.
Oh, the framework will run on windows, Mac and Linux (I use it both Mac and Linux), but install on those is a little different.
Now that expo is over, maybe I'll get back to finishing the sound system upgrades.
Hi guys, good morning. I managed to take a youtube video of my machine in action during multiball, and it's actually not as horrible as it could be. Tripod on a table.... Go me!
What you will see is me loading up a game and with ball-in-hand making the super skill shot (:20). Then I start completing the chest targets, first with the ball and then finishing (1:17) by hand. This opens the visor, and I shoot both eyes (1:38). Then I get a third ball, and it counts down 30 seconds, during which I can earn ball 4 by shooting the left eject (1:42).
This kicks a ball into the shooter, but at this point I didn't want multiball to start yet. I wanted to wait until you put that ball in play, so just hitting any switch on the playfield (1:46) is what releases the other 3 balls for a 4-ball multiball. It's a bit crazy!
I hit the standup target (2:00) to open up the jackpot shot. Then I have to make the ramp for a jackpot. My ramp is wired backward, so I have to manually (2:06 and 2:10) make the switches in reverse order to score two jackpots.
At 2:15 I drain my 3rd ball to demonstrate multiball ending and going back to chest mode. I have a bug in my code where from here on out my visor goes into seek mode. Annoying, but hopefully easy to fix.
I go ahead and drain my last ball at 2:14 to show the end of ball routine. This starts up ball 3, and for the next few seconds I mess around until the ball gets trapped in the eyeball. Whoops, that visor wasn't supposed to be open... I have more work to do, looks like!
Dan
Unknown
Quoted from sven:It looks really promising!
Thanks Steven!
1 week later
Quoted from Curbfeeler:Hi guys, good morning. I managed to take a youtube video of my machine in action during multiball, and it's actually not as horrible as it could be. Tripod on a table.... Go me!
» YouTube video
What you will see is me loading up a game and with ball-in-hand making the super skill shot (:20). Then I start completing the chest targets, first with the ball and then finishing (1:17) by hand. This opens the visor, and I shoot both eyes (1:38). Then I get a third ball, and it counts down 30 seconds, during which I can earn ball 4 by shooting the left eject (1:42).
This kicks a ball into the shooter, but at this point I didn't want multiball to start yet. I wanted to wait until you put that ball in play, so just hitting any switch on the playfield (1:46) is what releases the other 3 balls for a 4-ball multiball. It's a bit crazy!
I hit the standup target (2:00) to open up the jackpot shot. Then I have to make the ramp for a jackpot. My ramp is wired backward, so I have to manually (2:06 and 2:10) make the switches in reverse order to score two jackpots.
At 2:15 I drain my 3rd ball to demonstrate multiball ending and going back to chest mode. I have a bug in my code where from here on out my visor goes into seek mode. Annoying, but hopefully easy to fix.
I go ahead and drain my last ball at 2:14 to show the end of ball routine. This starts up ball 3, and for the next few seconds I mess around until the ball gets trapped in the eyeball. Whoops, that visor wasn't supposed to be open... I have more work to do, looks like!
Dan
Am I glad or not I typed PinBot into the search field this evening... ? This is just pretty darn excellent. I was just about to put my PinBot up for sale this week and then I saw this... Well you can forget it, my PinBot is not going anywhere now. This superseeds a bunch of today's games kicking a great design from 86 another 25-30 years ahead into the same league.. I will stay put and wait for you Dan to finish this and take the chance you hopefully will share this.
Are you considering a Superskill shot as well ?
It could be by, 1 dropping into the middle vortex, 2 hitting a random lit by the machine, chest colour on a 7-8 second timer..
This is just the beginning.. Hell with this technique you could probably make my Police Force a lot deeper and enoyable.
P.m sent
Reg Matt
Hi Matt, thanks for your interest in the project and for the comments in the thread. I'd been hoping some more folks would stumble in. Been quiet over the past few weeks.
So to answer a few of your questions. This is accomplished by taking out the MPU board and putting in a P-ROC instead. P-ROC is a board that is connected via USB to a computer to serve as a drop-in replacement for a pinball MPU. So if you are a coder like me, you can write a ruleset like this one and re-imagine your game. It's a from-scratch thing, though. The old rules do not serve as the starting point.
Now on a System 11 game like Pinbot there is a complication, which is that the System 11 and Dataeast MPUs also contain all the drivers and are essentially a combo board of drivers and logic mixed into one. The reason this is a problem is that after you connect the P-ROC into the machine you still need to be able to drive the coils, etc. This was solved by fellow Pinsider Snux who designed and sells a driver-only board, which i use on Pinbot.
If you are interested in following along from home, so to speak, you're more than welcome to do so. All of my code is open source and freely available. I could show you how to legally get the music yourself. One cool thing about developing a new game like this is that when you just want to throw back and play a good game of Pinbot you can do so via Pinmame. Aside from the fact that the music comes out of your computer, it's actually impossible to tell that you're not playing the original hardware. I still play a lot of old-timey Pinbot, in fact.
I do have a number of hardware mods to my pinbot, and you would have to make these also in order to join me on this journey. For instance you need an LCD screen. I put mine under the apron, but I can help you decide where to put yours. The biggest change, though, is that I modified my game into a 4 ball trough. This was a simple process, but did require a bit of wiring and soldering. I could always write an alternate rules set that was for 2-ball play...
Beyond those really vague descriptions I'd encourage you to check out my P-ROC forum thread. That is where I keep a lot of the nitty-gritty about how to actually do all of this. I keep this Pinside thread as more of a summary when I have something shiny to show off.
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?board=49.0
BTW, you mention about Police Force. I am actually trying to decide what game to do next after Pinbot. It needs to be a game with a nice variety of shots that were never really used effectively in the rules. A game that could have been awesome but just wasn't. IMHO that's the best game to P-ROC. I've got a short list of maybe 5-10 titles I'm considering. Would love more suggestions.
Thanks again,
Dan
This is awesome. Cant believe I didnt see this thread earlier? This will be open to everyone to modify their machines with in the future?
Quoted from nikpinball:This is awesome. Cant believe I didnt see this thread earlier? This will be open to everyone to modify their machines with in the future?
Sure! Not sure if you are familiar with CCC (Cactus Canyon Continued) or BOP 2.0 but they also use a P-ROC. The Big Lebowski uses a P-ROC as well.
I'm getting closer to finishing Pinbot (working on it a little every night) but when it's done I'll be glad to help others who want to follow in my footsteps. I'm using an open source license on my code, but purposefully one that prohibits others using anything of mine to profit.
The one thing I will say is that music is a huge part of this pin, and I made the choice early on to use licensed songs. When the time comes I can show you how to source your own music, but I can't give it to you since I don't own it. I don't see that being a hurdle, though.
Thanks for stopping by. I'll have more info as I get closer. Still have a lot of coding to do!!!
Dan
Snux's Sys 11 driver also works with the FAST WPC controller. I don't know if that's been publicly announced.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Snux's Sys 11 driver also works with the FAST WPC controller. I don't know if that's been publicly announced.
I did not think the FAST WPC controllers were shipping yet. Is there a project using that with the Snux's board? Is there at thread or blog on that? Curious as to what sys11 game is being 'enhanced'. Seems that vintage of games are ripe for improvement, as we have seen with the use of P-roc on bop2.0 and P-roc in combination with Snux's board on earth shaker aftershock and now pinbot 2.0 and I believe a few others.
I'd be curious to see if this Pinbot 2.0 design/code could also be modified to work with a jack*bot, considering it is the identical playfield layout. I believe Epthegeek (and apologize if it was someone else), did some work to support alpha numeric representation on a DMD.
Quoted from rosh:I did not think the FAST WPC controllers were shipping yet. Is there a project using that with the Snux's board?
I can't speak to their shipping status or any projects that use it, I don't have that knowledge.
I followed along with the tests that were performed to make sure it was compatible. It is.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:I can't speak to their shipping status or any projects that use it, I don't have that knowledge.
Well, probably better not to post something about it, when it may not be available, fully implemented and in use, etc. especially in a thread regarding a project that is using a different technology. I'm sure once someone is using it in a creative project like pinbot 2.0 there will be a thread on it that we can all check out.
I apologize to curbfeeler for taking this off topic.
Quoted from rosh:Well, probably better not to post something about it, when it may not be available, fully implemented and in use, etc. especially in a thread regarding a project that is using a different technology. I'm sure once someone is using it in a creative project like pinbot 2.0 there will be a thread on it that we can all check out.
I appreciate your opinion, but disagree.
I don't speak for FAST, I speak for myself. If we need to head to the brawl section, let me know.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Snux's Sys 11 driver also works with the FAST WPC controller. I don't know if that's been publicly announced.
Come on man. Your post has nothing to do with Curbfeeler's awesome project other than to try to drum up business for a competing product. You don't even say anything about his project itself.
What makes your post entirely off topic is that Dan's project is already up and running; he's been working on it for a long while and has been able to do so because the P-ROC not only has already shipped, but it has been shipping for years --Long enough for people to really work on the software to extend functionality (like the gorgeous HD apron display that's supported on the framework now).
I get that you're excited to be in on the ground floor of the FAST/Sys11 party, but this isn't the place.
Bad form, man. Bad form.
Last time I checked this was Pinside, where we share cool things with each other. Like this awesome project, it looks great. I'm pretty sure it's not an ad for P-Roc, where people helpfully sharing something that's OMG FROM ANOTHER BRAND is suddenly taking things off topic.
rosh and Mocean, you're nice guys, and have awesome projects yourself, and submit a ton of work that's helpful to the community, so please don't take this the wrong way, but every time you jump in to rabidly defend P-Roc it's really off putting. I get it, you're friends with Gerry, and want his product to succeed. But you're honestly driving me away from wanting to work with that community that way you keep doing this. People can make up their own minds on what to use after being educated on the options you know.
Curbfeeler this is super cool, and the way you're sharing not just your progress but your code is awesome, keep up the good work.
I'm invested in this project. I've given Dan some custom code and his project runs on PyProcGameHD, which Rosh and I have both worked on.
When I see a new post in this thread I'm excited to see what people think of the project, maybe get some valuable feedback, not a new product announcement that has nothing to do with the thread.
Before you posted, this is where things were: Dan's project is cool. wolfmarsh's post was off topic. Now you've jumped in to defend him, and now we risk drifting father OT.
I'm sorry you feel I'm a zealot or my posts are off putting and pushing you farther from the work.
I'm sending you a PM. I have no interest in further polluting this thread, but I am interested in trying to resolve this.
Quoted from Aurich:Last time I checked this was Pinside, where we share cool things with each other. Like this awesome project, it looks great. I'm pretty sure it's not an ad for P-Roc, where people helpfully sharing something that's OMG FROM ANOTHER BRAND is suddenly taking things off topic.
rosh and Mocean, you're nice guys, and have awesome projects yourself, and submit a ton of work that's helpful to the community, so please don't take this the wrong way, but every time you jump in to rabidly defend P-Roc it's really off putting. I get it, you're friends with Gerry, and want his product to succeed. But you're honestly driving me away from wanting to work with that community that way you keep doing this. People can make up their own minds on what to use after being educated on the options you know.
Curbfeeler this is super cool, and the way you're sharing not just your progress but your code is awesome, keep up the good work.
Quoted from Aurich:but every time you jump in to rabidly defend P-Roc it's really off putting.
Seriously?? someone posts about a FAST product, that is not even available, in a thread regarding a P-roc project, but I'm the bad guy?
Whether intentional or not what wolfmarsh posted was nothing more than an advertisement. I don't think you will find a single FAST project thread where I have tried to turn into a conversation about P-roc. In fact, you will find I have been nothing but supportive in the threads I have posted to, in fact, you will see in the main FAST thread were I complimented Aaron about aspects of his design, as I have done off line as well. I spent a ton of time talking with a bunch of the guys in the FAST booth at expo, answering questions and giving them advice on their projects and at no point did I talk about P-roc with them, other then asking Mark as to why he changed. What I have done on occasion, as I did here, was ask for clarification on FAST products that are being promoted to someone, when that product is not ready for use. I've done the same with MPF, which works with P-roc. I've been up front with both Brian and Aaron about doing that.
Yes I am a friend of Gerry, he created a technology that allowed me to fulfill a life long dream to build a real pinball machine and I am thankful for that, and I try to support him and the homebrew/boutique community so others can do the same. I offer my support to anyone, regardless of the technology they are using.
Happy to take this off line, whether via PM or to the basement or whatever.
Quoted from rosh:I'd be curious to see if this Pinbot 2.0 design/code could also be modified to work with a jack*bot, considering it is the identical playfield layout. I believe Epthegeek (and apologize if it was someone else), did some work to support alpha numeric representation on a DMD.
I am using epthegeek's code for the virtual desktop representation of the digits and have a credit to him in my attract mode. Not sure about the digits to DMD, though. I know it's been done but was thinking it was somebody else who should get that credit. Maybe Snux? MOcean helped get my "real" displays connected and working a while back.
If somebody wanted to make this work on a Jack*bot, I don't think it would be a problem at all, other than none of my rules have anything to do with casino gambling. My guess is the best approach there is to just remove the DMD and put an LCD in its place. There's nothing in those amber displays that's not on the LCD all the time. I just like their retro glow...
I prefer not to comment on the FAST thing here. Aaron and crew seem like nice guys, but I actively choose not to support anything tied to PP$ for a list of reasons too long to go into here. Sorry.
Dan
Let's be friends.
Like Josh said, we got to hangout and talk as indie pinball guys and not FAST/PROC at Expo and I really enjoyed it. For real. I had hoped that my involvement with FAST wouldn't be a wedge between myself as a designer and other designers using other hardware and software. I had chatted with Josh briefly in the past, but I had never talked with Michael before. I got a chance to meet him in person this year and it was really nice to socialize in person and not on a pinball forum.
Community is where it's at. Find people you like and work together. Support/encouragement/accountability/inspiration, that's where it's at. If I ever need a quick pick-me-up I drop into the FAST Slack group and bam, there are all my new friends doing some ultra cool stuff for pinball! One of my favorite things to do these days is introduce new users to the group. I am proud that a) I get to add users to the group! And b) that the group is so welcoming.
Pinball is rad. The friends I have made in pinball are even radder!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
PS: Don't think "radder" is a word, but I am using it!
Quoted from Curbfeeler:I prefer not to comment on the FAST thing here. Aaron and crew seem like nice guys, but I actively choose not to support anything tied to PP$ for a list of reasons too long to go into here. Sorry.
Dan
PPS is not involved with FAST. We have explored ways to enable our hardware to use the WMS licenses in a way that benefits the community. But that's it.
It would be like someone not liking P-ROC because Kevin was using it in Predator or that VonnieD was going to use it in Pinball Gremlins.
Let's get this thread back on track.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Curbfeeler:If somebody wanted to make this work on a Jack*bot, I don't think it would be a problem at all, other than none of my rules have anything to do with casino gambling.
At some point I'll talk to you about trying this out since, at least at the moment, I have a jack*bot. The rules on jack*bot are pretty basic, and it could be cool if you could just choose which of the two games to play, just for the variety of it. Guessing it would be pretty easy to test out, I can pull the CPU and LCD from one of my custom games to try it out. Is your code online, if not, can you send me the yaml, curious to see what it looks like relative to switch naming, and how much it would take to switch it over. Not sure what other issues there will be, since obviously it is a different vintage game.
Quoted from Curbfeeler:I prefer not to comment on the FAST thing here. Aaron and crew seem like nice guys, but I actively choose not to support anything tied to PP$ for a list of reasons too long to go into here. Sorry.
I've taken my discussion to PM too, sorry to clutter your thread. Is PP$ the new M$? 
Can I play too? ®ick. 
Quoted from Aurich:but every time you jump in to rabidly defend P-Roc it's really off putting. I get it, you're friends with Gerry, and want his product to succeed. But you're honestly driving me away from wanting to work with that community that way you keep doing this.
That's rich coming from a Heighway employee and friend of Aaron's at FAST. You do the same thing all over Pinside for your employer and friends. And you're having the same effect of driving some people away. - I tried to tell you this before.
No need to go private. I'm done commenting.
Seriously guys, let's get this FAST/PROC/Who is friends with who stuff out of this thread.
If you have spent more time on pinside today debating stuff (that really doesn't matter a whole lot in the end) than you have either playing pinball or building pinball, shame!
Dan, keep up the great work. Josh & Michael, you too. Aurich, I hope Alien kicks ass and isn't the last thing you do in pinball.
Gerry and Dave and I are here to enable more rad pinball. So let's get this thread back on topic.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
This is so cool, that people are putting new rules (software) and displays (hardware) into old legacy machines. I have always wanted to do a custom one of a kind machine that was a real physical machine and not just a visual pinball table for the computer. Some may remember me from those early days of VP and doing all those toys. Back then I had no budget for real hardware so I had to do everything virtually inside the VP framework. Now mind you, being the first guy to get the saucer shaking and the Martians wiggling on AFM was a labor of love for pinball, and a real ego booster. That so many people have played my code and had the fun of experiencing AFM on their computer in a way that it was meant to be is a reward in itself.
Dan has taken the time (and lots of it if my own experience is any indicator) to right the wrong that Jackbot did to the Pinbot universe. So many people I have talked with over the years thought the casino theme of JB did a disservice to Pinbot and I agree. It's sad that the playfield for JB has the casino cards and other thematic gambling elements on it.
I own a Pinbot myself, also a BOP, a Family Guy and I have built my own full cabinet virtual machine using an old Roller Games cabinet. So I would say I am ready to take on a project similar to this myself, either making my own version of Bride or Pinbot like Dan, or jumping into the deep end of a totally new machine.
My question for Dan is, is it easy to get the hardware working using the p-roc and did you have to scrap all the original boards? Pinbot was kind of special in that it used a cpu/driver board which had 2 processors running it, as well as a sound board which used a third. Did you pitch all boards out to do your conversions? When you use vpinmame to run the original rule set, does it emulate everything? Does the back glass mouth lamps still sync when he talks?
Bublehead aka Dan Roth
Quoted from Bublehead:My question for Dan is, is it easy to get the hardware working using the p-roc and did you have to scrap all the original boards? Pinbot was kind of special in that it used a cpu/driver board which had 2 processors running it, as well as a sound board which used a third. Did you pitch all boards out to do your conversions? When you use vpinmame to run the original rule set, does it emulate everything? Does the back glass mouth lamps still sync when he talks?
Hi Dan, thanks for this nice reply.
Regarding the hardware piece there is much more info in this thread. On Pinside, I try to keep it light reading with lots of pics and videos.
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1438.0
I also attempted a DE Star Wars conversion and there is info from that thread that is more of a step-by-step.
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=705.0
Currently my System11 board is leaning against a work bench. The sound board is in the machine but not connected.
Regarding your question about Pinmame.... There is no difference at all with Williams. You really cannot tell. On my Star Wars you could tell. The video sequences all played at the wrong speed.
Thanks again.
Dan
By the way, I do continue to work on this. I just designed a speaker panel in cad, had a buddy CNC cut it, and installed an awesome set of speakers.
Not sure how I will cover the thing, probably with black cloth to look as stock as possible.
Dan
I love what you are doing... Hopefully when PinBot is completed we can get Police Force going from being a so-so machine to a loaded cop-bad boy game with a ruleset eons deeper than the current... It sure has potential and I have some ideas......
Reg Matt
1 month later
2 months later
I decided recently not to go with a second display and not to put in a display in the speaker panel. I decided instead to cover the hole with a custom cut decal that I made with my Silhouette Cameo. This is probably a temporary version, because I just finished building a CNC router, and I would really like to carve the wording into the wood. Maybe even an inlay....
Just realized I forgot to post this before. This is a sneak preview of my video mode (Earth). There's no music in the video and a few bugs but you get the idea.
Hey guys, I'm honored that my game is the subject of episode 70 of this podcast:
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